Thai PM's First Visit Will Mend Ties: Cambodia

[webfact]

Thai PM's first visit will mend ties: Cambodia

PHNOM PENH, September 15, 2011 (AFP) - New Thai Prime Minister Yingluck Shinawatra makes her first official visit to Cambodia on Thursday aimed at shoring up relations between the neighbours after deadly border clashes.

Yingluck will hold talks with her Cambodian counterpart, Hun Sen, expected to herald a return to cordial relations between Bangkok and Phnom Penh, officials said.

The countries have engaged in occasionally bloody clashes over a disputed area near an ancient temple, but tensions have eased since Yingluck's July election win, backed by her brother, ousted ex-leader Thaksin Shinawatra.

"The visit will restore ties and cooperation in all fields between the two countries," Cambodia's foreign ministry spokesman Koy Kuong told AFP, adding that relations were "normalising".

Yingluck’s one-day trip to Phnom Penh precedes a visit on Friday by Thaksin, who remains a controversial but highly influential figure in Thailand. The siblings are not expected to meet.

Hun Sen, who has called Thaksin an "eternal friend", said last month that the "nightmare" of strained ties with Thailand was over and vowed to work with Bangkok to resolve the border row, which centres around a 900-year-old temple.

Under previous Thai premier Abhisit Vejjajiva the spat twice escalated into heavy arms clashes this year, prompting Phnom Penh to take the dispute to the United Nation's highest court.

The Hague-based International Court of Justice in July asked both nations to withdraw military personnel from around the Preah Vihear temple complex. Neither side has pulled out yet, though the border has been calm.

Thailand does not dispute Cambodia's ownership of Preah Vihear, but both sides claim a 4.6-square-kilometre (1.8-square-mile) area of adjacent land.

In February, ten people were killed in fighting at the temple site and fresh clashes broke out further west in April, leaving 18 dead.

-- (c) Copyright AFP 2011-09-15

[hellodolly]

Well one can hope. How ever will Hun Sen stick to his word?

quote

"Hun Sen, who has called Thaksin an "eternal friend", said last month that the "nightmare" of strained ties with Thailand was over and vowed to work with Bangkok to resolve the border row, which centres around a 900-year-old temple."

One could read that he has not been working to resolve the border dispute. All he has been doing is maintaing the situation in it's contentious state of being.

[WeeGB]

So if she's taking her sewing machine, will she need a work permit ??

[rubl]

I haven't watched television, so I might have missed this historical visit of the first female Thai PM to Cambodia. I've only read about the shadow PM coming to Cambodia (Noppadon), maybe going to Cambodia (Chalerm), not important we only want to play football (UDD MPs), 10,000 red-shirts to watch the game (UDD MP Dr. weng).

Anyone with news of this historical visit? Was Ms. Yingluck smiling as ever? Is she so impressed with Cambodian hospitality that she will extend her stay with another day?

Edited September 15, 2011 by rubl

[rubl]

Yingluck’s one-day trip to Phnom Penh precedes a visit on Friday by Thaksin, who remains a controversial but highly influential figure in Thailand. The siblings are not expected to meet.

I'm confused. The PhomPhenPost says:

"Yingluck's agenda set

Thursday, 15 September 2011 15:03 David Boyle

Cambodian Minister of Information Khieu Kanharith said Cambodia had an agenda for talks tomorrow with Yingluck, but he was unable to elaborate on what that agenda was.

Yingluck’s brother Thaksin is scheduled to arrive in Phnom Penh on the following day."

http://www.phnompenhpost.com/index.php/2011091551664/National-news/yinglucks-agenda-set.html

Something lost in translation? We've got our agendas crossed somehow? Hidden agendas ? Both Shinawatras in Cambodia at the same time?

[rubl]

Yingluck’s one-day trip to Phnom Penh precedes a visit on Friday by Thaksin, who remains a controversial but highly influential figure in Thailand. The siblings are not expected to meet.

