High-Rise Fires Prompt Concern About Bangkok's Firefighting Capabilities

[noitom]

I don't, we have left Thailand six months ago after four years. My Thai wife loves being away from that attitude. The fact is that 9 out of 10 posts on this site complain and crank about Thais and "their way".The folks who naively ask "why in the world would you live here"? just don't get it.

[noitom]

if you're living here for any length of time and don't understand the way Thais and Thainess works , maybe you should do some investigation - try reading this source http://studyinthailand.org/study_abroad_thailand_university/Thai_society_values.html - The author, who is Thai , put together what is referred to as the 'definitive" work on trying to define Thainess , Thai values, and character. It doesn't matter what country I am from , we are all just Farangs to Thais and all in the same category. So asking about what country I am from has nothing to do with the essence of this observation.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

I presume you're talking about the firetrucks that were the subject of the BKK BMA bidding scandal and allegations...

I've read a lot about the case, but never seen anything about whether the equipment actually arrived and what became of it...

Any sources/articles re the subject you mention above?

No time to go searching. The info is out there.

Last I saw they were sitting under something like guard, in a large parking lot, I think near the docks they were off loaded from the ship, and haven't been moved or even started in years. Just sitting and rusting.

I'd love to see/find a photo of that...

[noitom]

if you're living here for any length of time and don't understand the way Thais and Thainess works , maybe you should do some investigation - try reading this source http://studyinthaila...ety_values.html - The author, who is Thai , put together what is referred to as the 'definitive" work on trying to define Thainess , Thai values, and character. It doesn't matter what country I am from , we are all just Farangs to Thais and all in the same category. So asking about what country I am from has nothing to do with the essence of this observation.

[Tommo]

Of course, all the savvy TVF readers are probably already that aware everybody in Thailand needs to have a good wad of cash in the house (at least Baht 20,000 last I heard) in case of fire or for some reason the water hydrant just won't have any water in it and no fire fighting is going to be able to take place. THAT'S probably why the look of bewilderment when rich54321 started hooking up hoses and started the effort -- "Hey! I hadn't heard from the boss we got the go ahead. Did I miss something??!!"

But perhaps things have changed and my info is out of date.

Who did you hear from? What are you talking about?

"A good wad of cash.." Use it to F.O. because you are talking nonsense,

Basically, you are saying that Thai people won't do anything to help anyone in an emergency unless a reasonably large sum of money is exchanged..... i.e. pay or burn). I think that you may have missed a couple of serious points and will leave it to you to figure them out.

In the meantime. go and coil your own hose

[negreanu]

When you live in Thailand and can get past the illusionary smile thing that seems to captivate occasional tourists you see the real everyday Thai. Totally self absorbed. Ambulance, fire truck, emergency, any kind of normal civil function has nothing to do with me. I am me in my own world and unless you will impact my "face" , I pay you no attention, you are nothing. I drive in front of you as if you don't exist. You are dying, it's not my concern. I will remain in the same lane blocking you, because who you are and what you are doing is an imposition to me. I am Thai, and if you don't understand that then you don't understand me and my "Thainess". Now call ahead and tell them to just wait for your fire truck, because I will not move. You in the ambulance in my rear view mirror, have you got it yet? I don't care if the person you are rushing to get to the hospital dies. They mean nothing to me. I am Thai. It is part of m my Thainess.

There is actually a LOT of truth in that statement and for those long timers in BKK at least will relate to that. It is not Thai bashing and almost on the money. of course the TV members with the thailand is perfect and don't want to believe /admit it will be all over it in minutes but those who can see the big picture,,,,

Edited September 9, 2011 by negreanu

[FOODLOVER]

When you live in Thailand and can get past the illusionary smile thing that seems to captivate occasional tourists you see the real everyday Thai. Totally self absorbed. Ambulance, fire truck, emergency, any kind of normal civil function has nothing to do with me. I am me in my own world and unless you will impact my "face" , I pay you no attention, you are nothing. I drive in front of you as if you don't exist. You are dying, it's not my concern. I will remain in the same lane blocking you, because who you are and what you are doing is an imposition to me. I am Thai, and if you don't understand that then you don't understand me and my "Thainess". Now call ahead and tell them to just wait for your fire truck, because I will not move. You in the ambulance in my rear view mirror, have you got it yet? I don't care if the person you are rushing to get to the hospital dies. They mean nothing to me. I am Thai. It is part of m my Thainess.

If you feel this, then why on earth do you choose to live here?

Might i ask what part of Thailand do you live that people rush out of the way for emergency vehicles?

[bbradsby]

Back on-point:

Everyone has to be vigilant and pro-active in their living and working environs - looking for openings between floors & dwelling units, locked fire exits, fire stair & garbage chute doors that don't close or latch (allowing a fire chimney condition in the exit path or vertical shaft). Lots of this stuff is common sense, so please ensure you've got your exit mapped and planned. And your Plan B.

