Whatever Happened To

[rio666uk]

a few years back, i had the misfortune of calling the miami hotel - suk soi 13 - home for a month or 2...

i remember doing my usual routine, get up - have a swim - have a shower - walk down the road to get a large sprite, 20 marlboro lights and a bangkok post...

one morning i came out of the hotel to find that the building on the opposite side of the road (which housed bars and shops) had been flattened, overnight, to make way for a new hotel.

there was a huge uproar from the local bar and shop owners as there was apparently no notice of this, it was all across the newspapers and was what everyone was talking about for weeks... i believe they were offered minimal compensation

when i got married last september - i noticed that this area was still just a load of rubble, does anyone know if this has now been built on? or what the outcome is/was?

[monochaser]

Dude, where you been man? Chuwit, the owner of that land, proposed a few years ago to put a park on that land. The park now is near completion and I'm dam ned happy about it. Good riddance to those worthless bars and hello nice new park. Chuwit could have sold out to the highest bidder but instead did a great deed. I applaud the man. I live in the neighborhood so I'm happy.

BTW: what's it like living amidst the rats and roaches in that beyond-a-fleabag Miami? I'd like to see a wrecking ball to that dump soon, and probably will

[rio666uk]

ive been at home, Bristol, UK since getting married last year

so they have finally done something with it then.... good it was an eyesore

as for the miami - as you rightly say... its... well,... crap...

thanks

[Spit the Dog]

BTW: what's it like living amidst the rats and roaches in that beyond-a-fleabag Miami? I'd like to see a wrecking ball to that dump soon, and probably will

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I had the misfortune of staying in the Miami for a couple nights back in 2000. Probably the rudest, most ignorant bunch of bastards that I have ever came across in Thailand.

[ProfessorFart]

I think you mean Sukhumwit Square although the Ambassador's old wing has also been levelled now.

I thought Sukhumwit Square was actually an OK beer bar place which seemed aimed at regular tourists more than P4P players. I enjoyed the company of some rather pleasant Western women there during its short life (no, not Russian slappers!!) as it managed to avoid attracting those washed out monger types who were such an eyesore in Clinton Plaza.

The place had great potential I felt. Shame about prissy folks like monochaser who instantly frown upon bars and their patrons despite probably having spent many hours propping them up in his time. Reaching the 3rd stage of expathood maybe.......?

The Miami isn't as bad as you guys make out. OK, it's not luxury but for 600B a night in that location it has been a useful standby for me on several occasions when my preffered places have been full.

Maybe monochaser wants to see Sukhumwit become a sterile procession of faceless 5* hotels and shopping malls......?

[trajan]

Hurray for Chuwit! A cool looking park is nearing completion on that site!! yes, yes, we need more green lungs in Bangkok

The "Miami" hotel will be sandwiched between a new upscale Regent Hotel on one side and a new Sofitel hotel on the other.....hopefully they at least paint the Miami or demolish it and put in trees and grass!!!

[Khutan]

<snip>Maybe monochaser wants to see Sukhumwit become a sterile procession of faceless 5* hotels and shopping malls......?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Maybe Moonchaser like me it a little tired of Sukhumvit. I live at one end of "The Golden Mile" and work at the other. The park is a great change and an excellent improvement of the streetscape adding an open green area of what is only a concrete jungle. The Park being in Soi 6, the nearest parks I can think of are either Soi 22 or Lumpini.

I don't mind going to the odd bar now and then on the Suk 1 - 23 strip, the constant ebb and flow of drunken tourists staggering around darped all over their "New found love" often 10:00 am - 2:00 pm to me in am embarrasment.

Come to think of it I really like Suk on a monday, nearly no street vendors, and people can actually walk up and down the place. The pavement must be 3m wide, but when the stalls get in, the room to move reduces to about 60cm, even more fun when a vendor is pushing their cart of over-priced trinkets along as well.

But this makes me ask the question what roads are there in Bangkok that aren't full of Bars and Trinket-sellers. The first one that comes to mind is Rachadapisedik, Or maybe Lad Phrao, or Pahonyotin, or even New Petchburi Rd. I would be really happy for Suk to return to that style.

