Do You Consider Negative Use Of Phrase, That'S So Gay

[Jingthing]

We can have discussions and strongly held opinions about abstract things like this without the need for hard scientific evidence.

Of course you are right. Why confuse you with facts when you have made up your mind already?

Statistics backing up any side don't really exist. You have presented facts? Could have fooled me. This is an opinion matter.

[Jingthing]

Sorry about breaking my own statement and replying to JT again (indirectly) with this post showing what I said.

edit --- BTW I don't particularly care for being called a liar, JT.

Understand. Can you explain the context about this odd claimed phenom of your gay friends saying that's so gay all the time? It's my right not to believe you, but just to humor you, can you explain the context? Assuming you do acknowledge that the general usage is NEGATIVE. As in that's so gay meaning I wouldn't be caught dead wearing that, doing that, etc. because it looks like something GAY people who wear/do, etc.? This claimed in group gay usage, please explain. Negative? Positive? Ironic? Alternate to fabulous? Please explain, I am very curious.

Edited August 16, 2011 by Jingthing

[thaicbr]

i could probably bet that most Mexicans would not think themselves 'a widely hated minority'

[Jingthing]

i could probably bet that most Mexicans would not think themselves 'a widely hated minority'

You clearly didn't read the entire sentence. Mexicans living in an area in the US where they are a minority and regularly hear slurs against them (which I will not repeat) would indeed feel that way. Obviously the geographic context is relevant. But even then, the shabby ways Mexicans are treated in the US is a regular key topic of discussion when Mexican and USA leaders meet.

Edited August 16, 2011 by Jingthing

[jdinasia]

i could probably bet that most Mexicans would not think themselves 'a widely hated minority'

LOL

Thaicbr and tom .... do you hate me because I am gay? or is it some other reason?!?

[Jingthing]

As I don't believe most gay people say "that's so gay" amongst themselves, yet I acknowledge I may be wrong, I have started a poll about it on a new thread. If it turns out gay people really DO commonly use the phrase, I would like to understand the CONTEXT and meaning of how gay people usually use it (because it is hard to fathom gay people would use it as an insult to gay people).

Edited August 16, 2011 by Jingthing

[JUDAS]

We can have discussions and strongly held opinions about abstract things like this without the need for hard scientific evidence. I don't think it's really a big stretch to assert that most members of ANY widely hated group in the context of their dominant culture (examples, gays, Muslims, Jews, gypsies, Mexicans, etc.) generally appreciates being denigrated and insulted, either directly with slur words or with coy trendy phrases such as that's so gay (when clearly used in a very negative context).

Gays are a widely hated group? I think "in general" you are way off the mark. Just because a group of people are in the minority does not automatically mean hate comes into the equation. There may well be a few uneducated fools who will hate any minority and that will probably never change, but it hardly makes the term "hated group" in any way reflective of the view of the vast majority.

The PC world has gone bonkers years ago. Do you find the word "homosexual" offensive?

[thaicbr]

i could probably bet that most Mexicans would not think themselves 'a widely hated minority'

You clearly didn't read the entire sentence. Mexicans living in an area in the US where they are a minority and regularly hear slurs against them (which I will not repeat) would indeed feel that way. Obviously the geographic context is relevant. But even then, the shabby ways Mexicans are treated in the US is a regular key topic of discussion when Mexican and USA leaders meet.

Well seeing as you DID NOT actually say that. I think i can be let off on that one...

So are you telling us that many Americans are a homophobic, racist group of people?

[Jingthing]

We can have discussions and strongly held opinions about abstract things like this without the need for hard scientific evidence. I don't think it's really a big stretch to assert that most members of ANY widely hated group in the context of their dominant culture (examples, gays, Muslims, Jews, gypsies, Mexicans, etc.) generally appreciates being denigrated and insulted, either directly with slur words or with coy trendy phrases such as that's so gay (when clearly used in a very negative context).

Gays are a widely hated group? I think "in general" you are way off the mark. Just because a group of people are in the minority does not automatically mean hate comes into the equation. There may well be a few uneducated fools who will hate any minority and that will probably never change, but it hardly makes the term "hated group" in any way reflective of the view of the vast majority.

