Gaddafi Son Unhurt After Shooutout, Rebel Leaders Says

[webfact]

Gaddafi son unhurt after shooutout, rebel leaders says

Cairo - The eldest son of Libyan leader Moamer Gaddafi was not hurt in an exchange of fire between his guards and rebels besieging his house in the capital, Tripoli, the head of the rebel Transitional National Council, Mustafa Abdel Jalil, said.

"Neither Mohamed Moamer Gaddafi nor any one of his family was harmed," Abdel Jalil told the broadcaster Al Jazeera.

"He will remain in his house, and I guarantee his safety," Abdel Jalil said.

Mohamed Gaddafi was speaking by telephone with the news channel hours after rebels swept across Tripoli. Gunfire was heard during the interview, and contact was disrupted.

He is the son of Moamer Gaddafi from an ex-wife. The rebels said they had arrested his half-brother Seif al-Islam.

There were no confirmed reports about the fate or whereabouts of other members of the Gaddafi family.

-- The Nation 2011-08-22

[IMA_FARANG]

As many people are probably aware, things are changing very rapidly in Tripoli now.

As of this time (10:30 a.m. in Bangkok on 22 August) according to the BBC...three sons of Gaddafi have been "detained". Two apparently arrested by the rebels and one who apparently surrended himself to the rebels.

The whereabouts of Gaddafi himself is presently unknown.

Right now, it looks like his regime is rapidly collapsing...but it is still to early to say what is going to happen.

The BBC World service has an ongoing live coverage on their news website...if you are interested.

[siampolee]

So it seems as if Gaddafi may well be on the run, fine, however if there is a power vacuum or a power struggle where do the Nato and American governments stand ? The military forces of the involved participants are stretched thinly on the ground in various theatres of action now as it is. Can the state of Libya be stabilised and governed properly.

The finances of the governments concerned are also somewhat thinly spread, OK so we get both ends to meet.

What about the holes in the middle military wise and fiscal wise ?

We are likely to be going to be involved in a conflict which is essentially tribal in many ways and as such western experts have a job to comprehend the swings to and fro regarding tribal and religious loyalist ideals as has been noted in Afghanistan, Iran, Pakistan etc.

We should be asking, "how many more body bags have to come home to sate the appetite of the arms manufacturers, the bankers and the mineral hungry western states and egotistical politicians, how many more innocent victims have to die for the aforementioned groups and their interests ?"

A can of worms is yet again being opened regarding Libya, the future is to my mind decidedly unclear and if the west is not careful the religious aspect will become the dominant factor in Libya.

Guerilla wars are notorious combat zones one doesn't know ones enemy, brainwashed innocents, people with grudges nationalist freedom fighters, we may well come to rue the day when Gadaffi was deposed." Better the devil one knows that the devils one doesn't."

Edited August 22, 2011 by siampolee

[kerryk]

Just to tie in with Thailand, I wonder if anyone has offered his female bodyguards asylum? How many times to you get that many good looking women that already own matching uniforms and hats and know how to march it has to be a natural for a new Walking street go go. If someone doesn't get the ladies first I would like to volunteer a place for them to stay. They don't scare me, after having been chased around in the middle of the night with knives and shoes and other things in Pattaya many times and I am at least as good looking as their former boss.

[Ulysses G.]

This may be a first, but mostly I agree with siampolee. Why are we fighting to get rid of a neutered, somewhat reformed bad guy, when it is most likely that he will be replaced by someone even worse?

[siampolee]

Steady Ulysses.

Shocks like this one above at my age could be terminal, methinks I feel a touch of the vapours coming on

However. Thanks for the comment

Edited August 22, 2011 by siampolee

[geriatrickid]

So much for the family claim that they would die before being captured. This is a public humiliation for the big guy.There was a claim on the weekend that he would be allowed sanctuary in Tunisia. I anticipate that he will take his own life.

[maidu]

In the old days, when a country was having such a bunch of internal strife, it would sometimes happen that an outside force would come and take over. How about it guys, let's go lease some gunboats (from the Turks or Egyptians) and go charging in to Tripoli harbor. While most of the population is out celebrating and a few dozen Gaddafi hold-outs are bunkered down trying to find an underground passage to freedom, we could just show up with some pop guns and take over. Then what? Then we've got a large mass of land which is 97% desert, and a lot of testosterone pumping young men looking for work or trouble or nookie (not necessarily in that order). On 2nd thought, maybe it's better we just stay home and watch the fireworks on TV.

[Steely Dan]

Ok, the shooting is almost over, let the democracy begin.

http://blog.heritage.org/2011/08/22/libyan-draft-constitution-sharia-is-principal-source-of-legislation/

[Scott]

So much for the family claim that they would die before being captured. This is a public humiliation for the big guy.There was a claim on the weekend that he would be allowed sanctuary in Tunisia. I anticipate that he will take his own life.

