A Good Day With A Thai Guy :)

[LJW]

Today, I was feeling kind of bored, so I decided to go and explore and old road in Phrao... So I'm driving along and come to good sized river with truck tracks leading into it.... Which I interpreted as being safe to cross, but their was a tractor in the way.. This (drunk) guy wakes up, and I yell at him, "Is it safe?" He motions me to come on, while looking down in the river with a sad look on his face... I figured what the hell and drove towards him, then I went down hard onto the rocks, and speeded up till i was on the other side...I made it

About 5 kilos on, I ran into another alleged crossing...

I was a bit concerned because nobody was around, and if I got stuck it would be a problem for me. I decided to just go for it, and I made it across safely About 10 more kilos, and another river crossing, but this one did not have any tire tracks, and on the left was a huge, well built motorcycle crossing. There was a guy crossing it on his bike and I waited to ask him if I could cross there in my truck... He said, "Sure, no problem", so since I am someone who likes trusting people , I went across with no worries (well a little bit)... When I came back a couple of hours later, I crossed and promptly got stuck in the middle of the river! Then it started raining, and i thought about the river rising and what would happen to me since I can not walk... I'm in a very isolated place with nobody around, I even tried calling my house but there wasn't any cell service. So I waited and waited, planning to sleep in the car which kinda felt like a waterbed

After a couple of hours, this Thai man shows up in his fancy 4 wheel drive and I tell him I'm stuck... He says, "I will have you out in a few minutes" He gets out and plays with a rope forever..

Anyway, after a while, he gets the job done and I am out of the water.

But when I offered him some money (1,000 baht), he politely said no, even after the second time I offered. He had spent a lot of time with me helping, and I thought he deserved it.

Good Guy, I thought

[meadish_sweetball]

Nice story, thank you for sharing. Just goes to show there are still good people out there.

[orang37]

Sawasdee Khrup, Khun LJW,

Glad to hear a positive story !

best, ~o:37;

[meadish_sweetball]

One troll post removed.

[Priceless]

On occasions like this I wish there were a 'Like'-button on ThaiVisa. A really nice story, LJW. Thank you for sharing.

/ Priceless

[SteeleJoe]

I'm not flamin' and it seems clear your a decent sort but I write this because I'd like to point out what I think sometimes happens (paternalism? or just a unconscious sense that everyone has price and wants it to be paid) with even decent folks with the best of intentions...

Why offer him money? Especially given he was driving a "fancy 4WD"? Do you think maybe your perception is a bit skewed? Even the title of the OP suggests something, given that you felt the need to specify that it was a Thai --but this giving money...

Most Thais I know -- maybe all of them but ESPECIALLY the ones with money (even merely enough to drive a fancy 4WD) -- would be saddened and/or offended to be offered money for helping out.

Would you have offered someone that money in your own country or a Farang here? Really?

BTW

It's a nice thing but hardly surprising, is it? I've got many, many stories of Thais helping out - some in a really big ways.

Edited August 29, 2011 by SteeleJoe

[pete66]

Good story. Nice pics as well. We should all be prepared to post stories of kindness and good will, not just when we come across someone we don't like. Duly noted!

[pete66]

I'm not flamin' and it seems clear your a decent sort but I write this because I'd like to point out what i think sometimes happens to even decent folks with the best of intentions...

Why offer him money? Especially given he was driving a "fancy 4WD"? Do you think maybe your perception is a bit skewed? Even the title of the OP suggests somethig, given that you felt the need to specify that it was a Thai --but this giving money. Most Thais I know -- maybe all of them but ESPECIALLY the ones with money (even merely enough to drive a fancy 4WD) -- would be saddened and/or offended to be offered money for helping out.

Would you have offered someone that money in your own country or a Farang here? Really?

I don't agree at all. Thais would not at all be offended by being offered money for this. Whether they accept it or not as down to them. But to not offer something in the first place could be seen as ungrateful, that you don't respect what they have done to you, that you aren't "equal" if you were.

I agree it is different in the west. People are too embarassed to offer money to each other for such things....

I remember a couple of years ago a next-door neighbour offered to take my son around looking for a school, as we have just moved to the area. I said "fine, thanks very much" in my farang way. And she drove us to two schools in her nice car, and got my son into the second one. Again, I said thank-you very nicely and thought that was all that was required, thinking we had created some kind of "friendship" and I would naturally pay her back with a similar gesture whenever it was needed.

Then I wondered why the neighbour didn't want to talk to me any more. I asked my gf and she said it was because the neighbour was offended and called me "khii niaw" because I didn't offer to pay for the petrol for the visit to a couple of schools.

The neighbour had money, she had a very nice car and 6M baht home. And she was just a normal Thai, trying to do a favour for a neighbour. But as it turns out, she really expected something apart from "thanks" back in return. Even though I had never asked her for the favour, she offered it herself.

I guess every culture is different in stuff like that.

[Priceless]

I'm not flamin' and it seems clear your a decent sort but I write this because I'd like to point out what I think sometimes happens (paternalism? or just a unconscious sense that everyone has price and wants it to be paid) with even decent folks with the best of intentions...

