They Are Completely Mad-They Really Really Are.....

[Chivas]

Next door Thai mother and husband have a 6 week old daughter born whilst I was here in Buriram.

Yesterday with the sun out, she gets on her motorbike (not auto) holding her 6 week baby to her chest, AND holding an umbrella with same hand to protect against the sun.

She motors down the soi all over the place one handed-Utter lunancy.

The colour of her skin more important than a 6 week old baby.

[Soutpeel]

This sort of stuff really makes me cringe...very sad, can never quite fathom whether its a case of not understanding the consequences, or not giving a sh*t, or the belief that all things are in the hands of Buddha, so what ever will be will be....

You see it time and time again, have seen similar things at traffic lights and there is a BiB standing right there...very sad

[llso]

As I have said before , after living more than 7 years in Thailand. Outside of BKk and married to an Issan Thai girl. It is truly a different world, With almost exact opposites of the way we as "Farangs" were raised to believe. Our logic dictates there is a cause and effect. The Thai and most Asian sentiment is one of what is meant to be is going to happen.

I always thinkmof a few things that stuck in my mind. It is always Mai pen Rai, until something happens. Then it is oh my god ,wailing and gnashing of teeth , how could this have happened.

When our daughter was very young,Infant. We were in my wife's home village and she was sitting on one of those raised portable Bamboo tables they have. I told my wife , be careful she might fall off. I was told oh mai pen rai , it's ok, don't worry. When she rolled and tumbled off the table and hit the ground ,everyone rushed over screaming and yelling , is she alright. Up until the point that something happened it as all mai pen rai.

I could go on and on with sim ilar instances of such behavior, but I think you get the point.

One time a young guy was killed on a motorbike where we lived. Everyone was very sad and commented his was his"time" to go. The fact that he was shit faced drunk , speeding down the highway had no bearing on the situation! It was his time to go.

LL

Edited August 27, 2011 by llso

[DP25]

She might be using the umbrella to protect the child from the sun. Not a good idea to drive like that, but it might not be because she's worried about getting a tan

[DEVATSAR]

How about the child's "right to life" ? Or am I being naive here

Its pathetic to see, Some people "don't care" until it goes tits up then watch them weeping and wailing.

Wheres buddha then?

[richard_smith237]

Total lack of concept of consequence....

[Geekfreaklover]

The buddha taught about mindfulness and carefulness; so lets not bring buddishm into what sounds like basic backwards ignorant behaviour by someone who knows no different because everybody else in the village is doing same same, ja?

Edited August 27, 2011 by Geekfreaklover

[Thakkar]

If you see two people on a bike, without helmets and the driver on his cellphone and think: "That's crazy"—you haven't been here long enough.

If you see three on a bike, no helmets, driver on cellphone and a poodle in the basket and think: "looks like there's room for one more person"—you've been here too long.

I'm somewhere in the middle.

T

[thaibeachlovers]

The buddha taught about mindfulness and carefulness; so lets not bring buddishm into what sounds like basic backwards ignorant behaviour by someone who knows no different because everybody else in the village is doing same same, ja?

Thank you for saying that. Far too many people are ready to ascribe all manners of wrong doing to Buddhism.

Stupidity is not part of Buddhism.

Anyway, since when were the Thais most of us know "real" Buddhists in the same sense as how many farangs are "real" Christians?

[Chivas]

She might be using the umbrella to protect the child from the sun. Not a good idea to drive like that, but it might not be because she's worried about getting a tan

No she walks everywhere with an umbrella without the baby.

I guess its our western values that make us mad to a certain extent ?

Without question with no warning you would have the child removed immediately if in the UK

Edited August 27, 2011 by Chivas

[Tonto21]

This lack of understanding the relationship between 'action and consequence' is not confined to Thailand. It is found though out the world, predominantly in poor countries among the poor uneducated.

I think foresight, in the form of 'action and consequence' is something we take for granted in the west, it is something we learn, sublimely at an early age, there is a limited time frame for the development within the brain to establish a neural network. Fail to stimulate the brain at an early age, (from birth to, it's believed around 4years of age) for example; a baby playing with a toy hammer, knocking pegs into holes learns pretty quick that smacking his head or hand is not a nice feeling……So he/she starts to develop, not only don't hit yourself with a hammer, but hitting yourself with anything hurts. Playing and experimenting at this stage in a babies deployment will provide a mass of stored examples in the brain that can be accessed and cross referenced, sublimely to flag danger.

