Abhisit Slams Thai Govt On Issues About Thaksin

[ianf]

Abhisit positions himself as the (seen) leader of the prevent Thaksin from returning side.

Abhisit's criticism of the transfers wouldnt be as hollow if his government hadnt made many many times more to fill positions with their political mates.

Abhisit's call on the government to state they were not treating Thaksin specially would not ring so hollow if his government hadnt made Thaksin a special case with a foreign minister dedicated to houding the man around the globe while doing utterly nothing to bring home such notables as Kamnan Poh and Vattana who reportedly reside just over the border.

Two sides of the same coin with power reversed but this time by a decisive electoral decision. One would think that Abhisit would be concentrating on a different issue to that which saw his party thumped at the recent election if he were looking to future electoral success. Maybe he isnt looking at that route to power however

In posting the above drivel it shows that you misunderstand Abhisit and the true nature of democracy.

Your comment is worse than drivel. "true nature of democracy". Let me see coalition bought and paid for, on command from the invisible one, done deal in an army camp. Mass murder of its own citizens(which will be proved by that 'name and shame committee') Army chief abusing his power and using popular tv to tell the electorate to vote for good people. Do me a favour - clock off

Wrong. Wrong. Wrong. Wrong. Wrong. A thousand times wrong! How can anyone be so blinkered? I really do not mean to be rude but let me tell you my background. For three years (c 1976) I was a press/publications employee at that major NGO, Amnesty International. I have been involved in Human rights issues from a democratic (non political perspective) all my life. I have delivered humanitarian aid inside Karen Burma. And a lot more besides. In my 63 years on this planet I have spent the vast majority of them fighting injustice, unfairness and lies, damned lies. It is so glaringly obvious to me that what I have posted above is close to the truth that I cannot for the life of me understand how other normal and rational human beings (at least those who do not wear religious or political blinkers) cannot see it. Yes glaringly obvious. Did Abhist order the shooting of so many people? 100% not. Why would he when he showed so much patience with a violent and unruly mob who were armed to the teeth and backed by violent rhetoric from their masters? I could carry on all night about this but the small minority of farangs on this board who persist in not facing the truth only serve to support the forces of evil that are at large in this country and no longer on a short leash. It may take one or two years, perhaps less, perhaps more, but any trace of democracy in this country is being eaten alive by the parasitic family, their exiled leader and the unprincipled power-hungry disciples that have moved from the red stage in BKK to positions of power in Government House. To tell you the truth I don't give a @@@ who rules this nation as long as they do it fairly and openly and above all democratically. Same in the UK. I really can't stand entrenched dogma, be it Labour or Tory (or even Liberal) - I just want to see people goverend properly and able to live safe and decent lives free from suffering, free from being ripped off and with decent welfare systems in place. PTT are not concerned with that and neither is their leader. They are only concerned with Power, control and the enlargement of their own personal fortunes. I didn't see that with the Democratic Party.

[sulasno]

personally as a guest I don't care who's running the country; as long as the Thai people are happy and enjoying a higher quality of life

[rixalex]

personally as a guest I don't care who's running the country; as long as the Thai people are happy and enjoying a higher quality of life

Bit of a contradiction in my opinion. The people who run the country are the people who help determine how happy and how prosperous everyone else is, so it's hard to care about one without caring about the other.

[jayboy]

It is so glaringly obvious to me that what I have posted above is close to the truth that I cannot for the life of me understand how other normal and rational human beings (at least those who do not wear religious or political blinkers) cannot see it. Yes glaringly obvious.

You may not understand why others have quite different opinions but in a sense that is your problem.There are a great many deeply knowledgeable people who care as much about truth and morality but who have a radically different perspective - and if I may say so a rather more sophisticated one - from yourself on Thai politics and society.The purpose of a forum like this is ideally to exchange ideas and views, and avoid being narrowly dogmatic.

[tig28]

They are only concerned with Power, control and the enlargement of their own personal fortunes. I didn't see that with the Democratic Party.

May I dare so bold as to suggest that perhaps you simply weren't looking, Ian?? (none are as blind as ... etc.etc.)