Even in the West, high rise fires are a challenge, and ladder trucks can only reach up to 75 feet. Importantly, probably all existing high rise residential buildings here are NOT sprinklered, so make sure if you live above about the 10th floor that you have your strategy & risks well figured out;

Think about:

1. extinguishers located at exit from kitchen in a cab, and near the exit to your unit so you can head for safety then choose whether to fight the fire or leave);

2. smoke detectors (sneak a few in at the public corridor outside your unit too),

3. best/clear path to safety mapped out & practiced.

4. As smoke is the real killer in high rise fires, Plan B may be to have masks w/ small Ox tanks for you and yours (kept in bedrooms) to get you from your unit to the refuge area or exit stairwell - IF you've mapped it out as secured with closers and latching doors at every floor - every few months.

Chasing building maintenance & management, HOAs and mobilizing fellow residents may - or may not - be effective. Depends on each individual building. YOu may have to organize farang door & closer repair parties every so often. Not a big deal considering the upside & downside scenarios.

[noitom]

if you're living here for any length of time and don't understand the way Thais and Thainess works , maybe you should do some investigation - try reading this source http://studyinthaila...ety_values.html - The author, who is Thai , put together what is referred to as the 'definitive" work on trying to define Thainess , Thai values, and character. It doesn't matter what country I am from , we are all just Farangs to Thais and all in the same category. So asking about what country I am from has nothing to do with the essence of this observation.

[elgato]

The worst thing is probably that Thai people do not respect and admire firefighters in the way that Westerners do. Instead, they are working class inferiors, servants, in the minds of many people. "Why should I get out of the way for my inferiors?" is part of the mentality.

We are fast approaching the anniversary of 9 / 11 in the States. "First responders" (Firemen) STILL do NOT have health coverage for the diseases they acquired working at ground zero.

Respect? Really??

Apples and oranges Richard. I don't remember any news articles about airplanes crashing in BKK

[TackyToo]

...and the bars/dance clubs still have their exits blocked or locked after the New Year's eve fire of 2008 that killed 61 people and injured over 200. "Talk Talk"- that is all this is, no enforcement of ordances or educating the public in what to do when an ambulance or fire truck needs to get through traffic.

This is the only entrance/exit of an average Thai-Apt house.Aueamornsuk 2, located at 666/6 Sukhumvit 22. Approximately 450 persons are living here.

The entire entrance is covered with wooden panels. The onl ydoor is locked by a card system, I assume it won't work in the case of a shortcut or brownout. For years this area is packed with constructionmaterials, clothes of t-shirt vendors, paint and paint remover containers, gascartridges, furniture, etc. The area is constantly used as a workshop for the buildings maintenance including welding! There is no escape route plan in the entire building and there are no sprinklers on any of the 7 floors!

In case of a fire, this place is nothing but a huge deathtrap! Because the neighbouring buildings are so close, there is only on spot a firetruck could approach the area,- if the car park is empty! In civilized countries the owner would face a prison term for constantlyignoring the danger, even before the body bags are filled!

Edited September 9, 2011 by TackyToo

[thaibeachlovers]

Both those living or working in these buildings, as well as the building managers, have to prioritize their safety and follow the advise given by the Bangkok Metropolitan Administration's firefighting unit.

In other words: Working Together!

Well, that pretty much says it all for this article. Open and shut case!

NEXT!...

Every apartment should have a swimming pool en suite and a water bed as standard.and a firemans pole off every balcony.--remember the Big hotel fire years ago==Jomptien, near all fire door were padlocked, to stop illegal entry. Ha Ha 555555555

Your post may be a satire, but whenever I have lived above ground level, I have always kept a rope long enough to reach ground level available and secured to a strong mounting point. Especially in LOS one needs to take care of one's own safety.

As for Bkk, had the authorities insisted on heli pads on the roof of all buildings over 10 stories, it would at least allow for people trapped ABOVE a burning floor to escape death by helicopter evacuation, assuming they ( Bkk authorities ) could find the money to actually buy the helicopters and maintain them etc, BUT TIT.

[bbradsby]

I believe helicopter evacs atop burning highrises is great in concept. But based on wind direction & smoke & heat drafts rapidly rising, executing this in practice is not anything I'd design an emergency egress strategy around. Neither would i move my family into a building designed around this prospect. For proof, look back to WTC and 9/11, where they tried this and failed due to smoke & heat drafts.

The respected building codes AND agencies now provide for safe highrises. just not in Thailand, or many other developing countries. I try to stay in low rise hotels, or very new high rises. Even then, before i sleep I shut every propped-open fire exit door in my exit path. Seriously. We have to watch out for our own.

[bbradsby]

"...The entire entrance is covered with wooden panels. The onl ydoor is locked by a card system, I assume it won't work in the case of a shortcut or brownout. For years this area is packed with constructionmaterials, clothes of t-shirt vendors, paint and paint remover containers, gascartridges, furniture, etc. The area is constantly used as a workshop for the buildings maintenance including welding! There is no escape route plan in the entire building and there are no sprinklers on any of the 7 floors!"

My personal fave is the LP / CNG / welding gas cylinder supply shop at ground level of an multi-story apartment building.

