British kick-boxer to be extradited to Thailand over murder of US Marine

[Tolley]

I haven't read the whole thread and it may have already been said but I understand that some countries can refuse extradition if there is any likelihood of the death penalty.

[F1fanatic]

USA will never extradite a citizen but expect other countries to do it. If not they kidnap them anyway! We were not there, we do not know what went on so unless you have cast iron proof that will stand up in court .......

Have to agree.

Aldhouse deserves to be extradited to Thailand if the story is true - but as long as the USA refuses to extradite American citizens they have no right to complain if the Brit government decides otherwise.

When has the US refused to extradite a citizen?

Two seconds on Google is all it takes to expose this as untrue.

Here's the first of many examples that came up of the US extraditing a citizen to face trial in a foreign country:

http://thetimes-trib...6#axzz1XLQ0Aabs

You're right and its interesting that in your example the (un-important) woman was extradited to Canada....

[Nisa]

but as long as the USA refuses to extradite American citizens they have no right to complain if the Brit government decides otherwise.

When has the US refused to extradite a citizen?

Two seconds on Google is all it takes to expose this as untrue.

Here's the first of many examples that came up of the US extraditing a citizen to face trial in a foreign country:

http://thetimes-trib...6#axzz1XLQ0Aabs

You're right and its interesting that in your example the (un-important) woman was extradited to Canada....

Are you now saying that the US refuses extradition of its citizens except to Canada? if so, you might also want to add Mexico (its other border neighbor) to the list .... but I think it might be better to simply admit you misspoke.

[Richard4849]

When has the US refused to extradite a citizen?

Two seconds on Google is all it takes to expose this as untrue.

Here's the first of many examples that came up of the US extraditing a citizen to face trial in a foreign country:

http://thetimes-trib...6#axzz1XLQ0Aabs

You're right and its interesting that in your example the (un-important) woman was extradited to Canada....

Here's an example of a US citizen being extradited to Thailand:

http://patrick.gueni...news06/plot.htm

[F1fanatic]

OK, I'm sorry I misspoke.

I should have added the qualifier ' unless they have carried out crimes against the US'.

[Richard4849]

OK, I'm sorry I misspoke.

I should have added the qualifier ' unless they have carried out crimes against the US'.

Neither of the cases I cited involved crimes against the United States. The lady murdered her husband (nationality not specified) and the man tried to bomb the Vietnamese embassy.

Can't you just make an unqualified statement that you were wrong. Come on, it's not that hard.

[Richard4849]

The silence is deafening...

[ajarnpot]

the rights and wrongs of this should be discussed too. Was it so wrong what aldhouse did. they chap was a soldier, perhaps it was what he wanted? death by kickboxer, like suicide by cop??

[Oberkommando]

Britons should face justice in Britain, whatever their crimes. Not in developing countries with corrupt judicial systems and inhumane prison conditions such as Thailand.

The fact that people (and that includes foreigners) arrested in Thailand have spent months in cells without legal representation and denied bail should be more than enough to cancel any 'agreements' as regards extradition.

Unfortunately the British political and judicial system is under siege, is partly non-functioning and is kowtowed to foreign interests.

[judgejohn]

the rights and wrongs of this should be discussed too. Was it so wrong what aldhouse did. they chap was a soldier, perhaps it was what he wanted? death by kickboxer, like suicide by cop??

The rights or wrongs of the case for me is that it is very sad that this happened . However the thread is about the extridition or not of the accused. Yes the victim was a trained murderer & some on here seem to think that his trained murderer mates will wipe him out in some sort of covert way if he is brought back to Thailand .

Now correct me if I am wrong but this was the result of a brawl (IF indeed it was Aldhouse who killed the Soldier) However there are people on here that would condone a premeditated murder of the accused . That is before any trial. I find that very htpicritical & smacks of thinking that it is ok for USA trained killers to kill whereever & whenever they choose to do so .

Makes you wonder what attitude the victim in this case had.

Bottom line is extridition just isn't going to happen .

[F1fanatic]

The silence is deafening...

Sorry, I have only just got back to TV.

As far as I can gather the case you mentioned involved a Vietnamese man (albeit an American citizen) who bombed a Vietnamese Embassy.

Somehow I suspect the Vietnamese would love to get their hands on him.... but you're right and I was wrong - sorry.

[F1fanatic]

Britons should face justice in Britain, whatever their crimes. Not in developing countries with corrupt judicial systems and inhumane prison conditions such as Thailand.

The fact that people (and that includes foreigners) arrested in Thailand have spent months in cells without legal representation and denied bail should be more than enough to cancel any 'agreements' as regards extradition.

Unfortunately the British political and judicial system is under siege, is partly non-functioning and is kowtowed to foreign interests.