[COBBER]

Dude, where you been man? Chuwit, the owner of that land, proposed a few years ago to put a park on that land. The park now is near completion and I'm dam ned happy about it. Good riddance to those worthless bars and hello nice new park. Chuwit could have sold out to the highest bidder but instead did a great deed. I applaud the man. I live in the neighborhood so I'm happy.

BTW: what's it like living amidst the rats and roaches in that beyond-a-fleabag Miami? I'd like to see a wrecking ball to that dump soon, and probably will

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Yep. Khun Chuwit is now a pillar of society.

I enjoyed going to those bars for a quiet drink. They were a good alternative to Nana Plazza and some of the plastic trendy bars that have sprung up on the opposite side of Sukhumvit that are a bit too full on for me.

[rio666uk]

hmm - so let me get this straight, you guys know where im talking about now - it used to be bars, then got levelled and is now a park??? is that right??

and what about the singha beer garden outside of the ambassador - is that still an outside eatery of sorts or is this where another hotel has been built?

there is, or used to be, a small enclosed mini soi full of beer bars just opposite this building site, the one at the far end is/was the pool bar and had a guy who used to do tatooing in one corner of this bar...

[griser]

I believe you are talking about what was once known as clinton plaza... Chuwit himself was the man who demolished it without notifiying any of the bar or store owners I might add.

The buildings went down so quick people were running out of collapsing buildings

Not nice... Kuhn Chuwit

Greg

[ProfessorFart]

Sukhumwit Square was opposite Clinton Plaza Greg.

I too have lived in the 'Golden Mile' Mattnich, yet I never let any misplaced sense of shame at my fellow Westerners make me feel anything less than a love for that area. If anything the vibrancy they bought to my life made it all the richer. Far more fun than sitting in a park if you ask me.

That said, blokes draped in hookers can let the side down somewhat especially when they used to be unashamedly chasing hookers down in Clinton Plaza during the day in full view of the street. These were thankfully a minority and the majority who leave such nefarious activities until after dark I have no problem with at all. It is they after all who provide the lifeblood for the area.

In addition to this one has to bear in mind that this area is a tourist resort as much as it is a residential area and sadly for Mattnich and monochaser, tourists want bars and women, not parks.

If the lack of parks, horrible bars and those vile tourists peeve you so, why not move to a greener less touristed part of the city......?

Edited November 1, 2005 by ProfessorFart

[WhiteShiva]

Sukhumwit Square was opposite Clinton Plaza Greg.

I too have lived in the 'Golden Mile' Mattnich, yet I never let any misplaced sense of shame at my fellow Westerners make me feel anything less than a love for that area.  If anything the vibrancy they bought to my life made it all the richer. Far more fun than sitting in a park if you ask me.

That said, blokes draped in hookers can let the side down somewhat especially when they used to be unashamedly chasing hookers down in Clinton Plaza during the day in full view of the street. These were thankfully a minority and the majority who leave such nefarious activities until after dark I have no problem with at all. It is they after all who provide the lifeblood for the area.

In addition to this one has to bear in mind that this area is a tourist resort as much as it is a residential area and sadly for Mattnich and monochaser, tourists want bars and women, not parks.

If the lack of parks, horrible bars and those vile tourists peeve you so, why not move to a greener less touristed part of the city......?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Perhaps he works there - Lower Sukhumvit is in fact a business area - and I am not talking about prostitution.....

Personally I could never understand why anyone would come on holiday to Thailand and spend time in Sukhumvit. OK, its got beer, bars and slappers, but you find plenty of those in Phuket, Pattaya and Samui as well. And there you have the benefit of clean air, beaches and considerably less traffic. Lack of imagination, perhaps....?

[Khutan]

<snip>That said, blokes draped in hookers can let the side down somewhat especially when they used to be unashamedly chasing hookers down in Clinton Plaza during the day in full view of the street. These were thankfully a minority and the majority who leave such nefarious activities until after dark I have no problem with at all. It is they after all who provide the lifeblood for the area.<snip>

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I wasn't talking about after dark, rather late morning to the middle of the day. Call me a prude, but I think that behaviour is objectionable. Sure at night, let them go off and play with their "Darlings", but drunks at that time of the day....

