Bhumibol Dam At Record-High Level

[webfact]

Harvest crop by Saturday, farmers told

By THE NATION

The Royal Irrigation Department yesterday told all rice farmers along the Chao Phraya to harvest their crop by Saturday as the level of the river was rising rapidly.

With the water level already increasing by between 10 and 15 centimetres a day, people living along the Chao Phraya are being advised to move their belongings to higher ground.

"More rain is coming," said Weera Wongsangnak, deputy director-general of the department.

He said the forecast was also for heavy rain to drench the lower North and the central region from tomorrow night through next Monday.

Weera said the Bhumibol Dam, which is located in Tak province, was experiencing its highest-ever level.

"The dam now has 10.734 million cubic metres of water. It has reached about 80 per cent of its capacity, which is a record high," he said.

He added that if the rainfall continued into early October, the dam might have to release water and that would mean a higher level in the Ping River, and then the Chao Phraya.

In the wake of the rising level of the Chao Phraya, 64 villages in Pathum Thani province have been declared disaster areas.

"These villages are located outside embankment zones," Pathum Thani Governor Phirasak Hinmueangkao said yesterday. "The situation is worrying."

In Ayutthaya, all houses along the Chao Phraya have been inundated, with two locals dying in flood-related incidents on Monday night.

The first victim, 62-year-old Samran Kongkermpoong, drowned. The second, 79-year-old Nipa sae Lee, was electrocuted while trying to move her refrigerator to a higher location in her flooded house.

The Agriculture Ministry yesterday reported to the Cabinet that as of September 2, flooding had hit 20 provinces: Uttaradit, Sukhothai, Tak, Phitsanulok, Phichit, Nakhon Sawan, Chai Nat, Sing Buri, Angthong, Ayutthaya, Nakhon Phanom, Sakon Nakhon, Kalasin, Roi Et, Amnat Charoen, Yasothon, Ubon Ratchathani, Nakhon Nayok, Prachin Buri and Chon Buri.

Four districts of Amnat Charoen are now officially disaster zones.

"We are surveying flooded paddy fields," said Amnat Charoen Governor Kaenpetch Chuang-rangsi.

It is believed that the inundation has already damaged more than 3.53 million rai of farmland in flooded provinces, most of the affected areas being paddy fields.

After emerging from the Cabinet meeting, Prime Minister Yingluck Shinawatra said she had instructed agencies to speed up the payment of compensation to flood-hit farmers.

"Usually, payment takes place within 90 days of floods subsiding. But I have told the relevant authorities that the process should be completed within 60 days instead," she said.

Government Spokeswoman Thitima Chaisang said the Cabinet had approved about Bt886 million for the handout of financial assistance to flood-hit families.

"Each family will get Bt5,000," she said. It is estimated that 174,383 families will be eligible for the financial aid.

Yingluck instructed all Cabinet members to visit flood victims.

She also told Agriculture Minister Theera Wongsamut and Natural Resources and Environment Minister Preecha Rengsomboonsuk to check whether any plots of land could be rented with a view to diverting surplus water from the Chao Phraya. This would help protect Bangkok and Ayutthaya from the overflowing river.

-- The Nation 2011-09-07

[Ricardo]

Is there some technical reason, why a dam which is only 80% full, needs to release water at such an inconvenient time, does anyone know ? Just seems odd to build the last 20%, if it never has been & never will be used, for the purpose for which it was constructed.

[Thai at Heart]

Is there some technical reason, why a dam which is only 80% full, needs to release water at such an inconvenient time, does anyone know ? Just seems odd to build the last 20%, if it never has been & never will be used, for the purpose for which it was constructed.

Better than getting it to 100% with the rain still falling. That was what happened in Korat last year, which resulted in? A more massive flood than should have happened.

[tigermonkey]

I was amazed while watching the newa a few days ago on Channel 3 -- they showed some video shot at night in residential areas with more than a meter of flood water , but I was shocked that all the houses still had their lights on. They had not shut off the electricity ! This certainly seemd to be a recipe for unnnecessary deaths, and I wondered how many had died / would die from this lack of foresight.

