Thai Labour Unions To Sue Govt Over 300 Baht Minimum Wage Promise

[plumeria]

However, the minister said workers' skills and efficiency must also be developed to be worth the pay rise.

.. and if not, you're for the chop.

A minimum salary is looong overdue in Thailand and - being honest - 6,000 THB per month really isn't that much. However it wouldn't surprise me if its implementation suffers resistance from PT's own bedfellows. And if it's poorly implemented (as it looks like it's going to be) there's a good chance this will backfire on them through disgruntled supporters.

My own biggest concern is how PT/UDD plan to deal with any protests that kick off. It's pretty clear this time around they won't let themselves be run out of power easily, regardless of how legitimate the reason.

I'm not young and this is the first time in my life I've heard of the concept of a national "minimum salary".

An employer should be able to expect to get a return on investment (the person's salary) of at least the amount the person is getting paid plus one Baht to make it the slightest bit worthwhile.

But so many new grads want "money for nothin and chicks for free".

I can't run a business that way.

I need a new grad with a BS in printing technology to be able to tell me the difference between RGB and CMYK. (No applicants could.)

If I ask a university grad the size of A4 paper, I expect him/her to know or to be capable of finding out. (All I got were giggles and a stupid expression with "I don't know. 5555555")

When asked how to find out? (All I got were giggles and a stupid expression with "I don't know. 5555555")

Then I handed the new grads a ruler and asked again, the size of A4 paper?

Yep. You guessed it. They measured it wrong.

And somebody is going to force me to pay those kinds of people a minimum salary each month?

No way.

I need everyone to be doing their part. No dead wood and no minor wives on the payroll. I need workers or we cannot survive.

Edited September 6, 2011 by plumeria

[Buchholz]

Govt Assures Wage Hike Next Year

Meanwhile, Labor Minister Padermchai Sasomsap reiterated the planned minimum wage hike to 300 baht a day will be implemented and insisted the readjustment must satisfy both workers and their employers.

He said the 300-baht daily minimum wage will be piloted in seven provinces by January 1 next year before it is gradually implemented in 70 other provinces.

Those seven provinces are Bangkok, Samut Prakan, Samut Sakhon, Nakhon Pathom, Pathum Thani, Nonthaburi and Phuket.

That's quite a step back, from the pre-election promises, that the 300B/day would be immediate and universal across the whole of the country, including those areas which gave PTP it's mandate to rule.

No wonder the workers are revolting, nobody likes to be treated like a fool, good for their representatives for spelling this out to PTP, as they blather on about pilot-schemes in limited-areas next year, and the worthlessness of their campaign-promises is laid bare for all to see.

Exactly.

The word that describes this one and all the other hollow untruths perfectly is "unraveling"

Government Policies Are Unraveling

with the latest unraveling being the rampant skepticism with the 15,000 baht guaranteed income for university graduates.

[KamnanT]

And somebody is going to force me to pay those kinds of people a minimum salary each month?

No way.

I need everyone to be doing their part. No dead wood and no minor wives on the payroll. I need workers or we cannot survive.

Sounds like you need common sense more than a university degree and soon the government will give you a financial incentive to avoid hiring graduates. Not sure this is sending the right kind of message to students or employers.

[edgarfriendly]

if the real owners of the land had their way, everyone would be 'paid' in the cheapest, least nutritious rice available.

cash would be illegal, as would complaining, protesting, reading, asking questions, and hoarding of that crappy rice.

like the saying goes, you get what you pay for...

buckle up!!

ef

[houseinbkk]

And somebody is going to force me to pay those kinds of people a minimum salary each month?

No way.

I need everyone to be doing their part. No dead wood and no minor wives on the payroll. I need workers or we cannot survive.

Sounds like you need common sense more than a university degree and soon the government will give you a financial incentive to avoid hiring graduates. Not sure this is sending the right kind of message to students or employers.

Maybe the underclass will start doing the jobs where you dont really need a degree.

Besides most degrees apart from medical/engineering/science degrees are pretty much vanity projects.

[jdinasia]

The proper place to reject governments that dont honour policies is at the ballot box and not the law courts. If cases were taken out against every government that didnt honour an election promise then there wouldnt be a single government in place in a democracy.

Campaign against PTP, Raise awareness. Hound them. Call for them to resign. Gather signatures. Call for censure. Hold street demos. All of these are legitimate forms of poltical protest and action against government. But not through law courts for policy enactment or lack of it.

Sorry Hammered, but according to the law the courts ARE the place if a political party committed a crime to get into office. The labor Unions are the obvious people to push it through too. Most people seem to believe that the 300 Baht/day minimum wage was not doable from the beginning when it was announced, but PTP assured people they would do it. If they lied to the electorate AND deliberately lying to the electorate is a crime, then it should be taken care of in court. Later, when polls happen again it would behoove the opposition to remind people "those guys are liars" as often as possible, but a general strike or more prolonged street protests are not a good answer for Thailand.