For someone who is a self declared Warrior fighting injustice, unfairness and lies, damned lies -- You do lean a little to the strident!! All this well intentioned fighting for justice certainly has done little to enhance your tolerance for the views of others ---

Ian .... as amazingly incredible as it may seem to you ... others may have a different view to yourself ... and they may not necessarily be wrong. Your simply shouting " Wrong. Wrong. Wrong. Wrong. Wrong. A thousand times wrong!" in your posts does not make it so --- it is simply crass.

jayboy

You may not understand why others have quite different opinions but in a sense that is your problem.There are a great many deeply knowledgeable people who care as much about truth and morality but who have a radically different perspective - and if I may say so a rather more sophisticated one - from yourself on Thai politics and society.The purpose of a forum like this is ideally to exchange ideas and views, and avoid being narrowly dogmatic.

+1

[jayboy]

You may find that 52% was not the true figure and the persistent rumours of vote rigging in Bangkok will not go away. How could a certain, previously most accurate poll for election, get it so wrong in Bangkok and so right in every other part of the country. 7,000,000 extra ballot papers unecessarily printed will fuel this fire. The fact that PT still won has kept this theory very quiet but if there is any truth in the chatter it will be used to put another nail in the coffin of the floundering Dem party. Word in my area is that the rigging was done not to so much gain extra seats but purely to save face by still be able to say " at least the middle classes voted for us".

This rumour is on the back burner but It will not be reported in the popular press, do some research about the inaccuracy of the election exit polls in Bangkok.

I don't buy this.Exit polls are sometimes very wrong even when more sophisticated techniques are applied than is the case in Thailand.International observers saw no irregularities.It may displease many who are politically partisan but the reality is that election polling is generally fair in Thailand.If one dismisses the reactionary dinosaurs who account for Thaksin's popularity by vote buying and "regional mafia bosses", one must also dismiss this kind of report.The PTP actually did rather well in Bangkok in percentage terms but this didn't translate into seats:it happens.

[Ricardo]

Abhisit is nothing more than a sore looser. He needs to be reminded that the people showed he didn't do anything while in office and they disapprove, not by a little, but a landslide. He acts like a child and therefore needs to be treated as such. Just pat him on the head when he speaks and tell him to be a good boy and sit down. He is part of the Bangkok elete born with a silver spoon in his mouth and wants to have a voice. He had a voice and blew it. He needs to go back to England where they put up with a$holes like him and get a real job. Something he has never had.

Your "landslide" was won by the now-withdrawn promise of an immediate universal national minimum wage of 300B/day, and gained 48.4% of the vote, which was enough to win 53% of the seats. And isn't Thaksin similarly part of the Chiang Mai elite ?

why was there no reporting of a lady who told Abhisit not to teach Yingluck on how to run the country; and to explain where did the money go previously budgeted for the floods during his administration

Hey Sul thanks for the laugh ,Of Course public funds were never ever misused or simply just disappeared under Thaksin's administration were they , Why not try Thaksins "soft loan to Burma" for openers :lol:

Indeed, why not let the courts try the case about that loan, if there's nothing for DL to hide ?

[metisdead]

A post has been removed as a poster had deleted quoted post headers as he had reached the maximum number of nested quotes allowed leading to misunderstanding of who posted what. When replying to certain parts of a post, learn how to use the Insert quotation feature.

Removed a post that claimed others were not writing their own scripts. If you have any actual evidence please forward it to support. If it's just a lame debating tactic, further references like that may find you without posting rights.

[sulasno]

personally as a guest I don't care who's running the country; as long as the Thai people are happy and enjoying a higher quality of life

Bit of a contradiction in my opinion. The people who run the country are the people who help determine how happy and how prosperous everyone else is, so it's hard to care about one without caring about the other.

life was much better when Thaksin was in power; some people in business was happy;

on the other hand, some people in business were unhappy

and who's to decide ?

[Thai at Heart]

It is so glaringly obvious to me that what I have posted above is close to the truth that I cannot for the life of me understand how other normal and rational human beings (at least those who do not wear religious or political blinkers) cannot see it. Yes glaringly obvious.

You may not understand why others have quite different opinions but in a sense that is your problem.There are a great many deeply knowledgeable people who care as much about truth and morality but who have a radically different perspective - and if I may say so a rather more sophisticated one - from yourself on Thai politics and society.The purpose of a forum like this is ideally to exchange ideas and views, and avoid being narrowly dogmatic.

