British kick-boxer to be extradited to Thailand over murder of US Marine

[Richard4849]

"Impossible"? We'll see.

[Wallaby]

The defendent dosen't file any motion unless he is appealing . On appeal he will set his objections & reasons of appeal.

He has no need to put anything forward untill he appears in court after motions from the prosicution . Why cant you get it that the Thai prison system alone makes his extridition impossible. IT really is not hard to accept how inhumane Thai prisons are

Are you on the turps or what?

[Wallaby]

^^ A judge deciding on the sentencing before the evidence is even submitted at any sort of pre-trial.

There goes the right to a fair and non-biased trial.

As the process has to climb through a number of courts and a number of judges I do not believe any one judge would have the power, or legal standing to make such a promise on sentencing on a case that has yet to be heard.

As the only people with the power to do so would be the sentencing judge, the appeals court, and the King of Thailand, who is making these assurances??

I've asked for their details but people can't seem to answer?

Are you and judgejohn brothers. I mean really!!!

This is not about the judge deciding a sentence or making a promise. A judge isn't doing that. The govt or govt rep is. It happens all the time. Govt's set the sentenceing guidelines and a judge must abide by those guidelines. If the govt (prosecution) tell the judge the death sentence is not available in this case then the judge is bound by that. I think you are confusing yourself over something that is very very simple.

Also, the King has nothing to do with it. The King can commute a death sentence AFTER it has been handed down but in this case it hasn't/won't be.

Look at Nisa's post, it explains it perfectly.

Edited September 6, 2011 by Wallaby

[carmine]

This is, actually rather funny. Theres also an element of cockney rhyming slang...so, happy days!

Now, back on topic. Sometime ago people were bleating on about him being extradicted and saying it would never happen. Well it looks like he will be now. The Thais are doing their bit in this case it would appear.

The evidence does seem strong. things seem to be moving in the right direction. Why don't people let things take their natural. The way its going he stands a very high chance of conviction and will spend a very long time behind bars.

Edited September 6, 2011 by metisdead
Deleted posts removed from the reply and off topic comments.

[Wallaby]

Because the Thai Dept of International Affairs cannot give that guarantee, it won't. That is not it's job. All the UK need is a letter from anyone with authority, doesn't have to be a govt official. The prosecutor handling the case is sufficient because he/she will be acting on behalf of the govt.

It's not hard, it's very simple. Move on.

A Thai prosecutor cannot decide (and make promises about) sentences in a Thai court. It is solely at the behest of the Thai judges.

This is not the American judicial system.

No it isn't. The prosecution act on behalf of the govt and speak for them. If the prosecutor says there is no death sentence then that's it, the court is bound.

I am not American and do not know much about the US system.

[rgs2001uk]

The defendent dosen't file any motion unless he is appealing . On appeal he will set his objections & reasons of appeal.

He has no need to put anything forward untill he appears in court after motions from the prosicution . Why cant you get it that the Thai prison system alone makes his extridition impossible. IT really is not hard to accept how inhumane Thai prisons are

There are many things some farang will complain about in Thailand, at the same time there are many things to admire.

One of the things I admire, and wish my country would adopt is the Thai prison system.

So I cant accept the, 'IT really is not hard to accept how inhumane Thai prisons are' statement.

I dont see taxpayers money being wasted on giving prisoners a better lifestyle than many citizens.

Thinking of the way the UK mollycoddles prisoners who are living a better life than many pensioners, I would have no problem if the Thai style were implemented.

[Nisa]

The defendent dosen't file any motion unless he is appealing . On appeal he will set his objections & reasons of appeal.

Extradition is basically automatic UNLESS the defendant fights it. If he waives his rights to an extradition hearing then he is sent back. If he fights extradition he has to give reasons and to do so, requires filing with the court. Not sure what world you live in but a court doesn't work for the defendant and try to find reasons why he should not be extradited, this is the defendants and/or his lawyers jobs.