Why offer him money? Especially given he was driving a "fancy 4WD"? Do you think maybe your perception is a bit skewed? Even the title of the OP suggests something, given that you felt the need to specify that it was a Thai --but this giving money...

Most Thais I know -- maybe all of them but ESPECIALLY the ones with money (even merely enough to drive a fancy 4WD) -- would be saddened and/or offended to be offered money for helping out.

Would you have offered someone that money in your own country or a Farang here? Really?

BTW

It's a nice thing but hardly surprising, is it? I've got many, many stories of Thais helping out - some in a really big ways.

I cannot speak for LJW, but I for one would have offered some token of appreciation in my own country as well. Where I come from, that is called "manners".

Furthermore, I think that LJW with more than 25 years in Thailand, and being a fluent Thai speaker, is quite able to judge the proper course of action in most situations here.

/ Priceless

[Dag]

Geeez...cannot say anything here......

I would prefer to not get the help then if it was expected of me to offer them money for a service they offered to help out with.....its called kindness and doing something for someone with no expectations in return....or have you lot forgotten such things ?? dam_n sure i have not and i am not that old either.

I agree with SJ

[SteeleJoe]

I'm not flamin' and it seems clear your a decent sort but I write this because I'd like to point out what i think sometimes happens to even decent folks with the best of intentions...

Why offer him money? Especially given he was driving a "fancy 4WD"? Do you think maybe your perception is a bit skewed? Even the title of the OP suggests somethig, given that you felt the need to specify that it was a Thai --but this giving money. Most Thais I know -- maybe all of them but ESPECIALLY the ones with money (even merely enough to drive a fancy 4WD) -- would be saddened and/or offended to be offered money for helping out.

Would you have offered someone that money in your own country or a Farang here? Really?

I don't agree at all. Thais would not at all be offended by being offered money for this. Whether they accept it or not as down to them. But to not offer something in the first place could be seen as ungrateful, that you don't respect what they have done to you, that you aren't "equal" if you were.

I agree it is different in the west. People are too embarassed to offer money to each other for such things....

I remember a couple of years ago a next-door neighbour offered to take my son around looking for a school, as we have just moved to the area. I said "fine, thanks very much" in my farang way. And she drove us to two schools in her nice car, and got my son into the second one. Again, I said thank-you very nicely and thought that was all that was required, thinking we had created some kind of "friendship" and I would naturally pay her back with a similar gesture whenever it was needed.

Then I wondered why the neighbour didn't want to talk to me any more. I asked my gf and she said it was because the neighbour was offended and called me "khii niaw" because I didn't offer to pay for the petrol for the visit to a couple of schools.

The neighbour had money, she had a very nice car and 6M baht home. And she was just a normal Thai, trying to do a favour for a neighbour. But as it turns out, she really expected something apart from "thanks" back in return. Even though I had never asked her for the favour, she offered it herself.

I guess every culture is different in stuff like that.

Sorry but in my experience that wouldn't happen with any decent sincere Thai -- as most have been with me.

[CMSteve]

I agree that offering cash in some situations can be somewhat debasing to the receiver, especially if they are rich or no need. But in this case, I'm assuming there was not much else to offer. I think we can all agree that it is good manners to offer something in gratitude for his help, and who knows, if LJW had a nice lunch to share or coffee, etc, maybe that would have been offered.

and yes, I've had instances back in the states where passer's by helped me get my car out of the snow, I offered cash as it was all i had to offer.

and yes again, not so surprising. A person is generally good hearted, Thai or otherwise. good story though...

I'm not flamin' and it seems clear your a decent sort but I write this because I'd like to point out what I think sometimes happens (paternalism? or just a unconscious sense that everyone has price and wants it to be paid) with even decent folks with the best of intentions...

Why offer him money? Especially given he was driving a "fancy 4WD"? Do you think maybe your perception is a bit skewed? Even the title of the OP suggests something, given that you felt the need to specify that it was a Thai --but this giving money...

Most Thais I know -- maybe all of them but ESPECIALLY the ones with money (even merely enough to drive a fancy 4WD) -- would be saddened and/or offended to be offered money for helping out.

Would you have offered someone that money in your own country or a Farang here? Really?

BTW

It's a nice thing but hardly surprising, is it? I've got many, many stories of Thais helping out - some in a really big ways.

[SteeleJoe]

I'm not flamin' and it seems clear your a decent sort but I write this because I'd like to point out what I think sometimes happens (paternalism? or just a unconscious sense that everyone has price and wants it to be paid) with even decent folks with the best of intentions...

Why offer him money? Especially given he was driving a "fancy 4WD"? Do you think maybe your perception is a bit skewed? Even the title of the OP suggests something, given that you felt the need to specify that it was a Thai --but this giving money...

Most Thais I know -- maybe all of them but ESPECIALLY the ones with money (even merely enough to drive a fancy 4WD) -- would be saddened and/or offended to be offered money for helping out.

Would you have offered someone that money in your own country or a Farang here? Really?

BTW

It's a nice thing but hardly surprising, is it? I've got many, many stories of Thais helping out - some in a really big ways.

I cannot speak for LJW, but I for one would have offered some token of appreciation in my own country as well. Where I come from, that is called "manners".

