What Are These Noises?

[Lickey]

OP doesnt say if his Car is an automatic or not, if its an Auto its possible the flex plate is cracked, this is the plate the tourque converter bolts on, and a starter motor causes different stresses on the plate, as its only turning the engine from one place. it could also cause a droning noise at speed, the lack of this noise at a warm start-up could be due to expansion and an easier engine to turn over.

It hasnt been mentioned here that a 4cyl engine stops in 2 places, a 6 cyl engine stops in 3 different places, this is the case with manual or auto transmissions, so the flex-plate/flywheel ring gear could be worn and also the starter cog.

An easy check with a manual is to put the car in 2/3 rd gear push it enough to turn the engine about 30% and then try the starter, with an auto, you can turn the engine a bit on the front pulleys, try starting it,

Op says that the noise is constant at 80k, so that really rules out anything engine wise, or the noise would be at the same RPM in any gear, so its speed related rather than RPM related, possibly a wheel bearing, perhaps OPs car has had too many pressure washes, 2/3 bar water pressure will eventualy get into the bearings and dry them out,

[culicine]

OP doesnt say if his Car is an automatic or not, if its an Auto its possible the flex plate is cracked, this is the plate the tourque converter bolts on, and a starter motor causes different stresses on the plate, as its only turning the engine from one place. it could also cause a droning noise at speed, the lack of this noise at a warm start-up could be due to expansion and an easier engine to turn over.

It hasnt been mentioned here that a 4cyl engine stops in 2 places, a 6 cyl engine stops in 3 different places, this is the case with manual or auto transmissions, so the flex-plate/flywheel ring gear could be worn and also the starter cog.

An easy check with a manual is to put the car in 2/3 rd gear push it enough to turn the engine about 30% and then try the starter, with an auto, you can turn the engine a bit on the front pulleys, try starting it,

Op says that the noise is constant at 80k, so that really rules out anything engine wise, or the noise would be at the same RPM in any gear, so its speed related rather than RPM related, possibly a wheel bearing, perhaps OPs car has had too many pressure washes, 2/3 bar water pressure will eventualy get into the bearings and dry them out,

Thanks Lickey, it's a 2.0 automatic 5 speed. I think the starter noise and the driving noise are not relater, as the starter noise has been happening for severl months prior to the noise at driving speed.

This morning I turned the key and left it in the start position for about 10 seconds. Started the engine and no noise. The noise that occurs is the same noise you get when you try to start the engine and it's already running, if that helps. I think we've all done that at one time or another. It's as if something needs a few second to warm up. Quite strange!

Edited September 8, 2011 by culicine

[Semper]

OP doesnt say if his Car is an automatic or not, if its an Auto its possible the flex plate is cracked, this is the plate the tourque converter bolts on, and a starter motor causes different stresses on the plate, as its only turning the engine from one place. it could also cause a droning noise at speed, the lack of this noise at a warm start-up could be due to expansion and an easier engine to turn over.

It hasnt been mentioned here that a 4cyl engine stops in 2 places, a 6 cyl engine stops in 3 different places, this is the case with manual or auto transmissions, so the flex-plate/flywheel ring gear could be worn and also the starter cog.

An easy check with a manual is to put the car in 2/3 rd gear push it enough to turn the engine about 30% and then try the starter, with an auto, you can turn the engine a bit on the front pulleys, try starting it,

Op says that the noise is constant at 80k, so that really rules out anything engine wise, or the noise would be at the same RPM in any gear, so its speed related rather than RPM related, possibly a wheel bearing, perhaps OPs car has had too many pressure washes, 2/3 bar water pressure will eventualy get into the bearings and dry them out,

Thanks Lickey, it's a 2.0 automatic 5 speed. I think the starter noise and the driving noise are not relater, as the starter noise has been happening for severl months prior to the noise at driving speed.

This morning I turned the key and left it in the start position for about 10 seconds. Started the engine and no noise. The noise that occurs is the same noise you get when you try to start the engine and it's already running, if that helps. I think we've all done that at one time or another. It's as if something needs a few second to warm up. Quite strange!

This morning I turned the key and left it in the start position for about 10 seconds. Started the engine and no noise.

Problem no.1 solved.