I agree that Brits should face a trial in Britain - to give them a fair trial.

HOWEVER, if they are found guilty of a major offense I have no problem with being extradited to the country where they committed the crime for sentencing and imprisonment - albeit with an assurance that the death penalty will not be applied.

[craigt3365]

One off topic post and a reply to it have been removed. Please stay on topic and keep it civil. :jap:

[elgato]

Reminder - as much as you may dislike this guy's demeanour/appearance/attitude he is innocent till proven guilty.

The alleged crime was committed in Thailand ergo the trial should be in Thailand.

Let the courts deal with the crime and if found guilty let him be sentenced accordingly to time in a Thai prison.

Not need for many of the emotive posts.

If found guilty of a crime committed in Thailand, tried and convicted in Thailand, let him rot in Thailand!

[judgejohn]

Reminder - as much as you may dislike this guy's demeanour/appearance/attitude he is innocent till proven guilty.

The alleged crime was committed in Thailand ergo the trial should be in Thailand.

Let the courts deal with the crime and if found guilty let him be sentenced accordingly to time in a Thai prison.

Not need for many of the emotive posts.

If found guilty of a crime committed in Thailand, tried and convicted in Thailand, let him rot in Thailand!

Not going to happen . There will be no extridition & no rotting in Thailand . Can I ask why the people here was not shouting for extridition reguarding Blackwater ? It is relivent as it smacks of hypocracy .

[elgato]

the rights and wrongs of this should be discussed too. Was it so wrong what aldhouse did. they chap was a soldier, perhaps it was what he wanted? death by kickboxer, like suicide by cop??

If you read the article he was followed to where he was staying and stabbed (NOT kicked) when he answered the door.

[Nisa]

Britons should face justice in Britain, whatever their crimes. Not in developing countries with corrupt judicial systems and inhumane prison conditions such as Thailand.

The fact that people (and that includes foreigners) arrested in Thailand have spent months in cells without legal representation and denied bail should be more than enough to cancel any 'agreements' as regards extradition.

Unfortunately the British political and judicial system is under siege, is partly non-functioning and is kowtowed to foreign interests.

I agree that Brits should face a trial in Britain - to give them a fair trial.

HOWEVER, if they are found guilty of a major offense I have no problem with being extradited to the country where they committed the crime for sentencing and imprisonment - albeit with an assurance that the death penalty will not be applied.

If Brits (or any other nationality) don't want to be tried or sent to prison in a foreign land then they should stay at home and commit their crimes.

Sorry but I just think the attitude of both superiority and privileged is going a little bit far when somebody thinks they should be able to go to another country and not have to obey their laws and/or escape the justice system in that country. It is incredibly hypocritical to voluntarily visit and financially support another country and then cry about their justice system ... if somebody thinks it is so inhumane then they shouldn't be coming here in the first place.

[Nisa]

the rights and wrongs of this should be discussed too. Was it so wrong what aldhouse did. they chap was a soldier, perhaps it was what he wanted? death by kickboxer, like suicide by cop??

The rights or wrongs of the case for me is that it is very sad that this happened . However the thread is about the extridition or not of the accused. Yes the victim was a trained murderer & some on here seem to think that his trained murderer mates will wipe him out in some sort of covert way if he is brought back to Thailand .

Now correct me if I am wrong but this was the result of a brawl (IF indeed it was Aldhouse who killed the Soldier) However there are people on here that would condone a premeditated murder of the accused . That is before any trial. I find that very htpicritical & smacks of thinking that it is ok for USA trained killers to kill whereever & whenever they choose to do so .

Makes you wonder what attitude the victim in this case had.

Bottom line is extridition just isn't going to happen .

I am confused ... you are critical (rightly) of those judging this person guilty before a trial but you have no problem calling the unarmed victim who was stabbed to death a murderer?

The facts as I understand them so far, according to news, video, forensics and witness statements, is the Brit got his behind handed to him in a fist fight with the victim, who happened to be veteran wounded in Afghanistan, and then the suspect stole a knife from 711 and went to the home of the suspect where he then stabbed the unarmed victim to death when he arrived home. Seems to be little doubt the victim did this but he does without a doubt deserve his day in court and to be able to plead his side of the events.

But either your incredible bias is being demonstrated or you don't understand the definition of "murderer" ... there is just no reason to defame the victim this way.

[hehehoho]

Permission has been granted by a district judge in Westminster Magistrates (as per the OP).

Now the High Court, and then the Supreme Court, which can be both appealed to, await.

The British judiciary has a lot of approving to grant before the ECHR will be involved.

Edited September 9, 2011 by hehehoho

[Oberkommando]

If Brits (or any other nationality) don't want to be tried or sent to prison in a foreign land then they should stay at home and commit their crimes.