..and today we get the report " The second, 79-year-old Nipa sae Lee, was electrocuted while trying to move her refrigerator to a higher location in her flooded house." I doubt that this is the first ....... or the last death.

[TommyDee]

Is there some technical reason, why a dam which is only 80% full, needs to release water at such an inconvenient time, does anyone know ? Just seems odd to build the last 20%, if it never has been & never will be used, for the purpose for which it was constructed.

not really. its a matter of management. at 100% capacity everything would be under max stress and there would be no room to take any more. in the event of further storms the dam would overflow which would be very dangerous

controlled release, however undesireable, allows them to maintain a workable level and control the flow to a greater extent

[Thai at Heart]

Is there some technical reason, why a dam which is only 80% full, needs to release water at such an inconvenient time, does anyone know ? Just seems odd to build the last 20%, if it never has been & never will be used, for the purpose for which it was constructed.

not really. its a matter of management. at 100% capacity everything would be under max stress and there would be no room to take any more. in the event of further storms the dam would overflow which would be very dangerous

controlled release, however undesireable, allows them to maintain a workable level and control the flow to a greater extent

Also, they will be trying to provide capacity to match with the tides in the Chao Praya.

[Ricardo]

Is there some technical reason, why a dam which is only 80% full, needs to release water at such an inconvenient time, does anyone know ? Just seems odd to build the last 20%, if it never has been & never will be used, for the purpose for which it was constructed.

Better than getting it to 100% with the rain still falling. That was what happened in Korat last year, which resulted in? A more massive flood than should have happened.

If it's 100% full (or near), and the rain keeps falling, then there will definitely be a flood anyway. Unavoidable.

But if it's only at 80%, and they choose serious & damaging floods now, they seem to be guaranteeing something which is currently only a distict-possibility, wouldn't they feel stupid if the rain did ease-up a bit next week ? I'd keep the flood-gates closed, and hope for the river to subside for longer, before letting the flood-water through. Am I thinking too-much like a farang ?

[Thai at Heart]

Is there some technical reason, why a dam which is only 80% full, needs to release water at such an inconvenient time, does anyone know ? Just seems odd to build the last 20%, if it never has been & never will be used, for the purpose for which it was constructed.

Better than getting it to 100% with the rain still falling. That was what happened in Korat last year, which resulted in? A more massive flood than should have happened.

If it's 100% full (or near), and the rain keeps falling, then there will definitely be a flood anyway. Unavoidable.

But if it's only at 80%, and they choose serious & damaging floods now, they seem to be guaranteeing something which is currently only a distict-possibility, wouldn't they feel stupid if the rain did ease-up a bit next week ? I'd keep the flood-gates closed, and hope for the river to subside for longer, before letting the flood-water through. Am I thinking too-much like a farang ?

Hey I am not a hydrologist, but getting 100% capacity is extremely dangerous as far as I know. The north and north east have been getting deluged now for the last month. Chiangmai has got over 600mm in the last month, and it will be coming South sometime soon, with more rain forecast. It all has to go out somewhere, and I can tell you, no political party wants to be responsible for inundating Bangkok. The Dems pulled it off by inches last year, in previous years they have flooded enormous areas in Petchabun/North of Ayuttaya just to save Bangkok.

More rain is coming,

He added that if the rainfall continued into early October, the dam might have to release water and that would mean a higher level in the Ping River, and then the Chao Phraya.

In Ayutthaya, all houses along the Chao Phraya have been inundated,

Please note, the Chao Praya is the big wet thing that goes through the centre of Bangkok.

[TommyDee]

Is there some technical reason, why a dam which is only 80% full, needs to release water at such an inconvenient time, does anyone know ? Just seems odd to build the last 20%, if it never has been & never will be used, for the purpose for which it was constructed.

Better than getting it to 100% with the rain still falling. That was what happened in Korat last year, which resulted in? A more massive flood than should have happened.

If it's 100% full (or near), and the rain keeps falling, then there will definitely be a flood anyway. Unavoidable.