Not only do people who have stunted 'action and consequence' ability's, they also have very little imagination, empathy and as such tend to be selfish, live hand to mouth and are childlike in there thinking…………….Can you think of anyone that fits this description?

This brain deployment at an early age is key to laying down the neural network that we will take for granted as we go through life. The window is only open for a few years, miss this window, and a person will struggle to make the 'action and consequence' connection. As adults these people are unable to cross reference a mental data bank, and draw on, (sublimely) information that would sound alarm bells

In the west we spend billion upon billion of $ on early learning toys. Why are western parents buying all these toys, is it because we, (westerners) are so astute? Well in the main it's because we can afford them, and we show our love in this way.

Poor families would struggle to provide toys and time to a very young child. The family unit is just trying to get enough money each dayto provide food, small babies are wrapped up and either strapped to someone's back or left in a room somewhere. They live there early years in a mental vacuum!

This does not only affect poor, under developed counties, this condition is not confined to the poor, take a baby, rich or poor, farang,Thai and starve it of stimulation; interaction, mental and physical in its early years and you'll have a person grow up who is not only a danger to themselves but to all around them.

[Soutpeel]

The buddha taught about mindfulness and carefulness; so lets not bring buddishm into what sounds like basic backwards ignorant behaviour by someone who knows no different because everybody else in the village is doing same same, ja?

But this goes beyond "what everyone else in the village is doing" behaviour's such as this, ie attitude towards driving cars etc is common place throughout the country, so one would have to question what is basis for these behaviours ?

1. Not understanding consquences of actions based purely at a logical cause/effect level

2. Not actually caring

3. Or a belief system which basically says "destiny" is pre-ordained and there is not much the indivual can do about it, so why worry.

Therefore one could have the opinion that "buddishm" or other belief systems could actually play a part in these behaviours, and the arguement for this is borne out in Thailand, as just about every vehicle has some sort of buddist figure in a prominent place in the car, as well as the fact that vehicles have been "blessed"

The intent here is not to start a "religious" debate, but to question why people do certain things....you have used the term "basic backwards ignorant behaviour "......based on 10 years driving on the roads in Thailand, based on your theroy, I could draw the conclusion that there must be lots of "backward ignorant" people in Thailand then...

[Geekfreaklover]

This lack of understanding the relationship between 'action and consequence' is not confined to Thailand. It is found though out the world, predominantly in poor countries among the poor uneducated.

I think foresight, in the form of 'action and consequence' is something we take for granted in the west, it is something we learn, sublimely at an early age, there is a limited time frame for the development within the brain to establish a neural network. Fail to stimulate the brain at an early age, (from birth to, it's believed around 4years of age) for example; a baby playing with a toy hammer, knocking pegs into holes learns pretty quick that smacking his head or hand is not a nice feeling……So he/she starts to develop, not only don't hit yourself with a hammer, but hitting yourself with anything hurts. Playing and experimenting at this stage in a babies deployment will provide a mass of stored examples in the brain that can be accessed and cross referenced, sublimely to flag danger.

Not only do people who have stunted 'action and consequence' ability's, they also have very little imagination, empathy and as such tend to be selfish, live hand to mouth and are childlike in there thinking…………….Can you think of anyone that fits this description?

This brain deployment at an early age is key to laying down the neural network that we will take for granted as we go through life. The window is only open for a few years, miss this window, and a person will struggle to make the 'action and consequence' connection. As adults these people are unable to cross reference a mental data bank, and draw on, (sublimely) information that would sound alarm bells

In the west we spend billion upon billion of $ on early learning toys. Why are western parents buying all these toys, is it because we, (westerners) are so astute? Well in the main it's because we can afford them, and we show our love in this way.

Poor families would struggle to provide toys and time to a very young child. The family unit is just trying to get enough money each dayto provide food, small babies are wrapped up and either strapped to someone's back or left in a room somewhere. They live there early years in a mental vacuum!

This does not only affect poor, under developed counties, this condition is not confined to the poor, take a baby, rich or poor, farang,Thai and starve it of stimulation; interaction, mental and physical in its early years and you'll have a person grow up who is not only a danger to themselves but to all around them.