The issue is that Thai society has a very very different perspective about what constitutes truth and morality than to most of us on this blog. We can wish, want, desire, feel, demand, ask for Thai society to hold truth and morality in the high esteem that it may be valued elsewhere, but in all reality, it will take a very long time for that to happen. This is Thaksin's essential gripe. How come I am the only guy to be singled out for this treatment?

It doesn't mean that you or any other of us are wrong, it is probably more likely that we are in the wrong place at the wrong time wishing that Thailand would culturally conform to what we understand, in terms of right and wrong. I cannot remember how many times I have caught someone in a the smallest lie to essential fraud, only to be be questioned back "Who told you that?".

I have resigned myself to believing that in Thailand crimes are only committed when people get caught. It is essentially a dog eat dog world here, be it in politics, business or general life, and people get away with what they can. Those that really "can" in Thailand, get away with an awful lot, and never consider the right or wrong of their decision as long as they get ahead.

Edited September 14, 2011 by Thai at Heart

[whybother]

life was much better when Thaksin was in power; some people in business was happy;

on the other hand, some people in business were unhappy

and who's to decide ?

It's amazing the effect that Thaksin had on the world economy. He even made people in the US happy when he was in power, certainly much happier than they are now.

[daninthai]

Abhisit positions himself as the (seen) leader of the prevent Thaksin from returning side.

Abhisit's criticism of the transfers wouldnt be as hollow if his government hadnt made many many times more to fill positions with their political mates.

Abhisit's call on the government to state they were not treating Thaksin specially would not ring so hollow if his government hadnt made Thaksin a special case with a foreign minister dedicated to houding the man around the globe while doing utterly nothing to bring home such notables as Kamnan Poh and Vattana who reportedly reside just over the border.

Two sides of the same coin with power reversed but this time by a decisive electoral decision. One would think that Abhisit would be concentrating on a different issue to that which saw his party thumped at the recent election if he were looking to future electoral success. Maybe he isnt looking at that route to power however

Abhisit is nothing more than a sore looser. He needs to be reminded that the people showed he didn't do anything while in office and they disapprove, not by a little, but a landslide. He acts like a child and therefore needs to be treated as such. Just pat him on the head when he speaks and tell him to be a good boy and sit down. He is part of the Bangkok elete born with a silver spoon in his mouth and wants to have a voice. He had a voice and blew it. He needs to go back to England where they put up with a$$holes like him and get a real job. Something he has never had.

Jealous?

The people did not show he didn't do anything while in office. The people didn't make any decision at all. Individuals voted for the candidate / party they wanted. Their individual decisions were often poorly thought out (vote the same as the boss) and easily bought (oooh 300 Baht a day).

[ozzieman05]

Abhisit positions himself as the (seen) leader of the prevent Thaksin from returning side.

Abhisit's criticism of the transfers wouldnt be as hollow if his government hadnt made many many times more to fill positions with their political mates.

Abhisit's call on the government to state they were not treating Thaksin specially would not ring so hollow if his government hadnt made Thaksin a special case with a foreign minister dedicated to houding the man around the globe while doing utterly nothing to bring home such notables as Kamnan Poh and Vattana who reportedly reside just over the border.

Two sides of the same coin with power reversed but this time by a decisive electoral decision. One would think that Abhisit would be concentrating on a different issue to that which saw his party thumped at the recent election if he were looking to future electoral success. Maybe he isnt looking at that route to power however

Do you really think Abhisit wanted to win the last election... just sit back and watch as this government rips itself apart... I personally know 2 PTP MPs who are shaking their head about their leaders... and what has happened to the 300 bahts per day for the workers who voted them in... Hammered you certainly are...

Thai wife says her parents still go on how great it will be when Thaskin returns

But they can not understand why in the last month since the new government has taken control every thing has gotten dearer and life is now getting harder and harder

Must be the Yellow shirts fault

the new PM still promises they will all be rich in 6 months

[ozzieman05]

Abhisit positions himself as the (seen) leader of the prevent Thaksin from returning side.

Abhisit's criticism of the transfers wouldnt be as hollow if his government hadnt made many many times more to fill positions with their political mates.

Abhisit's call on the government to state they were not treating Thaksin specially would not ring so hollow if his government hadnt made Thaksin a special case with a foreign minister dedicated to houding the man around the globe while doing utterly nothing to bring home such notables as Kamnan Poh and Vattana who reportedly reside just over the border.