[OzMick]

The proper place to reject governments that dont honour policies is at the ballot box and not the law courts. If cases were taken out against every government that didnt honour an election promise then there wouldnt be a single government in place in a democracy.

Campaign against PTP, Raise awareness. Hound them. Call for them to resign. Gather signatures. Call for censure. Hold street demos. All of these are legitimate forms of poltical protest and action against government. But not through law courts for policy enactment or lack of it.

Sorry Hammered, but according to the law the courts ARE the place if a political party committed a crime to get into office. The labor Unions are the obvious people to push it through too. Most people seem to believe that the 300 Baht/day minimum wage was not doable from the beginning when it was announced, but PTP assured people they would do it. If they lied to the electorate AND deliberately lying to the electorate is a crime, then it should be taken care of in court. Later, when polls happen again it would behoove the opposition to remind people "those guys are liars" as often as possible, but a general strike or more prolonged street protests are not a good answer for Thailand.

Agree100% - Law courts a much better place to sort this than the streets. But was is the penalty under this law? For a single MP likely to be dismissal, but for a party? If they disband PTP, something they are quite prepared for, they will form a government under a new banner and claim (again) that the courts are unfair to the Thaksinistas - and a lot of people will (still) believe it.

[ExpatOilWorker]

Is 6 GBP a day to much to ask?

If you only generate value for 5 GBP, then yes it is a bit over the top.

[Insight]

However, the minister said workers' skills and efficiency must also be developed to be worth the pay rise.

.. and if not, you're for the chop.

A minimum salary is looong overdue in Thailand and - being honest - 6,000 THB per month really isn't that much. However it wouldn't surprise me if its implementation suffers resistance from PT's own bedfellows. And if it's poorly implemented (as it looks like it's going to be) there's a good chance this will backfire on them through disgruntled supporters.

My own biggest concern is how PT/UDD plan to deal with any protests that kick off. It's pretty clear this time around they won't let themselves be run out of power easily, regardless of how legitimate the reason.

I'm not young and this is the first time in my life I've heard of the concept of a national "minimum salary".

An employer should be able to expect to get a return on investment (the person's salary) of at least the amount the person is getting paid plus one Baht to make it the slightest bit worthwhile.

But so many new grads want "money for nothin and chicks for free".

I can't run a business that way.

I need a new grad with a BS in printing technology to be able to tell me the difference between RGB and CMYK. (No applicants could.)

If I ask a university grad the size of A4 paper, I expect him/her to know or to be capable of finding out. (All I got were giggles and a stupid expression with "I don't know. 5555555")

When asked how to find out? (All I got were giggles and a stupid expression with "I don't know. 5555555")

Then I handed the new grads a ruler and asked again, the size of A4 paper?

Yep. You guessed it. They measured it wrong.

And somebody is going to force me to pay those kinds of people a minimum salary each month?

No way.

I need everyone to be doing their part. No dead wood and no minor wives on the payroll. I need workers or we cannot survive.

"Minimum wage" would be a more appropriate wording. The UK has one.

Regarding the rest of your post, however, you don't need to tell me! I work as a software developer - unfortunately we've really had to lower the bar and rely on SQA procedures left, right and center.

My left-ist upbringing makes me lean towards a minimum wage, but from what I've seen from PT/UDD (PTP and TRT) over the years however it's clear they put the interests of a very small few way above the many and are playing the self-preservation game.

So the jury is still out on it for me

Edited September 6, 2011 by Insight

[Bagwan]

When I was a working man it was recognised, in the UK at least, that the total cost to an employer of an employee was about 3 times the salary paid. The total costs included paid holidays, paid sick leave, absence on courses and training schemes, sports and social clubs, pension contributions, office spaces and power utilisation, the list goes on and on. If I were to pay somebody 15k, that employee had better be pulling in at least 50K in revenues or would be moved on PDQ.

[Jingthing]

Why sue? Doesn't taking over Bangkok with a red people's army tend to work better?

[corkman]

Is 6 GBP a day to much to ask?

A Thai associate and friend of mine is involved in their family business. The business manufactures domestic products. Currently, the manufacture everything ehre in Thailand, and employ allot of people (admitedly for a paltry wage). However, they have people queuing up for jobs and many have worked there for many years.

It is sad therefore that once this wage hike is brought in that the majority of these workers will be let go. It is not just the bottom of the pile workers, but the onces who are currently earning 300 per day will expect an increment over their juniors. So instead of continuing to manufacture things here in Thailand, they are now going to import the major componets from China, re-brand them, and sell them on ...... thereby requiring far fewer staff. So, not only is the master stroke wage increase gonna hurt the lowest paid, it is also going to hurt the country by outsourcing to China (and thereby sending money there).