Great post.

[Soutpeel]

She might be using the umbrella to protect the child from the sun. Not a good idea to drive like that, but it might not be because she's worried about getting a tan

I guess its our western values that make us mad to a certain extent ?

Without question with no warning you would have the child removed immediately if in the UK

If say in the UK, if all the "consequences" were removed from the equation, would the population of UK revert to similar behaviours, or would they do the "right thing".....

Is it a case of "our "western values" which make us "do the right thing" or is it a case of in the West there is a degree accountability/consequence for ones actions, which make us think twice before acting ?

[tartempion]

My GF rides her motorbike with a 6 months old baby in a baby carrying bag 1km to/from her parents house, no umbrella, always wears her helmet.

I will not allow her to ride further, nor will she.

Still fear what would happen if someone with a car/pick-up would hit them

[Geekfreaklover]

The buddha taught about mindfulness and carefulness; so lets not bring buddishm into what sounds like basic backwards ignorant behaviour by someone who knows no different because everybody else in the village is doing same same, ja?

But this goes beyond "what everyone else in the village is doing" behaviour's such as this, ie attitude towards driving cars etc is common place throughout the country, so one would have to question what is basis for these behaviours ?

1. Not understanding consquences of actions based purely at a logical cause/effect level

2. Not actually caring

3. Or a belief system which basically says "destiny" is pre-ordained and there is not much the indivual can do about it, so why worry.

Therefore one could have the opinion that "buddishm" or other belief systems could actually play a part in these behaviours, and the arguement for this is borne out in Thailand, as just about every vehicle has some sort of buddist figure in a prominent place in the car, as well as the fact that vehicles have been "blessed"

The intent here is not to start a "religious" debate, but to question why people do certain things....you have used the term "basic backwards ignorant behaviour "......based on 10 years driving on the roads in Thailand, based on your theroy, I could draw the conclusion that there must be lots of "backward ignorant" people in Thailand then...

It's about lack of education from parents and from schools, and in the case of driving the fact that there is no serious driving test, no speed cameras, no consistent policing.

It is not really about the belief that all Thai people think that everything is destined to be. In fact Thai Buddhism teaches that you should follow a mindful path and not harm yourself or others in order to be reborn a human.

Edited August 27, 2011 by Geekfreaklover

[kwonitoy]

Stupidity is not part of Buddhism

You've hit the ball out of the park with that statement.

And I will add to it, You can't fix Stupid

My wife and I have a newborn son, now two weeks old and doing very well.

I cannot count the number of absolute foolish/stupid things that people say and want my wife to do to ensure, good luck, long life, happiness, etc. Hold him over some magic smoke, I don't think so. Because he looks incrediable like me I must hold him in one hand and a knife in the other and walk up and down the steps three times or we will fight in later life. <deleted>???

Because he's a mirror image of me it must be the magic pills the doctor gave her, UHHH they were vitamins and calcium folks.

There is no common sense here and a tremendous amount of belief in anything any idiot spills out of his mouth.

I'm just thankfull that I'm here to run interferance with all the voodoo silliness, when someone has a bright idea I just say Look at him, he's not Thai he's falang so it won't work. Discusion over.

Ken

BTW: Great post Tonto, explains a lot, I know about how crucial the early brain development is and I think I've gotten it through to the wife also. If nothing else I'll just explain the learning/play aides as "sanuk"

Edited August 27, 2011 by kwonitoy

[StreetCowboy]

I suppose it highlights, by taking to ridiculous extremes, the foolishness of some of our fellow posters, who delight in being able to drive / ride "without fear of a cop hiding behind trees" in excess of the safe posted speed limit, or while not wearing a helmet, or while somewhat impaired through drink, or lack of insurance or whatever.

The reason that these regulations are enforced is because, like Thais, Western individuals cannot be trusted to accurately calculate the risks of accident, and partricularly not to factor in the risk to others and mitigate them, through cautious driving, insurance, and minimising their own medical and emergency costs.

SC

[Geekfreaklover]

Many people from the poorer regions of Thailand have these ancient animist belief systems (you know paying a monk money for the winning lottery numbers etc etc) which they find it difficult to explain because they don't understand it so they just say Buddha. And then the farang thinks that this Buddism thing must be stupid. He doesn't question it. Thinks its a taboo subject. I some Thais hat the word Buddha is like a keyword that lets them do certain things that would otherwise need an explanation. Sad, really.

