Legendary British Farmer Joe Loses Water-Tight 30-Year Lease In Thailand

[DickFarang]

Any farang that puts 22 rai of land in the name of a Thai wife is insane. Do you think she married that old goat for love and companionship ? Thais marry all farang for money...nothing else.

What about farangs marrying Thais for money?

Never heard of.

[Thakkar]

For all those who have bought or intend to buy houses in Thailand with 30 year + leases. Only last week I spoke with a Chief Prosecutor and his comment on leases was? If challenged in a court of law they will not stand up cos they are unquestionably a means to circumvent Thai law. Also if you buy a house from a builder what happens if that builder goes out of business and the banks seize the assets of the company including the leases? What happens if the builder sells his business? Leases are a very dangerous option! I believe there are 7 cases at the moment in Samui where foreigners have bought properties there and third parties are trying to null and void the leases for being illegal?

I'm sure your annoying facts have caused some on these forums to suffer minor heart palpitations, if not worse.

T

[Huey]

I'm not a Lawyer but i think this a far better agreement, much cheaper to set up and it's for your life.

Usufruct Agreements in Thailand

Usufruct contracts are governed by sections 1417 to 1428 of the Commercial and Civil Code of Thailand. A usufruct is a right granted by the owner(s) of the land/house in favor of a usufructuary whereby this person has the right to possess, use and enjoy the benefits of an immovable property (section 1417 CCCT). The usufructuary has the right to manage the property (sect 1414 CCCT). It can be on a piece of land, on a house or on both of them.

I tried to get a usufruct stamp (yes, one exists) from the lands department in Koh Samui. My wife was present and fully supported the stamp as it made our marriage 'equal' and took pressure off her from her mother who was taking a very keen interest in our assets. The land officer (the big boss in the office might I add) refused to issue one to us despite both parties asking and our land title being clear, undisputed chanote in my wifes name. His reasoning was that she shouldn't trust me because I was farang and a usufruct stamp was going against the interests of the country.

Seriously.

Get a Lawyer.

Seriously.

[Thakkar]

Very sad. I saw and hear about these stories many times

However, many times I have to conclude, that the Thai (wife) is much smarter than the farang. Farangs looks many times so stupid

It just takes an IQ of 12 and a vibrant greed to forge a legal document to steal a property. No "smart" wife spotted here.

Sometimes, all a woman really needs to know how to do is fake an orgasm.

T

[jamora]

Any farang that puts 22 rai of land in the name of a Thai wife is insane. Do you think she married that old goat for love and companionship ? Thais marry all farang for money...nothing else.

What about farangs marrying Thais for money?

Never heard of.

I am not saying that I married my wife for money, but if any of us were in it for the money, it would have to be me! Not all Thai girls marry for money, fortunately there are still a lot that marry who they want, and mainly for love!!!

[arthurwait]

Depressing .. but not unique ... actually always had the impression that farang was not allowed to be involved in any kind of farming or agricultural business in general

Be good if they were then you could get 2 litres of decent tasting milk for (1 pound) 49bht, just as you can in England.

Yesss , just made the comparison the other day myself ... milk was around 45 % more expensive here than from where I am from , actually most of the basics are more expensive here except for sugar which is very cheap here ... and veggies do not really look that good either ... so a lot of GOOD farmers from the right places could for sure make a difference .. but that is just a dream ..

There are great veggies if you know where to look. Theres a huge fruit and veg market over the road (Chonburi) that restaurants from Bangkok and Pattaya come to buy from according to the stall holders. All fresh off the fields except the ones on the lazy stall holders stalls too lazy to sell them. Fish fresh out the sea that morning as well. Everything is dirt cheap. However all the supermarkets the fruit and veg is weeks old and at least twice the price.

Dairy products are blooming expensive, but I imagine due to limited demand.

[jamora]

Any farang that puts 22 rai of land in the name of a Thai wife is insane. Do you think she married that old goat for love and companionship ? Thais marry all farang for money...nothing else.

