Treat Thaksin Like Any Fugitive, Abhisit Tells Govt

[hammered]

The thing a lot miss about the April/May deaths is they happened on Abhisit's watch. It isnt about arguing the politics of how it happened, it is about every time Abhisit is seen it reminds people across swathes of the country of the division and death that he oversaw from within an army base even though in the capital regarded as the heartland of Democrat power.

If you have the army shoot the people on your watch in a democracy, you are history politically. This even more true when you clearly were not representing the interests of the majority in doing it, and that has been amply demonstrated in the votes the Dems haemoraged

Now for the Dems to move forward the rejected and unelectable one who will forever be remembered first and foremost for that incident has to go, but they cant see it and in there lies the problem. The Dems do not need to be reminding people all the time of the incidents, but every time Abhisit's smiling face crops up to make a speech on something it is a reminder. Stupid politics in the extreme and maybe Amsterdam is correct in his quip that by reselecting Abhisit the Dems had decided to give up totally on democracy and rely on "accidents" to give them government

Oh, well, then all the Democrats have to do is to force a situation were the military has to be called in by the government and ensure that there are plenty of civilian casualties and thus force the government to fail.

So simple, I wonder why nobody though of doing that bef.... oh, wait.

That wont work. Even allowing for the military probably not doing it and the anti-Thaksinistas are divided and a hatred exists among them, the government wont need to call in the army as the pro-government demo will be a lot bigger than the anti-government one. The numbers and just about everything else right now are against the Dems and their probably decreasing band of allies

There is also the chance that many in the bureaucracy will actually see the writing on the wall and make their peace with team Thaksin as that is probably a lot more of a known option than facing redocracy

[mca]

So on that basis Thaksin should never again sit in office... how many died in his war on drugs and 'truck stacking' incidents?

Unfortunately with regards to the Tak Bai incident the post-mortem inquest found the security forces "had acted according to the law, used sound judgement and done their best given the circumstances"

[Partyondude]

Elected?

By Whom exactly?

They lost the election that followed the coup and were in opposition....

that is until the intervention of some influential 'army' figures persuaded Newin and his faction of 23 mps to switch sides against the wishes of their constituency electorates.

That hardly constitutes being elected or having a mandate to rule, and does not sound like any kind of democracy I have previously heard of.

Agreed, teat anyone precisely the same. What means that Abhisit an Suthep should be treated as any other dictatorship that turned the guns on its people. It means too that the soldiers who ordered and who shot should be in the dock. Unfortunately we know for over 10 months that Suthep as the man responsible for DSI has falsified the reports and investigations into the deaths of many citizens and two nurses.

Abhisit is the last one who should comment on what the new government does or does not. He is as human rights abuser on precisely the same level as the man his criticizes.

Dictatorship? They were elected and also called elections themselves.

Do police go to jail when they kill someone that was shooting at them? Does the Chief of Police go to jail when a policeman shoots someone?

[SICHONSTEVE]

when the People Power Party was in power, the then government set the legal guidelines not to forward a pardon petition to the Royal Palace if the case involved a fugitive.

"but...but... it's different now"

Surely you are not implying that things will be different because it is the prime minister's older brother, are you!!!!! Of course he will be treated

the same as any other fugitive and will not be given preferential treatment. Why do I say this?? because Yingluck herself said so....what do you mean you don't believe her!!!

[whybother]

Elected?

By Whom exactly?

They lost the election that followed the coup and were in opposition....

that is until the intervention of some influential 'army' figures persuaded Newin and his faction of 23 mps to switch sides against the wishes of their constituency electorates.

That hardly constitutes being elected or having a mandate to rule, and does not sound like any kind of democracy I have previously heard of.

Elected. By "the people". How else do you think they became MPs?

They certainly weren't "dictators".

[Buchholz]

Elected?

By Whom exactly?

They lost the election that followed the coup and were in opposition....

that is until the intervention of some influential 'army' figures persuaded Newin and his faction of 23 mps to switch sides against the wishes of their constituency electorates.

That hardly constitutes being elected or having a mandate to rule, and does not sound like any kind of democracy I have previously heard of.

[tlansford]

About Thaksin he was absolutely right. Unless Thaksin's case is reopen, the evidence evaluated by a different, non-coup appointed body and overturned. Other than that, it should stand as it is.