Edited August 27, 2011 by Geekfreaklover

[NanLaew]

Total lack of concept of consequence....

...or Isaan ingenuity.

"I have to go to market and there's no-one to look after the baby. It's sunny too but I have a bike, two hands and an umbrella so off we go. I wonder what that weird farang is staring at?"

Maimee bhen hah.

[Soutpeel]

It's about lack of education from parents and from schools, and in the case of driving the fact that there is no serious driving test, no speed cameras, no consistent policing.

As a side bar...interesting report from the UK last week which basically says speed camera play no real role in decreasing the number of accidents on the road and in fact..its more of a revenue collecting exercise...

[Geekfreaklover]

It's about lack of education from parents and from schools, and in the case of driving the fact that there is no serious driving test, no speed cameras, no consistent policing.

As a side bar...interesting report from the UK last week which basically says speed camera play no real role in decreasing the number of accidents on the road and in fact..its more of a revenue collecting exercise...

Revenue. Collecting. Exercise

- The Thais would take to it like a duck to water. :jap:

[Soutpeel]

I cannot count the number of absolute foolish/stupid things that people say and want my wife to do to ensure, good luck, long life, happiness, etc. Hold him over some magic smoke, I don't think so. Because he looks incrediable like me I must hold him in one hand and a knife in the other and walk up and down the steps three times or we will fight in later life. <deleted>???

Because he's a mirror image of me it must be the magic pills the doctor gave her, UHHH they were vitamins and calcium folks.

There is no common sense here and a tremendous amount of belief in anything any idiot spills out of his mouth.

I'm just thankfull that I'm here to run interferance with all the voodoo silliness, when someone has a bright idea I just say Look at him, he's not Thai he's falang so it won't work. Discusion over.

Ken

BTW: Great post Tonto, explains a lot, I know about how crucial the early brain development is and I think I've gotten it through to the wife also. If nothing else I'll just explain the learning/play aides as "sanuk"

7 years bad luck if you break a mirror, black cats, spilling salt, dont walk under ladders, (actually this one makes sense) dont step on the cracks in the pavement, bad luckj comes in 3's etc etc....Western Voodoo silliness...think you are being rather harsh in singling out Thai superstition....Western culture is full of Voodoo silliness as well...

[Soutpeel]

Many people from the poorer regions of Thailand have these ancient animist belief systems (you know paying a monk money for the winning lottery numbers etc etc)

Would suggest this is not just restricted to the poorer regions of Thailand.....

[StreetCowboy]

It's about lack of education from parents and from schools, and in the case of driving the fact that there is no serious driving test, no speed cameras, no consistent policing.

As a side bar...interesting report from the UK last week which basically says speed camera play no real role in decreasing the number of accidents on the road and in fact..its more of a revenue collecting exercise...

My dangerous behaviour is quite acceptable, but others' is inconsiderate and foolish.

It always seems strange to me that the people who set speed limits are so unable to accurately gauge what is a reasonable and safe speed for a road, when most of us know better.

I guess they are just faceless bureaucrats who enjoy making life miserable for us, and all take the train to work. No doubt they obtained their positions through nepotism and political obsequiecy, unlike all my staff (with one or two exceptions)

SC

[NanLaew]

She might be using the umbrella to protect the child from the sun. Not a good idea to drive like that, but it might not be because she's worried about getting a tan

I guess its our western values that make us mad to a certain extent ?

Without question with no warning you would have the child removed immediately if in the UK

If say in the UK, if all the "consequences" were removed from the equation, would the population of UK revert to similar behaviours, or would they do the "right thing".....

Is it a case of "our "western values" which make us "do the right thing" or is it a case of in the West there is a degree accountability/consequence for ones actions, which make us think twice before acting ?

OK, look at the people that come here from the UK (and other countries), hire a motorbike mostly without experience and TOTALLY without having a motorbike license. There's your accountability/consequence argument shot all to buggery. Also handily defeats some others fragile claims that it's all down to a poor education.

When you are not at home in the CCTV land of the nanny state, you play like the locals. Nothing to do with doing the right thing anymore, it's about 'while in Rome' and not having to worry that the local Council is going to take away your kid because THEY think you are taking an uncontrolled risk.