Why do you insist on being so argumentative and disregarding history, the facts, the law, the extradition treaties as well as British officials stating he is almost positively heading back????

Edited September 6, 2011 by Nisa

[hehehoho]

The Thai judicial system.

Prosecutors cannot decide sentences. It is 100% up to the judge.

Govt's set the sentenceing guidelines and a judge must abide by those guidelines.

In many countries, yes. Not in Thailand. Thai judges don't legally answer to prosecutors. They can ask for what the prosecutor recommends, but they are under absolutely no legal obligation to follow it. Thai judges decide sentences, not Thai prosecutors.

People seem to be thinking of many different legal systems here, not the Thai one.

That seems to be what is confusing people.

Edited September 6, 2011 by hehehoho

[Nisa]

The Thai judicial system.

Prosecutors cannot decide sentences. It is 100% up to the judge.

Govt's set the sentenceing guidelines and a judge must abide by those guidelines.

In many countries, yes. Not in Thailand. Thai judges don't legally answer to prosecutors.

That seems to be what is confusing people.

I am not sure where any prosecutor sets the sentencing or where the judge answers to the prosecutor. Sentencing almost everywhere is done by judges or juries. However, the prosecution is the one to bring the case and file the charges and they decide what charges to file including if it will be murder or capital murder. One notable difference in Thailand vs. the US is that an individual can also file/prosecute charges/defendants directly with the court without going through the prosecutor.

A judge must obey sentencing guidelines in Thailand just as they do in other places. The cannot impose a penalty of death in a drunk driving case if the law only allows for a fine and 30-day incarceration. And if the prosecutor decides not to charge the defendant with drunk driving but only speeding, the judge cannot at the end of the trial decide the defendant is also guilty of drunk driving.

Thailand obviously has a different judicial system (as do other countries from each other) but it does contain a lot of the the same elements as the UK.

Edited September 6, 2011 by Nisa

[hehehoho]

the prosecution is the one to bring the case and file the charges and they decide what charges to file including if it will be murder or capital murder.

Again people are bringing notions of other country's legal system in to this case.

There is no 'murder or capital murder' in Thailand. There is only murder.

No 1st degree, 2nd degree etc etc. Only the singular charge of murder. Differences in sentences can be given on how brutal etc the crime was.

If he is being extradited on the capital charge of murder, no one can make a legal assurance on what his sentence will or won't be, besides the sentencing judge, which opens up another can of worms altogether.

All reports I have seen indicate the charges are murder, if anybody has information about the charges being anything else but murder it would be interesting to see them. Thanks.

Edited September 6, 2011 by hehehoho

[Richard4849]

There is such thing as sentencing guidelines in Thailand, but they are only that: guidelines. And they come from above (Miinistry of Justice) not below (prosecutors).

[Wallaby]

There is such thing as sentencing guidelines in Thailand, but they are only that: guidelines. And they come from above (Miinistry of Justice) not below (prosecutors).

Yes but the prosecutors are the representative of the Ministry so speak on behalf of the ministry in the court.

Judges cannot sentence outside guidelines. Well, to be more clear, a judge can make any sentence he/she wishes, a prosecutor can make any submission on sentence he/she wishes. However, the govt then steps in as it has an agreement not to issue the death penalty and so that sentence is commuted.

A Judge could in fact sentence this git to death. Then he's taken away, the govt has an agreement in place so commutes the sentence, sometimes this is done by the King or whoever, but it is done because of the agreement.

Either way you want to look at it, he won't be getting the death sentence.

[Nisa]

the prosecution is the one to bring the case and file the charges and they decide what charges to file including if it will be murder or capital murder.

Again people are bringing notions of other country's legal system in to this case.

There is no 'murder or capital murder' in Thailand. There is only murder.

No 1st degree, 2nd degree etc etc. Only the singular charge of murder. Differences in sentences can be given on how brutal etc the crime was.

If he is being extradited on the capital charge of murder, no one can make a legal assurance on what his sentence will or won't be, besides the sentencing judge, which opens up another can of worms altogether.

