E85 In Thailand? What'S The Deal With This Fuel?

[steelepulse]

I was looking at the classified ads above the motoring forum and saw the cefiro for sale with the 2jzgte engine and the ad metioned using e85. I too have this same engine and on some other forums based around this engine, I see many people use e85 when they put their car on the dyno. Is this fuel widely available in Thailand ( I haven't seen any in Phuket) and if so, why aren't more performance cars running this type of fuel seeing as it's cheaper and delivers more power?

[muratremix]

E85 provides more power? I think its the opposite? You won't get many stations selling E85 unfortunately, especially not in Phuket. Number of stations are less than 10 in whole Thailand.

[thaicbr]

some people believe that E85 is a super oxygenated fuel, similar to oxygenated race fuel.

It isn't off course.. all ethanol based fuels are oxygenated but not in the same way as race fuel.

[katabeachbum]

very few cars are E85 compatible, I can only recall three in TH market, Volvo S80 2,5FT, Chev/Daewoo Captiva 2,4 and Mitsu EX 1,8.

It takes more than engine mods, the full fuel system need replacing to survive. 85% ethanol is very aggressive

Most perform less and consume more running E85. In addition it evaporates more rapidly, so fits high milers, but not twice a month fill ups

In Phuket E20/95 and E10/91 have recently been introduced at some pumps, but so far due to logistics not E85 or NGV/CNG

[steelepulse]

Maybe e85 is different here than in the US, but on all performance forums I've seen, engines make considerably more horsepower with e85 than they do with 93 or 91 octane. Quite often even more than 101 octane as there are graph overlays comparing different fuels on the dyno runs.

Seeing as how there's less than 10 stations nationwide that sell this, I'll keep on dreaming.

[katabeachbum]

Maybe e85 is different here than in the US, but on all performance forums I've seen, engines make considerably more horsepower with e85 than they do with 93 or 91 octane. Quite often even more than 101 octane as there are graph overlays comparing different fuels on the dyno runs.

Seeing as how there's less than 10 stations nationwide that sell this, I'll keep on dreaming.

Thai E85 is 95RON. For a NA engine switching from E10 to E20, both 95RON, there is already a measurable loss in performance and increase in consumption.

Volvos 2,5 FT turbo has a slight increase in power running E85, but less than 10% as I recall. As this engine is detuned for TH (due to excicetaxes), I suspect the powerincrease is due to changed ECU settings when detecting E85.

I believe I have seen much more than 10x E85 pumps, but could be wrong. First of all noticed one in Hua Hin 5 km from my home

[steelepulse]

Here's just a quick example of 93 vs e85 with the dyno overlay. There are many more in the below forum that show e85 with a turbo is performs much better than regular gas. That's a heck of a lot more torque given same PSI on the turbo.

http://www.supraforums.com/forum/showthread.php?617957-6265-Quick-Spool-Valve-Cast-Manifold-E85-Stock-Engine-300wtq-2800-RPM

93 octane 486 whp 463 wtq

e85 519 whp 549 wtq

[eTiMaGo]

A lot of race cars use pure ethanol, this is about as close as it gets... Sure, you may not go as far on a volumetric basis, and on a "stock" car the benefits are debatable, but it can provide power than regular fuel just can't match!

[VocalNeal]

In Brazil the land of ethanol a standard flex fuel car will make more power on 100% (actually about 98%) alcohol than it does on petrol ( probably E10).

Downside as you will find with E85. Miles per tank full go down to about 70% that of petrol . From personal experience with a 1000cc VW.

[katabeachbum]

In Brazil the land of ethanol a standard flex fuel car will make more power on 100% (actually about 98%) alcohol than it does on petrol ( probably E10).

