Chalerm Slams Abhisit Govt For Pardon Plea Delay

[Thai at Heart]

I cannot believe that the system will allow itself to be gerrymandered 100% just for one man. There are some weird and wonderful judgements in Thailand where the punishment doesn't appear to fit the crime, so applying for a pardon when you have nicked 100k baht but been put away for 30 years, is some way to bring some measure of leniency to the system (not an exact quote but I remember reading a couple who had embezzled money from a petrol station getting something akin to this in the last few years).

Off topic, but are you sure you are not thinking of the toll booth embezzlement case?

I remember reading something about credit cards in a petrol station ending up in a crazy number of 1 year sentences to be served consecutively not concurrently.

Here it is,

Couple gets maximum term over cash fraud

BANGKOK: -- The Ratchadapisek Criminal Court yesterday sentenced a couple to 1,562 years in prison for embezzling Bt2.1 million through the use of electronic cash cards issued to Retailink (Thailand) employees to pay for petrol.

Not to say anything, but sometimes the law is an ***. In cash proportion, some ex-PM's should probably be inside for eons.

Edited September 8, 2011 by Thai at Heart

[Thai at Heart]

On the other side right now:

"I believe Pol Lt-Col Thaksin, who graduated from the police academy and finished a Phd in criminology, knows all the procedures," Mr Purachai added.

That's actually pretty funny. Can't have been Purachai who said it.

[Tywais]

Well, was it the party who said it was illegal, or some part of the legal system that said it was illegal?

That one in bold.

Who can submit a petition?

Convicted prisoners

Concerned persons: parents, offsprings and spouse

Diplomatic representatives (only in the case of foreign prisoners)

Department of Corrections

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

I cannot believe that the system will allow itself to be gerrymandered 100% just for one man.

I happened to be reading back the other day about the rubber saplings case, which pretty much arose before I started paying attention to such things...

So I'm reading about the investigation, and the indictments, and the trial and the supposedly airtight case.... and then the Supreme Court verdict finding everyone -- Newin, some ministers, CP and more -- innocent. No lesser charges.... No partial guilty findings.... Absolutely nothing, zero sticks.

I kept looking for some explanation of HOW after all the lead-up, they could simply wash the entire thing away... And the best that I could find was... well, they MEANT to help poor people by doing what they did, so there's nothing illegal about that...

The system here seemingly pretty often is gerrymandered for the benefit of various individuals.... And considering who this particular individual is, I wouldn't consider any possible scheme out of bounds...

[Arkady]

It is a great idea to pardon him. A law should also be enacted stating that anyone who can pay enough people to sign a petition in his favour can be pardoned for any crime without having to serve any time in jail or show any remorse for the crime. Such a law would also be extremely beneficial to Chalerm in the event that any of his sons are again accused of murder or other similar misdemeanours and will ensure that his time can be devoted fully to the well being of the Thai people.

[Thai at Heart]

Well, was it the party who said it was illegal, or some part of the legal system that said it was illegal?

That one in bold.

Who can submit a petition?

Convicted prisoners

Concerned persons: parents, offsprings and spouse

Diplomatic representatives (only in the case of foreign prisoners)

Department of Corrections

But in the quote attached to the question I asked, it was claimed it was the Democrats who claimed it was illegal. Hopefully a very different situation from the corrections department claiming it was illegal.

[whybother]

Meanwhile, Deputy Prime Minister Chalerm Yoobumrung said the petition seeking royal pardon for Thaksin is not the government's urgent policy.

He added since the issue was being examined by the previous administration, the new government has to follow up on it.

Didn't Chalerm "Slam Abhisit" because the petition "had been shelved"?

So it wasn't "being examined by the previous administration" and therefore the new government does not "have to follow up on it".

[Thai at Heart]

I cannot believe that the system will allow itself to be gerrymandered 100% just for one man.