I'm confused. The PhomPhenPost says:

"Yingluck's agenda set

Thursday, 15 September 2011 15:03 David Boyle

Cambodian Minister of Information Khieu Kanharith said Cambodia had an agenda for talks tomorrow with Yingluck, but he was unable to elaborate on what that agenda was.

Yingluck’s brother Thaksin is scheduled to arrive in Phnom Penh on the following day."

http://www.phnompenhpost.com/index.php/2011091551664/National-news/yinglucks-agenda-set.html

Something lost in translation? We've got our agendas crossed somehow? Hidden agendas ? Both Shinawatras in Cambodia at the same time?

The PhomPhenPost seems on the same journalistic precision level as theNation and the BangkokPost.

PM Yingluck was supposed to be in PhomPhen today for an about seven hour visit:

"Yingluck’s seven-hour visit “will help cool the situation and allow relations to come back to normal,” said Pavin Chachavalpongpun, a visiting research fellow at the Institute of Southeast Asian Studies in Singapore. The trip will help mend ties over the border clashes and lay the groundwork for a deal for oil and gas exploration in disputed waters, he said."

http://www.businessweek.com/news/2011-09-14/thai-premier-yingluck-to-visit-cambodia-in-bid-to-mend-relations.html

"Thai Prime Minister Yingluck Shinawatra will visit Cambodia today in a sign of improving ties after border fighting under her predecessor killed more than 20 people and led the United Nations to intervene."

http://khpost.com/2011/09/15/thailand’s-yingluck-to-visit-cambodia/

Edited September 15, 2011 by rubl

[rubl]

Since I love you all I did some digging and searching. PM Yingluck was in Cambodia on the 15th ! I don't know why it didn't make headlines, I mean it's the first visit of a PM since the border spat. Even this article starts with Cambodian PM Hun Sen rather than Ms. Yingluck. Seems a lot has happened since the Election Campaign and her nomination started about four months ago. At that time every single smile was first page news

NATIONAL

THAI-CAMBODIAN TIES

Hun Sen to seek reduced jail terms for Veera and Ratree

By The Nation, Agencies

Published on September 16, 2011

Cambodian Prime Minister Hun Sen promised visiting Prime Minister Yingluck Shinawatra yesterday that he would seek reduced jail terms for two Thai activists imprisoned for espionage, but insisted a royal pardon could be considered only after they had served two-thirds of their sentences.

During their meeting in Phnom Penh, Yingluck had asked Hun Sen to seek a way to help Veera Somkwamkid and Ratree Pipattanapaiboon, who are serving eight and six years, respectively.

They were arrested in December while inspecting a disputed border area near Sa Kaew's Ban Nongchan village.

The prime ministers also discussed overlapping maritime claims, trade, investment, and a plan to issue third-country tourists with a single visa for the two countries, Cambodian Foreign Minister Hor Namhong said.

The two leaders agreed to comply fully with an International Court of Justice (ICJ) injunction to withdraw troops from a disputed border area adjacent to Preah Vihear Temple and allow Indonesian observers to monitor a cease-fire, he said.

Yingluck and Hun Sen assigned their defence ministers to decide details of the Preah Vihear peacekeeping operation and the withdrawal of troops from the ICJ-determined demilitarised zone.

The ICJ issued provisional measures ordering a troop withdrawal pending an interpretation of its 1962 judgement on the temple as requested by Cambodia. The court ruled in 1962 that the temple is situated in Cambodia, but Thailand argues that its adjacent land belongs to Thailand.

Hun Sen told Yingluck that if the ICJ decides that the disputed 4.6 sq km near Preah Vihear belongs to Thailand, Cambodia will hand it to Thailand unconditionally, Hor Namhong said.

-- The Nation 2011-09-16

[Buchholz]

Disappointed to see Hun Sen didn't greet Yingluck in the same manner as he does Thaksin.

versus

Edited September 16, 2011 by Buchholz

[webfact]

Thailand, Cambodia agree to revive bilateral ties

PHNOM PENH, Sept 16 -- Thailand and Cambodia agreed to revive bilateral relations to benefit the people of both nations after their ties soured due to border conflicts and tensions resulting in many military clashes.