Sorry but I just think the attitude of both superiority and privileged is going a little bit far when somebody thinks they should be able to go to another country and not have to obey their laws and/or escape the justice system in that country. It is incredibly hypocritical to voluntarily visit and financially support another country and then cry about their justice system ... if somebody thinks it is so inhumane then they shouldn't be coming here in the first place.

No one is saying that. I am saying that if a Brit is captured in Britain for a crime committed abroad they should be tried, sentenced and imprisoned in Britain. The French have this system and it works well.

You must remember that the Thai authorities failed to apprehend this person (and quite possibly assisted in his escape) and bearing in mind that he was on an island with no apparent means of escape he still managed to get off the island and through a manned border-checkpoint out of the country.

The Thais have no-one to blame but themselves if he escapes their justice system.

[Ulysses G.]

Why would you believe a word of what the prison system here says when they "openly break the Geneva Convention?"

Why would anyone use the Geneva Convention to condemn Thai prisons. What do they have to do with each other?

[judgejohn]

If Brits (or any other nationality) don't want to be tried or sent to prison in a foreign land then they should stay at home and commit their crimes.

Sorry but I just think the attitude of both superiority and privileged is going a little bit far when somebody thinks they should be able to go to another country and not have to obey their laws and/or escape the justice system in that country. It is incredibly hypocritical to voluntarily visit and financially support another country and then cry about their justice system ... if somebody thinks it is so inhumane then they shouldn't be coming here in the first place.

No one is saying that. I am saying that if a Brit is captured in Britain for a crime committed abroad they should be tried, sentenced and imprisoned in Britain. The French have this system and it works well.

You must remember that the Thai authorities failed to apprehend this person (and quite possibly assisted in his escape) and bearing in mind that he was on an island with no apparent means of escape he still managed to get off the island and through a manned border-checkpoint out of the country.

The Thais have no-one to blame but themselves if he escapes their justice system.

Britan has a law where this can happen but only for child sexual abuse abroad

[Oberkommando]

It is incredibly hypocritical to voluntarily visit and financially support another country and then cry about their justice system ... if somebody thinks it is so inhumane then they shouldn't be coming here in the first place.

Most people that visit Thailand don't have even half a clue about how bad the justice system and how ingrained the corruption is. I would wager that if the truth be known it would hurt tourist arrivals beyond repair; hence the cover-ups and denials we see on a fairly regular basis here. The most recent and prominent of course being the spate of deaths in Chiang Mai.

It's not down to what people 'think' either. The state of the Thai Police, justice system and prison system is a matter of fact.

Edited September 9, 2011 by Oberkommando

[metisdead]

An off topic post has been removed. This topic is not about Obama or Bin Laden.

[hehehoho]

If Brits (or any other nationality) don't want to be tried or sent to prison in a foreign land then they should stay at home and commit their crimes.

Sorry but I just think the attitude of both superiority and privileged is going a little bit far when somebody thinks they should be able to go to another country and not have to obey their laws and/or escape the justice system in that country. It is incredibly hypocritical to voluntarily visit and financially support another country and then cry about their justice system ... if somebody thinks it is so inhumane then they shouldn't be coming here in the first place.

No one is saying that. I am saying that if a Brit is captured in Britain for a crime committed abroad they should be tried, sentenced and imprisoned in Britain. The French have this system and it works well.

You must remember that the Thai authorities failed to apprehend this person (and quite possibly assisted in his escape) and bearing in mind that he was on an island with no apparent means of escape he still managed to get off the island and through a manned border-checkpoint out of the country.

The Thais have no-one to blame but themselves if he escapes their justice system.

Britan has a law where this can happen but only for child sexual abuse abroad

Actually he can be tried in Britain for this murder.

Section 9 of the 'Offenses Against the Person Act of 1861.

Edited September 9, 2011 by hehehoho

[Nisa]

If Brits (or any other nationality) don't want to be tried or sent to prison in a foreign land then they should stay at home and commit their crimes.

Sorry but I just think the attitude of both superiority and privileged is going a little bit far when somebody thinks they should be able to go to another country and not have to obey their laws and/or escape the justice system in that country. It is incredibly hypocritical to voluntarily visit and financially support another country and then cry about their justice system ... if somebody thinks it is so inhumane then they shouldn't be coming here in the first place.

No one is saying that. I am saying that if a Brit is captured in Britain for a crime committed abroad they should be tried, sentenced and imprisoned in Britain. The French have this system and it works well.

You must remember that the Thai authorities failed to apprehend this person (and quite possibly assisted in his escape) and bearing in mind that he was on an island with no apparent means of escape he still managed to get off the island and through a manned border-checkpoint out of the country.