What about farangs marrying Thais for money?

Happens, but not often. If the Thais (or Thai-Chinese, more likely) screen you, the whole family is involved. So, the "just for the money" marriage is not very likely in that scenario.

Yep, I have experienced the screening first hand, but in the end it's all worth it! My main point is just that generalizing in such a negative way about Thais as 'jalansanitwong' have done, just makes the poster look slightly unintelligent!

[Thakkar]

I don't know much, but what i did,is put down a small deposit for a house and got her to take out a 30 year loan, if i leave she can't pay it, if she gets a new farang, i'll beat the shit out of him, if she leaves, I'll pay her a small monthly allowance, in 30 years ,she can do what she wants hehehehehehe, small investment, i'd say, unfortunately, she loves me and has to suffer for the egoistic ,thieving,ungrateful antics of her fellow species here in Thailand....

They are the same species as you. Or me, for that matter. Granted, females everywhere do give reasons to suspect they may hail from a another planet (Venus?), but that's another topic.

T

[Thakkar]

Don't ever think that a case like this will only happen to a farang.

Thai people can, and have, the same problems.

This is true. I was chatting to a Bangkok taxi driver the other day who had just returned from Saudi where he'd been working in a factory for a couple of years and sending over money to his fiance. He came back to find his fiance and the money nowhere to be found. Amounted to three and a half million baht. When I asked him how he felt about it he just said, 'I was stupid.'

It would be refreashing to hear more farangs admit their stupidity rather than become cynical and bitter because they were basically stupid.

[rametindallas]

It is not at all clear from the story what happened in legal terms but an agreement between man and wife can be annulled by a court, if one party can produce evidence that it was an unfair agreement forced on them through the undue influence exercised by the spouse in the marital relationship. It sounds like some fraud was also involved in the form of doctoring agreements after the event. At the time of the original transaction in 2000 he could easily have purchased the land through a company which he would have needed to conduct the business anyway. He was insane to purchase it in the name of a Thai hooker.

Usufructs have some advantages over leases, as they can be life long and for nil consideration which reduces the tax burden to virtually nil, but they are subject to the same risks of being voided between man and wife and being fraudulently doctored as leases.

The real story for the UK tabloids will not be yet another naive farang being robbed by a Thai prostitute he was foolish enough to marry but the social workers getting a trip to Thailand on the taxpayer, if they are really so bold to try such a scam. They are not experts on Thai law and cannot read or speak Thai. What could they possibly achieve by travelling to Thailand?

Gree holiday on the taxpayers money

[huck]

A couple of days ago I read that Thailand was trying to change it's image from being known as the sex captial of the world by eliminating prostitution. It seems to me that their priorities are backwards. Land Fraud, police fraud, attorney fraud. Behind the fluff of a modern infrastructue, sky trains, subways, big malls, etc. It is still a 3rd world country. Corruption here will never go away.

ps

even the new woman priminster is facing charges from the security exchange commision here...ain't that a laugh!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

ad infinetum. They can't change and thats the bottom line. There is no ifs ands or buts about it. You have to remember always you are a Foreigner with absolutely no rights.

At least in the western world there is the rule of law. it may not be perfect, but its a dam sight better than what you get here.

I comnpletely agree and Thailand wanted to put forward its own candidate fro IMF position. So they really don t know who they are, or even how far off the mark they are. Thats what makes this country a problem. Because they are living in dream land and think the whole world is like this. But its basically Africa here. Luck we white folks don t get eaten for breakfast.

[rametindallas]

Depressing .. but not unique ... actually always had the impression that farang was not allowed to be involved in any kind of farming or agricultural business in general

Be good if they were then you could get 2 litres of decent tasting milk for (1 pound) 49bht, just as you can in England.

Actually, you can get decent tasting milk - Meiji . . .

