Warning on new condo

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

Even without the specifics of a particular project or builder, I think the topic is a legitimate and interesting one...

When someone buys "off plan" in Thailand, can you really protect yourself, and if so how, from ending up without either your money or your condo?

In this case, it sounds like the builder is still there and in operation at some level... Meaning the OP at least has a reachable business entity to deal with.

But what happens if you've put your deposit down and, as seems to have happened quite a bit in the resort areas, suddenly the project is abandoned and the developer and its corporate entity are gone...

Edited September 9, 2011 by TallGuyJohninBKK

[elektrified]

My issue is that you are not giving us facts but your filtered opinion of the events...

For instance - In you initial post you say "I place a deposit on 2 condos"... Now you say you have lost the total 3 million?... Which is it? Has there been installments due?... Have you been patiently paying these over the 44 months and all paid up?

And your saying that you got a notice that just said "Contract Canceled" and nothing else?

And then the first place you went to for clarification was some guys on the site schlepping bricks?...

Good grief ...

at the facts of the purchase of 2 condos over the corse of about 44 months. hundreds of E-mails, 1405 photos, and no less than 600 visits to the job site ???

And yes I think I could resale the units quickly for much more than I paid.

600 visits to the job site? I'm sorry that sounds very weird and obsessive. As for reselling the units for "much more than you paid" -- you got greedy in the wrong country. Maybe try that in North America or Europe where you will have a better chance and be safer (but not always). Som nam na.

[naammanow]

I know of only one condo project going up in the Mae Hia area

I live there, so I am sure I know the one you mean, and yes it seems to be taking forever to build.

I'm sure most other TV users who live here will also be able to deduce it, so no need to specically name it.

But unless I missed it "Did you or are you getting your deposit back"? or are they promissing you your money back, you should surely be able to go after them for the interest, if what you were told was true, or maybe its because they just can't sell them and are putting the project in mothballs, lot of condos for sale in town, and this one is quite a way out.

I brought a condo off plan 6 years ago in BK that was never completed, but I put a clause in the contract that if it was not built within 2 years I would get my depoit back plus interest. I got my money back, but via post-dated cheques, others were not so lucky from what I could deduce from Prackard

It's still not finished But that was because of financial problems , not because the company were profiteering as seems to be the case here

Sorry, I live at Mae Hia and have no clue as where it is. Any chance to elaborate?

Hmmm. Also wonder why people prefer to live in a condo at Mae Hia.

[Greenside]

My issue is that you are not giving us facts but your filtered opinion of the events...

For instance - In you initial post you say "I place a deposit on 2 condos"... Now you say you have lost the total 3 million?... Which is it? Has there been installments due?... Have you been patiently paying these over the 44 months and all paid up?

And your saying that you got a notice that just said "Contract Canceled" and nothing else?

And then the first place you went to for clarification was some guys on the site schlepping bricks?...

Good grief ...

at the facts of the purchase of 2 condos over the corse of about 44 months. to the job sitehundreds of E-mails, 1405 photos, and no less than 600 visits ???

And yes I think I could resale the units quickly for much more than I paid.

600 visits to the job site? I'm sorry that sounds very weird and obsessive. As for reselling the units for "much more than you paid" -- you got greedy in the wrong country. Maybe try that in North America or Europe where you will have a better chance and be safer (but not always). Som nam na.

600 visits and 1400 photos does sound a little OTT but I don't think you've got grounds for declaring the OP greedy. In my book, greedy more accurately applies to those enticed to invest in shares with impossibly high returns touted by the Boiler Room boys.

Buying a condo off plan to resell later in the development stage or after is a legitimate way of investing in the property market and carries with it a significant risk usually in the form of the developer failing to complete the project. When he handed over the deposits he had no certainty of what the return might be but presumably hoped it would be worth the time, effort and risk and if what he claims is true about the current values it sounds like he would have done OK. Developers don't usually sell off plan to early investors with any kind of a claim about profits to be made, they simply launch with the offers that they feel will bring in the cash to help minimise their borrowings and get the wheels turning.