Attempts to revitalise bilateral ties marked yesterday's official visit to Cambodia by Thai Prime Minisiter Yingluck Shinawatra, her first to the Cambodia kingdom since assuming office.

After the official welcoming ceremony at the Office of the Prime Minister of Cambodia, the Peace Palace, Ms Yingluck met for bilateral talks with her Cambodian counterpart Hun Sen.

The visit was considered by the Thai and Cambodian governments as opening a new era of Thai-Cambodia relations to develop closer relations between the people of the two nations.

Both sides agreed that they would not let any problems affect relations and would apply peaceful approaches to resolving problems which may occur in the future.

Existing mechanisms including the Joint Commission for Cooperation (JC), Joint Border Commission (JBC), General Border Committee (GBC) and Regional Border Committee (RBC) would be used to find peaceful solutions.

They will promote communication between their officials at all levels.

Thailand and Cambodia agreed to follow the World Court's order and use the GBC to consider details in implementing the Court's order.

The International Court of Justice (World Court) on July 18 ordered Thailand and Cambodia to withdraw their troops from the newly defined demilitarised zone in a disputed portion of their border around the ancient Preah Vihear temple. The World Court urged both countries to work with the Association of Southeast Asian Nations (ASEAN) to agree to allow the bloc's observers to enter the disputed zone.

The Thai and Cambodia leaders also discussed the maritime seabed claims. Ms Yingluck and Mr Hun Sen agreed to further talks after their being suspended for a long time.

Ms Yingluck had told Mr Hun Sen that according to the Thai Constitution a draft framework must be approved by Parliament before officially beginning talks.

As for economic cooperation, existing mechanisms such as the Joint Commission for Bilateral Cooperation (JC) and the Joint Trade Commission (JTC) would be used to expand trade and investment, particularly along the border for a better quality of life for residents on both sides of the border.

The Thai premier expressed readiness to support the development plan for infrastructure in Cambodia including the communication network. Both leaders agreed to open a new permanent check-point in Aranyaprathet district of Sa Kaeo.

The discussion also touched on regional tourism promotion, technical cooperation and scholarships.

Ms Yingluck also asked about options to help the two Thai activists jailed in a Cambodian prison on espionage charges. In response, Mr Hun Sen pledged to work out commuting the jail terms of the two Thai activists before seeking royal pardon.

A Cambodian court on Feb 1 ruled that Mr Veera Somkwamkid, a key network activist and his secretary Ratree Pipattanapaiboon were guilty of espionage, illegal entry, and trespassing in a military zone. Mr Veera was sentenced to an eight-year jail term and a1.8 million riel (US$450) fine while Ms Ratree was handed down a six-year jail term and a 1.2 million riel ($300) fine.

The Cambodian trip was the premier’s third to an ASEAN country since taking office, to introduce herself to regional leaders. She earlier visited Brunei and Indonesia and was scheduled to visit the Lao on Friday. (MCOT online news)

-- TNA 2011-09-16

[Buchholz]

Ms Yingluck had told Mr Hun Sen that according to the Thai Constitution a draft framework must be approved by Parliament before officially beginning talks.

That's something her brother's lawyer and then Foreign Minister Noppadope didn't bother to follow. He thought the Thaksin, ver. 2.0 government could do anything they dam_n well pleased and to hell with the Thai Constitution.

The Cambodian trip was the premier’s third to an ASEAN country since taking office, to introduce herself to regional leaders. She earlier visited Brunei and Indonesia

The alphabetical order according to her cousin and current Foreign Minister Surapong..... B, I, C

[phiphidon]

Ms Yingluck had told Mr Hun Sen that according to the Thai Constitution a draft framework must be approved by Parliament before officially beginning talks.

That's something her brother's lawyer and then Foreign Minister Noppadope didn't bother to follow. He thought the Thaksin, ver. 2.0 government could do anything they dam_n well pleased and to hell with the Thai Constitution.