All reports I have seen indicate the charges are murder, if anybody has information about the charges being anything else but murder it would be interesting to see them. Thanks.

First of all there are varying degress of homicide/murder in Thailand and they actually have what amounts to manslaughter, murder with intent, all the way up to killing a head of state. In fact, I don't even believe a simple murder case in Thailand can ever warrant the death penalty. Murder with intent in Thailand is punishable by death as is the murder of certain people.... murder without intent is not punishable by death, such as a bar fight. Murder with intent would basically be the equivalent of premeditated or 1st degree murder in other places. The laws go much deeper than this but just some tidbits to help you understand that Thailand is not another planet but actually has a fairly modern criminal codes.

When charges are filled, the maximum penalty for a crime is always known and the judge doesn't have the authority to deviate from sentencing guidelines specified in the law. Nobody goes on trial and doesn't know if they they are facing the death penalty or not because the criminal codes for each offense has a maximum sentence specified for each crime.

Edited September 6, 2011 by Nisa

[ukrules]

Why have they not extradited Terry Easter, who jumped 10 Millio Baht bail in 2009, and disappeared, most likely back to the UK?

The question to ask is 'Why hasn't anyone been extradited ?'

That's right, nobody in modern times has been extradited to Thailand from the UK. The reasons have been outlined in this topic but strangely most posters appear to be ignoring this.

[Nisa]

Giving up the possibly of the death penalty in this case is actually no big deal at all. Not only would this person almost surely not received the death penatly because the murder was committed in a "heat of passion" but also because Thailand rarely carries out death sentences. I think only 2 people have actually been executed in the last 8-years.

[Nisa]

Why have they not extradited Terry Easter, who jumped 10 Millio Baht bail in 2009, and disappeared, most likely back to the UK?

The question to ask is 'Why hasn't anyone been extradited ?'

That's right, nobody in modern times has been extradited to Thailand from the UK. The reasons have been outlined in this topic but strangely most posters appear to be ignoring this.

When was an extradition request from Thailand ever not honored by the UK for the reason outlined here?

I won't hold my breath for your response.

[ukrules]

When was an extradition request from Thailand ever not honored by the UK for the reason outlined here?

I won't hold my breath for your response.

All I know is when I asked the Home Office extradition section about this they just told me nobody has been extradited from the UK to Thailand for years.

They didn't mention the last time a successful extradition from the UK to Thailand happened, if you really want to find out I'm sure you could just ask them.

Edited September 6, 2011 by ukrules

[metisdead]

Off topic baiting posts and replies have been removed.

[Nisa]

When was an extradition request from Thailand ever not honored by the UK for the reason outlined here?

I won't hold my breath for your response.

All I know is when I asked the Home Office extradition section about this they just told me nobody has been extradited from the UK to Thailand for years.

They didn't mention the last time a successful extradition from the UK to Thailand happened, if you really want to find out I'm sure you could just ask them.

You previous post ...

The question to ask is 'Why hasn't anyone been extradited ?'

That's right, nobody in modern times has been extradited to Thailand from the UK. The reasons have been outlined in this topic but strangely most posters appear to be ignoring this.

is clearly misleading then when it doesn't even appear an extradition request was ever denied or that there were any requests for an extradition during this time.

According to officials in the UK, it is simply a matter of time before he is sent back.

Edited September 6, 2011 by Nisa

[houseinbkk]

There are many things some farang will complain about in Thailand, at the same time there are many things to admire.

One of the things I admire, and wish my country would adopt is the Thai prison system.

So I cant accept the, 'IT really is not hard to accept how inhumane Thai prisons are' statement.

I dont see taxpayers money being wasted on giving prisoners a better lifestyle than many citizens.

Thinking of the way the UK mollycoddles prisoners who are living a better life than many pensioners, I would have no problem if the Thai style were implemented.

When you were in a British prison did you find being locked up in a cell made for 1 by the Victorians with upto 3 others easy?