I happened to be reading back the other day about the rubber saplings case, which pretty much arose before I started paying attention to such things...

So I'm reading about the investigation, and the indictments, and the trial and the supposedly airtight case.... and then the Supreme Court verdict finding everyone -- Newin, some ministers, CP and more -- innocent. No lesser charges.... No partial guilty findings.... Absolutely nothing, zero sticks.

I kept looking for some explanation of HOW after all the lead-up, they could simply wash the entire thing away... And the best that I could find was... well, they MEANT to help poor people by doing what they did, so there's nothing illegal about that...

The system here seemingly pretty often is gerrymandered for the benefit of various individuals.... And considering who this particular individual is, I wouldn't consider any possible scheme out of bounds...

I will admit, that I haven't really read that case, other than to know that they got away with it. It wasn't a very clear case anyway, since proving that something doesn't grow because it is low quality is a very difficult thing to prove anyway.

However, messing with the pardons procedure just to suit one man would surely open up a massive can of worms for anyone subsequently applying for a pardon and how they should do it.

[Murgatroyd]

One point occurred to me: Whilst the request for a Pardon applies to the offense that he's already been found guilty of in absentia, surely a further criminal offense was committed when he failed to properly answer his bail... I would have thought that skipping on his bail constitutes a further criminal offense, which seems to have dropped entirely out of sight?

[rixalex]

Has anyone yet applied for a Royal Pardon for the criminal offense of not answering bail? Surely that constitutes an entirely separate offense?

Perhaps the warped thinking of it all is that if he is pardoned for the offence, the business of having skipped bail can just be forgotten about... if you will, as if it never existed.. much like the offence.

At the end of the day, probably not worth examining any of this from a logical legal perspective.

[steffi]

I reckon they should have offered him a deal. If he wants amnesty the bitch does time for tax evasion.

I'm waiting to see what subtle threat comes goes with the petition.

I think the petition must be a formality to get to the next step of amnesty but they have to go thru it first before they can get there.

Has anyone yet applied for a Royal Pardon for the criminal offense of not answering bail? Surely that constitutes an entirely separate offense?

Perhaps the warped thinking of it all is that if he is pardoned for the offence, the business of having skipped bail can just be forgotten about... if you will, as if it never existed.. much like the offence.

At the end of the day, probably not worth examining any of this from a logical legal perspective.

[ableguy]

Grant the pardon, with the stimpulation absolutely no politics for life, if he breaks this royal mandate he will go to jail for life and forfit his fortune to the state. He would last about 2 days before he opened his mouth.

Most would be happy if he just served the two years he owes, oh and then goes to live at the top of mt Everest

[Buchholz]

On the other side right now:

"I believe Pol Lt-Col Thaksin, who graduated from the police academy and finished a Phd in criminology, knows all the procedures," Mr Purachai added.

That's actually pretty funny. Can't have been Purachai who said it.

He can be quite jovial... as long as everyone is done laughing and in bed by 8:30pm.

[Crushdepth]

One point occurred to me: Whilst the request for a Pardon applies to the offense that he's already been found guilty of in absentia, surely a further criminal offense was committed when he failed to properly answer his bail... I would have thought that skipping on his bail constitutes a further criminal offense, which seems to have dropped entirely out of sight?

There are also several other cases pending against Thaksin that are suspended because of his fugitive status. Even if he got a pardon on his current conviction, he's quite likely to get a few more if he comes back and the cases proceed.

But this whole charade has nothing to do with trying to get him a pardon. The real aim is to undermine.

[otherstuff1957]

One point occurred to me: Whilst the request for a Pardon applies to the offense that he's already been found guilty of in absentia, surely a further criminal offense was committed when he failed to properly answer his bail... I would have thought that skipping on his bail constitutes a further criminal offense, which seems to have dropped entirely out of sight?

There are also several other cases pending against Thaksin that are suspended because of his fugitive status. Even if he got a pardon on his current conviction, he's quite likely to get a few more if he comes back and the cases proceed.

