Thai Police Suspect They Have Found Bodies Of 169 Missing Red-Shirts

[webfact]

Police Reassures Transparency in Investigating 169 Unidentified Bodies

Police are now investigating the discovery of 169 unidentified dead bodies in the graves at Buddhist temples in Rayong Province.

The red-shirt group believes the bodies are of members who were killed in the crackdown on their protest last year.

Chief of the Royal Thai Police's Legal Affairs Office Police, Lieutenant General Santan Chayanont said he has been instructed by Deputy Police Chief Police General Priewphan Damapong to inspect the graves at three temples in Rayong Province where a total of 169 unidentified bodies were found buried.

Police found no death certificates or any other documents that could be used to identify the bodies.

They are now pursuing further investigation.

Santan raised question as to why the bodies had to be transported all the way from Chumphon Province to Rayong as there are still plenty of burial sites in the southern province.

He reaffirmed that the investigation will involve DNA analysis adding that the process may take some time.

It cannot yet be determined when the results will come out.

Santan, meanwhile, gave reassurances that the investigation will be free from political influence and unfair practices.

The red-shirt group earlier speculated that the bodies might be of their supporters who were killed during last year's mass gathering and were hidden by security officials.

-- Tan Network 2011-08-19

[rixalex]

This needs a very open investigation

Of course it does, but what hope is there of that happening?

The whole story is dodgy, and the way in which it is being reported, even dodgier, and not to mention, the timing.

Sick that 169 human lives are being used in some sort of a political game.

[avalonmick]

Two men brought in 169 bodies ... and no one asked any questions?

Just another day at the ...Wat TF!

[DP25]

Regardless of where the bodies came from, politically for the red shirts it will become fact in their propaganda that these bodies were from red shirt 'protestors'.

[hammered]

This needs a very open investigation

Of course it does, but what hope is there of that happening?

The whole story is dodgy, and the way in which it is being reported, even dodgier, and not to mention, the timing.

Sick that 169 human lives are being used in some sort of a political game.

At the monment there is no indication it is dead people being used in a political game althouhg no doubt that will happen. Right now neither the government nor opposition have made an official statement. The police has said the investigation will be transparent and the army have called forpeople to wait the outcome of the investigation. The reds have said they suspect the dead may be some of their people and Suthep has claimed they are all from Chumpol as haved trhe temple abbots. If they are indeed from Chumpol and from the tsunami there must be both some paperwork somewhere and a load of truck drivers, doctors and nurses etc who can attest to this. It will also be interesting to se what local people in Rayong say as Im sure bringing in a load of bodies and sticking them in a mass grave must be something locals would have noticed

The biggest worry is alwauys that powerful people will all do some deals and agree on a front story. The problem of that approach thoughis that people are less likely to be believing without evidence than in the past. Mass graves always raise mass suspicions

[whybother]

Former deputy PM Suthep says 165 bodies in Rayong are unclaimed bodies transf. from Chumphon and not related to missing 51 red-shirts /TAN_Network

So there's only 51 missing red shirts? Where did the 169 (that conveniently matched the number of bodies) come from?

I don't know - where did you get the idea there were 169 missing red shirts from? And why is Suthep getting involved and why has he got a different number of bodies from everybody else?

Police will examine the 169 bodies found buried at two temples in Rayong province to determine if they could be the red-shirt protesters said to have gone missing during last year's riots.

"could be the red shirt protesters" implying that a specific number were missing and they have now been found.

[tig28]

The Thai's would not dream of seeking "outside" assistance as this would Mean massive "loss of face" and an admittance that they not "up to the job" nah just the usual buckets of whitewash and the guilty ones (if there are any) being completely exonerated .

How does this line-up with the Thai government actions after the Tsunami ?? --- they requested and received expert forensic assistance from several international sources. The aim was exactly the same -- identification of bodies.

Apparently they felt no massive "loss of face" then -- why do you think they would now??

[hammered]

Regardless of where the bodies came from, politically for the red shirts it will become fact in their propaganda that these bodies were from red shirt 'protestors'.

That will definitely happen if no plausible explanation is made and backed with evidence. Already street gossip even among non-reds is that way without anyone even trying to spin it. The authorities around during May/April last year really need this explined and quickly if it is indeed Chumpol dead.