The Thais have no-one to blame but themselves if he escapes their justice system.

My reply still stands as it is EXACTLY what you said and continue to say but now you are appearing to add that if a criminal is able to escape jurisdiction they should not be sent back to that jurisdiction to face charges contrary to the reality and laws all around the globe. Some how I'm thinking your logic would not be such if a Thai murdered somebody in Britain and fled to Thailand. And then you also want to add fantasy in terms of how he escaped as there is absolutely no proof or even a suggestion, except by you, that he was in anyway assisted by any Thai authority to escape. It is just as possible or more plausible that he was helped by fellow countrymen.

[Nisa]

If Brits (or any other nationality) don't want to be tried or sent to prison in a foreign land then they should stay at home and commit their crimes.

Sorry but I just think the attitude of both superiority and privileged is going a little bit far when somebody thinks they should be able to go to another country and not have to obey their laws and/or escape the justice system in that country. It is incredibly hypocritical to voluntarily visit and financially support another country and then cry about their justice system ... if somebody thinks it is so inhumane then they shouldn't be coming here in the first place.

No one is saying that. I am saying that if a Brit is captured in Britain for a crime committed abroad they should be tried, sentenced and imprisoned in Britain. The French have this system and it works well.

You must remember that the Thai authorities failed to apprehend this person (and quite possibly assisted in his escape) and bearing in mind that he was on an island with no apparent means of escape he still managed to get off the island and through a manned border-checkpoint out of the country.

The Thais have no-one to blame but themselves if he escapes their justice system.

Britan has a law where this can happen but only for child sexual abuse abroad

Actually he can be tried in Britain for this murder.

Section 9 of the 'Offenses Against the Person Act of 1861.

The only significant provision of the Act to survive today is section 3, which concerns the extra-territorial jurisdiction of the criminal courts over crimes committed by British subjects overseas. Generally, British criminal law does not apply to things done overseas, but there are some exceptions for acts done abroad by British subjects, such as murder. Section 3 restricted the scope of this jurisdiction to CUKCs (except in respect of crimes that would be against UK law even if committed by aliens). This was necessary so that, for example, a Canadian citizen who committed murder in Canada could not be prosecuted for it in a British court instead of in Canada.

http://en.wikipedia....8#The_Act_today

Edited September 9, 2011 by Nisa

[judgejohn]

Cant be done under that law

[Oberkommando]

My reply still stands as it is EXACTLY what you said and continue to say but now you are appearing to add that if a criminal is able to escape jurisdiction they should not be sent back to that jurisdiction to face charges contrary to the reality and laws all around the globe. Some how I'm thinking your logic would not be such if a Thai murdered somebody in Britain and fled to Thailand. And then you also want to add fantasy in terms of how he escaped as there is absolutely no proof or even a suggestion, except by you, that he was in anyway assisted by any Thai authority to escape. It is just as possible or more plausible that he was helped by fellow countrymen.

It isn't even remotely close to what I said and the fact remains many countries will not extradite their citizens for trial abroad and France is one of them as I have already pointed out. The laws in the UK do not apply "all around the globe", indeed far from it and there are several other countries that will not extradite their citizens.

What is fantasy about Aldhouse escaping an isolated island and then through a border checkpoint? It would stand to reason that there is a possibility of him having had the assistance of someone in authority to escape. Other murderers; Somchai Wisetsingh and the killer of Leo del Pinto had the assistance from their colleagues in the Police force to escape the country and those are just the tip of a large iceberg. Duangchalerm, the deputy PM's son also had assistance in fleeing the country for his alleged murder of a Police officer. In fact, officials helping people escape is extremely common here.

[Nisa]

It is incredibly hypocritical to voluntarily visit and financially support another country and then cry about their justice system ... if somebody thinks it is so inhumane then they shouldn't be coming here in the first place.

Most people that visit Thailand don't have even half a clue about how bad the justice system and how ingrained the corruption is. I would wager that if the truth be known it would hurt tourist arrivals beyond repair; hence the cover-ups and denials we see on a fairly regular basis here. The most recent and prominent of course being the spate of deaths in Chiang Mai.

It's not down to what people 'think' either. The state of the Thai Police, justice system and prison system is a matter of fact.

Anyone traveling to Thailand is very capable of researching the country before coming here and anyone traveling to a foreign land should understand the legal system of that land applies and not their home country when they are visiting. Thai Visa does a great job with the search engines and anyone doing a search can easily find your rants against Thailand as well as actual news reports of such things as the deaths in Chiang Mai and make their own decisions about visiting a developing nation.

Just because every tourist doesn't share your views is no reason to believe they are not informed or that the VAST MAJORITY of people visiting Thailand don't have a great time and often come again and again.