The PC world has gone bonkers years ago. Do you find the word "homosexual" offensive?

Widely doesn't mean everyone or even the majority. Of course it is a fact that globally gays are widely hated. It varies country to country. Some countries are much better than others. Obviously, Holland is much more tolerant than Ethiopia, etc. Personally, I don't find homosexual offensive at all. Just kind of fuddy duddy and clinical but its a good word. I also don't favor the word penis but the words for that I prefer I doubt I should post here.

http://www.globalpost.com/dispatch/worldview/091110/opinion-gay-rights-gone-global

Edited August 16, 2011 by Jingthing

[thaicbr]

We can have discussions and strongly held opinions about abstract things like this without the need for hard scientific evidence. I don't think it's really a big stretch to assert that most members of ANY widely hated group in the context of their dominant culture (examples, gays, Muslims, Jews, gypsies, Mexicans, etc.) generally appreciates being denigrated and insulted, either directly with slur words or with coy trendy phrases such as that's so gay (when clearly used in a very negative context).

Gays are a widely hated group? I think "in general" you are way off the mark. Just because a group of people are in the minority does not automatically mean hate comes into the equation. There may well be a few uneducated fools who will hate any minority and that will probably never change, but it hardly makes the term "hated group" in any way reflective of the view of the vast majority.

The PC world has gone bonkers years ago. Do you find the word "homosexual" offensive?

Widely doesn't mean everyone or even the majority. Of course it is a fact that globally gays are widely hated. It varies country to country. Some countries are much better than others. Obviously, Holland is much more tolerant than Ethiopia, etc. Personally, I don't find homosexual offensive at all. Just kind of fuddy duddy and clinical but its a good word. I also don't favor the word penis but the words for that I prefer I doubt I should post here.

Really?. i would have thought that you like penis's

Edit.. i'm interested to learn your pet names for penis's

Edited August 16, 2011 by thaicbr

[Jingthing]

We can have discussions and strongly held opinions about abstract things like this without the need for hard scientific evidence. I don't think it's really a big stretch to assert that most members of ANY widely hated group in the context of their dominant culture (examples, gays, Muslims, Jews, gypsies, Mexicans, etc.) generally appreciates being denigrated and insulted, either directly with slur words or with coy trendy phrases such as that's so gay (when clearly used in a very negative context).

Gays are a widely hated group? I think "in general" you are way off the mark. Just because a group of people are in the minority does not automatically mean hate comes into the equation. There may well be a few uneducated fools who will hate any minority and that will probably never change, but it hardly makes the term "hated group" in any way reflective of the view of the vast majority.

The PC world has gone bonkers years ago. Do you find the word "homosexual" offensive?

Widely doesn't mean everyone or even the majority. Of course it is a fact that globally gays are widely hated. It varies country to country. Some countries are much better than others. Obviously, Holland is much more tolerant than Ethiopia, etc. Personally, I don't find homosexual offensive at all. Just kind of fuddy duddy and clinical but its a good word. I also don't favor the word penis but the words for that I prefer I doubt I should post here.

Really?. i would have thought that you like penis's

Cute. But I said the WORD, not the thing. When I see men in mainstream entertainment use the word, they come across as too well behaved to me. Such a dry clinical word for such a huge part of most every man's universe. I would use that word with a doctor maybe, but out of that context, there are much saucier, or perhaps spiritual in the broader sense, words.

Edited August 16, 2011 by Jingthing

[Jingthing]

BTW, the poll (blush) for GAY PEOPLE ONLY is here

[JUDAS]

We can have discussions and strongly held opinions about abstract things like this without the need for hard scientific evidence. I don't think it's really a big stretch to assert that most members of ANY widely hated group in the context of their dominant culture (examples, gays, Muslims, Jews, gypsies, Mexicans, etc.) generally appreciates being denigrated and insulted, either directly with slur words or with coy trendy phrases such as that's so gay (when clearly used in a very negative context).