Furthermore, I think that LJW with more than 25 years in Thailand, and being a fluent Thai speaker, is quite able to judge the proper course of action in most situations here.

/ Priceless

Where I come from, people know what "manners" are -- and it isn't confined to handing out cash when some stops to help you out in a jam. I simply can't imagine offering $30 to someone driving a nice vehicle (or possibly anyone at all) for helping me -- especially here as I think it could easily be seen as (and perhaps quite accurately) gan doo took.

And I have no opinion on whether LJW is able to judge the proper course of action in most situations here but I've been here 27 years, been studying Thailand and its culture a bit longer than that (since first visiting for 15 months) and speaking Thai fluently for 25. So perhaps my opinion is equally valid?

EDIT TO ADD:

CMSteve just reminded me -- I was offered money a couple times when I used to pull people out of snow -- and was glad to take it!

But I was a broke 17 year old living on my own. Not a social equal or superior (in Thai terms) to the people offering...but point taken nonetheless about offering what you have. Me I think I would have offered my card and offered to repay the kindness if I ever could or something like that.

If he had a less impressive vehicle, I might have thought differently and probably would have offered. Once.

Edited August 29, 2011 by SteeleJoe

[pete66]

Geeez...cannot say anything here......

I would prefer to not get the help then if it was expected of me to offer them money for a service they offered to help out with.....its called kindness and doing something for someone with no expectations in return....or have you lot forgotten such things ?? dam_n sure i have not and i am not that old either.

I agree with SJ

Sure, but that is down to the person doing the good deed to decide. If they turn any offer down, that proves they are doing a good deed. If you don't offer anything, that doesn't give them the chance to demonstrate it.

Sorry, the idea that any Thai would be offended with an offer (even it was just some food, a present, an invitation to dinner, not necessarily cash), is just plain wrong. I found out to my cost that "present giving" and reciprocation thereof are very much part of Thai culture. Part of the "not losing face" concept.

Once I was in a taxi with my gf and someone left their bag behind. Rather than leave it to the taxi driver to sort out (cough cough) we took it on ourselves to contact the person ourselves. And so it cost us another taxi journey to meet the person and give them the bag back.

Did they offer us money? Of course they did!! Did we accept? Of course we didn't!!

That's all that normally happens with Thais, to show you are grateful (beyond a one word thank-you), and then to show in return the demonstration of gratefulness was all that is needed.

Other cultures may vary!!

Edited August 29, 2011 by pete66

[SteeleJoe]

Sorry, the idea that any Thai would be offended with an offer (even it was just some food, a present, an invitation to dinner, not necessarily cash), is just plain wrong.

Wow. You speak with impressive authority! I like the way you can speak in such absolutes about all Thais and how your view is categorically more accurate than my own (just because you say so, I guess).

By the way, food, a present, or an invitation to dinner would all be very different and I don't know any Thai that would be offended by such offers or gifts.

[SteeleJoe]

I'm not flamin' and it seems clear your a decent sort but I write this because I'd like to point out what i think sometimes happens to even decent folks with the best of intentions...

Why offer him money? Especially given he was driving a "fancy 4WD"? Do you think maybe your perception is a bit skewed? Even the title of the OP suggests somethig, given that you felt the need to specify that it was a Thai --but this giving money. Most Thais I know -- maybe all of them but ESPECIALLY the ones with money (even merely enough to drive a fancy 4WD) -- would be saddened and/or offended to be offered money for helping out.

Would you have offered someone that money in your own country or a Farang here? Really?

I don't agree at all. Thais would not at all be offended by being offered money for this. Whether they accept it or not as down to them. But to not offer something in the first place could be seen as ungrateful, that you don't respect what they have done to you, that you aren't "equal" if you were.

I agree it is different in the west. People are too embarassed to offer money to each other for such things....

I remember a couple of years ago a next-door neighbour offered to take my son around looking for a school, as we have just moved to the area. I said "fine, thanks very much" in my farang way. And she drove us to two schools in her nice car, and got my son into the second one. Again, I said thank-you very nicely and thought that was all that was required, thinking we had created some kind of "friendship" and I would naturally pay her back with a similar gesture whenever it was needed.

Then I wondered why the neighbour didn't want to talk to me any more. I asked my gf and she said it was because the neighbour was offended and called me "khii niaw" because I didn't offer to pay for the petrol for the visit to a couple of schools.

The neighbour had money, she had a very nice car and 6M baht home. And she was just a normal Thai, trying to do a favour for a neighbour. But as it turns out, she really expected something apart from "thanks" back in return. Even though I had never asked her for the favour, she offered it herself.

I guess every culture is different in stuff like that.

Just realized I read this wrong the first time. Sorry.

I think you were "khii niaw" for not offering. She spent money (which the driver that helped LJW did not)). I would have offered in the US

Edited August 29, 2011 by SteeleJoe

[pete66]

I'm not flamin' and it seems clear your a decent sort but I write this because I'd like to point out what i think sometimes happens to even decent folks with the best of intentions...

Why offer him money? Especially given he was driving a "fancy 4WD"? Do you think maybe your perception is a bit skewed? Even the title of the OP suggests somethig, given that you felt the need to specify that it was a Thai --but this giving money. Most Thais I know -- maybe all of them but ESPECIALLY the ones with money (even merely enough to drive a fancy 4WD) -- would be saddened and/or offended to be offered money for helping out.

