Termites

[zapatero]

Brief background, for anyone who doesn't already know. If you do already know, please skip to next paragraph. That being, there are two types of termite control solutions, (at least that I am aware of). The first, called a reticulation system, consists of pipes that are installed between and along the ground floor foundation beams. These pipes, equipped with spray emitters, can be periodically fed with termicides to protect the base of the structure after construction has been completed. The second is a baiting system, in which bait cannisters are implanted outside around the base of the structure. Both systems are designed to kill termites; however the former relies more upon repelling, whereas the latter relies on attracting. The bait is consumed and carried back to the colony, which it is claimed, to be destroyed by eventually killing the queen.

There is already plenty of knowledgeable discussion here in TV on reticulation-type systems, and also on solutions such as drilling holes in the floor and spraying the baseboards, etc.

May I please request that we confine this thread to baiting system solutions?

Specifically, I would like to know of anyone's successful experience with termite baiting systems in Thailand. More specifically, has anyone had any success with DIY baiting systems? (The termite professionals that I have spoken with claim that their baiting systems are too complicated for DIY use. Thus they won't sell them for DIY use, and instead quote outrageous prices for their own service.) What has been your experience?

Any insights greatly appreciated,

~~zapatero

[Crossy]

Not specific to Thailand but there could be some pointers here http://www.doityourselftermitecontrol.com/

[beechstreet]

A similar sounding website to Crossy's link above... http://store.doyourownpestcontrol.com/Catalog/Advance-Termite-Bait-Systems

I have spoken to these guys and they were VERY helpful. I pre cast some access tubes into my slabs for a future bait system and they spent about 20 minutes with me on the phone measuring all of the cartridges of the different brands. We discussed the pros and cons and they helped me design a system. They'll ship internationally.

[Pacificperson]

Not in Thailand, but in the Asian tropics, I've had a bit of experience with baiting termites. First there are a lot of different types of termites and the baits work better on some types than others. You can wipe out the nasty ones and get a re-infestation with a different type for which the baits do not work as well. For houses with Styrofoam insulation, baits are the best way to go.

The last time I had an infestation in the tool shed, I cut the bottom out of a couple of sealable plastic boxes and fixed them to a spot where the termites were active with the lids facing out to give me easy access to the box without taking it off of the wall. I filled the boxes with cheap cardboard and paper and waited. Once the termites were feeding on the cardboard, I put the baits in with it. It cleaned up the infestation, which (knock on wood) has not returned. Total time was something close to 6-8 weeks. This was using the good baits from Dow Agrosciences. My expert friends tell me that the baits in the hardware store kits are not as effective.

Edited August 31, 2011 by Pacificperson

[beechstreet]

I finally found the sales flyer I had filed away from a Thai company that offers a bait system...

www.mfactors.co.th 081-731-8996, 089-139-5256

They use the Sentricon system from Dow Agrosciences. I would scan the flyer for you but its all in Thai.

I think my father in law uses them I can check on what he pays and if he is satisfied. There is some older pricing info in this thread...http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/103738-sentricon-termite-elimination-system-does-it-work/

Hope that helps. Please post any updates or additional info you turn up.

[zapatero]

Thank you for the replies guys; and sorry for the delay, I had to go out of town.

Thanks for the link below Crossy -- there is a lot of good on-topic information in there:

Not specific to Thailand but there could be some pointers here http://www.doityourselftermitecontrol.com/

Beech, it turns out that your link below not only sounds similar, it is! Nothing wrong with that -- it appears to be the sales arm for the same company's products. And there are a lot of them.

A similar sounding website to Crossy's link above... http://store.doyourownpestcontrol.com/Catalog/Advance-Termite-Bait-Systems

I have spoken to these guys and they were VERY helpful. ... they spent about 20 minutes with me on the phone ... We discussed the pros and cons and they helped me design a system. They'll ship internationally.

I have been waiting for an email response from them for several days now. Maybe their system is broken or unattended. If so, I will call. Specifically, their "Advance" system appears to be about as well thought out as any I have read about, but they haven't yet confirmed that they will ship to Thailand. I still need to check out your Sentricon/mfactors link.

Pacificperson, thank you for relating your experiences. Can you be more specific about the "good baits from Dow Agrosciences"? Were they the same as from Beech's Sentricon system?

[Pacificperson]

Yes, the stuff they use in the Sentricon system.

My problem with baiting termites is the wait for them to work. You feel like they are eating the whole house while you are checking the baits to see if the termites are still active or if they are gone. You can actually see physical changes in the termites as the baits start to work.