Gays are a widely hated group? I think "in general" you are way off the mark. Just because a group of people are in the minority does not automatically mean hate comes into the equation. There may well be a few uneducated fools who will hate any minority and that will probably never change, but it hardly makes the term "hated group" in any way reflective of the view of the vast majority.

The PC world has gone bonkers years ago. Do you find the word "homosexual" offensive?

Widely doesn't mean everyone or even the majority. Of course it is a fact that globally gays are widely hated. It varies country to country. Some countries are much better than others. Obviously, Holland is much more tolerant than Ethiopia, etc. Personally, I don't find homosexual offensive at all. Just kind of fuddy duddy and clinical but its a good word. I also don't favor the word penis but the words for that I prefer I doubt I should post here.

You don't find the word homosexual offensive, though I agree it's somewhat sterile sounding, same as heterosexual. Apparently, the word homosexual is offensive to some gay people and maybe even the word gay is offensive to some homosexuals. PC madness http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2742080/posts and heteros should now be referred to as straight.

[jdinasia]

Gays are a widely hated group? I think "in general" you are way off the mark. Just because a group of people are in the minority does not automatically mean hate comes into the equation. There may well be a few uneducated fools who will hate any minority and that will probably never change, but it hardly makes the term "hated group" in any way reflective of the view of the vast majority.

The PC world has gone bonkers years ago. Do you find the word "homosexual" offensive?

I have never felt "widely hated" for being gay and I lived in a crossroads between communities in Colorado, in that I was a partner in a business with a large biker demographic yet we were still on Cap Hill -- which is considered a "gayish" area. Discriminated against? Sure. Hated? Nope. --- BTW I still count some of the 1%ers I know from those days as life-long friends and I was always openly gay.

I think some people need to feel persecuted for validation. I have certainly never felt "widely hated" for being gay in Thailand and the only ridicule or scorn I have ever felt about being gay here has happened a total of 2 times in 9 years of living here continuously and many visits before that. Once was by a drunk farang in Phuket when I was eating dinner with my BF and he shot his mouth off ... he was asked to leave by the owner (Thai). The other time was in Hua Hin and a Thai couple (about a decade older than me) made some comment I didn't understand at the time about me and my BF. I offered them one of his business cards (he got mad at me for that!) but they had assumed he was a hooker. (I now know exactly what they said and it was way out of line .. at the time I only knew that what they had said had hurt my BF's feelings. Giving them his business card embarrassed them no end ... for which I am very happy

[snarky66]

jd is one of the smartest people I know. Wise. Listen to jd.

[TommyDee]

wow this is such a sad thread.

first, "gay" wasnt a word that was invented to describe homosexuals, it had a meaning prior to that

you rented it for a while and it has stood you in good stead

now it has moved on, to mean yet another "thing"

its the way the yoof of today works. and yet when they use it they do not use it, ( i know this catagorically) as a slur against "gays" they simply use it with the MOST MODERN of its varying definitions.

the fact that you take offence to it would be described as "gay" not a sexual slur but..the modern definition of the word

0-1970.. ( ish) definition// happy, full of life, merry

1970-2000 ish.. homosexual

2000-present day.. stupid, naff ( 1970's equivalent)

[TommyDee]

wow this is such a sad thread.

first, "gay" wasnt a word that was invented to describe homosexuals, it had a meaning prior to that

you rented it for a while and it has stood you in good stead

now it has moved on, to mean yet another "thing"

its the way the yoof of today works. and yet when they use it they do not use it, ( i know this catagorically) as a slur against "gays" they simply use it with the MOST MODERN of its varying definitions.

the fact that you take offence to it would be described as "gay" not a sexual slur but..the modern definition of the word

0-1970.. ( ish) definition// happy, full of life, merry

1970-2000 ish.. homosexual

2000-present day.. stupid, naff ( 1970's equivalent)

pc correctness is going mental. the "black sheep of the family" previously simply meant the odd one out "all the others are white" but some doodoo gooder can nix that as an acceptable expression. the question has to be, were sheep born red instead of white and the odd ones born blue, would being the " blue sheep" be considered racist. the answer of course is no.