The Cambodian trip was the premier's third to an ASEAN country since taking office, to introduce herself to regional leaders. She earlier visited Brunei and Indonesia

The alphabetical order according to her cousin and current Foreign Minister Surapong..... B, I, C

That "alphabet" comment, gets me rolling in the aisles, no matter how many times I read it. What next, a negative reference to Thaksin? Oh, you've already done that.

No reference to the fact that this meeting could lead to a better relationship between the countries, one that does not result in needless deaths for the sake of a few old nationalistic cronies. See http://www.thaivisa....isputed-border/

Oh no, let's pull out the old "alphabet" joke and have an oblique dig at Thaksin instead. In the manner of the overused "slogan" and in honour of what you supposedly seek;

Yay for reasoned debate in this Forum

Edited September 16, 2011 by phiphidon

[Buchholz]

Ms Yingluck had told Mr Hun Sen that according to the Thai Constitution a draft framework must be approved by Parliament before officially beginning talks.

That's something her brother's lawyer and then Foreign Minister Noppadope didn't bother to follow. He thought the Thaksin, ver. 2.0 government could do anything they dam_n well pleased and to hell with the Thai Constitution.

The Cambodian trip was the premier's third to an ASEAN country since taking office, to introduce herself to regional leaders. She earlier visited Brunei and Indonesia

The alphabetical order according to her cousin and current Foreign Minister Surapong..... B, I, C

No reference to the fact that this meeting could lead to a better relationship between the countries, one that does not result in needless deaths for the sake of a few old nationalistic cronies. See http://www.thaivisa....isputed-border/

A better relationship simply because the previous relationship was with a government that wasn't involved in oil and gas rights with Hun Sen.

.

[phiphidon]

A better relationship simply because the previous relationship was with a government that wasn't involved in oil and gas rights with Hun Sen.

.

Well that is something we are still not sure of bearing in mind Suthep was allegedly involved. And to be perfectly honest, Abhisits choice of Foreign Minister, Kasit, didn't exactly set a high standard of Diplomacy with the Cambodian Government, did he?

[Buchholz]

A better relationship simply because the previous relationship was with a government that wasn't involved in oil and gas rights with Hun Sen.

Well that is something we are still not sure of bearing in mind Suthep was allegedly involved. And to be perfectly honest, Abhisits choice of Foreign Minister, Kasit, didn't exactly set a high standard of Diplomacy with the Cambodian Government, did he?

Suthep wasn't angling for a personal profit by bargaining casinos with oil and gas rights.

Surely the nepotistic choice of a cousin with absolutely no prior foreign relations experience whatsoever will lead to not only a

better relationship between the countries

but between Thailand and all countries of the world.

Edited September 16, 2011 by Buchholz

[phiphidon]

A better relationship simply because the previous relationship was with a government that wasn't involved in oil and gas rights with Hun Sen.

Well that is something we are still not sure of bearing in mind Suthep was allegedly involved. And to be perfectly honest, Abhisits choice of Foreign Minister, Kasit, didn't exactly set a high standard of Diplomacy with the Cambodian Government, did he?

Suthep wasn't angling for a personal profit by bargaining casinos with oil and gas rights.

Surely the nepotistic choice of a cousin with absolutely no prior foreign relations experience whatsoever will lead to not only a

better relationship between the countries

but between Thailand and all countries of the world.

Who is angling for a personal profit by bargaining casinos with oil and gas rights? Do you have some links, I'm interested.

As far as the Foreign Minister, I take it he got through the day without calling Hun Sen a gangster, and agreeing talks about removing troops from the disputed areas is a good starter one would have thought, even for a" nepotistic choice of a cousin with absolutely no prior foreign relations experience whatsoever".

Or do you prefer the good old exchange of fire across the borders and throwing the toys out of the pram style of diplomacy favoured by Abhisit?