And being locked up for 23.5 hours a day ok?

Or do you not know anything about British prisons other then what you read in the Express!

Thai prisons maybe fine for murderous and pedos but the majority are in for minor crimes and presumably a great number are innocent and have been fitted up by the Thai police and cant afford decent legal advice.

PS Im sure i met this nutter on a BTS train 5-6 years ago he was kicking off at people for having suitcases on the train at about 3pm, he looked like a bit of a jack the lad in decent clothes etc.. hence it was strange to see someone like this get on one.

Edited September 6, 2011 by houseinbkk

[carmine]

There are many things some farang will complain about in Thailand, at the same time there are many things to admire.

One of the things I admire, and wish my country would adopt is the Thai prison system.

So I cant accept the, 'IT really is not hard to accept how inhumane Thai prisons are' statement.

I dont see taxpayers money being wasted on giving prisoners a better lifestyle than many citizens.

Thinking of the way the UK mollycoddles prisoners who are living a better life than many pensioners, I would have no problem if the Thai style were implemented.

When you were in a British prison did you find being locked up in a cell made for 1 by the Victorians with upto 3 others easy?

And being locked up for 23.5 hours a day ok?

Or do you not know anything about British prisons other then what you read in the Express!

Thai prisons maybe fine for murderous and pedos but the majority are in for minor crimes and presumably a great number are innocent and have been fitted up by the Thai police and cant afford decent legal advice.

PS Im sure i met this nutter on a BTS train 5-6 years ago he was kicking off at people for having suitcases on the train at about 3pm, he looked like a bit of a jack the lad in decent clothes etc.. hence it was strange to see someone like this get on one.

Perhaps some people think its fine to break the Geneva Convention and put a minor offence prisoner in 5kg leg irons for months on end but i, and hopefully other sane people think that its totally barbaric

[houseinbkk]

There are many things some farang will complain about in Thailand, at the same time there are many things to admire.

One of the things I admire, and wish my country would adopt is the Thai prison system.

So I cant accept the, 'IT really is not hard to accept how inhumane Thai prisons are' statement.

I dont see taxpayers money being wasted on giving prisoners a better lifestyle than many citizens.

Thinking of the way the UK mollycoddles prisoners who are living a better life than many pensioners, I would have no problem if the Thai style were implemented.

When you were in a British prison did you find being locked up in a cell made for 1 by the Victorians with upto 3 others easy?

And being locked up for 23.5 hours a day ok?

Or do you not know anything about British prisons other then what you read in the Express!

Thai prisons maybe fine for murderous and pedos but the majority are in for minor crimes and presumably a great number are innocent and have been fitted up by the Thai police and cant afford decent legal advice.

PS Im sure i met this nutter on a BTS train 5-6 years ago he was kicking off at people for having suitcases on the train at about 3pm, he looked like a bit of a jack the lad in decent clothes etc.. hence it was strange to see someone like this get on one.

Perhaps some people think its fine to break the Geneva Convention and put a minor offence prisoner in 5kg leg irons for months on end but i, and hopefully other sane people think that its totally barbaric

Exactly, all Brits like to rant against Human Rights Act up until the point they end up on the wrong side of the law, and it isnt exactly difficult to do in Thailand, in theory old boys having Viagra could get you a night/week/month in HMP, or a driving accident, having a few diazepam for a flight home etc.. Though if this scumbag avoids deportation then there are clearly problems with it aswell as with Thai jails.

[Bagwan]

A few things.

A) Thailand is on the Human Rights Watch List for countless violations, especially regarding prison conditions. His attorney's will probably be all over that in an effort to stop it.

The U.S. actually DOES have jurisdiction, and grounds to request he be sent there for trial, due to the fact that he not only killed a U.S. Citizen, but a member of the U.S. Military who was on medical leave from active duty. I think maybe they might be waiting to see what happens with the extradition to Thailand. If this scumbag is able to successfully stop being sent to Thailand, then the U.S. will probably start extradition proceedings to have him brought there for trial.