Ha, sure, if you like re-constituted powdered milk from china that tastes more watery than skim milk in the west

try Thai-Danish UHT in the small cartons or Chitralada Co-op UHT. Taste more like fresh than anything in the 'fresh' cooler. all the ['fresh' milk tastes like reconstituted powdered milk; yuk!

[arthurwait]

Any farang that puts 22 rai of land in the name of a Thai wife is insane. Do you think she married that old goat for love and companionship ? Thais marry all farang for money...nothing else.

What about farangs marrying Thais for money?

Never heard of.

I am not saying that I married my wife for money, but if any of us were in it for the money, it would have to be me! Not all Thai girls marry for money, fortunately there are still a lot that marry who they want, and mainly for love!!!

Same here. We met at university in the UK 11 years ago. I had the usual student funds and obviously no assets. The wife on the other hand is one of those dastardly Thai- Chinese.

[moe666]

Now seriously, if someone really screws you like that, why not take bit of money and give it to the right people so that they can take care of the ex-wife? I don't see Japanese men getting screwed like this cause any girl that would do so knows that her life would soon come to an end... It's mostly white guys who are stupid enough to trust the girl in the first place, second fail to get the right legal advise and third let them get away when it all goes down... You are in Asia, people here DO NOT live by the same rules like back home... They have very limited respect towards you (if any) and most wouldn't think twice about screwing you over very small amount of money. Grow a set of balls and deal with it, if enough people do so they'll think twice about screwing foreigners over..

Really what do you know about japanese guys here, since they donot post at a english language forum how do we know they are not getting ripped off. There have benn cases of Japanese getting murdered and ripped off in Thailand. There not all yakusa

[Trouble]

A couple of days ago I read that Thailand was trying to change it's image from being known as the sex captial of the world by eliminating prostitution. It seems to me that their priorities are backwards. Land Fraud, police fraud, attorney fraud. Behind the fluff of a modern infrastructue, sky trains, subways, big malls, etc. It is still a 3rd world country. Corruption here will never go away.

ps

even the new woman priminster is facing charges from the security exchange commision here...ain't that a laugh!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

ad infinetum. They can't change and thats the bottom line. There is no ifs ands or buts about it. You have to remember always you are a Foreigner with absolutely no rights.

At least in the western world there is the rule of law. it may not be perfect, but its a dam sight better than what you get here.

I comnpletely agree and Thailand wanted to put forward its own candidate fro IMF position. So they really don t know who they are, or even how far off the mark they are. Thats what makes this country a problem. Because they are living in dream land and think the whole world is like this. But its basically Africa here. Luck we white folks don t get eaten for breakfast.

Any farang who goes to Thailand and marries a Thai and then buys property and house with his money which he must put in his wife's name is a fool. There is no protection in Thailand for a farang. This happens repeatedly. In fact one can't go to any forum on Thailand and not read about some news like this. Even here in America a middle age (or older man) who has worked and accumulated assets would be a fool to get married without a prenuptual agreement. It is obvious by reading these stories over and over and from some sad personal experience that many (not all) Thais marry or get involved with farangs to better their economic prospects and not for love. How can anyone assume that the "love" will last? That being said when the honeymoon wears off they take the money, property and run. Farmer Joe would have been better off keeping his money in England, leasing the land, and doing his business operation, and sending the profits to England for safekeeping. Seems one can't trust the wives any more than the jet ski operators.

[luvU2much500THB]

"Water-tight 30year Lease"

Farang can not own land inThailand and NO 30year lease is "watertight" for a farang.

It amazes me how farangs sign papers written in thai anyway

Any farang who goes to Thailand and marries a Thai and then buys property and house with his money which he must put in his wife's name is a fool. There is no protection in Thailand for a farang. [/Quote]

I will never understand this. Put my assets in name of a thai girl ??? hahahah never ever!!

[moe666]

Some funny stuff here, in the end no matter where you live you can be ripped off by a wife, friend, or business partner. I know a lawyer who didn't fully read a contract in business with long time friend and business partner now that he wants some of his money out the friend says sorry read the contract we can with hold payout if we determine a need for the business is to keep the money.