Sad as that is, it is business - and if it were your business, would you take a paycut so your staff could prosper? Everyone will be told that they are being let go, then the select few will be given the oportunity to stay on. Those few are already earning the 300 per day anyway, except now they will feel luck to have kept their jobs rather than disenfranchised fo not getting a pay rise.

This is going to happen in countless numbers of businesses. It is going to raise the cost of basic necessities (the type that low earners need and buy, not us "rich" people with computers etc.). Many will be out of work, while a few will have more money - which will be negated by the increase cost of basic goods...... such as rice (double whammy for families who struggle to buy a sack of it per month)......

The irony of the whole thing here is that the Krimson Cretins will suffer at the hands of their so called liberators..... and they don't even see it..... this bottom tier inflation will have little or no impact on us expats.... I mean if my lunch goes up by 10 baht per day (a 20% increase or 200 baht per month) then its less than the price of 1 beer at the JW Marriot..... but for some poor sod now earning 300 baht per day, than is going to be a big hit..... let alone the poor sod who no longer has a job.

So..... is £6UK per day too much to ask..... no, it is not - not on the face of it..... but looking at the bigger picture, its a disaster for the working-poor.

Edited September 6, 2011 by corkman

[atyclb]

Is 6 GBP a day to much to ask?

Not at all. Ever person on this planet deserves a fair wage. At least a wage that they can live off of.

The education system needs to train their minds how to think so the staff at lets say Big C actually knows something about the products they try to sell gathered around you. This is not a language issue but a cognitive issue cause you will become even more saddened when you reach the point of conversational Thai ability and realize there is a big gap bewtween the right and left ears.

[corkman]

Is 6 GBP a day to much to ask?

Not at all. Ever person on this planet deserves a fair wage. At least a wage that they can live off of.

The education system needs to train their minds how to think so the staff at lets say Big C actually knows something about the products they try to sell gathered around you. This is not a language issue but a cognitive issue cause you will become even more saddened when you reach the point of conversational Thai ability and realize there is a big gap bewtween the right and left ears.

Firstly: " there is a big gap bewtween the right and left ears" :lol: 55555555555555 - I love it :lol:

My wife comes from a poor, but large family.

Her parents have worked hard and sacrified alot to give her and her siblings a better chance in life - rather than just kicking back when they were 40 and saying "we're old now, time for the kids to work" even if they are only 15yrs old. Meanwhile, my wife's cousins are less fortunate. Their parents (wife's uncles and aunts) are now up in the boonies, done the usual lazy cannot be arsed thing - booted their kids out the door to work in order that they cold sit on their royal arse watching channel 7 and sipping that cheap crap whiskey-in-a-beer-bottle.

My wife and siblings are now ridiculed, because they are "rich" and will not "share" their "luck" with the poor disenfranchised villagers, who have "never been given a chance" because of "poor education" and all that quitter-cannot-be bothered poverty trap propoganda tripe. I would imagine my inlaws now fall into the ranks of "bangkok elite". My wife of course has done well, marrying a farang..... but that's another story.

It is not that they cannot work, they don't want to work. They do not comprehend that if you invest in your future and work hard that over time it pays dividends. I personally know plenty of her cousins that come to Bangkok and the provinces, work for a month, get pissed with having to work and so either (a) sod off home with a chip on their shoulder because they cannot start on a managers wage, or ( b ) get pissed, crash a bike, get arrested, or do some other stupid thing. Those who prove themselves worthy, are rewarded as such, and prosper - the plodders in life (also know are cranks and moaners) will always be that.... plodders.... blaming everyone but themselves for not working their way out of their own situation.

Edited September 6, 2011 by corkman

[houseinbkk]

So, not only is the master stroke wage increase gonna hurt the lowest paid, it is also going to hurt the country by outsourcing to China (and thereby sending money there).

You seem to ignore the fact of wage inflation in China by the state, this is hardly a populist policy to get the Chinese govt voted back in, more a necessity so people can afford to live.

Free govt housing would be the best alternative to legal minimum wage levels.

[corkman]

So, not only is the master stroke wage increase gonna hurt the lowest paid, it is also going to hurt the country by outsourcing to China (and thereby sending money there).

You seem to ignore the fact of wage inflation in China by the state, this is hardly a populist policy to get the Chinese govt voted back in, more a necessity so people can afford to live.

Free govt housing would be the best alternative to legal minimum wage levels.

I merely mean (speaking in broad strokes) that encouraging net export over import is a better economic policy.

Notwithstanding the point I am trying to make above, suddenly putting more money in pockets will encourage more imports of fancy stuff and simultaeously it is going to become cheaper to import basic comodities (such as rice).