As a former Marine myself (20 yrs), I would love to see them send this guy to visit the unit Dashawn was part of. Trust me, justice would be served.

So the US Marines would act just the same as Thais do? Like half a dozen against one? How very brave and manly. Is that the US Marine way? BTW what is the record of brutality in US prisons? Not too clever according to many reports.

What is so special about US citizens anyway that the US legal system reaches out globally? Why should the US get special treatment? Did Australia ask for the extradition of the cop who murdered one of their own? Does any country ask Thailand to ensure justice as it is recognised in the First World?

I am all for those who fall foul of the law to be weighed off and dealt with in the country where the crime was committed. If you find a sojourn in a Thai prison not to your liking then go break the law elsewhere where you may be treated more leniently.

[Hermes100]

Or not as in this case! You mean ex marine do you not?

No doubt the" combat hardened marine"( such childish macho word's) wished that was one battle he had missed because look what happened. Embarrassed? Who? Thugs like to "win" at any cost that why this man may of done what he did. He went home alive. He was not a combat vet. I like the brit's, but the hooligans will be hailing this as victory not as an embarrassment at all.

They will point out that rambo's skills did not do him much good at all and surely an intelligent soldier would avoid trouble.

I do feel sorry for any loss of life and I have a great deal of respect for the American troop's and serviceman. And I am sure that they would agree that it's always better, like in this case perhaps to avoid a fight or problem than to use brute strength.

Nobody win's a fight, nor a battle.In war and conflict there are no winner's only survivor's. The boy you decide to have fun and " kick someones butts" rather than walk away the more chances you have of ending up crossing the wrong sort who does not give any credence to your macho history and sends you home just like any other mortal in a body bag. Like in this case.

I hope he RIP and my heart goes out to the family friend's.

I would like to add that I hope to see less silly remarks like this because as much as I love the USA ( and I do deeply for some reason) I would like it's great people to slow down on the gung-ho. We are not in the wild west anymore . The sort of macho attitude of " I can kick you butt because I am ....( whatever) often shown by some people in the US and in other western nation's sends the wrong sort of message.

This message can result in all sort's of thing's .

I think it is macho nonsense like this that lead to another sort of cowardly entity sneaking up and making a mess. 9-11. And that is why its best to be careful what one says and does and always avoid.

To the marine RIP.

Yes, I agree, it is childish and they seem to forget who went home dead. It was their combat hardened rambo. Sorry- I mean ex combat hardened marine rambo.

its a tragic loss of life( and I really should not joke about it) but do they not see how in the brit's and I am guessing the other euro's eye there was only one clear 'winner" and how it looks when the winner was a not a rambo.And worse still, some are saying such silly things like " bet he wished he never did it"

Do they mean rambo or the man still alive ?

I doubt he was even a boy scout and yet in his and others eye, he clearly " won" ( does not give one much confidence in American combat troops some could say )he went home alive and I very much doubt will be sent back here. They are only going through the motions.

Lighten up everyone!

1) He was not an ex-Marine. He was currently serving.

2) As far as I know, it's you who decided to call him " a rambo" -- with all that disdain and mockery that implies -- and without cause.

3) To have been in combat does generally "harden" a person and most people consider it noteworthy experience and relevant in some instances.

4) According to reports, it was not him who started the fight.

5) The fact that the guy he fought was, reportedly, later able to ambush him with knife says ZERO about the capabilities of American combat troops in a general sense.

6) Your ideas about the cause of events like 9/11 are remarkably simplistic and ill-informed.

7) You seem to have very little sense of decency.

Just sayin'.

Bye!

1-I meant he most certainly is an ex-marine now. " Was" is past tense. Unless the US has started using zombie's as troops( and some think they do!)

2- Rambo, yes me , after seeing such nonsense terms like " combat hardened " when it was the ( ex) who ended up getting bagged!