<snip> In addition to this one has to bear in mind that this area is a tourist resort as much as it is a residential area and sadly for Mattnich and monochaser, tourists want bars and women, not parks. <snip>

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Umm, thats an interesting generalization. Are you saying all tourists want bars or rather you want bars ?

<snip> If the lack of parks, horrible bars and those vile tourists peeve you so, why not move to a greener less touristed part of the city......?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Why should I ? I don't mind the bars, and its only a few tourists that make us all look bad.

[monochaser]

<snip>Maybe monochaser wants to see Sukhumwit become a sterile procession of faceless 5* hotels and shopping malls......?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Maybe Moonchaser like me it a little tired of Sukhumvit. I live at one end of "The Golden Mile" and work at the other. The park is a great change and an excellent improvement of the streetscape adding an open green area of what is only a concrete jungle. The Park being in Soi 6, the nearest parks I can think of are either Soi 22 or Lumpini.

I don't mind going to the odd bar now and then on the Suk 1 - 23 strip, the constant ebb and flow of drunken tourists staggering around darped all over their "New found love" often 10:00 am - 2:00 pm to me in am embarrasment.

Come to think of it I really like Suk on a monday, nearly no street vendors, and people can actually walk up and down the place. The pavement must be 3m wide, but when the stalls get in, the room to move reduces to about 60cm, even more fun when a vendor is pushing their cart of over-priced trinkets along as well.

But this makes me ask the question what roads are there in Bangkok that aren't full of Bars and Trinket-sellers. The first one that comes to mind is Rachadapisedik, Or maybe Lad Phrao, or Pahonyotin, or even New Petchburi Rd. I would be really happy for Suk to return to that style.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Amen to all that Matt. I live right in the heart of that golden mile you speak of and I must say that Monday is my favorite day of the week for reason you mentioned. Cheers to the new Sukhumvit

[ProfessorFart]

Maybe Moonchaser like me it a little tired of Sukhumvit. I live at one end of "The Golden Mile" and work at the other.

Again I'll say if you are tired of Sukhumwit then move away. There are plenty of less touristy places within easy commuting distance nowadays. However I agree that a nice park does wonders to the road there. Its just a shame that it was at the expense of some potentially decent bars when the removal of a faceless and pointless shopping mall or 5* hotel for a park would have got me smiling!!

I wasn't talking about after dark, rather late morning to the middle of the day. Call me a prude, but I think that behaviour is objectionable. Sure at night, let them go off and play with their "Darlings", but drunks at that time of the day....

Agreed!

Personally I could never understand why anyone would come on holiday to Thailand and spend time in Sukhumvit. OK, its got beer, bars and slappers, but you find plenty of those in Phuket, Pattaya and Samui as well. And there you have the benefit of clean air, beaches and considerably less traffic. Lack of imagination, perhaps....?

Well bear in mind that many people are not return visitors to Thailand and simply do not form the bond nor have the wish to make repeat trips as we all do.

As Sukhumwit has a high number of tourist hotels is is only natural that they will head there as they know no better.

Umm, thats an interesting generalization. Are you saying all tourists want bars or rather you want bars ?

I'm saying that most tourists want bars and that I want bars too. Show me a major tourist destination anywhere in the world where there is no nightlife option.

[monochaser]

Hey Dude, Pattaya is only 2 hours away for you and you have an infinite # of those portabars at your disposal. Enjoy cause that's where you gotta go for them now

[ProfessorFart]

Market forces will see a return of the beer bar in Bangkok.

When the Thai businessmen twig on that all of these flash A/C places are empty and cost a fortune, opposed to a basic beer bar, they'll be springing up all over the place again especially once Mr T and his Singaporean vision for Bangkok has departed.

I thin Chuwit's new park would make a splendid venue for a beer bar complex.........

[Sunbelt Asia]

The Clinton Plaza site has a new 5 star Sofitel Hotel being built.

In front of the Ambassador Hotel is construction of two very large buildings as a exclusive 5 star hotel and condominiums.