For the record, the evidence was evaluated by a non-coup appointed body.

Thai ex-PM guilty of corruption

Thailand's fugitive ex-PM Thaksin Shinawatra has been found guilty of corruption and sentenced to two years in prison by the Thai Supreme Court.

BBC - 21 October 2008

http://news.bbc.co.u...fic/7681416.stm

and a non-coup-related organization's opinion of the above non-coup appointed body :

The Asian Human Rights Commission called the Thai legal system a "mess" and called for a drastic overhaul of Thailand's criminal procedures. It cited the rampant use of forced confessions, and the fact that even a senior justice ministry official admitted that 30% of cases went to court with no evidence.

[metisdead]

An inflammatory post with profanity inviting other members to flame has been removed.

[OzMick]

Elected?

By Whom exactly?

They lost the election that followed the coup and were in opposition....

that is until the intervention of some influential 'army' figures persuaded Newin and his faction of 23 mps to switch sides against the wishes of their constituency electorates.

That hardly constitutes being elected or having a mandate to rule, and does not sound like any kind of democracy I have previously heard of.

Agreed, teat anyone precisely the same. What means that Abhisit an Suthep should be treated as any other dictatorship that turned the guns on its people. It means too that the soldiers who ordered and who shot should be in the dock. Unfortunately we know for over 10 months that Suthep as the man responsible for DSI has falsified the reports and investigations into the deaths of many citizens and two nurses.

Abhisit is the last one who should comment on what the new government does or does not. He is as human rights abuser on precisely the same level as the man his criticizes.

Dictatorship? They were elected and also called elections themselves.

Do police go to jail when they kill someone that was shooting at them? Does the Chief of Police go to jail when a policeman shoots someone?

Actually, in any democracy, once elected an MP can decide how he will vote, which party he will support, and whether he will join a coalition to form a government.

Of course in the simplified 2 party US system, this rarely happens. Welcome to the rest of the world.

[OzMick]

About Thaksin he was absolutely right. Unless Thaksin's case is reopen, the evidence evaluated by a different, non-coup appointed body and overturned. Other than that, it should stand as it is.

For the record, the evidence was evaluated by a non-coup appointed body.

Thai ex-PM guilty of corruption

Thailand's fugitive ex-PM Thaksin Shinawatra has been found guilty of corruption and sentenced to two years in prison by the Thai Supreme Court.

BBC - 21 October 2008

http://news.bbc.co.u...fic/7681416.stm

and a non-coup-related organization's opinion of the above non-coup appointed body :

The Asian Human Rights Commission called the Thai legal system a "mess" and called for a drastic overhaul of Thailand's criminal procedures. It cited the rampant use of forced confessions, and the fact that even a senior justice ministry official admitted that 30% of cases went to court with no evidence.

Your quote is not referring to the Supreme Court, Thaksin did not confess (though a couple of million in a doughnut box could be taken that way), and the evidence was as clear as day.

[Crushdepth]

About Thaksin he was absolutely right. Unless Thaksin's case is reopen, the evidence evaluated by a different, non-coup appointed body and overturned. Other than that, it should stand as it is.

For the record, the evidence was evaluated by a non-coup appointed body.

Thai ex-PM guilty of corruption

Thailand's fugitive ex-PM Thaksin Shinawatra has been found guilty of corruption and sentenced to two years in prison by the Thai Supreme Court.

BBC - 21 October 2008

http://news.bbc.co.u...fic/7681416.stm

and a non-coup-related organization's opinion of the above non-coup appointed body :

The Asian Human Rights Commission called the Thai legal system a "mess" and called for a drastic overhaul of Thailand's criminal procedures. It cited the rampant use of forced confessions, and the fact that even a senior justice ministry official admitted that 30% of cases went to court with no evidence.

Do you think Thaksin was innocent?

[ralphlsasser]

Abhisit is acting like a spoilled brat. He can not stand the fact that he was defeated, not by a little, but a land slide. He did nothing but talk. He is a typical elete, born with a silver spoon in his mouth and just as corrupt as anyone else. The police chief is being replaced because he turned is head and let the gambling houses do their business while the senior officers owned the places. Get over it Abhisit, you lost. Now, why don't he go back to his Ivy league school and try again.