Two sides of the same coin with power reversed but this time by a decisive electoral decision. One would think that Abhisit would be concentrating on a different issue to that which saw his party thumped at the recent election if he were looking to future electoral success. Maybe he isnt looking at that route to power however

Double standards at their worst. Poor deluded leader of the opposition is thinking he will get back into power by his normal route. Somebody give him a nudge and let him know coups are out this season and any other season. Judging by his performance and that of his party who never won an election for 20 years I truly believe the Dems are finished without that dirty c word coming to their rescue. 20/20 vision was a little modest from the PT. 20/40 was more realistic.

I don't think Abhisit want to be the head of a government at a time when the world is going into financial ruin

The new government with ministers with no qualifications will destroy what is left of the country, get as much money as they can and disappear

Thais will be on their knees begging for a Govt that know what to do

[ozzieman05]

What many member do not realize is in Issan, children are sent to University now and are getting a better education

But they are not allowed to use it and advise older Thais

Thai young in the 25-35 age bracket honour there parents and do not want to rock the culture they have been brought up in so stay in the back ground

When I ask my Thai wife about politics she makes it clear she has no say in the matter her parents tell her what to do

Talking to her many educated friends I get the same answer over and over

In 5- 10 years these 35 year old girls will be 40 and more in control them selves

and in 10 years parents of younger children going to Uni

Thai land at the moment has a high percentage of uneducated people who will believe any thing they are told

But a new generation of educated children are growing up, and they are watching, seeing what is going on

Time will be coming soon when Red shirts will not have the power they have now, and must prove to educated people

When I first met her she was brain washed in to the Issan culture, how things have changed, and the advice she gives to other young thai girls when they meet nearly knocked me off my feet when I first heard it

Times are a changing

and I am looking forward to a better Thailand in the near future

[JurgenG]

Not at all. Abhisit is acting in the best interests of Thailand and democracy. It is the role of the opposition to oppose where they think they need to intervene and support where that is needed too. This is democracy at work. Fortunately Abhisit is better placed to understand the true nature of democracy that the despots currently in power. That he lost the election has nothing to do with democracy. It has a lot to do with the campaign of villification against Abhisit in a way that would never be accepted in true democracies. This campaign extended to the heartlands of the North East where 'training in democracy' (ie propaganda and indoctrination) were key tools to use on the masses against the Democrats. During the election I drove from Chiang Mai to Chantaburi. On the way I must have passed a thousand or more posters advertising the Democrats - 99% of these were defaced. I also passed the same number of Red posters. Only one was defaced. In true democracies you must let all sides have a voice. The reds, under Thaksin's evil guidance, ensured that Abhisit's democratic voice was taken away. Indeed all the lies and filth spoken against Abhisit (including the carefully manipulated red riots in BKK and the associated deaths) were a successful long term strategy to overturn the Democrats. But was this a democratic campaign? Not at all!

And is Thaksin and his family not part of the elite? Although he comes from a wealthy and privileged background did Thaksin not add to his considerable wealth by stealing from the Thai people? For every 100 baht that he claimed to give to the poor through his various schemes, I think a figure of 94 baht was the sum that ended up in the Shinawatra family coffers.

Those who cannot see the truth here will no doubt be singing from a different song sheet in the next two years. There are many examples of despots grabbing power then emptying the wealth of their country into numbered Swiss accounts. Idi Amin? The Marcos? Gadhaffi? Many many more and Thaksin is of the same breed. He is the worse kind of anti-democrat because he has the gift of twisting events and circumstances, fact and truths to such an extent that he creates his own truth. So forcefully done that the dispossessed, the uneducated and the poor farmers actually believe him.

Abhisit fought his own people because they did not want the corruption to end. There is no evidence of Abhisit being personally corrupt. And if he is the monster that you make him out to be, then why did he not flee the country when the fascists won their manipulated election with the support of 35% of Thai people??

Referring to Abhisit as the back of a person's bottom is ill considered and rude. What qualifies YOU to make such a judgement? Fascism, dictatorship and the like feeds on such ignorance.

Very good post !

I especially like "It is the role of the opposition to oppose where they think they need to intervene and support where that is needed too." Very deep indeed !