You might check your local vendor to see if they will simply bait the colony out for you.

[zapatero]

A quick status update: Crossy and Beech, I finally was able to make contact with the DIY company that you linked above. Sadly, because I was going to give their product a try, they said that they cannot ship to Thailand. So, I guess, Beech, that they have changed policy since you talked with them.

I have, however, just placed an order with this vendor, located in Malaysia: Termitesdiy. I have been seeing many ads from them, including even here in TV. That doesn't mean that they are any good, but they are comparatively inexpensive, and have a lot of endorsements: Endorsements. Here are some Installation Photos.

I will report back re my trial experiment with this product. But, in the meantime, has anyone else had any experience with this vendor and product?

I should also mention, BTW, that the professional service that I contacted wants 6000 THB per unit for their bait cannisters! This includes "full service". FWIW, IMO, this presents a whole new meaning to the phrase "getting serviced".

[malcolminthemiddle]

So all one needs are the bait cannisters to implant outside around the base of the structure to be able to establish a system using this Termitediy bait without paying the high prices of the service companies?

Anyone any idea where can we get get the bait cannisters?

[beechstreet]

I will report back re my trial experiment with this product. But, in the meantime, has anyone else had any experience with this vendor and product?

Please do follow up on your order and progress.

The only problem I see with that system is that it appears to be designed to intercept them once they are already in your house. I find the other, in-ground systems, attractive because they theoretically keep the termites at an arms length and the poison isn't inside the house...

Your last link isn't working for me...?

...all one needs are the bait cannisters...

My understanding is that every location/station is normally fitted with a "blank" (a chunk of wood) and is then routinely monitored for activity. If there are termites present then the blank is switched out for the more expensive "live round". I don't know if there is a shelf life on the bait or if it's just about saving money, but I guess one could fit every station with the bait from the beginning.

[zapatero]

I will report back re my trial experiment with this product. But, in the meantime, has anyone else had any experience with this (Termitesdiy) vendor and product?

Please do follow up on your order and progress.

The only problem I see with that system is that it appears to be designed to intercept them once they are already in your house. I find the other, in-ground systems, attractive because they theoretically keep the termites at an arms length and the poison isn't inside the house...

Your last link isn't working for me...?

Yes, I will follow up on the order and progress. I placed it yesterday, using the above web page link. The chap, (in Malaysia), said delivery in Thailand would be in seven working days or less.

Re your question, based upon the "Installation" link above, I think it should be possible to improvise a "cannister" for outside use, from, say, a plastic milk bottle. However, there is so much visible termite activity around our property that I don't think it will even be necessary to install the bait underground. Every board that is laying flat on the ground has termites under it. So, for starters, I am simply going to lift one of said boards, lay the box on the ground there, and replace the board. We'll see

Re my last "link". Sorry, my fault, it wasn't intended to be a link. I underscored it for emphasis, to be sure that it was noticed.

[passingas]

Just wondering why anyone would build with wood in a termite infested tropical place such as Thailand in the first place? Especially when any and all concrete products are readily available and totally immune to termites. pg

[Crossy]

PG, does your home contain no wood products at all? It's not just timber structures that require protection.

We're building in concrete but our home will contain a lot of wood, windows, doors, floors, furniture, all of which would make a tasty snack for the creatures which I intend denying them.

The structure itself will be immune to the little blighters but we're still installing a termite management system to protect the bits that aren't.

[beechstreet]

Just wondering why anyone would build with wood in a termite infested tropical place such as Thailand in the first place? Especially when any and all concrete products are readily available and totally immune to termites. pg

Not to get too far off topic...I think Crossy's response covers it all....Buuuuut I don't like to let minuscule bugs tell me what materials I should build my house out of. It seems even a basic baiting/maintenance regimen keeps them at bay and makes termites a moot point in the design process of a home. In fact I often ask my self why anyone would build with concrete in a hot humid tropical place such as Thailand in the first place!? I feel that the climate should determine what materials I should build my house out of...and theoretically concrete is one of the worst.

(Of course there are many reason that make concrete a good choice to build with here, notice I said "theoretically"! I am certainly not building a house out of wood. And my rant is not aimed at anyone in particular. ///End of non-confrontational disclaimer.)

