British kick-boxer to be extradited to Thailand over murder of US Marine

[Wallaby]

There is an INCREDIBLY slim chance he will not be headed back to Thailand ...

The Daily Mirror says a government source told them: "The only way he could have realistically avoided extradition is if he would have faced the death penalty if found guilty. But the Thai Government have assured us that he will not."

Lee Aldhouse, 28, claims his human rights will be breached if he is sent to Bangkok's Bang Kwang Central Prison.

But Ally Wilkes, for the Thai government, said they had given assurances that Aldhouse could have his own cell.

It's believed that senior officials in Thailand are so keen to have Mr. Aldhouse extradited that if the conditions at Phuket Prison continue to be an issue they would be prepared to have him accommodated in a Western-style two-person cell.

If he 'allegedly' killed a Thai then I could understand them doing all this to get him back. But as this wasn't a Thai national killed I'm wondering why they are jumping through hoops to get him back to Thailand.

Though I'm very happy that they are doing that.

[Nisa]

"If Aldhouse didn't do it.....then who did"?

Whats more surprising is how Aldhouse evaded capture and exited Thailand and boarded a flight to the UK from Cambodia, or wherever he departed from. How does a person leave the country when the police are hunting you?? And how does he pass immigration in the country of departure (assuming departure from Cambodia) without the proper entry stamps, visa, etc??

I guess timing is everything and perhaps the police failed in this instance to notify the border points in timely fashion, or not at all about the status of this wanted person.

Can anyone paint a scenario in which a wanted person, perhaps flagged on immigration data bases as a wanted criminal fugitve can evade apprehension as in this case? Just curious.

Can anyone clarify if Aldhouse's appeal against extradition has been denied?

I would imagine it is a slow process in Thailand getting a nationwide alert and a much much long process getting an international alert out there.

I believe there is an article out there that where his girlfriend says they immediately fled Phucket by Taxi for Koh Samui. At some point they got a bus to Bangkok and went to to a small immigration check point, that wasn't hooked-up to a real time database, where he fled to Cambodia. It wasn't noticed for many hours later that he was able to escape. It is then believed he somehow made it to Singapore where he then flew to the UK.

But lets be realistic, people enter and exit countries illegally all the time. The US (a much more modern & high tech country) has something like 10 to 20 Million illegals in the country at any given time and more than 1/2 of these people crossed the border illegally from Mexico. The US also have many people on the run from the law who evade capture for long periods even though they have massive police forces with computers in their cars.

Aldhouse has lost every round to fight extradition and now is appealing.

[hehehoho]

I wonder if Amnesty Int. or others have reports of the TRP torturing people to death.

Edit: Google 'royal Thai police torture amnesty international' and it shows an interesting AI report - AI-index: ASA 39/005/2002.

Shame on any judicial system sending a citizen of theres to the torture chairs of the RTP.

Edited September 16, 2011 by hehehoho

[Nisa]

"If Aldhouse didn't do it.....then who did"?

Could be anyone really, did the single-mother GF who worked in the bar still have a BF or husband? Or were they an ex-BF/Husband? If they were a local, as many single-mother barworkers seem to have or had, I wonder how they felt about her shacking up with a big tough military foreigner.

LMAO, and this mysterious murderer waited for Aldhouse to lose a fight with the victim and go to the local 711 in a rage and steal knives before the mysterious murderer put on an Aldhouse mask (to confuse the eyewitness) before stabbing the the victim to death.

Edited September 16, 2011 by Nisa

[Nisa]

There is an INCREDIBLY slim chance he will not be headed back to Thailand ...

The Daily Mirror says a government source told them: "The only way he could have realistically avoided extradition is if he would have faced the death penalty if found guilty. But the Thai Government have assured us that he will not."

Lee Aldhouse, 28, claims his human rights will be breached if he is sent to Bangkok's Bang Kwang Central Prison.

But Ally Wilkes, for the Thai government, said they had given assurances that Aldhouse could have his own cell.