Why your post reminds me Abhisit so much ? Oh I remember "good only at using big words ..."

On a more serious note , knowing that Abhisit failed at everything he ever tried, I believe we don't have to worry too much about having the chance to soon welcome Khun T. back home.

[rubl]

On a more serious note , knowing that Abhisit failed at everything he ever tried, I believe we don't have to worry too much about having the chance to soon welcome Khun T. back home.

'failed at everything he tried' sounds like one of those statements like 'everyone knows'. Used when it's 'obvious' and not only doesn't need to be clarified, but most likely cannot be either

Edited September 14, 2011 by rubl

[gemini81]

personally as a guest I don't care who's running the country; as long as the Thai people are happy and enjoying a higher quality of life

Bit of a contradiction in my opinion. The people who run the country are the people who help determine how happy and how prosperous everyone else is, so it's hard to care about one without caring about the other.

life was much better when Thaksin was in power; some people in business was happy;

on the other hand, some people in business were unhappy

and who's to decide ?

Changed your mind 4 times in one post? Wow, that's more amazing than Amazing Thailand.

[sulasno]

personally as a guest I don't care who's running the country; as long as the Thai people are happy and enjoying a higher quality of life

Bit of a contradiction in my opinion. The people who run the country are the people who help determine how happy and how prosperous everyone else is, so it's hard to care about one without caring about the other.

life was much better when Thaksin was in power; some people in business was happy;

on the other hand, some people in business were unhappy

and who's to decide ?

Changed your mind 4 times in one post? Wow, that's more amazing than Amazing Thailand.

huh?

[ianf]

Not at all. Abhisit is acting in the best interests of Thailand and democracy. It is the role of the opposition to oppose where they think they need to intervene and support where that is needed too. This is democracy at work. Fortunately Abhisit is better placed to understand the true nature of democracy that the despots currently in power. That he lost the election has nothing to do with democracy. It has a lot to do with the campaign of villification against Abhisit in a way that would never be accepted in true democracies. This campaign extended to the heartlands of the North East where 'training in democracy' (ie propaganda and indoctrination) were key tools to use on the masses against the Democrats. During the election I drove from Chiang Mai to Chantaburi. On the way I must have passed a thousand or more posters advertising the Democrats - 99% of these were defaced. I also passed the same number of Red posters. Only one was defaced. In true democracies you must let all sides have a voice. The reds, under Thaksin's evil guidance, ensured that Abhisit's democratic voice was taken away. Indeed all the lies and filth spoken against Abhisit (including the carefully manipulated red riots in BKK and the associated deaths) were a successful long term strategy to overturn the Democrats. But was this a democratic campaign? Not at all!

And is Thaksin and his family not part of the elite? Although he comes from a wealthy and privileged background did Thaksin not add to his considerable wealth by stealing from the Thai people? For every 100 baht that he claimed to give to the poor through his various schemes, I think a figure of 94 baht was the sum that ended up in the Shinawatra family coffers.

Those who cannot see the truth here will no doubt be singing from a different song sheet in the next two years. There are many examples of despots grabbing power then emptying the wealth of their country into numbered Swiss accounts. Idi Amin? The Marcos? Gadhaffi? Many many more and Thaksin is of the same breed. He is the worse kind of anti-democrat because he has the gift of twisting events and circumstances, fact and truths to such an extent that he creates his own truth. So forcefully done that the dispossessed, the uneducated and the poor farmers actually believe him.

Abhisit fought his own people because they did not want the corruption to end. There is no evidence of Abhisit being personally corrupt. And if he is the monster that you make him out to be, then why did he not flee the country when the fascists won their manipulated election with the support of 35% of Thai people??

Referring to Abhisit as the back of a person's bottom is ill considered and rude. What qualifies YOU to make such a judgement? Fascism, dictatorship and the like feeds on such ignorance.

Very good post !

I especially like "It is the role of the opposition to oppose where they think they need to intervene and support where that is needed too." Very deep indeed !

Why your post reminds me Abhisit so much ? Oh I remember "good only at using big words ..."

On a more serious note , knowing that Abhisit failed at everything he ever tried, I believe we don't have to worry too much about having the chance to soon welcome Khun T. back home.