This is two lawyers, fighting over big money here in the states.

Rip off happens everywhere and it isn't just Thai women

[Thakkar]

Any farang who goes to Thailand and marries a Thai and then buys property and house with his money which he must put in his wife's name is a fool. There is no protection in Thailand for a farang. This happens repeatedly. In fact one can't go to any forum on Thailand and not read about some news like this. Even here in America a middle age (or older man) who has worked and accumulated assets would be a fool to get married without a prenuptual agreement. It is obvious by reading these stories over and over and from some sad personal experience that many (not all) Thais marry or get involved with farangs to better their economic prospects and not for love. How can anyone assume that the "love" will last? That being said when the honeymoon wears off they take the money, property and run. Farmer Joe would have been better off keeping his money in England, leasing the land, and doing his business operation, and sending the profits to England for safekeeping. Seems one can't trust the wives any more than the jet ski operators.

But...but, unlike most jet ski operators, the wives have vaginas!

T

[Thakkar]

Spot on. I'm setting up shop here... Gonna do it mainly for experience and to make a quick buck -- perhaps start a lasting corporation. However, I fully understand that someday it'll all be taken away from me. That's cool with me as long as I have the clothes on my back and the freedom to start over again.

If you've got the clothes on your back and a bit of money,why aren't you happy already,having heard horror stories, your just another standing in line for idiocy!!

Because it's more important to have a full life than a happy life?

(Read his post. He said "mainly for the experience". And if things went south and he was left with the clothes on his back, he said he'd be cool with it— not quite the same as 'happy')

T

[TechnikaIII]

To whom it may concern:check your 30 year leases!

To whom it may concern: check your wife !

Better:

Check the woman before you make her your wife, and embark upon that journey over deep waters where no farang is allowed to swim.

Never let members of her family take the helm, and keep your personal lifeboat stocked with rations.

Besides that, "water tight" is not acid-proof. Nor are you bullet proof.

The only security for farangs owning anything in Thailand comes from within, in the knowledge that if were you to lose everything, none of it means squat.

[SGD]

This is true. I was chatting to a Bangkok taxi driver the other day who had just returned from Saudi where he'd been working in a factory for a couple of years and sending over money to his fiance. He came back to find his fiance and the money nowhere to be found. Amounted to three and a half million baht. When I asked him how he felt about it he just said, 'I was stupid.'

It would be refreashing to hear more farangs admit their stupidity rather than become cynical and bitter because they were basically stupid.

Prey tell where Thai taxi drivers can go to work for a couple of years and come out with 3.5m baht saved ? That is around $50,000 each year after all costs. I'd take such tales with a pinch of salt.

[TAWP]

This is true. I was chatting to a Bangkok taxi driver the other day who had just returned from Saudi where he'd been working in a factory for a couple of years and sending over money to his fiance. He came back to find his fiance and the money nowhere to be found. Amounted to three and a half million baht. When I asked him how he felt about it he just said, 'I was stupid.'

It would be refreashing to hear more farangs admit their stupidity rather than become cynical and bitter because they were basically stupid.

Prey tell where Thai taxi drivers can go to work for a couple of years and come out with 3.5m baht saved ? That is around $50,000 each year after all costs. I'd take such tales with a pinch of salt.

I was once driven to the airport by an fairly old driver that spook perfect non-native English - turned out he was a retired Colonel.

Don't judge the current profession with what they might have done before or in another country [before being ripped off at home] and switched to someone easier/less stressful...

[astral]

Time to reaffirm my warning,

Do not invest more in Thailand, than you are prepared to walk away from.

No matter what the law may say.

Advice from a dear friend, now dead,

and painfully true for me................