But this whole charade has nothing to do with trying to get him a pardon. The real aim is to undermine.

Given their recent actions, I don't think that the courts will hesitate to drop or indefinitely shelf the pending cases, so the only real barrier to Thaksin's triumphant return is his conviction.

If the royal pardon is not forthcoming (probably on the grounds that he is a fugitive and not a prisoner), then there will be some sort of legislative amnesty written in the next couple of months.

I'm still betting on a late November/early December return.

Edited September 8, 2011 by otherstuff1957

[Buchholz]

Chalerm vows to help get Thaksin pardoned

Deputy Prime Minister Chalerm Yoobamrung Thursday vowed to rectify the conviction of former prime minister Thaksin Shinawatra, though he said he was not quite what action he would take.

"This is a big issue and I need time to think things through," he said.

Chalerm explained that Thaksin had not been found guilty of corruption and that the Supreme Court's verdict was about the violation of constitutional edicts.

However, he did not clarify how he deduced that the verdict was related to constitution-related offences when the judicial decision was based on conflict of interest provisions prescribed by the anti-graft law.

-- The Nation 2011-09-08

[ratcatcher]

Chalerm vows to help get Thaksin pardoned

Deputy Prime Minister Chalerm Yoobamrung Thursday vowed to rectify the conviction of former prime minister Thaksin Shinawatra, though he said he was not quite what action he would take.

"This is a big issue and I need time to think things through," he said.

Chalerm explained that Thaksin had not been found guilty of corruption and that the Supreme Court's verdict was about the violation of constitutional edicts.

However, he did not clarify how he deduced that the verdict was related to constitution-related offences when the judicial decision was based on conflict of interest provisions prescribed by the anti-graft law.

-- The Nation 2011-09-08

Since Chalerm believes that Thaksin is not guilty of any crime, perhaps he can apply for a Royal Pardon for Thaksin on the grounds that he has been a massive nuisance while in absentia, causing billions of baht of damage to Thailand's stability with his phone-ins and video links and basically being a complete pain in the arse.

[Card]

The committee has not been set up to find out if a pardon is lawful or justified - it has been set up purely and simply to find a way around the law and to find some suitable PR approach to appease any resistance.

[alanferdi]

Grant the pardon, with the stimpulation absolutely no politics for life, if he breaks this royal mandate he will go to jail for life and forfit his fortune to the state. He would last about 2 days before he opened his mouth.

Absolutely no pardon.

He's looking to have those things "go to jail for life and forfit his fortune to the state" happen to him anyway without having to give away yet another hollow "I promise to quit politics" opportunity to him.

He's made that empty promise 500 times already.

.

I am being convinced now that perhaps Thaksin is slowly bordering Alzheimer since he has forgotten himself what he has done, what he has said and where he stands in regards to the law! It is safe to leave the man alone outside Thailand...to come to terms with his memory!

[rubl]

I reckon they should have offered him a deal. If he wants amnesty the bitch does time for tax evasion.

I'm waiting to see what subtle threat comes goes with the petition.

I think the petition must be a formality to get to the next step of amnesty but they have to go thru it first before they can get there.

Interesting idea, but unfortunately k. Thaksin and k. Potjaman divorced a week before k. Thaksin was sentenced. A deal like you suggest would not make sense, the former lovebirds no longer have a relation. If the separation is really bad, the daughter marrying in December might have to stage two separate parties, one with mama, one with papa

[looping]

Do you know, I wake up every morning wondering what new delights the news clippings section has in store for the day, it never fails to please.

Yes it's fascinating. More farcical than a soap opera, lies that a 5 yr old could see through, policies and promises they admit are ridiculous immediately after the election, denial denial denial,u-turns on a daily basis, a fugitive on the run calling the shots over the phone, a PM with no political experience who refuses to debate and who insists she's not going to be biased on the issue of pardoning her OWN BROTHER, contradictions a plenty and always something to make me think "more Gaul than Asterix!" all before 7am!