Downside as you will find with E85. Miles per tank full go down to about 70% that of petrol . From personal experience with a 1000cc VW.

what is the RON of pure Ethanol?

suspect Th to blend 85% ethanol with 8x RON petrol

and 95RON E20 to be 91RON petrol with Ethanol

just a thought

The thing in Brazil is, they have been doing this gradually since 70s. here its been introduced over night, and japs makers have no experience until Th started ethanol

[VocalNeal]

The thing in Brazil is, they have been doing this gradually since 70s. here its been introduced over night, and japs makers have no experience until Th started ethanol

Amen to that. Out on a limb, but all cars sold in Brazil are flex-fuel. Also not know to me why but they have a small gasoline only tank under the hood. Maybe cold start ?

From the top down VW, Fiat, Ford, Audi, etc. Honda are there but I didn't see many out in the sticks.

I often wondered why the Focus here, for instance, is not flex as the technology exists.

[aussiebebe]

I'd be interested to know where E85 is sold in Thailand. I even downloaded the Thai Oil app for the ipad and that didn't show the locations.

The web is awash with E85 conversion kits from international sellers, my City is E20 - so presumably it's already been modified to cope with ethanol, surely a prime candidate for conversion were E85 readily available.

[steelepulse]

According to the car for sale in the ad that I saw, the seller claimed that e85 is 18 baht/litre. I'd be more than happy to pay that for increased performance while suffering a 30% drop in mileage.

[katabeachbum]

I'd be interested to know where E85 is sold in Thailand. I even downloaded the Thai Oil app for the ipad and that didn't show the locations.

The web is awash with E85 conversion kits from international sellers, my City is E20 - so presumably it's already been modified to cope with ethanol, surely a prime candidate for conversion were E85 readily available.

being E20 compatible does in no way indicate its E85 compatible, or possible to convert to E85 compatible

kits are sold to trick ECU to run E85, not to make fuelsystem cope with E85

just as being E10 compatible in no way makes it E20 compatible

[Tywais]

very few cars are E85 compatible, I can only recall three in TH market, Volvo S80 2,5FT, Chev/Daewoo Captiva 2,4 and Mitsu EX 1,8.

I have a new Civic 2.0 and it is E85 compatible.

[katabeachbum]

very few cars are E85 compatible, I can only recall three in TH market, Volvo S80 2,5FT, Chev/Daewoo Captiva 2,4 and Mitsu EX 1,8.

I have a new Civic 2.0 and it is E85 compatible.

more and more will be in TH, as vehicles already designed (Brazil market) to be E85 compatible, the price to manufactor them E85 compatible is lower than the reduction in excicetax. So win for maker and win for buyer

[Tywais]

very few cars are E85 compatible, I can only recall three in TH market, Volvo S80 2,5FT, Chev/Daewoo Captiva 2,4 and Mitsu EX 1,8.

I have a new Civic 2.0 and it is E85 compatible.

Oops, I messed that one up, got the meaning of the numbers wrong thinking it was 85% benzene. Guess the E should have clued me in, it's actually only E15. The Brazilian version is E25 and possibly flex-fuel.

E85 Vehicles

[muratremix]

E85 will be priced at 22 baht per liter (according to the news at bangkok post) so it is not that cheap when you consider 30% drop in milage.

[katabeachbum]

very few cars are E85 compatible, I can only recall three in TH market, Volvo S80 2,5FT, Chev/Daewoo Captiva 2,4 and Mitsu EX 1,8.

I have a new Civic 2.0 and it is E85 compatible.

Oops, I messed that one up, got the meaning of the numbers wrong thinking it was 85% benzene. Guess the E should have clued me in, it's actually only E15. The Brazilian version is E25 and possibly flex-fuel.

E85 Vehicles

Honda TH claim all their line up is E20, at least to revenue department to reduce excicetax.

[Tywais]

Honda TH claim all their line up is E20, at least to revenue department to reduce excicetax.

You're right. There is a sticker on the bottom of the back window that says E20. Only took me three tries to get it right.

[steelepulse]

E85 will be priced at 22 baht per liter (according to the news at bangkok post) so it is not that cheap when you consider 30% drop in milage.