Would you have offered someone that money in your own country or a Farang here? Really?

I don't agree at all. Thais would not at all be offended by being offered money for this. Whether they accept it or not as down to them. But to not offer something in the first place could be seen as ungrateful, that you don't respect what they have done to you, that you aren't "equal" if you were.

I agree it is different in the west. People are too embarassed to offer money to each other for such things....

I remember a couple of years ago a next-door neighbour offered to take my son around looking for a school, as we have just moved to the area. I said "fine, thanks very much" in my farang way. And she drove us to two schools in her nice car, and got my son into the second one. Again, I said thank-you very nicely and thought that was all that was required, thinking we had created some kind of "friendship" and I would naturally pay her back with a similar gesture whenever it was needed.

Then I wondered why the neighbour didn't want to talk to me any more. I asked my gf and she said it was because the neighbour was offended and called me "khii niaw" because I didn't offer to pay for the petrol for the visit to a couple of schools.

The neighbour had money, she had a very nice car and 6M baht home. And she was just a normal Thai, trying to do a favour for a neighbour. But as it turns out, she really expected something apart from "thanks" back in return. Even though I had never asked her for the favour, she offered it herself.

I guess every culture is different in stuff like that.

Just realized I read this wrong the first time. Sorry.

I think you were "khii niaw" for not offering. She spent money (which the driver that helped LJW did not)). I would have offered in the US

Yeah, I think you are right as well, I certainly regret it (there were circumstances at the time which made me think I shouldn't offer anything. Someone from a local restaurant had offered to take me but my gf said don't go with them because they would expect payment in return, so I didn't, and therefore assumed the neighbour didn't expect anything either).

But of course the neighbour being a Thai lady, rather than addressing the issue, she just kinda disappeared on me, and it took months for me to know why.

Live and learn. What I have learnt is always offer something in return. Doesn't have to be cash. Anything at all is good .......

I have to say though, in the UK we really would just do this stuff for nothing, but I guess that has always just been family and close friends, where money almost never changes hands. Thais are different, more "practical" if you will.

[CMSteve]

Am I reading this correctly? Your GF knew you offended your neighbor called you cheap and never told you???

BTW, i don't think you should regret it. All she wanted from you is cash. Did she wait long enough for you to return the favor before calling you cheap??? Unfortunatly, she's your neighbor, otherwise, i wouldn't want here anywhere around me or the fam....

I'm not flamin' and it seems clear your a decent sort but I write this because I'd like to point out what i think sometimes happens to even decent folks with the best of intentions...

Why offer him money? Especially given he was driving a "fancy 4WD"? Do you think maybe your perception is a bit skewed? Even the title of the OP suggests somethig, given that you felt the need to specify that it was a Thai --but this giving money. Most Thais I know -- maybe all of them but ESPECIALLY the ones with money (even merely enough to drive a fancy 4WD) -- would be saddened and/or offended to be offered money for helping out.

Would you have offered someone that money in your own country or a Farang here? Really?

I don't agree at all. Thais would not at all be offended by being offered money for this. Whether they accept it or not as down to them. But to not offer something in the first place could be seen as ungrateful, that you don't respect what they have done to you, that you aren't "equal" if you were.

I agree it is different in the west. People are too embarassed to offer money to each other for such things....

I remember a couple of years ago a next-door neighbour offered to take my son around looking for a school, as we have just moved to the area. I said "fine, thanks very much" in my farang way. And she drove us to two schools in her nice car, and got my son into the second one. Again, I said thank-you very nicely and thought that was all that was required, thinking we had created some kind of "friendship" and I would naturally pay her back with a similar gesture whenever it was needed.

Then I wondered why the neighbour didn't want to talk to me any more. I asked my gf and she said it was because the neighbour was offended and called me "khii niaw" because I didn't offer to pay for the petrol for the visit to a couple of schools.

The neighbour had money, she had a very nice car and 6M baht home. And she was just a normal Thai, trying to do a favour for a neighbour. But as it turns out, she really expected something apart from "thanks" back in return. Even though I had never asked her for the favour, she offered it herself.

I guess every culture is different in stuff like that.

Just realized I read this wrong the first time. Sorry.

I think you were "khii niaw" for not offering. She spent money (which the driver that helped LJW did not)). I would have offered in the US

Yeah, I think you are right as well, I certainly regret it (there were circumstances at the time which made me think I shouldn't offer anything. Someone from a local restaurant had offered to take me but my gf said don't go with them because they would expect payment in return, so I didn't, and therefore assumed the neighbour didn't expect anything either).

But of course the neighbour being a Thai lady, rather than addressing the issue, she just kinda disappeared on me, and it took months for me to know why.

Live and learn. What I have learnt is always offer something in return. Doesn't have to be cash. Anything at all is good .......

I have to say though, in the UK we really would just do this stuff for nothing, but I guess that has always just been family and close friends, where money almost never changes hands. Thais are different, more "practical" if you will.