[NCFC]

If it is true that these are missing red-shirt demonstrators, and it's only speculation at the moment, then it certainly justifies the actions of the red-shirt protestors to arm themselves with weapons against the attacks from the army.

The events of 1976 and 1992 saw peaceful, unarmed civilians massacred, brutilized and raped, with bodies left hanging from the trees. So there was definitely a precedent set by the army and in 2009 the reds justifiably came armed for their own protection. If these are redshirt bodies, it demonstrates tat the democracy protestors were right in their assumptions about the army.

[whybother]

An abbot said he had never seen the condition of the bodies which reportedly were all men, but some witnesses said that they were bones wrapped in white cloth and put inside the coffins.

Bones? From bodies that had supposedly been dead for days or possibly a couple of months?

[whybother]

If it is true that these are missing red-shirt demonstrators, and it's only speculation at the moment, then it certainly justifies the actions of the red-shirt protestors to arm themselves with weapons against the attacks from the army.

The events of 1976 and 1992 saw peaceful, unarmed civilians massacred, brutilized and raped, with bodies left hanging from the trees. So there was definitely a precedent set by the army and in 2009 the reds justifiably came armed for their own protection. If these are redshirt bodies, it demonstrates tat the democracy protestors were right in their assumptions about the army.

Do you think that maybe if the red shirts hadn't come armed in 2009 and 2010, there would have been no need for the army to shoot at them?

[whybother]

Regardless of where the bodies came from, politically for the red shirts it will become fact in their propaganda that these bodies were from red shirt 'protestors'.

That will definitely happen if no plausible explanation is made and backed with evidence. Already street gossip even among non-reds is that way without anyone even trying to spin it. The authorities around during May/April last year really need this explined and quickly if it is indeed Chumpol dead.

That will happen regardless of the explanations and the evidence.

[lannarebirth]

And what if they're found to be Cambodian fishermen, or Burmese working in the seafood factories. Will anyone give their families justice?

[scotbeve]

Former deputy PM Suthep says 165 bodies in Rayong are unclaimed bodies transf. from Chumphon and not related to missing 51 red-shirts /TAN_Network

Oh well problem solved, the bastion of truth has spoken

News reports also state there are not 169 missing.

http://www.nationmul...h-30133017.html

So lets try to keep it factual, thanks

There are 5 young male (late teens to mid-20's) from our amphur still missing from the crackdown. Strangely enough, they all did not have direct or close relatives or were orphans.....

[whybother]

There are 5 young male (late teens to mid-20's) from our amphur still missing from the crackdown. Strangely enough, they all did not have direct or close relatives or were orphans.....

And the army could tell that when they supposedly killed them?

Is it more likely that these young males stayed in Bangkok after the protests, seeing as they had nothing to go back to?

Edited August 19, 2011 by whybother

[hammered]

Regardless of where the bodies came from, politically for the red shirts it will become fact in their propaganda that these bodies were from red shirt 'protestors'.

That will definitely happen if no plausible explanation is made and backed with evidence. Already street gossip even among non-reds is that way without anyone even trying to spin it. The authorities around during May/April last year really need this explined and quickly if it is indeed Chumpol dead.

That will happen regardless of the explanations and the evidence.

Maybe but my point is that it is what people even non-reds already think on hearing about the graves. It is the default position.

[NCFC]

According to the temples' abbots, the bodies had been brought in by two men from a local charity organisation who told them that the corpses had not been claimed and there were no legal cases related to their deaths.

Amazing Thailand where hundreds of bodies can be buried without so much as a "hi diddly-do".

On the heels of the thousands of aborted fetuses found earlier at other temples, the monkhood is taking another hit.

.

Sounds very fishy to me....what happened to the skeletons near Satthahip? Fishermen always had bones and skulls in their nets and when they finally sent divers, the story suddenly ended. Was Thaksin's :jap: mob who did that.....:jap:

There is a funeral service in Sattahip that disposes of cremated bones in the sea. Both my late uncle and father-in-law had their bones scattered in the sea off Sattahip. The local fishermen have never found skulls, but there are a ton of human bone fragments in the waters in this area. It's very unsurprising that human bone fragments are occassionally trawlled up. The story ended suddenly because there was no substance to the story.