Across the street from the Clinton is Chuwit's park and this should be opening soon.

www.sunbeltasia.com

[taxexile]

i imagine that there will be just as many drunken tourists chasing painted slappers around the park during the day as there were chasing them around in clinton plaza.

that area is truly wonderful , especially after 10pm , the juxtaposition of 5 star hotels , pricey restaurants , low rent falangs , angry looking muslim beardos with their masked women , slackjawed new arrivals just out for their first stroll of the holiday ,the hordes of screeching and cackling slapperati , sleazoid cab drivers and hustlers pimping for massage parlours , muscled up transvestites and smelly beggars , the food sellers , and the rats the cockroaches is surely unique and unequalled. its the garden of heavenly delights by heironymous bosch combined with william hogarths gin lane.

its a circus , its a freak show , its a lunatic asylum.

its a tourist attraction in itself , its the best free show in the country.

long may it rock.

[Axel]

Very nice description taxexile, you gave me a good laugh.

[dek_shai_khing]

Market forces will see a return of the beer bar in Bangkok.

When the Thai businessmen twig on that all of these flash A/C places are empty and cost a fortune, opposed to a basic beer bar, they'll be springing up all over the place again especially once Mr T and his Singaporean vision for Bangkok has departed.

Dream on. The seeds of Thaskins vision for a Singaporean vision are irreversable.

Who do you think is going to rent these luxury rooms in the new Hotels & apartments that are being constructed on the Sukhumvit ? My guess it will be the high end well heeled tourist that are looking for a little comfort when out on the town.

When the bar scene changed in Hong Kong & Singapore, from shanty curtain holes in the wall bars, to what it has become today, i think its fair to say that the businessman that started to frequent the newly flash A/C places in both these countries, have moved on with the times, and the bars by all accounts are thriving. Why should Thailand be any different ?

[bkkjames]

I have to agree with Professorfart on this one.

Have you really looked at Chuwit's park? It's got a big wall around it and I think it would take all of one minute to walk around it.

I have seen unfortunate evolution of Sukhumvit over the last 6 years and quite frankly one of the main reasons people stayed at the Landmark, Marriot, Sheraton, Westin was because of the raw atmosphere of the area. Those other visitors coming here for strict business purposes probably headed for the Hyatt, Sukhothai, Banyan Tree, Four Seasons etc due to their proximity to the main cbd area of Bangkok.

But let's be honest, besides a few fair sized companies up Asoke and in Pacific Place, I would hardly call Sukhumvit the heart of Bangkok's financial center.

So why do people want to stay on Sukhumvit? Moreover, why will they want to stay on Sukhumvit in the future? Nothing but a/c british pubs and crappy chain restaurants now. Can get that at home, no need to see that hear in Bangkok.

The sad part is that as more and more big hotel chains are moving into the area, the are raising the property values so more and more little establishments are on there way out to make room for places like "Ethan Allan" near soi 19? I wonder how business is doing there? Do they really think that Sukhumvit road between 1 and 21 is going to turn into Bangkok's High Street? Must be the same folks that thought that Erawan Center was a good idea or that Bangkok is going to be the fashion capital of asia.

It's no wonder Rachada Soi 4 is booming.

[Sunbelt Asia]

out to make room for places like "Ethan Allan" near soi 19? I wonder how business is doing there?

They are doing quite well. First month exceeded their expectations. Because of shipping and customs, the prices on average on the furniture are 150% higher than the States. But for cliental price is not a problem, they are looking at the quality. ETHAN ALLEN HOME INTERIORS is at 219/2 SUKHUMVIT ROAD BETWEEN SOI 15 AND 17 Tel:66-2-254-6644 fax:66-2-254-6630 http://www.ethanallen.com

It's no wonder Rachada Soi 4 is booming.

These days it is RCA that is the firecracker.

www.sunbeltasia.com

[ProfessorFart]

Who do you think is going to rent these luxury rooms in the new Hotels & apartments that are being constructed on the Sukhumvit ? My guess it will be the high end well heeled tourist that are looking for a little comfort when out on the town.

And just who is going to inhabit these places? Top end hotels in Bangkok already suffer from under occupancy. The solution is not to build more.

By likening Bangkok to Singapore and Hong Kong you are missing one key point.