'THAKSIN' the movie will be able to boast..."this is based ENTIRELY on real events" ...no embellishment needed!

Just a pity that this isn't fiction and it concerns the lives of millions of people, many of whom actually requested it through their vote.

They'll soon find out if they haven't already realized that in this case ignorance is not and will not be bliss, for all but a few!

Off to bed, I'll be looking at tomorrow's headlines in the same way we feel obliged to stare at a road accident, horrific and yet compelling.

[rubl]

BREAKINGNEWS

Chalerm vows to help get Thaksin pardoned

Published on September 8, 2011

Deputy Prime Minister Chalerm Yoobamrung Thursday vowed to rectify the conviction of former prime minister Thaksin Shinawatra, though he said he was not quite what action he would take.

"This is a big issue and I need time to think things through," he said.

Chalerm explained that Thaksin had not been found guilty of corruption and that the Supreme Court's verdict was about the violation of constitutional edicts.

However, he did not clarify how he deduced that the verdict was related to constitutionrelated offences when the judicial decision was based on conflictofinterest provisions prescribed by the antigraft law.

-- The Nation 2011-09-08

[rubl]

Chalerm vows to help get Thaksin pardoned

Published on September 8, 2011

Still nothing better to do, I guess, even with PM Yingluck out of the country and a Dept. PM maybe slightly more busy?

I'm getting tired looking up again and again all those Pheu Thai quotes on 'it's not about Thaksin', 'amnesty is not a priority', 'give us six months'. Pardon for a unrepentant convict? Poor innocent, almost saintly k. Thaksin?

Edited September 8, 2011 by rubl

[Insight]

... a PM with no political experience who refuses to debate and who insists she's not going to be biased on the issue of pardoning her OWN BROTHER, ....

Quoted for best use of caps ever.

(or today at least)

[Crushdepth]

Chalerm vows to help get Thaksin pardoned

Deputy Prime Minister Chalerm Yoobamrung Thursday vowed to rectify the conviction of former prime minister Thaksin Shinawatra, though he said he was not quite what action he would take.

"This is a big issue and I need time to think things through," he said.

Chalerm explained that Thaksin had not been found guilty of corruption and that the Supreme Court's verdict was about the violation of constitutional edicts.

However, he did not clarify how he deduced that the verdict was related to constitution-related offences when the judicial decision was based on conflict of interest provisions prescribed by the anti-graft law.

-- The Nation 2011-09-08

How can this possibly be reconciled with:

Chalerm dismissed as rumour media reports that the current government planned to discuss whether to seek a royal pardon for Thaksin.

"There is no discussion. This is a rumour. The government has not done anything about this matter," he said.

These guys contradict themselves non-stop.

[Oberkommando]

Only a matter of time. He may not even need the pardon.

[anon467367354]

When can the petition be submitted

For prisoners imposed with sentence other than death, the petition can be submitted at once the case becomes final

For prisoners sentenced to death, the petition must be submitted within 60 days from the date of hearing the judgement.

can someone that is not a prisoner be pardoned? :jap:

[Buchholz]

When can the petition be submitted

For prisoners imposed with sentence other than death, the petition can be submitted at once the case becomes final

For prisoners sentenced to death, the petition must be submitted within 60 days from the date of hearing the judgement.

can someone that is not a prisoner be pardoned? :jap:

Red Shirt Leader out on bail Veera seems to think so, although he won't reveal why.

The petition now is with the Justice Minister. He has appointed a committee to review it. Once that unspecified timeline is done, it will be submitted.

.

[FOODLOVER]

"We have not talked about this and it is not government policy. I am a member of this family, too,"Brilliant! Captain obvious strikes again!

Edited September 9, 2011 by FOODLOVER

[hammered]

When do people think Thaksin will be back?