Maybe the developer realised they had been too generous in the first place although I'm thinking hundreds of E-mails, 1405 photos, and no less than 600 visits might possibly have driven them to some kind of desperate action in the cause of a few days of peace

[sfokevin]

Quote from OP original post:

"I have waited quietly and patiently for my units though they have been delayed over and over again"

Edited September 9, 2011 by sfokevin

[ShopBoy]

For what reasons they are terminating your contract ?

I purchased each unit at 1.5m Bt. Being the second buyer 44 month ago they are IMO the best units avalable

Rumor has it they think now they can sell them for 3m Bt each

A 1.5m baht unit that can goes for 3m baht now ? I doubt so OP unless the new buyer is a super idiot.

[elektrified]

My issue is that you are not giving us facts but your filtered opinion of the events...

For instance - In you initial post you say "I place a deposit on 2 condos"... Now you say you have lost the total 3 million?... Which is it? Has there been installments due?... Have you been patiently paying these over the 44 months and all paid up?

And your saying that you got a notice that just said "Contract Canceled" and nothing else?

And then the first place you went to for clarification was some guys on the site schlepping bricks?...

Good grief ...

at the facts of the purchase of 2 condos over the corse of about 44 months. to the job sitehundreds of E-mails, 1405 photos, and no less than 600 visits ???

And yes I think I could resale the units quickly for much more than I paid.

600 visits to the job site? I'm sorry that sounds very weird and obsessive. As for reselling the units for "much more than you paid" -- you got greedy in the wrong country. Maybe try that in North America or Europe where you will have a better chance and be safer (but not always). Som nam na.

600 visits and 1400 photos does sound a little OTT but I don't think you've got grounds for declaring the OP greedy. In my book, greedy more accurately applies to those enticed to invest in shares with impossibly high returns touted by the Boiler Room boys.

Buying a condo off plan to resell later in the development stage or after is a legitimate way of investing in the property market and carries with it a significant risk usually in the form of the developer failing to complete the project. When he handed over the deposits he had no certainty of what the return might be but presumably hoped it would be worth the time, effort and risk and if what he claims is true about the current values it sounds like he would have done OK. Developers don't usually sell off plan to early investors with any kind of a claim about profits to be made, they simply launch with the offers that they feel will bring in the cash to help minimise their borrowings and get the wheels turning.

Maybe the developer realised they had been too generous in the first place although I'm thinking hundreds of E-mails, 1405 photos, and no less than 600 visits might possibly have driven them to some kind of desperate action in the cause of a few days of peace

You are right Greenside. I judged him too harshly. And I concur with your assessment of the risk involved. He knew it (or should have).

[funcat]

OP: I think you've done your part.

Probably best to stop this thread completely. The most you're going to get out of keeping this thread going is a counter suit. Let all the nay sayers do what they want, keep quite and get to a lawyer.

Good Luck!

After what I see here,my guess will be quite "same same"...I'm with CMSteve on this one...getting a lawyer is probably the right thing to do,but...how many foreigners have won anything in court here...anybody??

Good Luck?!

[rgs2001uk]

My issue is that you are not giving us facts but your filtered opinion of the events...

For instance - In you initial post you say "I place a deposit on 2 condos"... Now you say you have lost the total 3 million?... Which is it? Has there been installments due?... Have you been patiently paying these over the 44 months and all paid up?

And your saying that you got a notice that just said "Contract Canceled" and nothing else?

And then the first place you went to for clarification was some guys on the site schlepping bricks?...

Good grief ...

at the facts of the purchase of 2 condos over the corse of about 44 months. to the job sitehundreds of E-mails, 1405 photos, and no less than 600 visits ???

And yes I think I could resale the units quickly for much more than I paid.