Interesting, but most Muslims seem to think that suicide is a huge dishonor and an act of cowardice (as do many others, I might add). I would think he would want to at least appear to be killed and end up a Martyr.

[zydeco]

Uh, oh. It turns out that Seif, Kaddafi's son, was not in fact captured. He is free and giving interviews. It looks like NATO and the rebels were caught lying--again. Everyone with an IQ below 80 is stunned and shocked by this revelation!

[zydeco]

Ok, the shooting is almost over. . .

Or is it? It could be that someone in Kaddafi's inner circle is taking a page from Manstein's frustrated plan to lure the Russians into the Ukraine and then cut them off, which was vetoed by the OKW at the time. Probably not. But just maybe . . .

[Ulysses G.]

Saif al-Islam says the rebels are in a trap.

http://video.foxnews.com/v/1123951611001/saif-al-islam-we-are-winning/?playlist_id=87937

[maidu]

Don't be surprised it it devolves to heists, looting and rapes. It appears there are no police or any other type of security on the streets. Tens of thousands of impoverished, reveling guys totting automatic weapons running around, with no apparent restrictions, except their moral compasses

[Steely Dan]

Don't be surprised it it devolves to heists, looting and rapes. It appears there are no police or any other type of security on the streets. Tens of thousands of impoverished, reveling guys totting automatic weapons running around, with no apparent restrictions, except their moral compasses

Whether we get anarchy as the rebels squabble amongst themselves or a protracted guerrilla war as Gaddafi's followers sabotage the new regime remains to be seen. One thing is plain for all to see though; the totally incoherent ad-hoc nature of the western intervention.

[flying]

One thing is plain for all to see though; the totally incoherent ad-hoc nature of the western intervention.

Agreed but many times I think things are very plain to see yet am amazed at how many walking blind there are.

[Scott]

It ain't over 'til the fat lady sings and according to some posters, her song is 'I will Oil Wells Love You.'

[elcent]

the reports in the corporative mainstream media were clearly PSYOPS. Some did it on purpose while others followed the tall order.

I doubt the reportings of MSM even more now. They try to cover their a**** now. Must feel like a slap in their face right now.

Be aware of PSYOPs

anybody notices the silence of causualities the operation has caused? Who will be responsible for that?

Edited August 23, 2011 by elcent

[zydeco]

the reports in the corporative mainstream media were clearly PSYOPS. Some did it on purpose while others followed the tall order.

I doubt the reportings of MSM even more now. They try to cover their a**** now. Must feel like a slap in their face right now.

Be aware of PSYOPs

anybody notices the silence of causualities the operation has caused? Who will be responsible for that?

CNN is now using its rent-a-generals to claim that Kaddafi has WMDs. Mustard gas and other chemical weapons. Yes, indeed it is true that history repeats itself "first as tragedy, then as farce."

[chooka]

As many people are probably aware, things are changing very rapidly in Tripoli now.

As of this time (10:30 a.m. in Bangkok on 22 August) according to the BBC...three sons of Gaddafi have been "detained". Two apparently arrested by the rebels and one who apparently surrended himself to the rebels.

The whereabouts of Gaddafi himself is presently unknown.

Right now, it looks like his regime is rapidly collapsing...but it is still to early to say what is going to happen.

The BBC World service has an ongoing live coverage on their news website...if you are interested.

The problem in these situations one tyrant is normally replaced with another.

[Exsexyman]

Gaddafi's days were probably numbered as soon as he was persuaded to give up his nuclear weapons program. The unfortunate lesson to the world now, is that if your country has assets that are coveted by the west, make sure you develop or acquire nuclear weapons. Bullies only attack the weak and defenceless. It is estimated that Libya holds around 144 tonnes of gold. I wonder when that will be "liberated", and by whom? Surely there can't be many people left who believe that this whole Libyan adventure was for altruistic reasons, ie protecting innocent civilians. Follow the money, this Nato instigated campaign is being carried out on behalf of the international banksters. Apparently there are only five nations left in the world without a House of Rothschild controlled central bank. Iran, North Korea, Sudan, Cuba, and Libya. I have no doubt there will only be four on the list in a few months. The list used to include Iraq and Afghanistan until recent times. J P Morgan are running the central bank in Iraq which was opened in 2004. In 2008," ( after a decent interval of four years), The Right Honourable Tony Blair, the "liberator" of Iraq was rewarded with a position at J P Morgan as a "consultant" on a salary of five million dollars a year. There are some very rich pickings to be had in Libya. The New York Times are already reporting on the " jostling", and 'positioning",that has already started in relation to oil and rebuilding contracts there.