Lucky ofr us we live in a less than PC correct world here and we dont have to mind our a,b,c,d,e,f,g,g,h,i,j,l, m,n,o,r.s.t.u.v.w.x.y.z's as well as our "p"s and "q"s (apologies to those into water sports, no offence meant

[Scott]

I am with Jingthing on this one, although I just can't get myself too worked up about it. I've heard it said and it's always been with a negative connotation.

I don't like being called a Yank, especially by non-Americans. I don't call people from the UK Brits, usually, and if I do it is meant as a slur.

[jdinasia]

I am with Jingthing on this one, although I just can't get myself too worked up about it. I've heard it said and it's always been with a negative connotation.

I don't like being called a Yank, especially by non-Americans. I don't call people from the UK Brits, usually, and if I do it is meant as a slur.

You would classify it as "hate speech"?

[sbk]

OK, guess it requires me to step in here. Calling someone a liar is NOT ON. Trolling in the Gay forum is NOT ON.

Its time to calm down and discuss the phrase rationally

[Jingthing]

I apologize if a poster thinks I called him a liar. However, read the thread and you will see I didn't do that. What I actually did was state that I don't believe him about ONE assertion, which is actually just voicing a personal opinion as opposed to calling him a bad name like liar. I hope the difference is understood.

What I did say --

I've thought about this and methinks you are fibbing big time.

Edited August 16, 2011 by Jingthing

[Jingthing]

jd is one of the smartest people I know. Wise. Listen to jd.

I judge on the content of specific assertions, not the "reputation" of poster. I hope that's settled.

[7by7]

A post displaying racist stereotyping has been deleted.

[endure]

So is he 'a happy looking' chappy to have a top box on his bike or not?

Ok ok... I read that topic and thought some PC fellow might get offended... But really is it that bad?

People read what they want to into a phrase or situation..

Does wearing pink make me look like a faggot?

In the UK being brown and covered in gravy makes you look like a faggot

[endure]

Jingthing..

Have you ever considered that because gay people like yourself get so irate about the use of a word it actually gets used more..

I personally do not like being called a Brit by americans because i believe it is used as a slur. I'm not a Brit.

I'm either English or British.

Is it really true that most British people don't like being called Brits?

I hate being called a 'Brit' because it's often used to imply the shaven-headed beer swilling louts that people complain about. As Thaicbr says I'm either English or British, preferably English.

[endure]

It really is about time that some people got over themselves. Professional victimhood is never attractive.

[7by7]

Now, in the UK at least and according to my daughter gay means, amongst other things, uncool.

Wikipedia seems to agree with her.

When used with a derisive attitude (e.g. "that was so gay"), the word gay is pejorative. While retaining its other meanings, it has also acquired "a widespread current usage" amongst young people, as a general term of disparagement.^[31][32] This pejorative usage has its origins in the late 1970s. Beginning in the 1980s and especially in the late 1990s, the usage as a generic insult became common among young people.^[32]

As can be seen from the rest of that section, whether one considers this to be homophobic or not is a matter of opinion.

Personally, I think JT is overreacting. The gay community took a word with one meaning and added another. At the time "Disgusted of Tunbridge Wells" wrote many a letter to the Daily Mail complaining about the language being hijacked; the rest of us accepted it and got on with our lives.

Now another meaning has been added; accept that English is a living language or languish in the past trying to find offense where none is intended; your choice.

[tombkk]

It really is about time that some people got over themselves. Professional victimhood is never attractive.

+1

Even though JT tries to convince us that we should be offended, nobody except for him is. That in itself is sufficient, a qualitative (rather than a quantitative) "poll", but it can indeed be quantified into how many posteres have agreed with him and how many haven't. But that would be facts, and he doesn't want facts.

JT, we have noted your opinion. Time to move on.

Next...

[MAJIC]

Jingthing..

Have you ever considered that because gay people like yourself get so irate about the use of a word it actually gets used more..