[Buchholz]

Abhisit is acting like a spoilled brat. He can not stand the fact that he was defeated, not by a little, but a land slide. He did nothing but talk. He is a typical elete, born with a silver spoon in his mouth and just as corrupt as anyone else. The police chief is being replaced because he turned is head and let the gambling houses do their business while the senior officers owned the places. Get over it Abhisit, you lost. Now, why don't he go back to his Ivy league school and try again.

Wow, it's a good thing the Billionairess that replaced Abhisit is not "elete" and not spoiled.

And it's a good that the Billionairess's brother-in-law National Police Chief will not turn his head to avoid seeing the sort of corruption that enabled the Billionairess to become a Billionairess.

Now, if only the Billionairess could go back to her Podunk state university and try and get an education so that she at least talks (her avoidance of questioning quickly becoming legendary in its magnitude).

.

Edited September 5, 2011 by Buchholz

[KKK]

An amnesty for and/or the return of Taksin to Thailand will be the countries ruination in my eyes. How anybody can agree to forgive and allow the return of this known fugitive, corruptor, thief, evil and selfish man is totally beyond me. To do so is to say that all the crimes he commited are no longer crimes and open arms for him or somebody like him to do it all again.

Anybody who supports an amnesty for Taksin is no better than he...so what does that say for the Thai nation....are they really all crooks at heart? It appears that way to me.

[tlansford]

For the record, the evidence was evaluated by a non-coup appointed body.

Thai ex-PM guilty of corruption

Thailand's fugitive ex-PM Thaksin Shinawatra has been found guilty of corruption and sentenced to two years in prison by the Thai Supreme Court.

BBC - 21 October 2008

http://news.bbc.co.u...fic/7681416.stm

and a non-coup-related organization's opinion of the above non-coup appointed body :

The Asian Human Rights Commission called the Thai legal system a "mess" and called for a drastic overhaul of Thailand's criminal procedures. It cited the rampant use of forced confessions, and the fact that even a senior justice ministry official admitted that 30% of cases went to court with no evidence.

Do you think Thaksin was innocent?

Thanks for asking that question !

As for Thaskin's guilt regarding his conviction, I do not know if he was really guilty or not. I think that it is very likely that he was, in fact, guilty, but as I also think that it is very likely that his conviction was truly political in nature, it is a mute point for me. This is not to say that guilt or innocence does not matter, it only means that in this particular case where a conviction is (probably) politically motivated, then he would have been convicted regardless of his guilt or innocence.

As for Thaskin himself, his politics, and his history as PM, in my opinion, Thaskin has demonstrated that he does not have integrity. I do not believe that he is an intellectually honest person, and I wonder about his moral character. My understanding of his history in government makes me believe that Thaskin is not a friend of democracy - at all.

It would be interesting to have discussions about Thaskin himself as a political figure and also a discussion about current events without having one completely overshadow the other. There are many more interesting topics related to Thai politics than whether Thaskin serves time, stays in exile, or gets a pardon.

[hyperdimension]

it is the change and the awakening of the mass to their democratic potential that is the real story and which will set the future direction of Thailand

That's a nice line, but I think it is money that will set the future direction of Thailand.

Money buys the creation and dissemination of the propaganda (which includes the hiring of charismatic people) that can awaken the masses to their deluded "democratic potential".

Money can also buy allegiance - if you pay someone enough money then they will do what you want them to do. "Enough" may be a few hundred baht or a few million or billion baht; there will almost always be some finite number at which someone will concede if at first they don't.

Corporations and megalomaniac billionaires can and do control countries (and this statement is not just specific to Thailand).

[hammered]

it is the change and the awakening of the mass to their democratic potential that is the real story and which will set the future direction of Thailand

That's a nice line, but I think it is money that will set the future direction of Thailand.

Money buys the creation and dissemination of the propaganda (which includes the hiring of charismatic people) that can awaken the masses to their deluded "democratic potential".

Money can also buy allegiance - if you pay someone enough money then they will do what you want them to do. "Enough" may be a few hundred baht or a few million or billion baht; there will almost always be some finite number at which someone will concede if at first they don't.

Corporations and megalomaniac billionaires can and do control countries (and this statement is not just specific to Thailand).