Hopefully Jurgen you will consider the content of my post and respond accordingly? Your previous posts, all in support of the demagogue, suggests to me that had you been in Germany during the 30s, the National Socialists would have had a committed member! I jest! I do think there's a lot to be said for carefully considering Thaksin's raison d'etre and the antics he has been up to, including all the duplicity (such as self contradiction) over the past few years. Notwithstanding the 2600+ deaths in the extra judicial killings of so-called drug dealers. I have never understood why the likes of Thaksin, Marcos, Gadhaffi, Idi Amin et al attract supporters. By supporting these tyrants people are effectively responsible for the tortures, the deaths, the theft and so on that many of these people are responsible for. If your aim is to build a better world then support those who share that aim and are able to work towards that goal. The reason I personally detest Thaksin is because he has been shown to be a liar and a thief and is only in this for himself and then in order to contraol and maintain power fools those poor souls who do not have the wit, the education or the resources to see through his scams.

Edited September 14, 2011 by ianf

[LindsayBKK]

Abhisit positions himself as the (seen) leader of the prevent Thaksin from returning side.

Abhisit's criticism of the transfers wouldnt be as hollow if his government hadnt made many many times more to fill positions with their political mates.

Abhisit's call on the government to state they were not treating Thaksin specially would not ring so hollow if his government hadnt made Thaksin a special case with a foreign minister dedicated to houding the man around the globe while doing utterly nothing to bring home such notables as Kamnan Poh and Vattana who reportedly reside just over the border.

Two sides of the same coin with power reversed but this time by a decisive electoral decision. One would think that Abhisit would be concentrating on a different issue to that which saw his party thumped at the recent election if he were looking to future electoral success. Maybe he isnt looking at that route to power however

Abhisit is nothing more than a sore looser. He needs to be reminded that the people showed he didn't do anything while in office and they disapprove, not by a little, but a landslide. He acts like a child and therefore needs to be treated as such. Just pat him on the head when he speaks and tell him to be a good boy and sit down. He is part of the Bangkok elete born with a silver spoon in his mouth and wants to have a voice. He had a voice and blew it. He needs to go back to England where they put up with a$holes like him and get a real job. Something he has never had.

You want to criticize Abhisit Vejjajiva for speaking how it is? Just to remind you...

Mr.T#@*&% is trying to get help from his Sister and friends for a pardon when he hasn't even finished his court appearances,

plus he hasn't even been to jail yet , AND he has strenuously objected to guilt about everything and anything he is/was charged with.

That's why Mr.T#@*&% is unwilling to return to Thailand to prove any form of innocence and for that you criticize Abhisit Vejjajiva,

Any Pardon would not be possible under those circumstances. But they can try.

Some people need to read more before posting.

Abhisit Vejjajiva

Read subject headings:

Energy, Transportation, Economic Recession and Stimulus, Airport Link, High-Speed Train Route, just to name a few.

Edited September 14, 2011 by LindsayBKK

[ThaiOats]

Someone should just go out there with a camcorder and microphone and do interviews in different parts of Thailand. I would if I were in Thailand right now. Ask simple questions like, Do you support PTP or the Democrats and why? Youtube it , millions of hits.

In one scenario, my father and his best friend were watching Thai news last night. My father's best friend would comment on how well the current government is doing and how he wishes all the hard effort continues. I merely asked about the status of ex-NSC Chief Tawil, and all the negative comments started coming out. I picked it up right away and stopped the conversation. My father's best friend left soon after. Asked my father why his friend was upset and he said "because he's from the North and he's pro Red. He and his family received money from Thaksin and would defend him". I further asked "what about our family in Hua Hin? Are they pro-red? ", he replied "No, we hated Thaksin because he got a lot of southerners killed in the drug war among other things like corruption".

So there. A reason to like and a reason to hate.

[hanuman1]

Great post. It never ceases to amaze me how farongs can forget so soon when the facts don't go along with their little dream world. Thaksin is a convicted criminal for what he did. There are other charges awaiting his return. Then there is his bankrolling the red shirts in there illegal armed attack on The nation of Thailand.

How quick they forget.

Thaksin should come home and pay his debt to society for his actions. People should ask them selves if they could have gotten away with what he did.

Then there is his bankrolling the red shirts in there illegal armed attack on The nation of Thailand.