[Thakkar]

I'm not flamin' and it seems clear your a decent sort but I write this because I'd like to point out what i think sometimes happens to even decent folks with the best of intentions...

Why offer him money? Especially given he was driving a "fancy 4WD"? Do you think maybe your perception is a bit skewed? Even the title of the OP suggests somethig, given that you felt the need to specify that it was a Thai --but this giving money. Most Thais I know -- maybe all of them but ESPECIALLY the ones with money (even merely enough to drive a fancy 4WD) -- would be saddened and/or offended to be offered money for helping out.

Would you have offered someone that money in your own country or a Farang here? Really?

I don't agree at all. Thais would not at all be offended by being offered money for this. Whether they accept it or not as down to them. But to not offer something in the first place could be seen as ungrateful, that you don't respect what they have done to you, that you aren't "equal" if you were.

I agree it is different in the west. People are too embarassed to offer money to each other for such things....

I remember a couple of years ago a next-door neighbour offered to take my son around looking for a school, as we have just moved to the area. I said "fine, thanks very much" in my farang way. And she drove us to two schools in her nice car, and got my son into the second one. Again, I said thank-you very nicely and thought that was all that was required, thinking we had created some kind of "friendship" and I would naturally pay her back with a similar gesture whenever it was needed.

Then I wondered why the neighbour didn't want to talk to me any more. I asked my gf and she said it was because the neighbour was offended and called me "khii niaw" because I didn't offer to pay for the petrol for the visit to a couple of schools.

The neighbour had money, she had a very nice car and 6M baht home. And she was just a normal Thai, trying to do a favour for a neighbour. But as it turns out, she really expected something apart from "thanks" back in return. Even though I had never asked her for the favour, she offered it herself.

I guess every culture is different in stuff like that.

Speaking to the situation with your neighbor, I don't know why your neighbor reacted as you say. Perhaps it's just your perception and there's nothing to it. Your gf's explanation is just your gf's explanation.

In any case, my response would've been to present the neighbor with an nice ice cream cake (because, let's face it, who doesn't like ice cream cake?) or a decent bottle of wine. I've done favors for Thai neighbors and this has been their customary way of expressing thanks: Fruit baskets, snacks for the kids, and once, a box of fancy breakfast cereal.

Mrs. T always buys souvenirs on our trips to keep aside for presenting as small 'thank you' gestures as needed. Social interactions go smoothly with judicious greasing. It's not about money; it's about showing appreciation through thoughtful gestures. Even in the West, a simple 'thank you' is a bit of a cop-out; it stops the relationship in it's tracks and there is no progress.

T

[Thakkar]

I don't think there are any absolutes here and one can't say for sure that LJW's response was inappropriate. One has to consider that the response could have been as much about his relief and gratefulness for being helped out of a very sticky bind. In that specific situation, he went with his instincts and only those who know him well could know whether his instincts tend to be correct.

Joe Steels suggestion of handing a name card and offering unspecified future help seems like a good template till you consider that it might be a little too open-ended. I'd modify that by specifying an offer for dinner or something.

T

[pete66]

I'm not flamin' and it seems clear your a decent sort but I write this because I'd like to point out what i think sometimes happens to even decent folks with the best of intentions...

Why offer him money? Especially given he was driving a "fancy 4WD"? Do you think maybe your perception is a bit skewed? Even the title of the OP suggests somethig, given that you felt the need to specify that it was a Thai --but this giving money. Most Thais I know -- maybe all of them but ESPECIALLY the ones with money (even merely enough to drive a fancy 4WD) -- would be saddened and/or offended to be offered money for helping out.

Would you have offered someone that money in your own country or a Farang here? Really?

I don't agree at all. Thais would not at all be offended by being offered money for this. Whether they accept it or not as down to them. But to not offer something in the first place could be seen as ungrateful, that you don't respect what they have done to you, that you aren't "equal" if you were.

I agree it is different in the west. People are too embarassed to offer money to each other for such things....

I remember a couple of years ago a next-door neighbour offered to take my son around looking for a school, as we have just moved to the area. I said "fine, thanks very much" in my farang way. And she drove us to two schools in her nice car, and got my son into the second one. Again, I said thank-you very nicely and thought that was all that was required, thinking we had created some kind of "friendship" and I would naturally pay her back with a similar gesture whenever it was needed.

Then I wondered why the neighbour didn't want to talk to me any more. I asked my gf and she said it was because the neighbour was offended and called me "khii niaw" because I didn't offer to pay for the petrol for the visit to a couple of schools.

The neighbour had money, she had a very nice car and 6M baht home. And she was just a normal Thai, trying to do a favour for a neighbour. But as it turns out, she really expected something apart from "thanks" back in return. Even though I had never asked her for the favour, she offered it herself.

I guess every culture is different in stuff like that.

Speaking to the situation with your neighbor, I don't know why your neighbor reacted as you say. Perhaps it's just your perception and there's nothing to it. Your gf's explanation is just your gf's explanation.

In any case, my response would've been to present the neighbor with an nice ice cream cake (because, let's face it, who doesn't like ice cream cake?) or a decent bottle of wine. I've done favors for Thai neighbors and this has been their customary way of expressing thanks: Fruit baskets, snacks for the kids, and once, a box of fancy breakfast cereal.