Edited September 6, 2011 by corkman

[houseinbkk]

So, not only is the master stroke wage increase gonna hurt the lowest paid, it is also going to hurt the country by outsourcing to China (and thereby sending money there).

You seem to ignore the fact of wage inflation in China by the state, this is hardly a populist policy to get the Chinese govt voted back in, more a necessity so people can afford to live.

Free govt housing would be the best alternative to legal minimum wage levels.

I merely mean (speaking in broad strokes) that encouraging net export over import is a better economic policy.

Notwithstanding the point I am trying to make above, suddenly putting more money in pockets will encourage more imports of fancy stuff and simultaeously it is going to become cheaper to import basic comodities (such as rice).

I accept what youre getting at.

Thailand has huge tariffs on imported goods, which cant last much longer if the west is going to get back on its feet, interesting times if youve enough money to watch the goings on from an ivory tower as most us farang can!

[lannarebirth]

A chicken in every pot and a car in every garage – Herbert Hoover

"I promise that I will make all Thai people rich within six months." - Thaksin Shinawatra

.

A fine testament to what a cocksucker he is and what little regard he has for Thai people. Still, he has his cheerleaders here, as mind boggling as that is.

[rubl]

The proper place to reject governments that dont honour policies is at the ballot box and not the law courts. If cases were taken out against every government that didnt honour an election promise then there wouldnt be a single government in place in a democracy.

Campaign against PTP, Raise awareness. Hound them. Call for them to resign. Gather signatures. Call for censure. Hold street demos. All of these are legitimate forms of poltical protest and action against government. But not through law courts for policy enactment or lack of it.

Sorry Hammered, but according to the law the courts ARE the place if a political party committed a crime to get into office. The labor Unions are the obvious people to push it through too. Most people seem to believe that the 300 Baht/day minimum wage was not doable from the beginning when it was announced, but PTP assured people they would do it. If they lied to the electorate AND deliberately lying to the electorate is a crime, then it should be taken care of in court. Later, when polls happen again it would behoove the opposition to remind people "those guys are liars" as often as possible, but a general strike or more prolonged street protests are not a good answer for Thailand.

Agree100% - Law courts a much better place to sort this than the streets. But was is the penalty under this law? For a single MP likely to be dismissal, but for a party? If they disband PTP, something they are quite prepared for, they will form a government under a new banner and claim (again) that the courts are unfair to the Thaksinistas - and a lot of people will (still) believe it.

Personally I think both options are possible in a democracy. I must admit taking the ruling government to court accusing them of not fulfilling their election promises seems a bit overdone. Now if promises AFTER the government was formed AND without a valid justification ...

To say 'let them protest', 'vote differently next time' doesn't help much either. Especially with a government still saying 'give us some time', 'Thaksin amnesty', 'oh, THB 100,000 tax deduction doesn't work for poor people?', etc., etc.

Still I'm sure all those red-shirt spokespeople just appointed (nice salary, pension, etc.) will be able to tell us how promises work in a democracy, how anyone trying to derail this government must be out of his mind, and how we red-shirts will protect this government and get to the streets again if need be.

There must be some logic in this, but frankly it does escape me

Edited September 6, 2011 by rubl

[virtualtraveller]

Like everything in Economics 101, it's a delicate balance of fiscal and monetary decisions. Raise the minimum wage and you get higher unemployment. Some businesses will somehow manage to accommodate the rise, others will adjust by employing less people and expecting them to achieve a similar output level.

Thailand has a remarkably low unemployment rate so it can afford to tamper, however, with poor law enforcement, lack of strong unions, and a large informal sector, the chances are that raising of minimum wages will not be too effective. It will be a nice PR stunt for the govt, but just how many pockets will get boosted is debatable.

[Buchholz]

Is 6 GBP a day to much to ask?

Amazingly enough, in Thailand, it's enough to get a credit card

Wage Hike Policy to Benefit Credit Card Market

The Bank of Ayudhya believes the government's policy to increase the daily minimum wage to 300 baht across the nation will lead to a rise in the number of credit card holders.

Executive Vice-President of the Bank of Ayudhya, Thakorn Piyapan said the bank has launched a new product, the Krungsri Debit First Choice Card, that functions as a credit card, an ATM card, and a tool for installment payments, targeting individuals whose income is not less than 8,000 baht per month.

In the meantime, Nayanee Peaugkham, Vice-President of Ayudhya Capital Services' Personal Loan and Sales Finance Division, said that she believes the Pheu Thai-led government's policy to raise the daily minimum wage to 300 baht nationwide will encourage the expansion of cardholders and heat up competition in the credit card market.

Nayanee noted that the Bank of Ayudhya has issued a total of three million ATM and debit cards and expects the number of new credit cards issued by the bank to reach 850,000 by the end of this year.

-- Tan Network 2011-09-07