It's believed that senior officials in Thailand are so keen to have Mr. Aldhouse extradited that if the conditions at Phuket Prison continue to be an issue they would be prepared to have him accommodated in a Western-style two-person cell.

If he 'allegedly' killed a Thai then I could understand them doing all this to get him back. But as this wasn't a Thai national killed I'm wondering why they are jumping through hoops to get him back to Thailand.

Though I'm very happy that they are doing that.

Well the obvious reasons in terms of justice but if we want to be more cynical or political then lets not forget the close relationship Thais & Americans have enjoyed for a very long time and that this was a Purple Heart earning US Marine who served in both Iraq & Afghanistan.

It also is not at all going to effect Thai's UK relationship as I'm sure the UK will be happy to see this guy gone.

However, there has been some small grumblings within the Thai government that they will be picking up the bill for this prosecution and imprisonment.

Edited September 16, 2011 by Nisa

[hehehoho]

LMAO, and this mysterious murderer waited for Aldhouse to lose a fight with the victim and go to the local 711 in a rage and steal knives

Going from reports a 7-11 knife was not used to murder the victim.

before the mysterious murderer put on an Aldhouse mask (to confuse the eyewitness)

Giving conflicting reports from the eyewitness, it seems she was/is quite confused already.

I'm simply looking for hard evidence against the accused even being at the murder scene.

So far there isn't any.

[Wallaby]

LMAO, and this mysterious murderer waited for Aldhouse to lose a fight with the victim and go to the local 711 in a rage and steal knives

Going from reports a 7-11 knife was not used to murder the victim.

before the mysterious murderer put on an Aldhouse mask (to confuse the eyewitness)

Giving conflicting reports from the eyewitness, it seems she was/is quite confused already.

I'm simply looking for hard evidence against the accused even being at the murder scene.

So far there isn't any.

Well so far you don't need to know any.

It's an extradition hearing, not a trial. If the UK is satisfied there is a prima facie case against Aldhouse then it will allow the extradition. They won't allow the extradition if the case is as week as you believe. So just wait and see, no point arguing about it yet.

What more needs to be said?

[Nisa]

Giving conflicting reports from the eyewitness, it seems she was/is quite confused already.

Your broken record of untruths is getting pathetic.

The only QUOTES from the eyewitness are very clear that she saw what happened and there is not any suggestion by any reporter or news story that says she has changed her story or that anyone considers her anything but credible.

We've already been down this road a number of times. If you want to discredit the eyewitness because of inaccurate reporting or conflicting reports that have happened MANY times as this story developed, that is fine but please stop being untruthful with posters here who may not read all your unrealistic claims and actually believe this post by you.

Edited September 16, 2011 by Nisa

[bubblegum]

If they have the murder weapon they surely will have fingerprints ?

[Nisa]

I'm simply looking for hard evidence against the accused even being at the murder scene.

Well, then you need to wait for the actual trial as the police, as is normal, is not releasing their evidence for public consumption before needed. Any reasonable person given what has been released and reported to date will have little doubt he did this crime. The information provided to the UK authorities has also led them to believe he more than likely committed this crime. But to know more, we need to wait and also allow the suspect to plead his side ... though I haven't read about one word from him or his lawyers claiming he didn't do this and one would think if he didn't that would have been used the extradition hearing and reported in the press. Only speculation but it would seem the suspect may understand more than you that there is no way he can fight the evidence against him by saying he didn't do this crime.

[steelepulse]

>>Giving conflicting reports from the eyewitness, it seems she was/is quite confused already.

This guy keeping droning on and on the same nonsense. GF says she did see the accused stab the victim and the only inconsistencies were the initial news report from competing news sources. This wouldn't be the first time a news report initially published wrong and/or conflicting reports. Get over it wanna be QC.

[Nisa]

If they have the murder weapon they surely will have fingerprints ?

I would agree given they fact there was a witness to the crime and the suspects emotional state that has been reported and scene on video ... I highly doubt he thought to wipe off the knife(s), and discarded the knife(s) in an easy to find place.