The odd thing in Thailand though is that the majority of the money by a long way has resided with those who lose the elections, so it would indicate what you argue isnt true. The side that keep losing can easily outbid the side that keep winning

[hyperdimension]

The odd thing in Thailand though is that the majority of the money by a long way has resided with those who lose the elections

I think they simply didn't spend it (which is in line with your use of the word "resided"), whilst the other did so greatly in various ways and probably saw it as an investment on which they have now gained a return and will continue to do so whilst they hold the reins.

I'd say that it's not who is richer that wins, it's the one who spends more shrewdly (i.e. strategically targeted) and sufficiently that does.

Edited September 6, 2011 by hyperdimension

[lannarebirth]

[

and a non-coup-related organization's opinion of the above non-coup appointed body :

The Asian Human Rights Commission called the Thai legal system a "mess" and called for a drastic overhaul of Thailand's criminal procedures. It cited the rampant use of forced confessions, and the fact that even a senior justice ministry official admitted that 30% of cases went to court with no evidence.

Do you think Thaksin was innocent?

Thanks for asking that question !

As for Thaskin's guilt regarding his conviction, I do not know if he was really guilty or not. I think that it is very likely that he was, in fact, guilty, but as I also think that it is very likely that his conviction was truly political in nature, it is a mute point for me. This is not to say that guilt or innocence does not matter, it only means that in this particular case where a conviction is (probably) politically motivated, then he would have been convicted regardless of his guilt or innocence.

As for Thaskin himself, his politics, and his history as PM, in my opinion, Thaskin has demonstrated that he does not have integrity. I do not believe that he is an intellectually honest person, and I wonder about his moral character. My understanding of his history in government makes me believe that Thaskin is not a friend of democracy - at all.

It would be interesting to have discussions about Thaskin himself as a political figure and also a discussion about current events without having one completely overshadow the other. There are many more interesting topics related to Thai politics than whether Thaskin serves time, stays in exile, or gets a pardon.

If you yourself say he was likley guilty, how can you also say that his conviction was politically motivated?

If he committed crimes, most of which he has not even stood trial for, why wouldm't you want to see him in prison, just like any other person who commited such heinous crimes?

[plumeria]

Now, Abhisit is becoming courageous, and asking for action on Thaksin. This would not be so amusing, except for the fact that he did very, very little to pursue Thaksin while he was PM. His army bosses told him not to, so he did not. Now, he is pushing the reds to do something, and treat him just like any other fugitive. Abhisit is a coward, and a tiny man. He lacks any conviction, and only talks, and talks. "Dee tab poot", good at talking, but not much else. What a pathetic loser. He cannot come to grips with the fact that he was voted out, and by a huge margin. He had so many opportunities to pursue Thaksin. Thailand made a grievous error by not getting him while they could. What a mistake.

Abhisits crew sent a dossier to interpol to arrest Thaksin on terrorism charges. The director of Interpol used it for wiping away his tears of laughter at the terrorism charge but saved a couple of the pages to wipe his butt on. Sad how Thaksin is welcome most places but not here. The world knows the truth about this but most of farangs on here sadly dont

Good reply. :jap: Hopefully ALL THE TRUTH will come out soonish!!

The world knows the truth about Taksin? Oh, please.

Money talks.

As the Thai proverb goes: "Anything a rich man does is cute."

He got rich on government contracts. Only way to get any government contract is be as crooked as a dog's hind leg.

And in a country where a vote can be bought for Baht 500 or with a new well for the village or a new truck for the headman, whoever has the biggest wad of cash can buy the country, including whoever Taksin answers to.

Anybody who thinks Taksin is the head of the pyramid is not seeing the big picture.

God help us all.

Would the good people of Thailand please stand up and say "we've had enough". Pleasssssseeeeee!

[lannarebirth]

Now, Abhisit is becoming courageous, and asking for action on Thaksin. This would not be so amusing, except for the fact that he did very, very little to pursue Thaksin while he was PM. His army bosses told him not to, so he did not. Now, he is pushing the reds to do something, and treat him just like any other fugitive. Abhisit is a coward, and a tiny man. He lacks any conviction, and only talks, and talks. "Dee tab poot", good at talking, but not much else. What a pathetic loser. He cannot come to grips with the fact that he was voted out, and by a huge margin. He had so many opportunities to pursue Thaksin. Thailand made a grievous error by not getting him while they could. What a mistake.