[WarpSpeed]

The fact that a warm up by turning the key and then starting solves the problem it points quite definitively to the starter motor. It sounds now as if the starter solenoid is not kicking in the Bendix drive with enough power to engage the flywheel (what Lickey refers to as a flex plate) and turn over the motor on initial attempts and by waiting a moment it's heating up first and then kicking in so it isn't getting full power initially, this is the purpose for the solenoid, it builds up enough power to kick the Bendix forward with full force and hold it there while the teeth are engaged, usually though that is instantaneous..

If this continues as Lickey says it will damage the flywheel eventually as the teeth get ground down not being fully engaged when the starter turns and as it disengages it chews the teeth down as it normally gets kicked back by the engine disengaging it cleanly by starting so best to get it repaired before it becomes more expensive by having to remove the tranny and replace the flywheel...

[Lickey]

Culicine, sorry i forgot to add some more info, it was late when i posted and memory was a little hazy, as Warpy correctly said, he didnt understand the starter delay, very unusual,

But this kinda thing used to happen quite often in the big truck industry, i was on 24hr call out for trucks for many years, and i always got calls on monday mornings for non-starters, the starter would just whizz or engage and do nothing, i would tell them leave it for 20 mins, if it doest start call me again, i didnt get many replys,

It seemed like the batteries would go into hibernation over the weekend after doing 3000 odd miles the previous week and needed waking up, of course eventually the batteries would die, but not before the opo got the best out of them,,

So perhaps have your battery checked for a dead cell, gassing ect, ,,,

[wandrinstar]

Hows the Battery, if its weak it doesnt wack the bendix very hard. Also NSF Wheel Bearing goes first on Civics, can you hear a drone from the N.S footwell ?.. Tyre Plus do a bearing change very cheap. about 900 Simpsons.Your fairly Lo Milage,so that pressure wash comment is valid , and often overlooked. Lickey has clearly BEEN There , nice logic Mate.

[culicine]

Culicine, sorry i forgot to add some more info, it was late when i posted and memory was a little hazy, as Warpy correctly said, he didnt understand the starter delay, very unusual,

But this kinda thing used to happen quite often in the big truck industry, i was on 24hr call out for trucks for many years, and i always got calls on monday mornings for non-starters, the starter would just whizz or engage and do nothing, i would tell them leave it for 20 mins, if it doest start call me again, i didnt get many replys,

It seemed like the batteries would go into hibernation over the weekend after doing 3000 odd miles the previous week and needed waking up, of course eventually the batteries would die, but not before the opo got the best out of them,,

So perhaps have your battery checked for a dead cell, gassing ect, ,,,

Hi Lickey, Thanks for that. The battery isn't all that old but I could get it checked easily. One thing that slipped my mind is that a belt under the hood also makes a noise sometimes, especially if cold / washed the car, so perhaps one of the belts needs tightening. After running a bit the belt becomes quieter (its not the air cond belt - if there's a separate belt for that). If it's slipping slightly on startup it might be causing the problem.

As for the bearing, I went to b-quik and they couldn't detect a bearing problem in the front.. As was suggested I may try cockpit/tryeplus and get it looked at again, before shelling out money at the honda dealer:)

[transam]

Culicine, sorry i forgot to add some more info, it was late when i posted and memory was a little hazy, as Warpy correctly said, he didnt understand the starter delay, very unusual,

But this kinda thing used to happen quite often in the big truck industry, i was on 24hr call out for trucks for many years, and i always got calls on monday mornings for non-starters, the starter would just whizz or engage and do nothing, i would tell them leave it for 20 mins, if it doest start call me again, i didnt get many replys,

It seemed like the batteries would go into hibernation over the weekend after doing 3000 odd miles the previous week and needed waking up, of course eventually the batteries would die, but not before the opo got the best out of them,,

So perhaps have your battery checked for a dead cell, gassing ect, ,,,

Hi Lickey, Thanks for that. The battery isn't all that old but I could get it checked easily. One thing that slipped my mind is that a belt under the hood also makes a noise sometimes, especially if cold / washed the car, so perhaps one of the belts needs tightening. After running a bit the belt becomes quieter (its not the air cond belt - if there's a separate belt for that). If it's slipping slightly on startup it might be causing the problem.