However, there are conflicting reports of if he stole two knives of one. There is also one report that says the knife found in the house belonged to the kitchen. If this is true, then I suspect after the victim was stabbed and ran into the house, that the victim grabbed a knife to defend himself and may have actually cut the assailant. Part of this speculation is because when the police were looking for him they stated he would likely be injured ... though they may have been talking of the initial fight.

Also the girlfriend stated after the suspect stabbed the victim in the chest twice outside that they ran in the house and she locked the door ... I haven;t read anything about her saying what happened next except her calling the police. So, I'm not even sure if the suspect made it into the house and the other knife was simply something the victim grabbed before dying to protect himself in case the suspect made it in the house.

I think we are going to have to wait for official release of info before we know actual details like this .... unless the press interviews the girlfriend/eyewitness again.

[hehehoho]

The only QUOTES from the eyewitness

'Her' quotes that were in fluent, native speaking English? Yes, amazing Thailand. So that's those quotes rubbished as being without doubt that they written by someone else.

Edited September 16, 2011 by hehehoho

[bubblegum]

The only QUOTES from the eyewitness

'Her' quotes that were in fluent, native speaking English? Yes, amazing Thailand. So that's those quotes rubbished as being without doubt that they written by someone else.

Lost in translation !!!

[hehehoho]

Fingerprints?

Do the RTP or any Thai authority or the investigators even have the accused's fingerprints?

I'd be very very interested in seeing a source that the Thais have Aldhouse's prints or DNA.

Can somebody please link the accused to the murder scene in any hard way? ie. Not questionable 'quotes' from the GF that were without doubt written by somebody else, and who has also been reported as saying that she did not witness the murder.

Not 'forensic evidence' where the accused's prints or DNA are not involved, or where there's no video/CCTV footage of the accused at the murder scene.

[Nisa]

8. based on number 7 Aldhouse will not be extradited to thailand, he will be walking round the UK as a free man as is one of his fellow nationals that was also refused to be extradited here.

Who was the other UK National who didn't get extradited to Thailand ?

I can not seem to put my finger on the report at the moment but I will keep searching.

Please try to find this because if what you are saying is true then it might be very relevant as it would likely set a precedent in terms of the UK not extraditing citizens to Thailand making this entire extradition process a farse.

[bubblegum]

Fingerprints?

Do the RTP or any Thai authority or the investigators even have the accused's fingerprints?

I'd be very very interested in seeing a source that the Thais have Aldhouse's prints or DNA.

Can somebody please link the accused to the murder scene in any hard way? ie. Not questionable 'quotes' from the GF that were without doubt written by somebody else, and who has also been reported as saying that she did not witness the murder.

Not 'forensic evidence' where the accused's prints or DNA are not involved, or where there's no video/CCTV footage of the accused at the murder scene.

Read the post please. I'm not saying they have ! But if they have the murder weapon i can only guess they also have fingerprints.

[bubblegum]

Anyway I'm just happy I managed to escape this scumbag's attacks two weeks prior.

[Wallaby]

Fingerprints?

Do the RTP or any Thai authority or the investigators even have the accused's fingerprints?

I'd be very very interested in seeing a source that the Thais have Aldhouse's prints or DNA.

Can somebody please link the accused to the murder scene in any hard way? ie. Not questionable 'quotes' from the GF that were without doubt written by somebody else, and who has also been reported as saying that she did not witness the murder.

Not 'forensic evidence' where the accused's prints or DNA are not involved, or where there's no video/CCTV footage of the accused at the murder scene.

He did the bolt from Thailand so how would the Thai authorities get his fingerprints?

I suppose the UK can give the DNA and fingerprints of him to the Thai authorities.

As for the rest of your query, well, good luck in your world.

[Nisa]

Fingerprints?

Do the RTP or any Thai authority or the investigators even have the accused's fingerprints?

Without a doubt they have them now if they didn't have them before. He has an arrested record in the UK (gun / armed robbery) and has had issues with the Thai police in the past as verified by his photo being interviewed by thai police in the past.

