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Thai Police Arrest Three Britons For Running Online Sex Show


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Whether these people are in the right or in the wrong, I will say that the reporting and facts behind this case are wildly inaccurate.

1. This was not an internet porn service, it is a British satalite Television show properly licensed by UK government - hence the heavyweight broadcasting equipment.

2. For 16 hours of each day, two Thai lady's would invite British Television viewers to call and chat to them, a 100% non sexual service. Most of this service was encouraging Brits to vacation in Thailand. Yes the performers would try and use this to find sponsors, but any conversation of a sexual nature was strictly prohibited.

3. For 8 hours of the day (21:00 - 05:00 UK Time), the lady's/ladyboys would strip to their underwear, and encourage the more adventurous caller to have conversations of an 'cheeky' nature.

4. The performers were paid between bhat 1000/1500 + bonus for an 8 hour shift, with breaks. They were provided FREE good quality accommodation if they required it.

5. There were also well paid backroom Thai employees for set construction, production, cleaning etc - now also without jobs.

5. Many of the performers are university students, and educated people NOT prostitutes (as reported in some accounts). They had to speak GOOD English, and used the job to improve their conversational English.

6. Nobody made bhat 100,000 per day - this is an invention of the press. In actuality the business was only just profitable, most of the income going on wages and costs of getting the signal back to the UK for broadcasting.

7. Not ONE SINGLE performer was being abused. Indeed it was always considered a win, if a performer could be recruited away from an establishment where abuse and lack of personal safety were an issue - you know the kind of places I mean.

For those of you not acquainted with the UK satalite Television market, there are around 20 stations of this nature, broadcasting from all four corners of the globe.

The press wrote the story based on 'The Bust' and not on the subsequent police investigation, It is unfortunate that two of the performers tested positive for drug use, but it is impossible for any employer to guarantee his staff are drug free. It is also unfortunate for those involved that the 'Thai Police' did not understand what was going on (and why would they unless they had experienced British satalite TV), and left with the only option that it was an internet porn service.

I know for a fact that these guys had done a significant amount of due diligence concerning the legality of this operation, they love Thailand (especially Korat) and its people & culture, and were pleased that they were contributing to Thailand's economy. I know that if they believed they needed any permits, permissions, or licences they would have obtained them.

I wish them the best of luck in finding a resolution, and seeing them back on UK television soon.

TS

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Whether these people are in the right or in the wrong, I will say that the reporting and facts behind this case are wildly inaccurate.

1. This was not an internet porn service, it is a British satalite Television show properly licensed by UK government - hence the heavyweight broadcasting equipment.

2. For 16 hours of each day, two Thai lady's would invite British Television viewers to call and chat to them, a 100% non sexual service. Most of this service was encouraging Brits to vacation in Thailand. Yes the performers would try and use this to find sponsors, but any conversation of a sexual nature was strictly prohibited.

3. For 8 hours of the day (21:00 - 05:00 UK Time), the lady's/ladyboys would strip to their underwear, and encourage the more adventurous caller to have conversations of an 'cheeky' nature.

4. The performers were paid between bhat 1000/1500 + bonus for an 8 hour shift, with breaks. They were provided FREE good quality accommodation if they required it.

5. There were also well paid backroom Thai employees for set construction, production, cleaning etc - now also without jobs.

5. Many of the performers are university students, and educated people NOT prostitutes (as reported in some accounts). They had to speak GOOD English, and used the job to improve their conversational English.

6. Nobody made bhat 100,000 per day - this is an invention of the press. In actuality the business was only just profitable, most of the income going on wages and costs of getting the signal back to the UK for broadcasting.

7. Not ONE SINGLE performer was being abused. Indeed it was always considered a win, if a performer could be recruited away from an establishment where abuse and lack of personal safety were an issue - you know the kind of places I mean.

For those of you not acquainted with the UK satalite Television market, there are around 20 stations of this nature, broadcasting from all four corners of the globe.

The press wrote the story based on 'The Bust' and not on the subsequent police investigation, It is unfortunate that two of the performers tested positive for drug use, but it is impossible for any employer to guarantee his staff are drug free. It is also unfortunate for those involved that the 'Thai Police' did not understand what was going on (and why would they unless they had experienced British satalite TV), and left with the only option that it was an internet porn service.

I know for a fact that these guys had done a significant amount of due diligence concerning the legality of this operation, they love Thailand (especially Korat) and its people & culture, and were pleased that they were contributing to Thailand's economy. I know that if they believed they needed any permits, permissions, or licences they would have obtained them.

I wish them the best of luck in finding a resolution, and seeing them back on UK television soon.

TS

Were the establishments you refer to in #7 bars where women sold sex? And if they recruited prostitutes from bars would they not still be prostitutes? And since there is a lot of drug use in bars would it not be reasonable to test for drug use if you did not want employees who used drugs?

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Were the establishments you refer to in #7 bars where women sold sex? And if they recruited prostitutes from bars would they not still be prostitutes? And since there is a lot of drug use in bars would it not be reasonable to test for drug use if you did not want employees who used drugs?

Both Good Points. I was actually referring the Kyote type bars, where a fair percentage of the girls would rather not be fondled by Thai or Farang punters, but need the money for whatever reason. They are not necessarily hookers. As for the drug testing, I would have to agree with you, and I expect that if this gets resolved that will be one of the first things the guys will implement. I know some of the television channels over here in the UK have random drug testing. I guess in any business you have to trust your staff with a certain amount of personal responsibility. I haven't worked out from the reports what drugs the performers tested positive for - all I can work out is the test went purple?