3-agree

4-regardless who "started" it or not. The man who" finished" it is still alive, so not something I would sort of be boasting about.

5-I agree, so please do NOT boast about a rambo's. It looks silly to say " do not do this or that to a combat hard man" when someone who was not a rambo , did and sent him home in a bag!

6-That is your opinion and I defend your right to it. However, you do not know me and so know nothing of what I know.

7-Why ? because I show the fallacy of silly little boasts by silly little men who ought to get their facts right before making such silly statements.

like " he got his ass handed to him" well if that's the case, how come a non rambo was able to get up and later do what he did. Rambo did not do a very good job, despite all his training, so it does no good to point this out, now does it? I hope that's not how the US military defines a victory ore an ass kicking. No wonder AQ does not seem to perturbed!

You are right, they do not like this. It is tragic what happened to that man. It just plain silly what I read here. And, by the way " seem's" means = zero.Things are often not what they seem.

I expect to rambo it seemed to him that he was safe and all was well after he dished out the " ass kicking" which never was.

Like you now I would suggest that in future less assumption, more fact finding, see where it can lead.

May that poor man RIP and may people grow up, put silly little macho statement's away or at least get their fact's correct. Or they end up making more trouble and looking rather foolish.

[rgs2001uk]

There are many things some farang will complain about in Thailand, at the same time there are many things to admire.

One of the things I admire, and wish my country would adopt is the Thai prison system.

So I cant accept the, 'IT really is not hard to accept how inhumane Thai prisons are' statement.

I dont see taxpayers money being wasted on giving prisoners a better lifestyle than many citizens.

Thinking of the way the UK mollycoddles prisoners who are living a better life than many pensioners, I would have no problem if the Thai style were implemented.

When you were in a British prison did you find being locked up in a cell made for 1 by the Victorians with upto 3 others easy?

And being locked up for 23.5 hours a day ok?

Or do you not know anything about British prisons other then what you read in the Express!

Thai prisons maybe fine for murderous and pedos but the majority are in for minor crimes and presumably a great number are innocent and have been fitted up by the Thai police and cant afford decent legal advice.

PS Im sure i met this nutter on a BTS train 5-6 years ago he was kicking off at people for having suitcases on the train at about 3pm, he looked like a bit of a jack the lad in decent clothes etc.. hence it was strange to see someone like this get on one.

Answer yor questions one by one.

'

When you were in a British prison did you find being locked up in a cell made for 1 by the Victorians with upto 3 others easy?' never been in one, cant comment.

'And being locked up for 23.5 hours a day ok?' Yes perfectly ok by me, ask the parents of the Soham victims, please read what wasnt reported in the press for fear of an outcry.

'Or do you not know anything about British prisons other then what you read in the Express!' Dont read the Express, read the Thai Rath, is that right wing or left wing enough for you?

I dont live in a euro socialist stalanist state run by left wing bleeding hearts liberals, perhaps you subsribe to the school of thought that prisons are a place of redemption, I dont.

I subscribe to the school of thought you go to a court to be sentanced, I appreciate Thailand may not be for everyone, but it suits me just fine, thankfully I dont pay taxes to keep these scum in conditions better than second world war veterans, your outlook is noted enjoy life in your stassi state where big brother knows best, I enjoy life here just fine.

[metisdead]

When replying to a quoted post, do not make your reply inside the

tags, one post removed.

[katasyd]

Phuket Police arrested a old UK fraudster yesterday in a sting at the request of UK

http://www.phuketgazette.net/archives/articles/2011/article10936.html

Funny how it comes after Aldhouse extradition approval. Coincidence?

They scratched our back and now we must scratch theirs.

[blabla1]

Just curious,what kind of visa will he be issued? non immigrant M ?

[Ulysses G.]

silly little boasts by silly little men

[Richard4849]

Phuket Police arrested a old UK fraudster yesterday in a sting at the request of UK

http://www.phuketgaz...ticle10936.html

Tourist Police Volunteers to the rescue!