Can somebody please link the accused to the murder scene in any hard way? ie. Not questionable 'quotes' from the GF that were without doubt written by somebody else, and who has also been reported as saying that she did not witness the murder.

LMAO, if you don't believe the only quotes in the news from the eye witness because she didn't write the article then you really aren't going to believe anything linking him to the murder.

And again, you are being dishonest as there is ABSOLUTELY NO QUOTES attributed to the girl or by the girl that have been reported in which she says she didn't see the murder or has contradicted herself or shown she is in anyway not credible.

One would think at some point, you would realize how foolish you are appearing here with your broken record pathetic claims and unrealistic demands for evidence to be shown to you that has not been made public yet.

Edited September 16, 2011 by Nisa

[Wallaby]

Fingerprints?

Do the RTP or any Thai authority or the investigators even have the accused's fingerprints?

Without a doubt they have them now if they didn't have them before. He has an arrested record in the UK (gun / armed robbery) and has has issues with the Thai police in the past as verified by his photo being interviewed by thai police in the past.

Can somebody please link the accused to the murder scene in any hard way? ie. Not questionable 'quotes' from the GF that were without doubt written by somebody else, and who has also been reported as saying that she did not witness the murder.

LMAO, if you don't believe the only quotes in the news from the eye witness because she didn't write the article then you really aren't going to believe anything linking him to the murder.

And again, you are being dishonest as there is ABSOLUTELY NO QUOTES attributed to the girl or by the girl that have been reported in which she says she didn't see the murder.

One would think at some point, you would realize how foolish you are appearing here with your broken record pathetic claims and unrealistic demands for evidence to be shown to you that has not been made public yet.

Nisa, the lack of 'hard' evdicence is the reason most people plead guilty. It doesn't mean a person is not guilty. Witnesses alone can be enough. We all know that.

He's just trolling.

[hehehoho]

Fingerprints?

Do the RTP or any Thai authority or the investigators even have the accused's fingerprints?

Without a doubt they have them now if they didn't have them before.

So no source to them actually having them then, just conjecture on your part... again.

Can somebody please link the accused to the murder scene in any hard way? ie. Not questionable 'quotes' from the GF that were without doubt written by somebody else, and who has also been reported as saying that she did not witness the murder.

LMAO, if you don't believe the only quotes in the news from the eye witness because she didn't write the article then you really aren't going to believe anything linking him to the murder.

Not that she didn't write the article, that the article included so called direct quotes that had 'her' speaking perfect, fluent English, at a native speaker's level. Which is highly suspicious as to their authenticity.

And again, you are being dishonest as there is ABSOLUTELY NO QUOTES attributed to the girl

Where did I say there are other 'quotes' attributed to her? Please stop making stuff up.

demands for evidence to be shown to you that has not been made public yet.

Why are you making claims that such evidence exists when you have no source that says it does. You seem to be making lots of 'factual statements' based on what you believe exists, not what actually does.

[prighas]

I may have lost you guys. What's exactly being discussed here?

[hehehoho]

I may have lost you guys. What's exactly being discussed here?

I'm looking for hard evidence that links the accused to the murder scene.

Others then seem to be producing conjecture, likelys, probablys, without a doubts and other stuff that isn't actually evidence of him being there.

Hopefully some hard evidence of the murderer being at the murder scene will be found.

I Might as well step out of the thread for a while as nobody is able to produce the hard evidence that they persist in claiming exists.

[Richard4849]

Thank God.

[Nisa]

I may have lost you guys. What's exactly being discussed here?

I'm looking for hard evidence that links the accused to the murder scene.

Because an eye witness whose own words we have no reason to doubt along with all the other information we have to date is not enough.

Why don't you ask the police to release their evidence instead of continuing to act like a lunatic here with your broken record unrealistic request.

Edited September 16, 2011 by Nisa

[steelepulse]

>>I'm looking for hard evidence that links the accused to the murder scene.