Mrs. T always buys souvenirs on our trips to keep aside for presenting as small 'thank you' gestures as needed. Social interactions go smoothly with judicious greasing. It's not about money; it's about showing appreciation through thoughtful gestures. Even in the West, a simple 'thank you' is a bit of a cop-out; it stops the relationship in it's tracks and there is no progress.

T

I don't about "perception", but yeah, my perception was definitely she blanked me after that, because she did It was only when I decided to get to the bottom of it with my gf that she let me know what happened. My gf didn't want to make a thing of it at the time, who knows where it would have led. Just 2 doors down 2 Thai neighbours were at it cats and dogs for months on end, police were called several times, and there was a muubaan security guard posted outside their houses most days. You can change your wife, but not your neighbour.

I agree about the presents etc. that is exactly the right way of going. And my gf did indeed give stuff to her neighbour, but maybe because it hadn't come from me directly, or maybe she just didn't like me, I don't know, it didn't make any difference, she never talked to me again.

Its ok. I don't live there anymore. I was just relaying an account of how I learnt that Thais expect the "greasing", so if someone helped me out significantly on the road I would now expect to offer them something in return.

[SteeleJoe]

I don't think there are any absolutes here and one can't say for sure that LJW's response was inappropriate. One has to consider that the response could have been as much about his relief and gratefulness for being helped out of a very sticky bind. In that specific situation, he went with his instincts and only those who know him well could know whether his instincts tend to be correct.

Joe Steels suggestion of handing a name card and offering unspecified future help seems like a good template till you consider that it might be a little too open-ended. I'd modify that by specifying an offer for dinner or something.

T

Thing is A) the person would most likely not ever take you up on the offer (especially someone who was apparently not in need financially) and if they did contact you, it's up to you whether you extend whatever favor the request in return. The polite -- and no doubt sincere -- gesture of appreciation was made and if they do happen to ask for something (probably too kreng jai or just not anymore interested than you ate in turning a brie encounter into some sort of relationship) than you may judge whether it is appropriate or not and if it isn't, you need feel no obligation to accede to it.

As for the neighbor. I think the guy should have offered. I think it would have quite ugly were she to accept. I think him not offering makes him look bad - but that she would stop speaking to him...well, if that's all there is to the story (and not some other transgression, inadvertent or otherwise), she's not a very nice person. Which is what I was trying to say in my first comment about her.

EDIT to ADD:

I don't think there any absolutes here either. It wasn't me who claimed there were.

Edited August 29, 2011 by SteeleJoe

[Thakkar]

I'm not flamin' and it seems clear your a decent sort but I write this because I'd like to point out what i think sometimes happens to even decent folks with the best of intentions...

Why offer him money? Especially given he was driving a "fancy 4WD"? Do you think maybe your perception is a bit skewed? Even the title of the OP suggests somethig, given that you felt the need to specify that it was a Thai --but this giving money. Most Thais I know -- maybe all of them but ESPECIALLY the ones with money (even merely enough to drive a fancy 4WD) -- would be saddened and/or offended to be offered money for helping out.

Would you have offered someone that money in your own country or a Farang here? Really?

I don't agree at all. Thais would not at all be offended by being offered money for this. Whether they accept it or not as down to them. But to not offer something in the first place could be seen as ungrateful, that you don't respect what they have done to you, that you aren't "equal" if you were.

I agree it is different in the west. People are too embarassed to offer money to each other for such things....

I remember a couple of years ago a next-door neighbour offered to take my son around looking for a school, as we have just moved to the area. I said "fine, thanks very much" in my farang way. And she drove us to two schools in her nice car, and got my son into the second one. Again, I said thank-you very nicely and thought that was all that was required, thinking we had created some kind of "friendship" and I would naturally pay her back with a similar gesture whenever it was needed.

Then I wondered why the neighbour didn't want to talk to me any more. I asked my gf and she said it was because the neighbour was offended and called me "khii niaw" because I didn't offer to pay for the petrol for the visit to a couple of schools.

The neighbour had money, she had a very nice car and 6M baht home. And she was just a normal Thai, trying to do a favour for a neighbour. But as it turns out, she really expected something apart from "thanks" back in return. Even though I had never asked her for the favour, she offered it herself.

I guess every culture is different in stuff like that.

Speaking to the situation with your neighbor, I don't know why your neighbor reacted as you say. Perhaps it's just your perception and there's nothing to it. Your gf's explanation is just your gf's explanation.

In any case, my response would've been to present the neighbor with an nice ice cream cake (because, let's face it, who doesn't like ice cream cake?) or a decent bottle of wine. I've done favors for Thai neighbors and this has been their customary way of expressing thanks: Fruit baskets, snacks for the kids, and once, a box of fancy breakfast cereal.

Mrs. T always buys souvenirs on our trips to keep aside for presenting as small 'thank you' gestures as needed. Social interactions go smoothly with judicious greasing. It's not about money; it's about showing appreciation through thoughtful gestures. Even in the West, a simple 'thank you' is a bit of a cop-out; it stops the relationship in it's tracks and there is no progress.