[passingas]

My house which is about 99.2% composite material, including lots of concrete and exterior walls of AAC (which by the way has a enough of a dead air space using red brick on the interior in order to get away from columns in the wall) is so incredibly efficient keeping the house cool without AC (however this season was not the season to really find out due to the unseasonably cool weather we have had, at least up in the northern part of the country) that I am still scratching my head. Okay, I do have 5 exterior doors and frames that could potentially be termite fodder, and cabinet facings in the kitchen, but that is about it. However, I personally am sensitized to chemical pesticides and can not be around any of it or I get a fever and then start feeling like sh*t. The house we lived in prior to getting this one built was wood, probably teak. And I am here to tell you it was an oven inside during the day and well into the evening. So in my experience, wood is definitely not a cool (thermally) choice. Don't get me wrong, I love wood. I like the feel, the look, the warmth it gives (aesthetically) and the ease of which to work with. Wood floors are way more forgiving than tile floors. Sometimes, gravity does, indeed suck. But with the minute wood chomping critters that abound here, if it is not teak, then it is a buffet for them. Good luck on finding an appropriate system and I hope it works for you and your home. pg

[bbradsby]

You were just in the wrong wood house, methinks. There are so many reasons why wood is the material of choice for design for tropical climate. But thats in another thread, another day...

Am going to look at boric acid, in combo with a tasty bait. I used it for ant infestations with success personally. Anybody already do the research for its use with termites? The concept is the same; they carry it back to the nest along with the bait, and it kills em. A bait canister would be a section of perforated abs/pvc pipe suchas for septic drain lines.

[bbradsby]

OK, that was easy... GIYF: using searchwords: boric acid termites

...turns up something scholarly, non-commercial and produced by that great evild0er the USguvmint [that was sarcasm, thx] with that great evil use of taxpayer grub, research grants. OK, will turn off the $F0xNew$ now...

Anybody use boric acid for termites here? Finding a source here may be the problem as almost al comes from Death Valley USoA, interestingly enough.

Title: Detrimental effects of boric-acid-treated soil against foraging subterranean termites (Isoptera: Rhinotermitidae)

Author: Kard, Bradford M.

Date: 2001

Source: Sociobiology 37(2): 363-378

Description: 111 laboratory bioassays, boric acid (BA) mixed with soil caused significant subterranean termite mortality. In clloice tests, eastern subterranean and Formosan subterranean tennites were exposed to boric acid mixed with soil at concentrations of 0.05, 0.25, 0.50, 1.00, 2.00, and 4.00 percent Al (wt:wt). Termites could choose to remain in their main nests wit13 non-treated substrate and adequate food, or to tunnel through BA-treated soil in an attached foraging tube to reach a satellite nest containing non-treated substrate and additional food. Termite survival, feeding, and tunneling, and gut protozoa populations were determined after 12 weeks. Exposure to BA-treated soil caused significant, steadily increasing mortality in both species, concomitant with a decrease in feeding as BA concentration increased. Boric acid was non-repellent, and termites removed BA-treated soil from foraging tubes and deposited it in main and satellite nests. Generally, at BA concentrations of 1.00-2.00% or less in soil, termite gut protozoa populations were not dose dependent and did not significantly decrease for either termite species as BA concentrations increased, except at the 4.00% concentration where termites appeared weakest. Overall, BA mixed in soil caused significant detrimental effects to both termite species.

Keywords: Boric acid, Optotermes formosanus, Reticulitermes flavipes, protozoa, termites

Publication Notes:

• We recommend that you also print this page and attach it to the printout of the article, to retain the full citation information.
• This article was written and prepared by U.S. Government employees on official time, and is therefore in the public domain.

[bbradsby]

heres a parallel bit of news, just in, that would give hope to the borox / boric acid theory. It works wonders on mosquito colonies in easily homemade applications. Why was it not invented by university/govt researchers before - per the NYT article, its too simple! if you've not seen moskies feasting on durian, believe it.

NYT Poisoned Nectar for Mosquitoes - NYTimes.com.pdf

[zapatero]

Brad: I am interested in your boric acid studies.

Re mozzies, I have read your article. If you do any controlled experiments, e.g., with your fermented durian, please post here.

Re termites, I have heard some success stories in controlled experiments, (such as you have cited); but practical application over a house-sized lot would seem difficult. For starters, where do you even get the BA here in Thailand? I have asked many places and have thus far not found anyone who even knows what I am talking about.

Re ants, I have done some modest controlled experiments. Some quite successful. The baits I have tried ran from sugar water, peanut butter, jams & jellies, pork grease, chicken fat, and sweetened milk. Some ants prefer sweet, some the proteins in fat. The sweetened canned milk has both, and seemed to consistently attract the largest variety and numbers of ants.