Of course Gaddafi is a dictator and a tyrant, just about all the leaders in the Middle East and Africa are. I think it is a sad fact of life that in these countries, with hundreds of different tribes and factions, loyal to their own tribal leaders etc, the only way to maintain any kind of order is with an iron fist. A western style democracy is an alien concept unfortunately, and the idea that it can be bombed into them is misguided to say the least. Gaddafi is no worse than most of these dictators, and probably better than most. The average Libyan had the highest standard if living in the region, free education, a decent health service that was probably better than some in Europe. Adult literacy rate of 95 per cent. To many in the West these are uncomfortable facts, but facts nonetheless. The truly sad thing about this whole debacle is that the Libyan's can probably kiss goodbye to these benefits for the foreseeable future. You can almost hear the snuffling of the snouts at the trough already.

[Ulysses G.]

Gaddafi's days were probably numbered as soon as he was persuaded to give up his nuclear weapons program.

Then why did no one bother him until his own people rose up and he started to slaughter them?

[Exsexyman]

Gaddafi's days were probably numbered as soon as he was persuaded to give up his nuclear weapons program.

Then why did no one bother him until his own people rose up and he started to slaughter them?

His own people rose up and he started to slaughter them? The people who rose up were armed rebels instigated and armed by the West. Like it or not Gaddafi was the legitimate leader of a sovereign country. What was he expected to do when armed insurgents, who were a rag tag bunch of Al Qaida and various other Islamic militants were trying to take over the country. This is a Western backed regime change, pure and simple. You are clearly capable of believing six impossible things before breakfast.

[Ulysses G.]

Have you ever heard of the Arab Spring? It was not instigated by the West. The silly conspiracy theories get old after awhile.

[maidu]

Similar to N.Korea, Libya has never had an election, never had more than one party. Rather similar to many other countries also, all of which are oppressive. That's not to say they will start having elections any time soon, even with a new set of guys muscling their way to the top of the ladder. Sharia Law will most likely get forced upon the people by a small vociferous group, and they may wind up being no better off in five years to ten years, than with the current group of thugs at the helm.

Also, heard that some tracts of off-shore oil bearing parcels are coming up for auction, and Russia and China won't be invited to bid on them, because they kept distancing themselves from the conflicts there.

[Exsexyman]

Have you ever heard of the Arab Spring? It was not instigated by the West. The silly conspiracy theories get old after awhile.

The Arab Spring is entirely different from what happened in Libya. The protesters in Egypt, Bahrain etc were unarmed and peaceful. The insurgents in Libya were armed to the teeth from the start, with NATO acting as their airforce. Plenty of footage coming out in the last few days of Western "assets" leading these insurgents on the ground, despite assurances from the politicians of no boots on the ground. And as for you describing anyone who doesn't agree with your tunnel visioned view of the world as a conspiracy theorist, well, it really is juvenile in the extreme.

[Ulysses G.]

The insurgents in Libya were armed to the teeth from the start, with NATO acting as their airforce.

The protest started out peacefully and after the Libyan Government reacted violently the protesters began to strike back. NATO did not start helping them until 3 months later. So much for that particular conspiracy theory.

[maidu]

The "Arab Spring" could be defined broadly or in a focused way. If defined broadly, (concerted protests/uprisings against one party dictators, for example) it would include Libya, as well as All N. African countries except Algeria, and over half of eastern Mediterranean Arab countries. Might even include Iran, though they're not strictly Arab, but Persian.

As for Gaddafi's sons: We heard about 2 captured, then 3 captured. A day later we hear one is free on the streets, but what about the other one or two? Can we get photos of them in detention? And the one mentioned in the OP, here's my take on its likely scenario: He was apprehended, then he bribed one or more turnkeys to let him out. He's very rich, even by western standards, and it might not have taken much persuasion to get out. An unemployed guy guarding him, from a dirt-poor family, is offered a million bucks (cash or gold) to just happen to leave the door unlocked - it's a tough proposition to avoid. Though whether the money/gold actually gets paid is very doubtful.

[zydeco]

The insurgents in Libya were armed to the teeth from the start, with NATO acting as their airforce.

The protest started out peacefully and after the Libyan Government reacted violently the protesters began to strike back. NATO did not start helping them until 3 months later. So much for that particular conspiracy theory.

The "peaceful protestors" started out throwing rocks and capturing and hanging policmen. When these type events take place in the UK, why do so many of the same people supporting Libyan rebels want to shoot and lock up for life UK rebels? I suspect that when things eventually do start to shake out in Libya and all the neocons, NATO-cons, and con-artists running the show in Paris, London, and DC find themselves face to face with their worst nightmare just a few hundred miles off the Italian coast, THEN we'll probably hear the chorus for yet more bombing to start up again.

[Ulysses G.]

The "peaceful protestors" started out throwing rocks and capturing and hanging policmen.

Yeah, yeah and NATO was secretly "acting as their airforce" three months before they got UN approval and the protesters were really SAS and Navy Seals.