But if it's only at 80%, and they choose serious & damaging floods now, they seem to be guaranteeing something which is currently only a distict-possibility, wouldn't they feel stupid if the rain did ease-up a bit next week ? I'd keep the flood-gates closed, and hope for the river to subside for longer, before letting the flood-water through. Am I thinking too-much like a farang ?

my guess is you have to include stress in the equation. 100% would provide max stress on the dam. overflowing would effect even more. the amounts they can expect in the next few weeks are easy to predict in some ways, because the rain has already fallen but not yet reached the river. add to that the rain predicted and you have a problem.

controlled release can be at a slower rate than were there no dam, ( of were it overflowing) matched with the tides it can control and limit the damage. whereas if the dam itself were damaged the effect could be major major. we do have another 7 weeks of rain yet at least!

[webfact]

RID concerned over more floods in mid-Sep

BANGKOK, 7 September 2011 (NNT) – The Royal Irrigation Department (RID) has expressed concerns over the possibility of additional flooding within the central region in the middle of this month while urging farmers to harvest their crops by 10 September.

After meeting with related agencies to evaluate the flood situation, Deputy Director-General of the RID Weera Wongsaengnak indicated that a monsoon trough was in the forecast for the central part of the country during 9-12 September, bringing more rain to the area. In addition, more water is about to be released from Bhumibol and Sirikit Dams, which could cause the water level in the Chao Phraya River to rise in mid-September.

Due to the expected downpour in combination with the surging river, Mr Weera deemed the situation worrying as the catastrophes in 2002 and 2010 could be repeated, especially in provinces located on the east side of the Chao Phraya River such as Lop Buri.

The department has also warned rice farmers of possible losses to be incurred by the upcoming disaster. Officials have thus been sent out to seek the farmers’ cooperation in harvesting their crops before 10 September, which is when the water will need to be released from the dams due to their full capacity.

-- NNT 2011-09-07

[rogerdee123]

Is there some technical reason, why a dam which is only 80% full, needs to release water at such an inconvenient time, does anyone know ? Just seems odd to build the last 20%, if it never has been & never will be used, for the purpose for which it was constructed.

Better than getting it to 100% with the rain still falling. That was what happened in Korat last year, which resulted in? A more massive flood than should have happened.

All these dam builders claim that the dams prevent flooding and provide water during the dry season .... when they often do just the opposite. Lots of fortunes have been made on dam construction ... i.e. the fortunes from the construction contracts ... and this makes them popular projects.

[thaiphoon]

1 off-topic post has been removed.

[atyclb]

I was amazed while watching the newa a few days ago on Channel 3 -- they showed some video shot at night in residential areas with more than a meter of flood water , but I was shocked that all the houses still had their lights on. They had not shut off the electricity ! This certainly seemd to be a recipe for unnnecessary deaths, and I wondered how many had died / would die from this lack of foresight.

..and today we get the report " The second, 79-year-old Nipa sae Lee, was electrocuted while trying to move her refrigerator to a higher location in her flooded house." I doubt that this is the first ....... or the last death.

Stuff like this demonstrates how the lack of the most basic simplistic "critical thinking" can actually kill people unnecessarily. In this case the inability to connect a few dots.

[OzMick]

Is there some technical reason, why a dam which is only 80% full, needs to release water at such an inconvenient time, does anyone know ? Just seems odd to build the last 20%, if it never has been & never will be used, for the purpose for which it was constructed.

Better than getting it to 100% with the rain still falling. That was what happened in Korat last year, which resulted in? A more massive flood than should have happened.

All these dam builders claim that the dams prevent flooding and provide water during the dry season .... when they often do just the opposite. Lots of fortunes have been made on dam construction ... i.e. the fortunes from the construction contracts ... and this makes them popular projects.

Dams MITIGATE floods, no-one should ever claim that they prevent them. How does a dam absorb water during the dry season (the opposite of providing)?

I agree with Ricardo. A properly constructed and designed dam should be nowhere near failing at 110% design capacity with 100-150mm water height above the spillway. The biggest problem would be the uncontrolled spill flow. I'm not claiming to know anything about this system, but I was previously regularly ordered to pump into a dam until 150mm above spillway height was achieved. This allowed flushing of salts from the cooling pond dam during times of high river flow without problems from the EPA.