[travelmann]

Any farang who goes to Thailand and marries a Thai and then buys property and house with his money which he must put in his wife's name is a fool. There is no protection in Thailand for a farang. This happens repeatedly. In fact one can't go to any forum on Thailand and not read about some news like this. Even here in America a middle age (or older man) who has worked and accumulated assets would be a fool to get married without a prenuptual agreement. It is obvious by reading these stories over and over and from some sad personal experience that many (not all) Thais marry or get involved with farangs to better their economic prospects and not for love. How can anyone assume that the "love" will last? That being said when the honeymoon wears off they take the money, property and run. Farmer Joe would have been better off keeping his money in England, leasing the land, and doing his business operation, and sending the profits to England for safekeeping. Seems one can't trust the wives any more than the jet ski operators.

But...but, unlike most jet ski operators, the wives have vaginas!

T

I think some would call the jet ski folk C***ts though

[balo]

The only thing you can buy in Thailand in your own name is a condo. Forget turkeys , invest in condos.

[loser1]

when will you old men learn

[sfbandung]

The Thai bashing going on here is unbelievable.

I have a couple of questions to the detractors:

If you live in Thailand but feel the need to rubbish the place and the people endlessly then why do you stay?

If you don't live in Thailand and are not in a relationship with a Thai then why are you here in this forum rubbishing a place and people you know nothing about?

If you have married a beautiful woman 20 or more years younger than you and you think it's because you are a great person then why couldn't you jag a young beauty in your home country?

I am married to a Thai lady 19 years my junior, we presently live in another 3rd world country where I am working at present. I've lived here for nearly 20 years and have seen plenty of blokes who fall hopelessly in love with young girls and then suffer emotionally or financially or both. There is no doubt the vast majority of these types of relationships (ones with a substantial age difference) are based initially on the lady wanting out of a desperate situation, either abject poverty or being subject to routine bashings. Not because they find old men attractive. This happens in all 3rd world countries, it is not unqiue to Thailand. Many of these relationships fail and many prosper. Young blokes have an excuse for being naive, older men don't. Accept the fact that the lady is with you to escape and try to make it work. Most older blokes can tell very quickly, certainly inside a year, if they're being had.

Where I live there is a fairly small Thai community (30 - 40 ladies) comprised almost exclusively of women who were "working" in Thailand and subsequently married a farang client who offered them a permanent way out. They are a highly principled group and their husbands (like myself) are the happiest they have ever been. There are few exceptions. Perhaps it should be pointed out though that these men all have many years of 3rd world country experience.

LIfe is what you make it. Be a realist and be careful. If you're not happy then do something about it, don't sit and bitch and try to make everyone around you miserable too.

If you screwed up, it's your fault, no one else's.

[geezer553]

"farmer joe" what a numpty_ your thai wife owned 51 percent of your business... unfortantly thai people are not business minded--all farrang no that.... there are some very good thai business people but you meet a young thai lady

and fall in love, get married ,, sign your life away------ then lose everything you have worked for,. devestating rather you than me fella!!!! woman in thailand are easy to find_ finding one trustworthy enough is another matter....

myself i have a wonderful lady_ who would never steal a single baht,. she no all my visa card numbers / been left with thousands of pounds---- "the books which are avaliable for farrang to read" money number 1 and many/many others the stories seem far fetched,.but 90% true,. anybody who lease land will normaly go through a official estate office-- many exicist throughout thailand,. for peace of mind and a small cost-if everything do go tits up and you decide to sell you will not lose your livelyhood,. i wish you happiness fella,,...but lets say the elder man feels a million dollars-goes to thailand and falls in love-- loses everything!!!!!!! he only has himself to blame

[TommyDee]

putting his kids into council care so that he can try and claw back a bit of rented land wont go far for him in the "father of the year" finals. in fact it says quite a lot about the man. Must ve been here a long time as he has adapted to the trait.." money number one", I am sure his kids will "thank" him in later years when, in a home, he wants his colostomy changed and they "accidentally" dont notice.

that is just wrong, in so many ways

[mca]

Legendary turkey farmer Joe Stanyer

Who?