Note also that there's not a huge groundswell of LOCAL Thai opinion to pressure the government or police to stamp out this foolishness and potentially costly waste of life. This and other things only concern those that really miss their nanny state back home.

[Soutpeel]

The buddha taught about mindfulness and carefulness; so lets not bring buddishm into what sounds like basic backwards ignorant behaviour by someone who knows no different because everybody else in the village is doing same same, ja?

Thank you for saying that. Far too many people are ready to ascribe all manners of wrong doing to Buddhism.

Stupidity is not part of Buddhism.

Anyway, since when were the Thais most of us know "real" Buddhists in the same sense as how many farangs are "real" Christians?

Would think you would be opening a can of worms

What is true Buddhism and in the same vein as what is true Christianity ?......its what ever version of the doctrine the indivual concerned beleives it is, its their interpretation or perception...there is not right or wrong "versions"

[kwonitoy]

I cannot count the number of absolute foolish/stupid things that people say and want my wife to do to ensure, good luck, long life, happiness, etc. Hold him over some magic smoke, I don't think so. Because he looks incrediable like me I must hold him in one hand and a knife in the other and walk up and down the steps three times or we will fight in later life. <deleted>???

Because he's a mirror image of me it must be the magic pills the doctor gave her, UHHH they were vitamins and calcium folks.

There is no common sense here and a tremendous amount of belief in anything any idiot spills out of his mouth.

I'm just thankfull that I'm here to run interferance with all the voodoo silliness, when someone has a bright idea I just say Look at him, he's not Thai he's falang so it won't work. Discusion over.

Ken

BTW: Great post Tonto, explains a lot, I know about how crucial the early brain development is and I think I've gotten it through to the wife also. If nothing else I'll just explain the learning/play aides as "sanuk"

7 years bad luck if you break a mirror, black cats, spilling salt, dont walk under ladders, (actually this one makes sense) dont step on the cracks in the pavement, bad luckj comes in 3's etc etc....Western Voodoo silliness...think you are being rather harsh in singling out Thai superstition....Western culture is full of Voodoo silliness as well...

I guess I'm prejudiced, but I don't buy into Western voodoo either

Maybe it's the new father in me, but I'll keep running interfernce for my boy.

[F1fanatic]

Stupidity is not part of Buddhism

You've hit the ball out of the park with that statement.

And I will add to it, You can't fix Stupid

My wife and I have a newborn son, now two weeks old and doing very well.

I cannot count the number of absolute foolish/stupid things that people say and want my wife to do to ensure, good luck, long life, happiness, etc. Hold him over some magic smoke, I don't think so. Because he looks incrediable like me I must hold him in one hand and a knife in the other and walk up and down the steps three times or we will fight in later life. <deleted>???

Because he's a mirror image of me it must be the magic pills the doctor gave her, UHHH they were vitamins and calcium folks.

There is no common sense here and a tremendous amount of belief in anything any idiot spills out of his mouth.

I'm just thankfull that I'm here to run interferance with all the voodoo silliness, when someone has a bright idea I just say Look at him, he's not Thai he's falang so it won't work. Discusion over.

Ken

BTW: Great post Tonto, explains a lot, I know about how crucial the early brain development is and I think I've gotten it through to the wife also. If nothing else I'll just explain the learning/play aides as "sanuk"

It has little/nothing to do with 'play aides/toys' . Surely most of us here were born when toys were few and far between as our parents couldn't afford v many and, 'learning' toys had not yet been recognised as a money-spinner....

Instead, our parents talked and played with us. My father taught me to read at the age of 4 - after a long day at work. Until I learnt to read, I was read bedtime stories every night as were most Western children. It stimulated our imagination, meaning we didn't need toys - we were able to make up our own fun and games.

[thaicbr]

Total lack of concept of consequence....

...or Isaan ingenuity.

"I have to go to market and there's no-one to look after the baby. It's sunny too but I have a bike, two hands and an umbrella so off we go. I wonder what that weird farang is staring at?"

Maimee bhen hah.

accept thats dumb

The northern hill tribe people would actually put the baby in carrying sling and then wear a big hat, both hands on the handlebars... thats Ingenuity... but Thai people say hilltribe people are dumb...go figure