T

I don't about "perception", but yeah, my perception was definitely she blanked me after that, because she did It was only when I decided to get to the bottom of it with my gf that she let me know what happened. My gf didn't want to make a thing of it at the time, who knows where it would have led. Just 2 doors down 2 Thai neighbours were at it cats and dogs for months on end, police were called several times, and there was a muubaan security guard posted outside their houses most days. You can change your wife, but not your neighbour.

I agree about the presents etc. that is exactly the right way of going. And my gf did indeed give stuff to her neighbour, but maybe because it hadn't come from me directly, or maybe she just didn't like me, I don't know, it didn't make any difference, she never talked to me again.

Its ok. I don't live there anymore. I was just relaying an account of how I learnt that Thais expect the "greasing", so if someone helped me out significantly on the road I would now expect to offer them something in return.

LOL! Good riddance to *that* neighborhood, eh?

While it's certainly better if you had personally delivered the gift, I think it's perfectly acceptable for the wife/gf to do so (though not servant or child). Considering your reply, seems like your neighbor might just be a bit of an oddball.

Cheers/T

[SteeleJoe]

I agree about the presents etc. that is exactly the right way of going. And my gf did indeed give stuff to her neighbour, but maybe because it hadn't come from me directly, or maybe she just didn't like me, I don't know, it didn't make any difference, she never talked to me again.

Its ok. I don't live there anymore. I was just relaying an account of how I learnt that Thais expect the "greasing", so if someone helped me out significantly on the road I would now expect to offer them something in return.

1) Giving presents is quite different than giving cash.

2) Maintaining reciprocal relationship with a neighbor over a period of time is quite different from paying cash a stranger for their help in an emergency.

3) I'd be careful about assuming you can make such broad judgments about Thai people (irrespective of social standing, specific circumstance or other nuance) based on the actions of this one Thai woman in this one instance.

[pete66]

Well, you will only ever get my side of the story, so judge it as you may. But from what I understand, she had just gone through a terrible divorce where her Thai husband had forged all kinds of company papers and ripped her off terrible etc. You fill in the blanks.

BTW, neighborhood was ok. Typical L&H estate on outskirts of BKK. All the problems seemed to be in our soi!

[pete66]

I agree about the presents etc. that is exactly the right way of going. And my gf did indeed give stuff to her neighbour, but maybe because it hadn't come from me directly, or maybe she just didn't like me, I don't know, it didn't make any difference, she never talked to me again.

Its ok. I don't live there anymore. I was just relaying an account of how I learnt that Thais expect the "greasing", so if someone helped me out significantly on the road I would now expect to offer them something in return.

1) Giving presents is quite different than giving cash.

2) Maintaining reciprocal relationship with a neighbor over a period of time is quite different from paying cash a stranger for their help in an emergency.

3) I'd be careful about assuming you can make such broad judgments about Thai people (irrespective of social standing, specific circumstance or other nuance) based on the actions of this one Thai woman in this one instance.

I was just giving one example that taught me something of how "one" Thai person seemed to feel. I have also seen many examples of how Thais go somewhere and when they come back, the family expect some kind of souvenir or memento (often food) of where they have been. I've been here 20 years all round the country. Don't need lecturing about making generalizations of Thai people. I lived in Bangkok, Chiang Mai, Trat, Khon Kaen, Phuket, Nontaburi etc. and always with Thai people.

[SteeleJoe]

I agree about the presents etc. that is exactly the right way of going. And my gf did indeed give stuff to her neighbour, but maybe because it hadn't come from me directly, or maybe she just didn't like me, I don't know, it didn't make any difference, she never talked to me again.

Its ok. I don't live there anymore. I was just relaying an account of how I learnt that Thais expect the "greasing", so if someone helped me out significantly on the road I would now expect to offer them something in return.

1) Giving presents is quite different than giving cash.

2) Maintaining reciprocal relationship with a neighbor over a period of time is quite different from paying cash a stranger for their help in an emergency.

3) I'd be careful about assuming you can make such broad judgments about Thai people (irrespective of social standing, specific circumstance or other nuance) based on the actions of this one Thai woman in this one instance.

I was just giving one example that taught me something of how "one" Thai person seemed to feel. I have also seen many examples of how Thais go somewhere and when they come back, the family expect some kind of souvenir or memento (often food) of where they have been. I've been here 20 years all round the country. Don't need lecturing about making generalizations of Thai people. I lived in Bangkok, Chiang Mai, Trat, Khon Kaen, Phuket, Nontaburi etc. and always with Thai people.

A) You didn't say "one" Thai person or only their feelings. You cited this one instance and said it was 'how (you) learnt that Thais expect the "greasing" ' . That is a reference to all Thais. You're backpedaling now.

2) Again you making fallacious comparisons: bringing a souvenier to someone you know is completely different (and is uindeed a Thai custom). It's not "greasing".

3) I wasn't lecturing. What I said is certainly no less appropriate (arguably more so, in fact) than you stating:

Thais would not at all be offended by being offered money for this. Whether they accept it or not as down to them. But to not offer something in the first place could be seen as ungrateful, that you don't respect what they have done to you, that you aren't "equal" if you were.

Or

Sorry, the idea that any Thai would be offended with an offer (even it was just some food, a present, an invitation to dinner, not necessarily cash), is just plain wrong.