[whybother]

Maybe but my point is that it is what people even non-reds already think on hearing about the graves. It is the default position.

Did they just think that because of the headlines?

And it's interesting that you know what "people even non-reds already think" with this news being less than a day old.

It's the default position of conspiracy theorists.

[phiphidon]

I don't know - where did you get the idea there were 169 missing red shirts from? And why is Suthep getting involved and why has he got a different number of bodies from everybody else?

Police will examine the 169 bodies found buried at two temples in Rayong province to determine if they could be the red-shirt protesters said to have gone missing during last year's riots.

"could be the red shirt protesters" implying that a specific number were missing and they have now been found.

I queried the "quality" of The Nations reporting standards in Post #117

Another fine example of the art of Journalism by The Nation. Why anyone believes or does not at least treat with suspicion anything The Nation writes amazes me at times...........

I'm still amazed.................

[YellowFeverCAD]

Do you have ANY facts to disprove my theory? Which part are you so angry about, the incompetence is already proven to be fair, as for my other thoughts they are merely possibilities, hence the use of the word 'possible' in my post, at no point to I present anything in my post that i purport to be hard facts.

Ummm if its YOUR theory it's up TO YOU to prove it not others to disprove... if that was the case you could just walk around all day saying whatever you want and think people have to disprove it or it's true.. ooops sorry my bad that is exactly what you do...

Deary me haha

Indeed...

[hammered]

Maybe but my point is that it is what people even non-reds already think on hearing about the graves. It is the default position.

Did they just think that because of the headlines?

And it's interesting that you know what "people even non-reds already think" with this news being less than a day old.

It's the default position of conspiracy theorists.

Its called it being talked about by people as I went about my business today. People who I mostly know. I aint questioning Thai people as to why they think something. Its just quite noticeable. People talk about news and a mass grave is big news

[brianb1944]

acting on an order from deputy national police chief General Priewpan Damapong,

Who is, of course, Pogamon's brother and the ex-brother-in-law of Thaksin. I wonder how he knew the bodies would be there?

Are these bodies supposed to be from the 2010 riots or the 2009 riots?

The family relationship of the police chief does not change the facts regarding the bodies if they were murder victims.

At the temple where 72 bodies were found, other news sources have quoted the the abbot as saying the bodies started arriving at his temple in August 2010. However, other news sources have quoted the police as saying the bodies arrived at the the temple in April 2010.

There has been no suggestion that the deceased died violently, the presumption has to be natural causes, for no suspicion to have been aroused.

[rixalex]

At the monment there is no indication it is dead people being used in a political game althouhg no doubt that will happen.

I disagree. The game started the moment certain news outlets ran an as yet entirely baseless and unfounded bit of speculation, not as a footnote, but as the headline to the story - and front page story at that. Please don't try and tell me that happened purely by accident of poor journalism, with no political agenda.

[Sao Jiang Mai]

If the government were trying to hide bodies of an extra 169 red shirts who died in the riots they're not going to dump them off in huge numbers at two random monastery. They would have been destroyed with no trace long ago.

you are assuming some level of foresight and intelligence there.

It is possible the dems did not expect to lose, it is possible they expected if they do lose then the good old army will have kicked out the ptp and reinstated them before these atrocities come to light, or then again based on the dems performance it was probably just good old incompetence.

O dear, were you not just going on about people drawing conclusions without facts two posts before? We don't know. So at this point it is all speculation. If the army did this, then heads have to roll. But until we know, we can only speculate, or pontificate.

[scorecard]

Well, if it is proven that these are people killed during riots, and smuggled away under the Democrats watch, the implications for some very important people are very serious indeed. I wouldn't really matter if people deny that they knew this had happened, they will be guilty be association. From the army leadership down to Suthep, and probably further, they will be in extremely hot water.

It isn't as though the police can't act on a find like this. The outcry (if true) will be deafening.

I wonder if the UK is willing to take a few political refugees because they claim they can't get a fair trial in Thailand?

And I guess you will be the champion of equal justice for all / no double standards, and start campaigning for further investigations and punishment for the 2,500 people assassinated on site in the paymasters war on drugs and the tak bai incident, etc.

IMHO, if anybody is guilty of crimes associated with any of these incidents they should be punished appropriately, regardless of what party they belong to.