Both Singapore and HK are (and were back then) major players in World business and had the financial infrastructure to support a move away from more earthy roots into the world of upmarket drinking joints, shopping malls, etc. They had an educated population with decent amounts of disposable income.

Bangkok is nowhere near the status that Singapore and HK were when they transformed. Bangkok simply does not have enough high end earners nor will it magically attract more well heeled tourists to support becoming one huge shopping mall and hotel complex.

At the end of the day the tourists being aimed at by Thaksin's vision will probably only ever visit Bangkok once or twice in a lifetime. They may come for 5 nights in Bangkok spend a thousand US$ and then vanish.

Just by ripping anything deemed 'unsightly' by a minority of well off people and slapping up a load of nice 5* hotels, condos, and shopping malls is not going to transform Bangkok into a major player in the financial World.

The big mistake is that they are simply aiming way too high. Were the current regime looking at encouraging the mid range frequent visitors, middle income Western retirees, middle class Thais etc who not only spend money in Thailand but will spend it there year after year, then that would then maybe provide some kind of solid foundation to build upon for the future.

Those who return year after year after year are not attracted to Bangkok because of shopping malls and 5* hotels. They are attracted by the women, the weather, the low cost of living, the nightlife, by the very spirit of Bangkok itself. Rip that away and replace it with plastic, chrome and air con in a city whose indigenous population can not support it and you're heading for disaster.

[COBBER]

Who do you think is going to rent these luxury rooms in the new Hotels & apartments that are being constructed on the Sukhumvit ? My guess it will be the high end well heeled tourist that are looking for a little comfort when out on the town.

And just who is going to inhabit these places? Top end hotels in Bangkok already suffer from under occupancy. The solution is not to build more.

By likening Bangkok to Singapore and Hong Kong you are missing one key point.

Both Singapore and HK are (and were back then) major players in World business and had the financial infrastructure to support a move away from more earthy roots into the world of upmarket drinking joints, shopping malls, etc. They had an educated population with decent amounts of disposable income.

Bangkok is nowhere near the status that Singapore and HK were when they transformed. Bangkok simply does not have enough high end earners nor will it magically attract more well heeled tourists to support becoming one huge shopping mall and hotel complex.

At the end of the day the tourists being aimed at by Thaksin's vision will probably only ever visit Bangkok once or twice in a lifetime. They may come for 5 nights in Bangkok spend a thousand US$ and then vanish.

Just by ripping anything deemed 'unsightly' by a minority of well off people and slapping up a load of nice 5* hotels, condos, and shopping malls is not going to transform Bangkok into a major player in the financial World.

The big mistake is that they are simply aiming way too high. Were the current regime looking at encouraging the mid range frequent visitors, middle income Western retirees, middle class Thais etc who not only spend money in Thailand but will spend it there year after year, then that would then maybe provide some kind of solid foundation to build upon for the future.

Those who return year after year after year are not attracted to Bangkok because of shopping malls and 5* hotels. They are attracted by the women, the weather, the low cost of living, the nightlife, by the very spirit of Bangkok itself. Rip that away and replace it with plastic, chrome and air con in a city whose indigenous population can not support it and you're heading for disaster.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Well said Prof. Thailand will allways be a value for money, fun, and cultural experience destination.

Dillusions of grandiour.

[dek_shai_khing]

By likening Bangkok to Singapore and Hong Kong you are missing one key point.

Both Singapore and HK are (and were back then) major players in World business and had the financial infrastructure to support a move away from more earthy roots into the world of upmarket drinking joints, shopping malls, etc. They had an educated population with decent amounts of disposable income.

Rome was not built in a day. What you are witnessing now in Bangkok is the turning point towards what Singapore & Hong kong resembles today. If i had said the same about China 5-10 years ago would you have offered the same reply ? China stands more of an argument against your 'educated population with decent amounts of disposable income'. They have a reputed 30 million starving. Have you seen Shanghi lately ?

At the end of the day the tourists being aimed at by Thaksin's vision will probably only ever visit Bangkok once or twice in a lifetime. They may come for 5 nights in Bangkok spend a thousand US$ and then vanish.

I'm glad you used the word probablyand may because that statement has no foundation. One could argue the point of why Dubai is doing so well with tourist, its certainly not camels & deserts.