Edited September 16, 2011 by phiphidon

[Ricardo]

It would appear that either new FM Surapong has managed to 'fix' Thailand's relations with its' neighbour, without even visiting them, or the dispute was artificial and intended just to cause problems for the previous government. Yay for Red Diplomacy !

[Buchholz]

A better relationship simply because the previous relationship was with a government that wasn't involved in oil and gas rights with Hun Sen.

Well that is something we are still not sure of bearing in mind Suthep was allegedly involved. And to be perfectly honest, Abhisits choice of Foreign Minister, Kasit, didn't exactly set a high standard of Diplomacy with the Cambodian Government, did he?

Suthep wasn't angling for a personal profit by bargaining casinos with oil and gas rights.

Surely the nepotistic choice of a cousin with absolutely no prior foreign relations experience whatsoever

Who is angling for a personal profit by bargaining casinos with oil and gas rights? Do you have some links, I'm interested.

The ground floor...

FOREIGN CASINOS: PM acts to stem exodus of New Year gamblers

Prime Minister Thaksin Shinawatra yesterday ordered that video cameras be installed at border crossings with neighbouring countries in an effort to stem the exodus of gamblers during the New Year holiday period.

"Beware! You may lose your money out there, and even if you win and bring back a lot of money, your cash could be seized. The videos will record your movements," Thaksin said.

--The Nation 2003-12-23

Prime Minister Thaksin Shinawatra yesterday threatened to fire any government official who crosses the border to gamble at casinos in Cambodia.

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=4617&view=findpost&p=38186

[ThaiOats]

Have any of you Pro-Thaksinistas ever read up on Cambodia and it's long reigning benevolent PM, Hun Sen?

"You are who you associate with"

Would be a good quote to go by; in this case the Shinawatras and Hunsen go hand in hand. I wouldn't doubt that some words of advice from HunSen to Thaksin would look somewhat like this: "Get power and do WHATEVER it takes to stay in power" and "You..you.. and you only".

So really, could you imagine this Hun Sen all of a sudden being a nice guy or would it be a bit more plausible that there is some sort of agreement with Thaksin?

[Siam Simon]

It would appear that either new FM Surapong has managed to 'fix' Thailand's relations with its' neighbour, without even visiting them, or the dispute was artificial and intended just to cause problems for the previous government. Yay for Red Diplomacy !

Yes, of course. Why didn't we all realise that those border-hugging PAD sh1t stirrers and their dumb-as-dishwater Dem MP friend who created the last set of border skirmishes were in fact employed by Hun Sen on behalf of his best pal Thaksin? How stupid of us all!

[rubl]

It would appear that either new FM Surapong has managed to 'fix' Thailand's relations with its' neighbour, without even visiting them, or the dispute was artificial and intended just to cause problems for the previous government. Yay for Red Diplomacy !

Yes, of course. Why didn't we all realise that those border-hugging PAD sh1t stirrers and their dumb-as-dishwater Dem MP friend who created the last set of border skirmishes were in fact employed by Hun Sen on behalf of his best pal Thaksin? How stupid of us all!

I'm afraid I do not understand the 'yes, of course'. In relation to Thaksin relative and dear friend FM Surapong it doesn't make sense. I thought k. Thaksin caused lots of the tension

"Tension mounts as Thaksin enters Cambodia

Inquirer 2009-11-10: PHNOM PENH Ousted Thai premier Thaksin Shinawatra arrived in Cambodia to start work as a government economic adviser Tuesday, fuelling tensions between the two countries after a series of border clashes. Thailand vowed to seek the extradition of the fugitive billionaire, who was ousted in a bloodless coup in 2006 and is living abroad to avoid corruption charges, but Cambodia said it would refuse any request. The row has plunged relations between the neighboring nations to their lowest for years and threatens to cloud weekend talks between Southeast Asian leaders and US President Barack Obama. Thaksin landed in a..."

http://article.wn.com/view/2009/11/10/Tension_mounts_as_Thaksin_enters_Cambodia/

[phiphidon]

Yes, of course. Why didn't we all realise that those border-hugging PAD sh1t stirrers and their dumb-as-dishwater Dem MP friend who created the last set of border skirmishes were in fact employed by Hun Sen on behalf of his best pal Thaksin? How stupid of us all!