[Chalard]

Let the dam fill to it's capacity. Then there is plenty of water for hydro-electric power & irrigation outside the rainy season without flooding. Adding more water into the full rivers now only worsens the peoples problems from the excessive rainfall.

[Ricardo]

Shouldn't the spillway(s) be able to pass-on at-least as much water, as can flow into the reservoir, under maximum-rainfall conditions ? That would seem to me, as a casual observer, be a fairly-basic design-requirement ? And if not, is a 20%-margin the least which can be risked ?

Whatever, one can only hope that the policy to release water now, when the dam's only at 80%, doesn't lead to flooding or deaths/damage worse than it might otherwise have been.

Good Luck to all those down-stream !

[rogerdee123]

Is there some technical reason, why a dam which is only 80% full, needs to release water at such an inconvenient time, does anyone know ? Just seems odd to build the last 20%, if it never has been & never will be used, for the purpose for which it was constructed.

Better than getting it to 100% with the rain still falling. That was what happened in Korat last year, which resulted in? A more massive flood than should have happened.

All these dam builders claim that the dams prevent flooding and provide water during the dry season .... when they often do just the opposite. Lots of fortunes have been made on dam construction ... i.e. the fortunes from the construction contracts ... and this makes them popular projects.

Dams MITIGATE floods, no-one should ever claim that they prevent them. How does a dam absorb water during the dry season (the opposite of providing)?

I agree with Ricardo. A properly constructed and designed dam should be nowhere near failing at 110% design capacity with 100-150mm water height above the spillway. The biggest problem would be the uncontrolled spill flow. I'm not claiming to know anything about this system, but I was previously regularly ordered to pump into a dam until 150mm above spillway height was achieved. This allowed flushing of salts from the cooling pond dam during times of high river flow without problems from the EPA.

>>How does a dam absorb water during the dry season (the opposite of providing)?<<

Who said dams absorb water? I also didn't say dams create water!

They block and reduce the river's flow during the dry season. Any farmer living below the dam will tell you this .. and those around here will also tell you why the additional drop in river levels (below the dam) during the dry season affects his irrigation.

Edited September 7, 2011 by rogerdee123

[ResX]

Is there some technical reason, why a dam which is only 80% full, needs to release water at such an inconvenient time, does anyone know ? Just seems odd to build the last 20%, if it never has been & never will be used, for the purpose for which it was constructed.

Simple SOP for the operations of a flood control dam, they shall keep at most 50% filled before flood season. I think they realized they speculated wrongly that there would be no big flood this year to justify keeping 80% full even before the flood season. At this time they probably wanted to make up their previous mistake. Unfortunately, it didn't work that way.

There is another reason that I can think of. From what I can learn from internet, this dam has no natural overflow spillway. In this case, if the rainfall is higher then the dam can contain, then the dam will become the main contributor to the flood downstream. In order to minimize the future possible impact towards flood downstream, they were trying to hedge the risk by releasing small amount of water but longer duration to create additional storage. As far as I can see there was no technical mistake at this point of time. It was the right thing to do assuming the dam does not have natural overflow spillway. My main concern is, they should not place themselves under this scenario in the first place. They should keep the dam not higher than 50% full prior the flood season and hoped it was the flood that is going fill up the remaining 50%. After all this is how a flood control dam should work.

Edited October 26, 2011 by ResX

[ResX]

Is there some technical reason, why a dam which is only 80% full, needs to release water at such an inconvenient time, does anyone know ? Just seems odd to build the last 20%, if it never has been & never will be used, for the purpose for which it was constructed.

Better than getting it to 100% with the rain still falling. That was what happened in Korat last year, which resulted in? A more massive flood than should have happened.

All these dam builders claim that the dams prevent flooding and provide water during the dry season .... when they often do just the opposite. Lots of fortunes have been made on dam construction ... i.e. the fortunes from the construction contracts ... and this makes them popular projects.

Dams MITIGATE floods, no-one should ever claim that they prevent them. How does a dam absorb water during the dry season (the opposite of providing)?