[Heng]

People sneaking in cooking gas tanks into their condos (where it's against the rules at a lot of complexes) stacks the odds against any firefighting crew no matter how well equipped. With these high rise towers it's x however many hundred of irresponsible people... parents, kids (playing with matches and lighters), working professionals etc. are in the building. It only takes a few unlucky things to happen to kill everyone else in the building above you.

[thaibeachlovers]

"...The entire entrance is covered with wooden panels. The onl ydoor is locked by a card system, I assume it won't work in the case of a shortcut or brownout. For years this area is packed with constructionmaterials, clothes of t-shirt vendors, paint and paint remover containers, gascartridges, furniture, etc. The area is constantly used as a workshop for the buildings maintenance including welding! There is no escape route plan in the entire building and there are no sprinklers on any of the 7 floors!"

My personal fave is the LP / CNG / welding gas cylinder supply shop at ground level of an multi-story apartment building.

Yes, there's one of those on the corner opposite Soi10 Second Rd in Pattaya. I often think as I pass it that it's a wonder that there are so few such calamities in Thailand! Perhaps God looks after the ignorant.

[KKK]

And this is suposed to be NEWS....I've never lived more than 3 stories high in Thailand. Anyone who does is taking a risk fire-wise (or the putting out of fire-wise). Even when last we had a fire down my, all single-storied houses, street the Pattaya fire department took 30 minutes to arrive and didn't have a ladder SHORT enough to be able to enter into the roof space of one house where the rafters had caught alight. They ended up borrowing my 2 meter step ladder. A complete joke....

[KKK]

What we basically have is mass civil disobedience: "Unless you are standing over me with a stick and I think you will whack me good if I don't obey, I will not obey."

very well said.....another way of putting it would be 70 million selfish individuals all grabbing as much as they can from each other with Taksin as their mentor.

Edited September 10, 2011 by KKK

[KKK]

It's not just traffic that makes the response time of emergency services a joke here.

I was playing pool at a bar on the corner of 2nd Rd and Soi 11 in Patts when I heard an accident. A farang on a motorbike had plowed into the back of a Baht bus. The farang was on the street, unconscious and bleeding quite badly. The Baht bus driver fled the scene and all the Thais in the area were more concerned with taking pictures with their phones than calling anyone to help. Luckily a couple of motorbike taxis working across from the bar I was at went to block traffic and called the police and hospital.

It took over 20 minutes for a joke of an ambulance (a pickup truck) to arrive from Pattaya International which is just 8 streets away and almost 10 minutes more for the police to come (their station is even closer than the hospital). This was at 4:00am, no traffic at all. I could have walked to both the police station and hospital and back in 25 minutes.

Just lucky they didn't call Pattaya Memorial. Would have taken 3 hours to show up and they would have stolen the guy's money and kicked him out of the ER because he had no money.

While Bangkok-Pattaya hospital might, and I have no evidence to prove it, arrive quicker they too would have stolen his money and kicked him out of the ER and that I do know about when it happened to a young french lad who I knew. He got back to France and died a few months later from the head injuries that BKK-PTY refused to treat him for. And before anybody says it...yes they would have been paid..he was well insured....he just couldn't tell them so with half his brains on the outside of his skull.

When I had my heart attack 18 months ago...Memorial who came at my phoned request treated me well, got me out of danger and transferred me to Samitivej in Sri Racha who arranged a stent procedure to be done in Chonburi general. All within about 6 hours and not one cent passed hands just the promise I would pay. I did and it cost half of what BKK-PTY would have. If there is any hospital that would mistreat you and suck you dry financially it is Bangkok-Pattaya. Just ask around...

[KKK]

When you live in Thailand and can get past the illusionary smile thing that seems to captivate occasional tourists you see the real everyday Thai. Totally self absorbed. Ambulance, fire truck, emergency, any kind of normal civil function has nothing to do with me. I am me in my own world and unless you will impact my "face" , I pay you no attention, you are nothing. I drive in front of you as if you don't exist. You are dying, it's not my concern. I will remain in the same lane blocking you, because who you are and what you are doing is an imposition to me. I am Thai, and if you don't understand that then you don't understand me and my "Thainess". Now call ahead and tell them to just wait for your fire truck, because I will not move. You in the ambulance in my rear view mirror, have you got it yet? I don't care if the person you are rushing to get to the hospital dies. They mean nothing to me. I am Thai. It is part of m my Thainess.

Great and another one that has seen the selfishness of Thai people. Maybe one day a Thai will be able to explain/defend it all.

[KKK]

if you're living here for any length of time and don't understand the way Thais and Thainess works , maybe you should do some investigation - try reading this source http://studyinthaila...ety_values.html - The author, who is Thai , put together what is referred to as the 'definitive" work on trying to define Thainess , Thai values, and character. It doesn't matter what country I am from , we are all just Farangs to Thais and all in the same category. So asking about what country I am from has nothing to do with the essence of this observation.

I get you noitom even if others don't. Yet I choose to say here. My reasons for doing so are personal and have nothing to do with my understanding of Thainess. One has to way up the pros and cons of everything which is what I did and stayed. Personally I feel those who suggest you leave are looking at Thailand through rose coloured glasses with perhaps a touch of Chang breath.