I understand that you have bought in heavily to the anti-Thaksin position, but do you have any evidence of any nature to back this up? I'd like to see it. It would be useful to know about. Any paper trails? Any witnesses?

In the absence of these things, it seems you have decided to create apparent facts out of thin air to reinforce your views.

The response 'You are talking utter <deleted>' may be construed as that of a rabid Thaksin lover, but I'd like to offer an alternative possibility. It could be the response of a (rather uncouth) person who expects a bit more than self-serving fabrication from posters who are trying to convince others of their own narrow perspective.

You are talking utter <deleted>. Be amazed. Be very amazed.

Edited September 14, 2011 by hanuman1

[ThaiOats]

So what was he referring to in this clip? Hopefully you can understand Thai.

And who's paying for all of this?

Edited September 14, 2011 by ThaiOats

[rubl]

Poor, old and lonely k. Thaksin.

From a bit more than two years ago, 2009-07-02:

"That's why he came up with a new gambit: Thaksin in the latest anti-government rally last Saturday got Veera Musigapong, one of his closest allies in the red-shirted movement, to publicly raise the issue of a public petition to seek royal clemency.

"I will get one million signatures to submit the petition," Veera declared in an ostensibly well-orchestrated move - as if to stress that since the ex-premier was lonely, he should get a royal pardon.

Within hours, though, the Democrats hit back with a statement that the petition would be in vain since a royal clemency could be granted only to convicts who are serving their jail terms. Justice Minister Pirapan Salirathavibhaga was quick to point out that he was unaware of any instance of a petition for pardon by people other than convicts and their relatives or those closely connected to them.

Thaksin is determined to be a different kind of a convict. In fact, he has, in all his public statements, refused to be even labelled a convict. He said he had done nothing wrong. He claimed the country's judicial process had been politicised - and that he was a victim of such a flawed system."

http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/ThaiTalk/2009/07/02/entry-1

[longway]

It is so glaringly obvious to me that what I have posted above is close to the truth that I cannot for the life of me understand how other normal and rational human beings (at least those who do not wear religious or political blinkers) cannot see it. Yes glaringly obvious.

You may not understand why others have quite different opinions but in a sense that is your problem.There are a great many deeply knowledgeable people who care as much about truth and morality but who have a radically different perspective - and if I may say so a rather more sophisticated one - from yourself on Thai politics and society.The purpose of a forum like this is ideally to exchange ideas and views, and avoid being narrowly dogmatic.

What you say is fair enough - but tryng to portray supporting Thaksin or PT as a 'sophicticated' stance is ludicrous.

[longway]

Not at all. Abhisit is acting in the best interests of Thailand and democracy. It is the role of the opposition to oppose where they think they need to intervene and support where that is needed too. This is democracy at work. Fortunately Abhisit is better placed to understand the true nature of democracy that the despots currently in power. That he lost the election has nothing to do with democracy. It has a lot to do with the campaign of villification against Abhisit in a way that would never be accepted in true democracies. This campaign extended to the heartlands of the North East where 'training in democracy' (ie propaganda and indoctrination) were key tools to use on the masses against the Democrats. During the election I drove from Chiang Mai to Chantaburi. On the way I must have passed a thousand or more posters advertising the Democrats - 99% of these were defaced. I also passed the same number of Red posters. Only one was defaced. In true democracies you must let all sides have a voice. The reds, under Thaksin's evil guidance, ensured that Abhisit's democratic voice was taken away. Indeed all the lies and filth spoken against Abhisit (including the carefully manipulated red riots in BKK and the associated deaths) were a successful long term strategy to overturn the Democrats. But was this a democratic campaign? Not at all!

And is Thaksin and his family not part of the elite? Although he comes from a wealthy and privileged background did Thaksin not add to his considerable wealth by stealing from the Thai people? For every 100 baht that he claimed to give to the poor through his various schemes, I think a figure of 94 baht was the sum that ended up in the Shinawatra family coffers.

Those who cannot see the truth here will no doubt be singing from a different song sheet in the next two years. There are many examples of despots grabbing power then emptying the wealth of their country into numbered Swiss accounts. Idi Amin? The Marcos? Gadhaffi? Many many more and Thaksin is of the same breed. He is the worse kind of anti-democrat because he has the gift of twisting events and circumstances, fact and truths to such an extent that he creates his own truth. So forcefully done that the dispossessed, the uneducated and the poor farmers actually believe him.