600 visits to the job site? I'm sorry that sounds very weird and obsessive. As for reselling the units for "much more than you paid" -- you got greedy in the wrong country. Maybe try that in North America or Europe where you will have a better chance and be safer (but not always). Som nam na.

600 visits and 1400 photos does sound a little OTT but I don't think you've got grounds for declaring the OP greedy. In my book, greedy more accurately applies to those enticed to invest in shares with impossibly high returns touted by the Boiler Room boys.

Buying a condo off plan to resell later in the development stage or after is a legitimate way of investing in the property market and carries with it a significant risk usually in the form of the developer failing to complete the project. When he handed over the deposits he had no certainty of what the return might be but presumably hoped it would be worth the time, effort and risk and if what he claims is true about the current values it sounds like he would have done OK. Developers don't usually sell off plan to early investors with any kind of a claim about profits to be made, they simply launch with the offers that they feel will bring in the cash to help minimise their borrowings and get the wheels turning.

Maybe the developer realised they had been too generous in the first place although I'm thinking hundreds of E-mails, 1405 photos, and no less than 600 visits might possibly have driven them to some kind of desperate action in the cause of a few days of peace

You are right Greenside. I judged him too harshly. And I concur with your assessment of the risk involved. He knew it (or should have).

You can dress this up any way you want, the bottom line is the OP was gambling, some may call it investing or speculating, as with all forms of gambling you cant back winners every time.

No more than an occupational hazard in the OPs line of investing, every article of investment I get through the post always carries the waiver, past performance is no indicator of future performance, please bear in mind the value of your investments can rise or fall.

As for paying for something that doesnt exist, I wont even go there.

[Greenside]

You can dress this up any way you want, the bottom line is the OP was gambling, some may call it investing or speculating, as with all forms of gambling you cant back winners every time.

No more than an occupational hazard in the OPs line of investing, every article of investment I get through the post always carries the waiver, past performance is no indicator of future performance, please bear in mind the value of your investments can rise or fall.

As for paying for something that doesnt exist, I wont even go there.

Well yes, but the usual risks you'd factor in are non-completion, unsatisfactory quality or a drop in the market. If the developer was to cancel the deal for reasons not permitted in the original contract (and we don't really know any facts about this) then there's every reason to have some sympathy for the OP.

[lannarebirth]

I know of only one condo project going up in the Mae Hia area

I live there, so I am sure I know the one you mean, and yes it seems to be taking forever to build.

I'm sure most other TV users who live here will also be able to deduce it, so no need to specically name it.

But unless I missed it "Did you or are you getting your deposit back"? or are they promissing you your money back, you should surely be able to go after them for the interest, if what you were told was true, or maybe its because they just can't sell them and are putting the project in mothballs, lot of condos for sale in town, and this one is quite a way out.

I brought a condo off plan 6 years ago in BK that was never completed, but I put a clause in the contract that if it was not built within 2 years I would get my depoit back plus interest. I got my money back, but via post-dated cheques, others were not so lucky from what I could deduce from Prackard

It's still not finished But that was because of financial problems , not because the company were profiteering as seems to be the case here

Sorry, I live at Mae Hia and have no clue as where it is. Any chance to elaborate?

Hmmm. Also wonder why people prefer to live in a condo at Mae Hia.

In Thai fashion, could it be the second octagonal shaped tower of that development that begins with an "S" ?

[ShopBoy]

I know of only one condo project going up in the Mae Hia area

I live there, so I am sure I know the one you mean, and yes it seems to be taking forever to build.

I'm sure most other TV users who live here will also be able to deduce it, so no need to specically name it.

But unless I missed it "Did you or are you getting your deposit back"? or are they promissing you your money back, you should surely be able to go after them for the interest, if what you were told was true, or maybe its because they just can't sell them and are putting the project in mothballs, lot of condos for sale in town, and this one is quite a way out.