Does a direct witness statement not count as evidence? It would be very hard for the murder weapon not to have Aldhouse's prints/DNA on it whether the authorities publish this info or not. hehe do you really think police and prosecutors the world over publish all their evidence for cases in the news? Rhetorical question I know, of COURSE THEY DON'T, but it sure doesn't mean they don't have his prints and DNA along with a lot of other evidence.

If this guy didn't do the crime, he wouldn't have left the country via the route he took ( going all the way to Isaan and crossing a border with no computers) and flew home to blighty to be arrested so he hopefully wouldn't have to come back to face justice for this heinous act. What kind of a fool would do this if they are innocent. No one would fly home in a haste to be arrested if innocent. If innocent, he would have gone to another country.

[bubblegum]

cctv showing him stealing knife at 7/11 later found near the murder scene is no evidence either

[Nisa]

Police have issued an arrest warrant for Aldhouse, based on what they consider strong eyewitness evidence from Longfellow's girlfriend,

http://edition.cnn.c...TelG3&wom=false

"At first it didn't look like [Aldhouse] had anything," the girlfriend, identified only as Oi, told the Gazette. "We didn't know he had a knife because his hands were in his pockets." She said a fistfight began between the American and the Brit and the latter pulled out a knife and stabbed Longfellow twice in the chest.

Oi said that her boyfriend rushed inside and shut the door to protect her from Aldhouse. Oi called the police and an ambulance, but Longfellow died before they got there.

http://www.cbsnews.c...714-504083.html

It has also been reported in numerous papers that Aldhouse asked / was given the victim's home address right before the victim was stabbed to death at his home

Can we stop all the nonsense about there not being proof he was at the scene now? There are NO other quotes from the girl in the news to show she said anything different than the above and there is absolutely no relevance to if she is fluent in English or this is a translation of her statement to the reporter.

Edited September 16, 2011 by Nisa

[F1fanatic]

...I will nail my colours to the mast here, I think Aldhouse did it, but that is not the issue in this thread, the issue here is whether the evidence obtained by the Thai police is good enough, and is Thailand a fit and proper place for the UK to extradite one of their own to face trial. The evidence being put forward is full of holes and is enough to cast reasonable doubt and that is all that is needed.

This will not be the fault of aldhouse, longfellow, the UK legal system, this will fall squarely at the feet of the incompetent Thai police and the Thai legal system.

No, that is not all that is needed. All that is needed is for the judge to decide whether the evidence supplied to him would be sufficient to make a case requiring an answer if the proceedings were a summary trial in the UK. In making the decision the judge may treat any statement made by a person to a police officer or investigating officer as admissible evidence of a fact if direct oral evidence of the fact would be admissible.

From the evidence publically available, mainly the statements of the GF to the police, this threshold seems to have been met.

TH

my mistake, i should have been clearer, in this instance I was referring to trial rather than extradition, the evidence for trial is full of holes, the evidence for extradition is enough. however it is other matters that are holding up extradition and not the evidence available.

If this trial is held in the UK expect him to walk free at the the end of it.

Just with the information available to date from witnesses & video (forgetting about all the other evidence and forensics they have not released yet), it would seem very odd for anyone to say there are a lot of holes in the case. In fact, this would typically be termed a "slam dunk" type of murder case compared to most others. Not only is there clear motive, means & opportunity but they also have an eye witness. How in the world can anybody who was in law enforcement say the evidence is "full of holes" when the police have not even put forward their evidence yet but we still have an overwhelming amount of information being reported to show he did it barring any extraordinary defense such as the suspect having a twin.

Yes. The sooner we have trial by media and internet the better...

Why on earth are you so determined that he must have a trial in Thailand?

An earlier poster said a trial was not possible in the UK. Do any Brit lawyers out there know whether this is true? If so, I have more sympathy for your determination to see him 'tried' here.

As I have said before, I am fairly sure he is guilty - but still prefer to hear a court case in a first-world country. Justice is still not good there (money buys the best lawyers), but the defendant stands some chance of receiving a trial he can understand and defend.

If he's found guilty, then yes - send him back to Thailand to serve his sentence! I realise this is not possible, but it would be the best outcome from my POV.