I personally do not like being called a Brit by americans because i believe it is used as a slur. I'm not a Brit.

I'm either English or British.

Is it really true that most British people don't like being called Brits? I am doubtful. BTW, I don't think most Americans mind being called Yanks, though probably most of the more provincial ones don't encounter that much (and would care even less). I am pretty clear that most gay people don't like the way the phrase "that's so gay" has developed. No, I can't prove it but that is my strong feeling.

My last post to you on the topic before someone gets their nose out of joint ......

I use the phrase. My gay Thai friends use the phrase. We use the phrase about other OTT gay people but we also use the phrase in general ways. It is a common colloquialism. The other topic was not imho meant to be offensive. You certainly aren't speaking for me or the majority of gay people I know and if the intent wasn't to offend then it becomes a matter for the PC Thought-police and the overly PC crowd.

Fight for years to get the word "gay" acceptable .... and then people try and tell me how to use it? No thanks.

As richard_s pointed out "faggot" coming from anyone's mouth would probably get me riled up and would rate an ass-whoopin .... "That's so gay" is just harmless unless, perhaps you are a gay teen in the USA just coming out ... then again ...

Ageed.

Dictionary time:

1 adj Happily Carefree

2 Bright and attractive

3 funloving or pleasure seeking

4 Homosexual; of ,frequented by,or intended for,homosexuals:a gay bar-n a homosexual.

[Jingthing]

We'll have to agree to disagree. That's so gay is a homophobic slur. Period, end of story.

http://www.advocate.com/Politics/Commentary/Covert_Hate_Speech_Thats_So_Gay/

Thankfully, obvious hate speech is not as freely tolerated as it was in my younger days, but as the acceptance of homosexuality has grown, hate speech has evolved. In addition to the common ways hate-born labels are used to belittle gays and lesbians, hate speech has also become more covert. By adopting the guise of everyday slang, homophobic speech has managed to find acceptance with frightening regularity by many people, including some gays and lesbians.

The expression “that’s so gay” is commonly used to describe anything unpleasant or disliked. For me, personally, this type of slang falls into the hate speech category because it takes one of the simplest words a gay person uses to describe himself and redefines it in a negative way. However, I have found that many gays and lesbians do not share my opinion on the subject and are quick to dismiss its use, or worse, utilize it as well.

Some gay men feel that those who object to the use of “gay” as a negative should “man up” and “deal with it.” They argue that taking offense at the use of such slang is a sign of weakness and that it should not only be accepted but also used in return. While I can appreciate the logic behind the attitude of fighting fire with fire, this approach seems like it does more harm than good because it ignores the damage that this type of speech can cause and validates its use as well.

From the Advocate. About as MAINSTREAM gay media organ as you could possibly imagine. I assert again, MOST gay people would be on my side on this, slurs against us are hate speech, offensive, and that's so gay is such hate speech.

http://www.scribd.com/doc/42242745/That-s-So-Gay-Resource-Guide

Do you hear phrases such as “that’s so gay” in your school, community or family? How do those

words affect you? What do you do when you hear someone using homophobic statements? Did

the exhibit change how you feel about homophobic slurs such as “that’s so gay”?

If you seriously think counting the opinions of a tiny number of atypical posters on a Thai expat forum "proves" anything about whether it is a slur or not; seriously, nobody really believes that, do they? That's kind of scary if they do. Anyway, the poll I had closed was not about that topic anyway. It was specifically about whether GAY people widely use the phrase, and if so, what do they mean. I realize there are self hating gays too, so it wouldn't be shocking if gays slur themselves.

As far being a professional so called "victim" don't you have to be PAID to be considered a professional. In any case, I don't think objecting to homophobia when it occurs is something a victim does. In fact, I find that concept bizarre.

I did learn something in this thread and I am happy to become aware of. Now, I DO believe some gays do use the term that's so gay themselves. This does not mean it is not an anti-gay slur at all. As I mentioned before, so many black people use the N word amongst themselves, but don't you DARE use it if you ain't black ... Now black people get RESPECT.

Edited August 16, 2011 by Jingthing