3) Not sure if I'm supposed to be impressed by the fact you've lived in all those places in Thailand -- or that there were Thai people in all of them (?) -- but I think it would be silly to try and compete about who has more experience with Thais so I'm not going to make any similar lists and will merely point out that my own experience is considerable.

[Thakkar]

I don't think there are any absolutes here and one can't say for sure that LJW's response was inappropriate. One has to consider that the response could have been as much about his relief and gratefulness for being helped out of a very sticky bind. In that specific situation, he went with his instincts and only those who know him well could know whether his instincts tend to be correct.

Joe Steels suggestion of handing a name card and offering unspecified future help seems like a good template till you consider that it might be a little too open-ended. I'd modify that by specifying an offer for dinner or something.

T

Thing is A) the person would most likely not ever take you up on the offer (especially someone who was apparently not in need financially) and if they did contact you, it's up to you whether you extend whatever favor the request in return. The polite -- and no doubt sincere -- gesture of appreciation was made and if they do happen to ask for something (probably too kreng jai or just not anymore interested than you ate in turning a brie encounter into some sort of relationship) than you may judge whether it is appropriate or not and if it isn't, you need feel no obligation to accede to it.

As for the neighbor. I think the guy should have offered. I think it would have quite ugly were she to accept. I think him not offering makes him look bad - but that she would stop speaking to him...well, if that's all there is to the story (and not some other transgression, inadvertent or otherwise), she's not a very nice person. Which is what I was trying to say in my first comment about her.

EDIT to ADD:

I don't think there any absolutes here either. It wasn't me who claimed there were.

Quite right that the person would likely not take me up on the offer. On reflection, I think it's my particular life experiences that's made me cautious about open-ended commitments. Man, the stories I could tell you!

I didn't mean to suggest (and I don't think I did suggest) that you said there were absolutes.

T

[pete66]

I agree about the presents etc. that is exactly the right way of going. And my gf did indeed give stuff to her neighbour, but maybe because it hadn't come from me directly, or maybe she just didn't like me, I don't know, it didn't make any difference, she never talked to me again.

Its ok. I don't live there anymore. I was just relaying an account of how I learnt that Thais expect the "greasing", so if someone helped me out significantly on the road I would now expect to offer them something in return.

1) Giving presents is quite different than giving cash.

2) Maintaining reciprocal relationship with a neighbor over a period of time is quite different from paying cash a stranger for their help in an emergency.

3) I'd be careful about assuming you can make such broad judgments about Thai people (irrespective of social standing, specific circumstance or other nuance) based on the actions of this one Thai woman in this one instance.

I was just giving one example that taught me something of how "one" Thai person seemed to feel. I have also seen many examples of how Thais go somewhere and when they come back, the family expect some kind of souvenir or memento (often food) of where they have been. I've been here 20 years all round the country. Don't need lecturing about making generalizations of Thai people. I lived in Bangkok, Chiang Mai, Trat, Khon Kaen, Phuket, Nontaburi etc. and always with Thai people.

A) You didn't say "one" Thai person or only their feelings. You cited this one instance and said it was 'how (you) learnt that Thais expect the "greasing" ' . That is a reference to all Thais. You're backpedaling now.

2) Again you making fallacious comparisons: bringing a souvenier to someone you know is completely different (and is uindeed a Thai custom). It's not "greasing".

3) I wasn't lecturing. What I said is certainly no less appropriate (arguably more so, in fact) than you stating:

Thais would not at all be offended by being offered money for this. Whether they accept it or not as down to them. But to not offer something in the first place could be seen as ungrateful, that you don't respect what they have done to you, that you aren't "equal" if you were.

Or

Sorry, the idea that any Thai would be offended with an offer (even it was just some food, a present, an invitation to dinner, not necessarily cash), is just plain wrong.

3) Not sure if I'm supposed to be impressed by the fact you've lived in all those places in Thailand -- or that there were Thai people in all of them (?) -- but I think it would be silly to try and compete about who has more experience with Thais so I'm not going to make any similar lists and will merely point out that my own experience is considerable.

It was someone else that first mentioned "Social interactions go smoothly with judicious greasing."

Of course souvenirs / food from another province are "greasing" in the same way. Its just another social interaction, whether family, friend, or neighbour.

I carefully mentioned (more than once) that in the OPs post it would have been nice to offer "something" in return for the help. Didn't have to be cash, like I said ....

"well, if that's all there is to the story (and not some other transgression, inadvertent or otherwise)," - that's really nice, suggesting I had somehow abused the neighbor - hard to do when she wouldn't talk to ya.

[SteeleJoe]

Quite right that the person would likely not take me up on the offer. On reflection, I think it's my particular life experiences that's made me cautious about open-ended commitments. Man, the stories I could tell you!

I didn't mean to suggest (and I don't think I did suggest) that you said there were absolutes.

T

I think I may have an idea of what you mean...I have some stories as well! But I'm still OK with offering as long as I know my phone has caller ID and I don't have to respond to emails.

And no, you didn't suggest that. That was me being too tetchy (admittedly annoyed by someone else making the sort of absolute comment that will often irk me). Sorry.