As for the bearing, I went to b-quik and they couldn't detect a bearing problem in the front.. As was suggested I may try cockpit/tryeplus and get it looked at again, before shelling out money at the honda dealer:)

When your fan belt slips and makes a noise it is also slipping without making a noise so your alternator will not be doing it's job and charging your battery, especially at night when your lights are on. Get it adjusted, pronto.

[WarpSpeed]

Culicine, sorry i forgot to add some more info, it was late when i posted and memory was a little hazy, as Warpy correctly said, he didnt understand the starter delay, very unusual,

But this kinda thing used to happen quite often in the big truck industry, i was on 24hr call out for trucks for many years, and i always got calls on monday mornings for non-starters, the starter would just whizz or engage and do nothing, i would tell them leave it for 20 mins, if it doest start call me again, i didnt get many replys,

It seemed like the batteries would go into hibernation over the weekend after doing 3000 odd miles the previous week and needed waking up, of course eventually the batteries would die, but not before the opo got the best out of them,,

So perhaps have your battery checked for a dead cell, gassing ect, ,,,

Hi Lickey, Thanks for that. The battery isn't all that old but I could get it checked easily. One thing that slipped my mind is that a belt under the hood also makes a noise sometimes, especially if cold / washed the car, so perhaps one of the belts needs tightening. After running a bit the belt becomes quieter (its not the air cond belt - if there's a separate belt for that). If it's slipping slightly on startup it might be causing the problem.

As for the bearing, I went to b-quik and they couldn't detect a bearing problem in the front.. As was suggested I may try cockpit/tryeplus and get it looked at again, before shelling out money at the honda dealer:)

When your fan belt slips and makes a noise it is also slipping without making a noise so your alternator will not be doing it's job and charging your battery, especially at night when your lights are on. Get it adjusted, pronto.

Yes, if it's adjustable and not a tensioned serpentine belt, in which case you should make sure the tensioner is holding proper tension as well..

[Shot]

Turn up the radio REALLY LOUD. Problem solved

[VocalNeal]

Belts could be glazed? Taxi companies change belts and hoses every year because of high mileage. Don't want to do that? Belt dressing spray

has become popular here in the past little while as a quick fix. Coats the belt in a sticky residue thus improving grip. Older guys will remember using a bar of soap?

As for the starter. The current sent to the solenoid is not strong enough to throw in the gear properly. Solenoid throws in the gear which connects the starter motor which draws all the current which causes the solenoid to retract slightly which causes the starter to stop which releases all the current to energise the solenoid and so on and so on.

Also it could be nothing more than dirty contact inside the starter. Although explaining that to a mechanic may not be easy. They want to simply replace it with a rebuilt one. (IE. one that has been cleaned!)

As the battery is not old it could simply be the corroded connections. Although that does not fully explain the delay working. In the winter in Canada there was a theory about turning on the headlight for a minute to "wake up" the battery. Not necessary here at 30 deg.

[Lickey]

Culicine, asuming its a good quality battery, about 45amph and 350amp cranking power is about right for your Honda, and the charging system proves to be ok, then it could be a sticky starter solenoid, but i doubht it., 18months to 2 years is an "old" battery here..

I would have liked to have seen the garage check the wheel bearings, this is how i check wheel bearings, front wheel drive, jack up wheel, kick the wheel a few times to knock the pads back of the disc, hold wheel top and bottom check for play, but most importantly, turn the wheel with the other hand placed on the stub axle or suspension arm, if the bearing is a problem, you will feel a regular vibration, it does take a lot of experience to diferentiate bearing noise and drive shaft UJs though, Non driven wheels are easier, kick to get the pads back, spin the wheel as hard as poss, listen and feel again for vibes on the nearest fixed part to the wheel center.

Just to save looking for an old thread, and i knw TA reads all the posts here, concerning changing auto trans fluid, without to much bother, drain whats in the box, leave as long as possible, at least 24/48 hours, then drain again, the tourque coverter oil will have run back into the box, agreed, only half, but you will have changed at least 2.3rds of the oil.

Strange how memories come back after all the years,,,,,,,,,,,,,