Abhisits crew sent a dossier to interpol to arrest Thaksin on terrorism charges. The director of Interpol used it for wiping away his tears of laughter at the terrorism charge but saved a couple of the pages to wipe his butt on. Sad how Thaksin is welcome most places but not here. The world knows the truth about this but most of farangs on here sadly dont

Good reply. :jap: Hopefully ALL THE TRUTH will come out soonish!!

The world knows the truth about Taksin? Oh, please.

Money talks.

As the Thai proverb goes: "Anything a rich man does is cute."

He got rich on government contracts. Only way to get any government contract is be as crooked as a dog's hind leg.

And in a country where a vote can be bought for Baht 500 or with a new well for the village or a new truck for the headman, whoever has the biggest wad of cash can buy the country, including whoever Taksin answers to.

Anybody who thinks Taksin is the head of the pyramid is not seeing the big picture.

God help us all.

Would the good people of Thailand please stand up and say "we've had enough". Pleasssssseeeeee!

I think you're right. It's pretty clear to me, that while this gang may loot Thailand, there a bigger regional game afoot.

[craigt3365]

One post advocating violence has been removed.

[hyperdimension]

Anybody who thinks Taksin is the head of the pyramid is not seeing the big picture.

I think you're right. It's pretty clear to me, that while this gang may loot Thailand, there a bigger regional game afoot.

[hammered]

Anybody who thinks Taksin is the head of the pyramid is not seeing the big picture.

I think you're right. It's pretty clear to me, that while this gang may loot Thailand, there a bigger regional game afoot.

I dont want to interupt anyones conspiracy orgasm but most Thai analysts see a Thaksin led Thailand as taking a more eastern/southern route and an establishment led Thailand taking a continued western looking route

[hyperdimension]

I dont want to interupt anyones conspiracy orgasm but most Thai analysts see a Thaksin led Thailand as taking a more eastern/southern route and an establishment led Thailand taking a continued western looking route

Global corporations want to dominate the world, including Middle East and Asia. One way in which they can maintain and grow their own interests is via Corporate membership programs in "think tanks" which consist of powerful world elites such as the Council on Foreign Relations. Thaksin is a big capitalist and an appropriate stooge for the interests of global corporations in their quest to continue spreading their dominance across the entire world as he would be more likely to sell-out Thailand to them than the establishment.

Edited September 7, 2011 by hyperdimension

[tlansford]

Do you think Thaksin was innocent?

Thanks for asking that question !

As for Thaskin's guilt regarding his conviction, I do not know if he was really guilty or not. I think that it is very likely that he was, in fact, guilty, but as I also think that it is very likely that his conviction was truly political in nature, it is a mute point for me. This is not to say that guilt or innocence does not matter, it only means that in this particular case where a conviction is (probably) politically motivated, then he would have been convicted regardless of his guilt or innocence.

As for Thaskin himself, his politics, and his history as PM, in my opinion, Thaskin has demonstrated that he does not have integrity. I do not believe that he is an intellectually honest person, and I wonder about his moral character. My understanding of his history in government makes me believe that Thaskin is not a friend of democracy - at all.

It would be interesting to have discussions about Thaskin himself as a political figure and also a discussion about current events without having one completely overshadow the other. There are many more interesting topics related to Thai politics than whether Thaskin serves time, stays in exile, or gets a pardon.

If you yourself say he was likley guilty, how can you also say that his conviction was politically motivated?

If he committed crimes, most of which he has not even stood trial for, why wouldm't you want to see him in prison, just like any other person who commited such heinous crimes?

First point : I thought that I was clear the first time around ... if a conviction is truly politically motivated, then the person will be found guilty - true guilt and innocence has nothing more to do with it. As for this case, whether I think that Thaskin was likely to have really been guilty of the charges has nothing to do with the story whatsoever. That is only my opinion, formed from the limited information available to me, and - to your point - it doesn't mean that I cannot also believe that his conviction was politically motivated.

Second point : I did not express an opinion one way or another as to my preference about seeing Thaskin in prison or not. I did not say that he did or did not commit other crimes. But maybe your question was just a leading, rhetorical one??

[Crushdepth]

Thanks for the answer. The way I look at it, Thaksin's political influence has undoubtedly also protected him from being charged with many other things. So if one happens to get through the guard, I don't have a lot of sympathy.