For boric acid, I have been using the simple washing powder "20 Mule Team Borax" -- a box of which I brought from the states for this purpose. I mix about a cup of the sweetened milk, with about 1/4 - 1/3 cup of water to thin it down, with a about a tablespoon of that BA powder. I say "about" because that mixture seems to work; however there are several variables. Different concentrations of BA seem to work differently for different species of ants. And, too little and it is slow to work, too much and they won't eat it unless very hungry. That's as far as my controlled experimentation has progressed. The neighbor's cats kept eating the bait.

For results, I have run isolation tests on "mot daeng", those nasty biting red ants, and found that they die within 36 hours. Isolation tests on several black ants haven't been as clear. They appear to simply stop eating after a while, and eventually, after days or weeks, they just stop coming back. I conclude that the BA must be much slower acting on some species.

Well, that's my abbreviated experience. I am interested to hear any of your, or anyone else's, work on mozzies and termites. And if you care to carry on my experiments with ants, sans the neighbor's cats, I would be pleased to hear your results.

[bbradsby]

OK, we all should first source some boric acid in Thailand! Anybody know of a good source?

[zapatero]

As the OP, I began this thread to discuss baiting systems. I have some preliminary results to report:

1) I have eliminated three colonies of ants in the last couple of weeks, using the boric acid concoction that I described in Post #19. These were of three different species. The first was a tiny brown ant that had set up housekeeping behind the baseboards in my bedroom. Every morning I would awaken covered with bites. The bait solution eliminated this colony in three days. The second, a larger brown ant about 3mm in length, was wiped out in about four days. The third was a larger black ant, about 4mm in length. This species is tougher. Although sickened and weakened, some were still active after a week. But I've had experience with this species before. Eventually they just stop coming back -- which I interpret as elimination.

For the interested reader, I should note that a colony elimination usually doesn't happen abruptly. It "pulses". The first pulse comes from the new hatches that have occurred after the parents have been killed. The second and subsequent pulses occur from adjacent colonies which may have newly discovered the bait. And then their hatches arrive, etc. Until finally, the kill radius exceeds the foraging radius.

2) I have concluded a preliminary test of the termite baits that I discussed above in Posts #8, #11. My initial purchase was of five bait boxes. When installed as directed in the above links, two of the boxes appear to have worked as advertised. That is, the baits were attacked quite voraciously, but only partially consumed, and then were empty of termites. I conclude from this that the colonies were eliminated. (However time will tell.) One of the five boxes was completely emptied of bait, it had been completely consumed. And it was full of live termites! My conclusion from this is that one or more new colonies had discovered the bait, and it was consumed before these colonies were eliminated. The remaining two boxes were ineffective. But I conclude that this was my fault, because, as a test, I simply located them where I thought there might be probable activity; instead of on top of definite activity as was prescribed.

My bottom line conclusion is that these work as advertised. However, the kill radius is yet to be determined. BTW, I notice that this advertiser is now advertising in this thread on TV -- at least on my computer. Yours also?

3) Although they will not ship to Thailand, I have obtained a set of Advance bait cannisters described in Posts #2, 3, and 6 above. Please don't ask me for details about how I obtained them because I won't reply. However, I will be testing their effectiveness and will report back.

I encourage readers to please add your experiences to this thread, but please, let's keep it on-topic: baiting solutions.

Edited October 30, 2011 by zapatero

[IraqRon]

OK, we all should first source some boric acid in Thailand! Anybody know of a good source?

I found borax and boric acid in Chiang Rai at a chemical supply store on the highway here. Just was walking by and noticed some sacks and drums outside and that they had pool chemicals and assorted other water treatment chems inside. If found here then I think would be available elsewhere in Thailand.

The borax was from California by the way. I bought a 45 or so kilo bag for about 950 baht.

I only purchased 3 kilos of boric acid, about 100 baht or so. Don't know where it was sourced though.

Have used it on ants, borax that is and they hate it for sure. They scatter like, well ants, when I put it on the top of their nests or under the cabs, sinks.

Used the boric acid on the ground around the foundation where I had noticed the mud tubes of termites ( think they are termites) and they haven't been back. This was after useing the insect spray in the cans multiple times without success.

So good luck in sourcing the borax/acid.

Also, borax in small amounts can be added to laundry detergent to make it more effective.

I am looking forward to using the mix against the local mosquito population!!