I brought a condo off plan 6 years ago in BK that was never completed, but I put a clause in the contract that if it was not built within 2 years I would get my depoit back plus interest. I got my money back, but via post-dated cheques, others were not so lucky from what I could deduce from Prackard

It's still not finished But that was because of financial problems , not because the company were profiteering as seems to be the case here

Sorry, I live at Mae Hia and have no clue as where it is. Any chance to elaborate?

Hmmm. Also wonder why people prefer to live in a condo at Mae Hia.

In Thai fashion, could it be the second octagonal shaped tower of that development that begins with an "S" ?

Right on G.S

[hagler]

And would it make a difference to the responses if the OP had only bought 1 unit for himself to live in?

Of course it would. Penis envy runs rife among the "would be if they could be's" on TV.

Best of luck to you OP. I hope it works out in your favor as you deserve your reward for effort.

[Thailand]

The op's original post simply seems to be a "caveat emptor" take heed if you wish, ignore if you prefer.

But then this is TV.

[letitbe]

Even without the specifics of a particular project or builder, I think the topic is a legitimate and interesting one...

When someone buys "off plan" in Thailand, can you really protect yourself, and if so how, from ending up without either your money or your condo?

In this case, it sounds like the builder is still there and in operation at some level... Meaning the OP at least has a reachable business entity to deal with.

But what happens if you've put your deposit down and, as seems to have happened quite a bit in the resort areas, suddenly the project is abandoned and the developer and its corporate entity are gone...

buying off plan in any country has dangers and here in Thailand is IMO stupid. Yes some propel can make some money if they catch the next forang who does not know what they are doing. I have bought and sold a lot of condos in BKK Hui Hin and long time ago in Chiang Mai. Recently I researched CM again and would challange anyone to find one of newer blocks where price achieved as opposed to price asked is not a lot lower than when they were completed. Most even after a few years have mouldy walls cracked tiling poor pools and thats even with very high maintenance fees. Condos in CM range from total crap at around 8,000 baht sq mt to new swanky (for a while) top end at 70,000 sq mt. The Best value is few blocks which old and used to be very run down but due to a large number of forang new buyers have been greatly upgraded and cost 1/2 price sq mt or less. Also in CM their is a huge bubble growing in new blocks overpriced and with potential huge problems. Those not in city centre will fall in value dramatically as the newness wears off and normal lack of proper maintenance steadily and surely has its mark. Having said that they are quite cheap compared with european prices and if its for ones own personal use ok but dont expect ot make money from them. For rentals older good renovated blcoks offer far better value and returns.

[letitbe]

For what reasons they are terminating your contract ?

I purchased each unit at 1.5m Bt. Being the second buyer 44 month ago they are IMO the best units avalable

Rumor has it they think now they can sell them for 3m Bt each

A 1.5m baht unit that can goes for 3m baht now ? I doubt so OP unless the new buyer is a super idiot.

place is full of people who come straight off plane and pay double going rate. It amazes me how often it happens and ive seen it over last 15+ years. Yes their do seem to be a lot of super idiots who come here. You just need to look at this site to know that. Most are to embarrassed to want it known they totally overpaid.

[Thighlander]

I used a lawyer from ICO Legal Services to buy and sell a house--worked out good for me, as the Dollar plunged, but I was very lucky. I'm getting 18000 THB for a unit I paid 660,000 for in the good ole USA, with rock solid Title. I will use my rent to stay in Thailand. I do like condos, but there's that extra element of suspense, when there is no escrow company like we do here--but some of the attorneys can do you right. I think there are folks still waiting for their deposits back from 1997.

[sfokevin]

I used a lawyer from ICO Legal Services to buy and sell a house--worked out good for me, as the Dollar plunged, but I was very lucky. I'm getting 18000 THB for a unit I paid 660,000 for in the good ole USA, with rock solid Title. I will use my rent to stay in Thailand. I do like condos, but there's that extra element of suspense, when there is no escrow company like we do here--but some of the attorneys can do you right. I think there are folks still waiting for their deposits back from 1997.