Edited August 19, 2011 by scorecard

[hammered]

If the government were trying to hide bodies of an extra 169 red shirts who died in the riots they're not going to dump them off in huge numbers at two random monastery. They would have been destroyed with no trace long ago.

you are assuming some level of foresight and intelligence there.

It is possible the dems did not expect to lose, it is possible they expected if they do lose then the good old army will have kicked out the ptp and reinstated them before these atrocities come to light, or then again based on the dems performance it was probably just good old incompetence.

O dear, were you not just going on about people drawing conclusions without facts two posts before? We don't know. So at this point it is all speculation. If the army did this, then heads have to roll. But until we know, we can only speculate, or pontificate.

The problem may well be that a half baked conclusion is come to which doesnt convince. That is a very worrying propsect. It really needs a full investigation with evidence based findings that are convincing. The good thing is that right now everyone is saying the right thing

[NCFC]

If it is true that these are missing red-shirt demonstrators, and it's only speculation at the moment, then it certainly justifies the actions of the red-shirt protestors to arm themselves with weapons against the attacks from the army.

The events of 1976 and 1992 saw peaceful, unarmed civilians massacred, brutilized and raped, with bodies left hanging from the trees. So there was definitely a precedent set by the army and in 2009 the reds justifiably came armed for their own protection. If these are redshirt bodies, it demonstrates tat the democracy protestors were right in their assumptions about the army.

Do you think that maybe if the red shirts hadn't come armed in 2009 and 2010, there would have been no need for the army to shoot at them?

No I do not.

I think the precedent of 1976 and 1992 shows exactly what the army is capable of doing to unarmed civilians.

[hammered]

Well, if it is proven that these are people killed during riots, and smuggled away under the Democrats watch, the implications for some very important people are very serious indeed. I wouldn't really matter if people deny that they knew this had happened, they will be guilty be association. From the army leadership down to Suthep, and probably further, they will be in extremely hot water.

It isn't as though the police can't act on a find like this. The outcry (if true) will be deafening.

I wonder if the UK is willing to take a few political refugees because they claim they can't get a fair trial in Thailand?

And I guess you will be the champion of equal justice for all / no double standards, and start campaigning for further investigations and punishment for the 2,500 people assassinated on site in the paymasters war on drugs and the tak bai incident, etc.

IMHO, if anybody is guilty of crimes associated with any of these incidents they should be punished appropriately, regardless of what party they belong to.

I totally agree with this. The problem however is that the drug war was carried out openly and with the support of the populace and establishment. It was very popular. I personally find that appalling and that nobody has tried to even investigate it. However, societies rarely like to investigate themsleves in totality. Dirty little hidden mass graves on the other hand are quite likley to see some conclusion reached as it is not something that all agreed on doing

[jbhh]

acting on an order from deputy national police chief General Priewpan Damapong,

Who is, of course, Pogamon's brother and the ex-brother-in-law of Thaksin. I wonder how he knew the bodies would be there?

Are these bodies supposed to be from the 2010 riots or the 2009 riots?

wow, thanks for that piece of information. I bet you could make the best soap in the world just by using the stories that happen in the governments, here and back home...

[random]

Do you have ANY facts to disprove my theory? Which part are you so angry about, the incompetence is already proven to be fair, as for my other thoughts they are merely possibilities, hence the use of the word 'possible' in my post, at no point to I present anything in my post that i purport to be hard facts.

Ummm if its YOUR theory it's up TO YOU to prove it not others to disprove... if that was the case you could just walk around all day saying whatever you want and think people have to disprove it or it's true.. ooops sorry my bad that is exactly what you do...

Deary me haha

Indeed...

as I have said once and reiterated once, I simply mentioned possibilities, I never said they were factual, I never intimated they were factual so therefore nothing to prove, is this so hard to understand?

if I claimed i had facts then i would have to back them up, if I come up with a few possibilities there is no need to back them up as I made no claim that they are factual. If someone chooses to try to argue agaisnt my 'possibilities' they are welcome to, if they want to discount my possibilities they are welcome to prove that these possibilities are wrong and therefore should be discounted.

No back to the subject and away with the pedants, what do you think has happened here? Do you have an opinion, did you just come into here to pick squabbles with other posters without checking your facts???

let me know, I am all ears