Just by ripping anything deemed 'unsightly' by a minority of well off people and slapping up a load of nice 5* hotels, condos, and shopping malls is not going to transform Bangkok into a major player in the financial World.

Maybe not. However what it will do is create an enviroment that will set it along the path of the asian countries such as the ones mentioned. Buildings already in motion such as The Paragon, the new airport, Central world Plaza. New luxury accomadation being built alone on the Sukhumvit is easy enough for any layman to see which way the winds blowing in Bangkok. Even yourself ProfessorFart made this reply to a thread on this same forum about exactly of what we are speaking of here, and i qoute you..

Sadly it looks like those days are numbered and BKK is heading the same way as Singapore; soon to be a procession of malls, faceless chain hotels, and 'upmarket' aircon bars with all the ambience of a goldfish bowl.

!!

Those who return year after year after year are not attracted to Bangkok because of shopping malls and 5* hotels. They are attracted by the women, the weather, the low cost of living, the nightlife, by the very spirit of Bangkok itself. Rip that away and replace it with plastic, chrome and air con in a city whose indigenous population can not support it and you're heading for disaster.

Well purely on that assumption, can you tell me who is filling these high end hotels that are already built, not to mention the ones being such as...well take a look at this site i never counted the luxury accomadation in progress, but it paints the real picture of whats happening in Bangkok. Now maybe these developers that have the forsight as to what Bangkok requires have got it wrong ! In which case they will have to tear them all down and maybe proceed with your definition of what Bangkok requires (woman,low cost of living,nightlife) I think we can agree there is room for those alongside Bangkoks move towards a better city, not only for us tourist but more importantly for Thai's that call it their country.

[cobra]

The Miami isn't as bad as you guys make out. OK, it's not luxury but for 600B a night in that location it has been a useful standby for me on several occasions when my preffered places have been full.

We all have our stand-by rat holes, we just hope we never have to use them,

(ie, the "Grand Inn" on Soi 3, ya got love an elevator that stops between floors

[taxexile]

sadly for some posters it seems , the world consists of more than just westerners.

thailand is becoming the premier destination for the increasingly money rich asian tour market .

these days an ever increasing proportion of male visitors to thailand come from japan , china and korea.

they too like their pleasures.

but rather than sit out at ramshackle slum bars molesting half naked slappers in a drunken circus act for all passers by to laught at , our asian friends would rather take their pleasures in private , discretely , off the street and preferably in establishments that look as if they might offer , although not always provide , some class.

hence the tendency to at least attempt get rid of the low rent shantytown atmosphere that exists along sukhumvit .

the japanese would rather commit hari kari than be seen to cavort drunkenly with hookers sitting out on the pavement mid day in the centre of a national capitol.

the show must go on , but more of it will be behind doors.

only white westerners (aussies and nz. included) would behave like that , to the embarrasment of not only themselves , but their hosts.

Edited November 8, 2005 by taxexile

[bkkjames]

The previous poster sounds like he found love at the afforementioned area of Bangkok before having his heart broken,,,now he hates the idea. As for just White folks sitting outside there (especially those from Oz or NZ), obviously he can't distinguish a drunk from West Yorkshire from one from Wellington. But then again I guess he hasn't been to Soi 22 either and seen the myriads of Japanese / Asians sitting around the bar beers looking for the youngest girls they can find.

As for taking it inside in order to save face in front of all the rich Japanese, Taiwanese, and Chinese tourists walking up and down Sukhumvit, I guess he means those really rich tour groups that come here on zero dollar tours and end up staying in Rachada for all the fine shopping and culture found there.

Sorry mate, I don't see that many Asian tour groups walking up in down Sukhumvit carry bags of Lous Vuitton or Burberry etc.

[taxexile]

wrong , wrong and wrong again.

i live on soi 22 , and you will rarely find an asian sitting , in full view of passing traffic and pedestrians , cavorting with bargirls, hostesses , prostitutes , call them what you will , in the way that westerners do.

and drunks , be they from west yorkshire or australia are all the same , obnoxious.

as for sukhumvit road , i love it just the way it is , its a freak show , a circus , the best free show in town.