"I'm getting 18000 THB for a unit I paid 660,000 for in the good ole USA".... What does this mean?

When you say "rock solid title" for a house do you mean in your name?... If so do elaborate...

[elektrified]

I used a lawyer from ICO Legal Services to buy and sell a house--worked out good for me, as the Dollar plunged, but I was very lucky. I'm getting 18000 THB for a unit I paid 660,000 for in the good ole USA, with rock solid Title. I will use my rent to stay in Thailand. I do like condos, but there's that extra element of suspense, when there is no escrow company like we do here--but some of the attorneys can do you right. I think there are folks still waiting for their deposits back from 1997.

"I'm getting 18000 THB for a unit I paid 660,000 for in the good ole USA".... What does this mean?

When you say "rock solid title" for a house do you mean in your name?... If so do elaborate...

I don't get it either.

[Loaded]

If your deposits are returned, I don't believe the developer has committed a criminal offense. However, you may have a good case under civil law to claim for the loss in 'perceived' value and your costs. From the information you have posted, I think you would win. However,in Thailand a civil case takes around 3 years to be heard. The decision is invariably appealed and this takes a further 3 - 4 years. Then, there is the Supreme court which adds another 4 years. You are probably looking at 10 years of litigation with no guarantee of a favourable result. You are also in a country where nobody cares if you are shot dead. Have a cold beer and write it off to experience.

[ShopBoy]

I used a lawyer from ICO Legal Services to buy and sell a house--worked out good for me, as the Dollar plunged, but I was very lucky. I'm getting 18000 THB for a unit I paid 660,000 for in the good ole USA, with rock solid Title. I will use my rent to stay in Thailand. I do like condos, but there's that extra element of suspense, when there is no escrow company like we do here--but some of the attorneys can do you right. I think there are folks still waiting for their deposits back from 1997.

"I'm getting 18000 THB for a unit I paid 660,000 for in the good ole USA".... What does this mean?

When you say "rock solid title" for a house do you mean in your name?... If so do elaborate...

I don't get it either.

same same..

[mcgriffith]

My 2 favorite replies to this thread, both posted by members with long experience- heed their words:

buying off plan in any country has dangers and here in Thailand is IMO stupid. Yes some propel can make some money if they catch the next forang who does not know what they are doing. I have bought and sold a lot of condos in BKK Hui Hin and long time ago in Chiang Mai. Recently I researched CM again and would challange anyone to find one of newer blocks where price achieved as opposed to price asked is not a lot lower than when they were completed. Most even after a few years have mouldy walls cracked tiling poor pools and thats even with very high maintenance fees. Condos in CM range from total crap at around 8,000 baht sq mt to new swanky (for a while) top end at 70,000 sq mt. The Best value is few blocks which old and used to be very run down but due to a large number of forang new buyers have been greatly upgraded and cost 1/2 price sq mt or less. Also in CM their is a huge bubble growing in new blocks overpriced and with potential huge problems. Those not in city centre will fall in value dramatically as the newness wears off and normal lack of proper maintenance steadily and surely has its mark. Having said that they are quite cheap compared with european prices and if its for ones own personal use ok but dont expect ot make money from them. For rentals older good renovated blcoks offer far better value and returns.

If your deposits are returned, I don't believe the developer has committed a criminal offense. However, you may have a good case under civil law to claim for the loss in 'perceived' value and your costs. From the information you have posted, I think you would win. However,in Thailand a civil case takes around 3 years to be heard. The decision is invariably appealed and this takes a further 3 - 4 years. Then, there is the Supreme court which adds another 4 years. You are probably looking at 10 years of litigation with no guarantee of a favourable result. You are also in a country where nobody cares if you are shot dead. Have a cold beer and write it off to experience.

:jap:

[JeffreyMcCollum]

Update . . .

And today I heard from another future owner who was waiting for his room they are now causing him problems too

The plot gets thicker !!

Soon they may not have any customers left !