I agree with Ricardo. A properly constructed and designed dam should be nowhere near failing at 110% design capacity with 100-150mm water height above the spillway. The biggest problem would be the uncontrolled spill flow. I'm not claiming to know anything about this system, but I was previously regularly ordered to pump into a dam until 150mm above spillway height was achieved. This allowed flushing of salts from the cooling pond dam during times of high river flow without problems from the EPA.

Actually, a modern flood control dam has to have at least 4m additional dam height. This is called storage for out of design flood reservation. This storage will in incorporated with free overflow natural spillway. This spillway will try to balance the flood downstream and upstream. Keeping some. Releasing some. Naturally done. Any dam that does not have overflow natural spillway you can expect its reservoir is saved from flood. Why? It just passes the flood water downstream! Yes it saves itself from flood but, unfortunately the downstream will be taking even bigger hit. Just imagine you have 4 dams up stream of CH river. All four passed their flood waters downstream.......

[serenitynow]

Is there some technical reason, why a dam which is only 80% full, needs to release water at such an inconvenient time, does anyone know ? Just seems odd to build the last 20%, if it never has been & never will be used, for the purpose for which it was constructed.

Simple SOP for the operations of a flood control dam, they shall keep at most 50% filled before flood season. I think they realized they speculated wrongly that there would be no big flood this year to justify keeping 80% full even before the flood season. At this time they probably wanted to make up their previous mistake. Unfortunately, it didn't work that way.

There is another reason that I can think of. From what I can learn from internet, this dam has no natural overflow spillway. In this case, if the rainfall is higher then the dam can contain, then the dam will become the main contributor to the flood downstream. In order to minimize the future possible impact towards flood downstream, they were trying to hedge the risk by releasing small amount of water but longer duration to create additional storage. As far as I can see there was no technical mistake at this point of time. It was the right thing to do assuming the dam does not have natural overflow spillway. My main concern is, they should not place themselves under this scenario in the first place. They should keep the dam not higher than 50% full prior the flood season and hoped it was the flood that is going fill up the remaining 50%. After all this is how a flood control dam should work.

Thanks for dragging up this thread, I couldn't find it. It shows that when this administration took power that the authorities responsible for water storage and flood control had managed the situation very well to that point. There was excess capacity for storage and storm surges in volume because as needed they had released water all along. Where this government differed in poilcy is that they didn't relaease water when the next rains came they just let it build up to overcapacity. Then they were force3d to release during a time of continuing rainfall. This is a MANMADE flood and the deaths and disease of hundreds, and I expect thousands of people are squarely the responsibility of the buffoons who are now in office. I'll stop short of saying they've done this by design, because I can't think of anyone that evil, but it is hard to imagine anyone, novice or not who could make so many grave errors on a continual basis.

[ResX]

Is there some technical reason, why a dam which is only 80% full, needs to release water at such an inconvenient time, does anyone know ? Just seems odd to build the last 20%, if it never has been & never will be used, for the purpose for which it was constructed.

Simple SOP for the operations of a flood control dam, they shall keep at most 50% filled before flood season. I think they realized they speculated wrongly that there would be no big flood this year to justify keeping 80% full even before the flood season. At this time they probably wanted to make up their previous mistake. Unfortunately, it didn't work that way.

There is another reason that I can think of. From what I can learn from internet, this dam has no natural overflow spillway. In this case, if the rainfall is higher then the dam can contain, then the dam will become the main contributor to the flood downstream. In order to minimize the future possible impact towards flood downstream, they were trying to hedge the risk by releasing small amount of water but longer duration to create additional storage. As far as I can see there was no technical mistake at this point of time. It was the right thing to do assuming the dam does not have natural overflow spillway. My main concern is, they should not place themselves under this scenario in the first place. They should keep the dam not higher than 50% full prior the flood season and hoped it was the flood that is going fill up the remaining 50%. After all this is how a flood control dam should work.

Thanks for dragging up this thread, I couldn't find it. It shows that when this administration took power that the authorities responsible for water storage and flood control had managed the situation very well to that point. There was excess capacity for storage and storm surges in volume because as needed they had released water all along. Where this government differed in poilcy is that they didn't relaease water when the next rains came they just let it build up to overcapacity. Then they were force3d to release during a time of continuing rainfall. This is a MANMADE flood and the deaths and disease of hundreds, and I expect thousands of people are squarely the responsibility of the buffoons who are now in office. I'll stop short of saying they've done this by design, because I can't think of anyone that evil, but it is hard to imagine anyone, novice or not who could make so many grave errors on a continual basis.