I'm afraid I do not understand the 'yes, of course'. In relation to Thaksin relative and dear friend FM Surapong it doesn't make sense. I thought k. Thaksin caused lots of the tension

"Tension mounts as Thaksin enters Cambodia

Inquirer 2009-11-10: PHNOM PENH Ousted Thai premier Thaksin Shinawatra arrived in Cambodia to start work as a government economic adviser Tuesday, fuelling tensions between the two countries after a series of border clashes. Thailand vowed to seek the extradition of the fugitive billionaire, who was ousted in a bloodless coup in 2006 and is living abroad to avoid corruption charges, but Cambodia said it would refuse any request. The row has plunged relations between the neighboring nations to their lowest for years and threatens to cloud weekend talks between Southeast Asian leaders and US President Barack Obama. Thaksin landed in a..."

http://article.wn.co...nters_Cambodia/

Notice the date, Rubl? 2009. There's been all manner of rumblings of discontent since then. The refusal to go ahead with the MOU on Oil and Gas exploration/exploitation in a fit of pique, the (never proved and strenuously denied) accusation of red shirt "training" camps in Cambodia, the ill advised border "exploration" set up by Abhisit and disastrously carried out by his representative and various PAD hangers on, the cross border shellings using unethical / illegal cluster bomb shells (or whatever the Army is currently calling them), the threatened (but never carried out) walkout on Unesco, the ignoring of the UN ruling by insisting on bilateral talks only, the reluctance to / refusal of, Indonesian observers, the "I'm not going to move my troops until you do first" tantrum, need I go on?

Even by the wildest stretch of imagination, Abhisits handling of relationships with Cambodia have been nothing short of disastrous.

[rubl]

begin removed

...

Even by the wildest stretch of imagination, Abhisits handling of relationships with Cambodia have been nothing short of disastrous.

Disastrous? Lots of imagination there. The MoU was 'inactivated' (but still a valid document) when k. Thaksin was appointed economical advisor to PM Hun Sen around November 2009. With the off/on relation between Thailand and Cambodia that's like a slap in the face with a 'see if I care' attitude on the Cambodian side. Most countries would step down their relation with such an unfriendly neighbour, and not too long ago all-out wars started about even lesser insults.

Even now the Cambodian government spokesman Mr Phay Siphan has said "Thaksin would make two speeches, to the Asean conference and a confidential speech on economy to a government forum." Doesn't that looks like a provocation to you?

Edited September 17, 2011 by rubl

[Ricardo]

It would appear that either new FM Surapong has managed to 'fix' Thailand's relations with its' neighbour, without even visiting them, or the dispute was artificial and intended just to cause problems for the previous government. Yay for Red Diplomacy !

Yes, of course. Why didn't we all realise that those border-hugging PAD sh1t stirrers and their dumb-as-dishwater Dem MP friend who created the last set of border skirmishes were in fact employed by Hun Sen on behalf of his best pal Thaksin? How stupid of us all!

So you think DL's "eternal friend", the despot who runs a neighbouring country where he's always warmly welcomed, is totally incapable of doing something to further his friends' political-interests, and which also gives his own people something to distract them ?

I didn't say the PAD were employed by Hun Sen, nor that they started the skirmish, that's your allegation above. But I would agree that they jumped on the band-wagon thus created, not that they're the moral/political-force they once were, several years ago.

[hellodolly]

It would appear that either new FM Surapong has managed to 'fix' Thailand's relations with its' neighbour, without even visiting them, or the dispute was artificial and intended just to cause problems for the previous government. Yay for Red Diplomacy !

I am with you on that one. Looks mighty strange that Cambodia is willing to work toward healing the differences between the two countries. What a change from his previous stand of no negotiation just Thailand get out. Yingluck may have a more appealing figure than her predecessor but not that good.