Abhisit fought his own people because they did not want the corruption to end. There is no evidence of Abhisit being personally corrupt. And if he is the monster that you make him out to be, then why did he not flee the country when the fascists won their manipulated election with the support of 35% of Thai people??

Referring to Abhisit as the back of a person's bottom is ill considered and rude. What qualifies YOU to make such a judgement? Fascism, dictatorship and the like feeds on such ignorance.

Very good post !

I especially like "It is the role of the opposition to oppose where they think they need to intervene and support where that is needed too." Very deep indeed !

Why your post reminds me Abhisit so much ? Oh I remember "good only at using big words ..."

On a more serious note , knowing that Abhisit failed at everything he ever tried, I believe we don't have to worry too much about having the chance to soon welcome Khun T. back home.

Which of the 2 opposing views is the more sophisticated?

If ianf did not get quite so carried away it was a fair summary.

The other one is ..well..just is..

Edited September 14, 2011 by longway

[Siam Simon]

It is so glaringly obvious to me that what I have posted above is close to the truth that I cannot for the life of me understand how other normal and rational human beings (at least those who do not wear religious or political blinkers) cannot see it. Yes glaringly obvious.

You may not understand why others have quite different opinions but in a sense that is your problem.There are a great many deeply knowledgeable people who care as much about truth and morality but who have a radically different perspective - and if I may say so a rather more sophisticated one - from yourself on Thai politics and society.The purpose of a forum like this is ideally to exchange ideas and views, and avoid being narrowly dogmatic.

What you say is fair enough - but tryng to portray supporting Thaksin or PT as a 'sophicticated' stance is ludicrous.

Trying to portray supporting any of the current political options as a sophisticated stance is ludicrous. As jayboy stated, we should be bouncing ideas and opinions off each other on here, and learning from each other in the process.

Edited September 14, 2011 by Siam Simon

[longway]

It is so glaringly obvious to me that what I have posted above is close to the truth that I cannot for the life of me understand how other normal and rational human beings (at least those who do not wear religious or political blinkers) cannot see it. Yes glaringly obvious.

You may not understand why others have quite different opinions but in a sense that is your problem.There are a great many deeply knowledgeable people who care as much about truth and morality but who have a radically different perspective - and if I may say so a rather more sophisticated one - from yourself on Thai politics and society.The purpose of a forum like this is ideally to exchange ideas and views, and avoid being narrowly dogmatic.

What you say is fair enough - but tryng to portray supporting Thaksin or PT as a 'sophicticated' stance is ludicrous.

Trying to portray supporting any of the current political options as a sophisticated stance is ludicrous. As jayboy stated, we should be bouncing ideas and opinions off each other on here, and learning from each other in the process.

More about sophistry than sophistication for sure when jayboy patronised the poster called ianf. Jayboy obviously feels he has nothing to learn from ianf and ianf has much to learn from jayboy - 'deeply knowledgable people'.

Edited September 14, 2011 by longway

[FOODLOVER]

Abhisit positions himself as the (seen) leader of the prevent Thaksin from returning side.

Abhisit's criticism of the transfers wouldnt be as hollow if his government hadnt made many many times more to fill positions with their political mates.

Abhisit's call on the government to state they were not treating Thaksin specially would not ring so hollow if his government hadnt made Thaksin a special case with a foreign minister dedicated to houding the man around the globe while doing utterly nothing to bring home such notables as Kamnan Poh and Vattana who reportedly reside just over the border.

Two sides of the same coin with power reversed but this time by a decisive electoral decision. One would think that Abhisit would be concentrating on a different issue to that which saw his party thumped at the recent election if he were looking to future electoral success. Maybe he isnt looking at that route to power however

Abhisit is nothing more than a sore looser. He needs to be reminded that the people showed he didn't do anything while in office and they disapprove, not by a little, but a landslide. He acts like a child and therefore needs to be treated as such. Just pat him on the head when he speaks and tell him to be a good boy and sit down. He is part of the Bangkok elete born with a silver spoon in his mouth and wants to have a voice. He had a voice and blew it. He needs to go back to England where they put up with a$holes like him and get a real job. Something he has never had.

Always love to hear from the University of Kentucky alum! You must have Wild Cat madness!