I don't really know if it was intentionally done. Other than that sadly speaking I do agree with you. Up to 2002 or 2003 both Bhumibol and Sirkit were well managed to deal with their floods. I paid a visit to these two dams and I was briefed the dams SOPs by their engineers. At that time. I had little to complaint.

[serenitynow]

Is there some technical reason, why a dam which is only 80% full, needs to release water at such an inconvenient time, does anyone know ? Just seems odd to build the last 20%, if it never has been & never will be used, for the purpose for which it was constructed.

Simple SOP for the operations of a flood control dam, they shall keep at most 50% filled before flood season. I think they realized they speculated wrongly that there would be no big flood this year to justify keeping 80% full even before the flood season. At this time they probably wanted to make up their previous mistake. Unfortunately, it didn't work that way.

There is another reason that I can think of. From what I can learn from internet, this dam has no natural overflow spillway. In this case, if the rainfall is higher then the dam can contain, then the dam will become the main contributor to the flood downstream. In order to minimize the future possible impact towards flood downstream, they were trying to hedge the risk by releasing small amount of water but longer duration to create additional storage. As far as I can see there was no technical mistake at this point of time. It was the right thing to do assuming the dam does not have natural overflow spillway. My main concern is, they should not place themselves under this scenario in the first place. They should keep the dam not higher than 50% full prior the flood season and hoped it was the flood that is going fill up the remaining 50%. After all this is how a flood control dam should work.

Thanks for dragging up this thread, I couldn't find it. It shows that when this administration took power that the authorities responsible for water storage and flood control had managed the situation very well to that point. There was excess capacity for storage and storm surges in volume because as needed they had released water all along. Where this government differed in poilcy is that they didn't relaease water when the next rains came they just let it build up to overcapacity. Then they were force3d to release during a time of continuing rainfall. This is a MANMADE flood and the deaths and disease of hundreds, and I expect thousands of people are squarely the responsibility of the buffoons who are now in office. I'll stop short of saying they've done this by design, because I can't think of anyone that evil, but it is hard to imagine anyone, novice or not who could make so many grave errors on a continual basis.

I don't really know if it was intentionally done. Other than that sadly speaking I do agree with you. Up to 2002 or 2003 both Bhumibol and Sirkit were well managed to deal with their floods. I paid a visit to these two dams and I was briefed the dams SOPs by their engineers. At that time. I had little to complaint.

Progress in Thailand has ground to a halt since 2002-2003. You can guess why.

[ResX]

Shouldn't the spillway(s) be able to pass-on at-least as much water, as can flow into the reservoir, under maximum-rainfall conditions ? That would seem to me, as a casual observer, be a fairly-basic design-requirement ? And if not, is a 20%-margin the least which can be risked ?

Whatever, one can only hope that the policy to release water now, when the dam's only at 80%, doesn't lead to flooding or deaths/damage worse than it might otherwise have been.

Good Luck to all those down-stream !

But the flood can be triggered by such release. The main idea is to average up the flood flow. Let me explain further. If you run the dam without reserve (full capacity) the dam has to release flood water based on instantaneous basis. Says you have 5,000m3/s (430milliom/d) of flood flow over 24 hours duration ( I estimated average flow for Bhumibol is around 25million m3/d) then you have to release them all. If you have additional storage says 200million m3, then you can release half and keep the other half. Yes I know it is a very complex operation. Yes. It involves "deadly" speculation. Yes, the decision makers can be blamed if the flood event doesn't go the they have predicted.

It is helpful if the dams authorities make it simple. Put a speculation a side. Develop SOP that taking care the interests of every all stakeholders. Revisit the adequacy of the current dams designs. Regulate the SOP religiously. The future big floods, more often provide no clue of their comings.

[ResX]

Progress in Thailand has ground to a halt since 2002-2003. You can guess why.

No. I have no idea at all.