Compared to the 40.5 baht/litre I'm currently paying for Vpower and with the increase in power and torque , I'll take it! I don't drive that much, but when I do I like good acceleration.

[thaicruze]

why aren't more performance cars running this type of fuel seeing as it's cheaper and delivers more power?

Because the engines aren't E85 compatible.

Edited September 13, 2011 by thaicruze

[thaicruze]

my City is E20 - so presumably it's already been modified to cope with ethanol

Honda City's have been able to do ethanol forever. It's called Gasohol 91 (this is E10). Most cars here can do Gasohol 91, unless you have a high performance vehicle that only takes 95 regular.

If my car was Gasohol 95-E20 compatible, I would save 71 baht when filling up. Not a biggy.

Edited September 13, 2011 by thaicruze

[steelepulse]

why aren't more performance cars running this type of fuel seeing as it's cheaper and delivers more power?

Because the engines aren't E85 compatible.

The engine referred by me earlier in this thread which is a turbo engine certainly accepts it, and from other sites about performance turbos, they do also . Perhaps we're thinking about different performance engines (N/A VS Aspirated). Anyway good luck and enjoy the acceleration!

[katabeachbum]

my City is E20 - so presumably it's already been modified to cope with ethanol

Honda City's have been able to do ethanol forever. It's called Gasohol 91 (this is E10). Most cars here can do Gasohol 91, unless you have a high performance vehicle that only takes 95 regular.

If my car was Gasohol 95-E20 compatible, I would save 71 baht when filling up. Not a biggy.

Not correct

City/jazz 1,5 became E10 compatible in 2005 and E20 compatible in late 2007. Woud not call that forever. VW and Ford in Brazil have been E20 compatible since the early 70s

[MoonRiverOasis]

E85 will be priced at 22 baht per liter (according to the news at bangkok post) so it is not that cheap when you consider 30% drop in milage.

30% is an outside figure that's often bandied about - however, the Thai market Mitsu Lancer EX 1.8L FFV loses ~22% FE on E85, and the 2.4L FFV Captiva loses ~20% FE (both compared to 91 RON benzene).

Either way, for these two vehicles it's a win.

And when gasoline prices raise again in 11 months time, even better for the FFV's.

Edited September 14, 2011 by MoonRiverOasis

[katabeachbum]

E85 will be priced at 22 baht per liter (according to the news at bangkok post) so it is not that cheap when you consider 30% drop in milage.

30% is an outside figure that's often bandied about - however, the Thai market Mitsu Lancer EX 1.8L FFV loses ~22% FE on E85, and the 2.4L FFV Captiva loses ~20% FE (both compared to 91 RON benzene).

Either way, for these two vehicles it's a win.

And when gasoline prices raise again in 11 months time, even better for the FFV's.

Volvos S80 2,5FT auto running E85 returns 7km/liter according to Volvo, while my practical experience with this engine in V70 auto is 9-10km/liter 95 RON petrol, so on paper perhaps 11-12km/l

[Gary A]

It may be just my imagination but my Ford Focus seems to have more power using E20 versus 95 gasohol. What is not my imagination is that the fuel economy is better with 95 gasohol.

[EvilDrSomkid]

According to Bangchack, who sell E85, the octane rating is above 100. I have seen places that offer conversions to handle E85 to say it is RON105.

http://www.bangchak.co.th/en/Service-Station.aspx

You can run more boost and timing with E85. Runs cooler, too.

If you have a performance car with a big turbo, E85 offers more potential.

[stjp8729]

Hi

Just an example, Volvo S80 2.5FT Sport sold in Thailand has 245 Hp with 95 Gasohol, and with E85 it has 258 Hp. The numbers of E85 stations will the about 50 in the end of this year.

Note: The increase in power is for overcharged engines, a N/A has more or less no advantage to run on E85 from a perforamce prespective.

Have a nice day!

Edited September 18, 2011 by stjp8729