Edited by thaiphoon
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Both Good Points. I was actually referring the Kyote type bars, where a fair percentage of the girls would rather not be fondled by Thai or Farang punters, but need the money for whatever reason. They are not necessarily hookers. As for the drug testing, I would have to agree with you, and I expect that if this gets resolved that will be one of the first things the guys will implement. I know some of the television channels over here in the UK have random drug testing. I guess in any business you have to trust your staff with a certain amount of personal responsibility. I haven't worked out from the reports what drugs the performers tested positive for - all I can work out is the test went purple?

Thats probably not all that went purple...

As for point # 5, they should sack the set construction crew.

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Were the establishments you refer to in #7 bars where women sold sex? And if they recruited prostitutes from bars would they not still be prostitutes? And since there is a lot of drug use in bars would it not be reasonable to test for drug use if you did not want employees who used drugs?

Both Good Points. I was actually referring the Kyote type bars, where a fair percentage of the girls would rather not be fondled by Thai or Farang punters, but need the money for whatever reason. They are not necessarily hookers. As for the drug testing, I would have to agree with you, and I expect that if this gets resolved that will be one of the first things the guys will implement. I know some of the television channels over here in the UK have random drug testing. I guess in any business you have to trust your staff with a certain amount of personal responsibility. I haven't worked out from the reports what drugs the performers tested positive for - all I can work out is the test went purple?

Thanks thaiphoon, couldent figure out how to re-edit it, after I posted it.

TS

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Actually I think there is a huge difference. The person who has paid for a sexual favour has not profited to the tune of 100,000 baht per day (if you can believe it) while paying the girl 1500 baht. In one case the act is performed in private between consenting adults. In the other, the act is performed in public and the women involved have their image distributed to hundreds if not thousands of people they have never even met. One is not (necessarily) exploitation, the other definitely is.

My reading was they were paid 1,500bht a day +75bht/minute for chat.

One of us has comprehension skills, one of us doesn't.

With all due respect, ludditerman, I think it is you who does not have comprehension skills -

Directly from the original article

He said the Thais, four women and one transvestite - none of them under age - were performing of their own will and were paid Bt1,500 daily, He said he also earned Bt75 per minute of sex chats between the girls and clients, who want to talk apart from watching.

He paid them 1500 baht a day and HE made 75 baht per minute from the sex chats, not them.

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Were the establishments you refer to in #7 bars where women sold sex? And if they recruited prostitutes from bars would they not still be prostitutes? And since there is a lot of drug use in bars would it not be reasonable to test for drug use if you did not want employees who used drugs?

Both Good Points. I was actually referring the Kyote type bars, where a fair percentage of the girls would rather not be fondled by Thai or Farang punters, but need the money for whatever reason. They are not necessarily hookers. As for the drug testing, I would have to agree with you, and I expect that if this gets resolved that will be one of the first things the guys will implement. I know some of the television channels over here in the UK have random drug testing. I guess in any business you have to trust your staff with a certain amount of personal responsibility. I haven't worked out from the reports what drugs the performers tested positive for - all I can work out is the test went purple?

One of the Thai newspapers reported it was Yaba and Ice both Class A drugs here.

I was very pleased to read your post explaining the situation. I am a very good friend of the Korat-based person who was arrested and I am very glad that the true role of this business has been explained.

I am good friends with several of the girls who work there and know that they were all very happy in their work. As things stand they and the backroom workers seem to be the be the biggest losers in this.

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Were the establishments you refer to in #7 bars where women sold sex? And if they recruited prostitutes from bars would they not still be prostitutes? And since there is a lot of drug use in bars would it not be reasonable to test for drug use if you did not want employees who used drugs?

Both Good Points. I was actually referring the Kyote type bars, where a fair percentage of the girls would rather not be fondled by Thai or Farang punters, but need the money for whatever reason. They are not necessarily hookers. As for the drug testing, I would have to agree with you, and I expect that if this gets resolved that will be one of the first things the guys will implement. I know some of the television channels over here in the UK have random drug testing. I guess in any business you have to trust your staff with a certain amount of personal responsibility. I haven't worked out from the reports what drugs the performers tested positive for - all I can work out is the test went purple?

Since you mentioned the kyote word; recently showed a friend around on his vacation. i wasn't really aware that there were K dancers as opposed to go go dancers, but my friend on vacation told me (and I live in Thailand) i became informed that we were in a k club at soi cby rather than just a go go. living here to my eyes the so called K girls look pretty much the same as the non k's. varying degrees of physical looks. low and behold the signs in front of k and non k clubs seeking dancers even have basically the same salary range (thai language) to me it seems the owner/manager came up with the K assignment as a rouse or pretense to make one believe there is something special about their girls.thus extract more cash well, i even had a few k girls sit next to me and low and behold their english vocabulary was quite the same as the ordinary go go's and their thai ability was also the same as most of the non k girls (semi literate) A buddy of mine was very insistent in seeing these places and i was an invited guest / tour guide cause ordinarily i have little interest in paying for drinks to hear more "hello, whut ur name, where u from, where you stay, etc etc, "

On another note, at exhibitions i have seen and chatted with so called k girls. usually quite decent looking and pursuing something in their lives, either a degree, a business, and they are capable of a more normal conversation, albeit in thai. Have also befriended so called "pretty girls" at trade shows and they are leagues above soi cby special K's.

Edited by atyclb
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Coyote dancers are hookers that don't remove their knickers till you get home. They are more expensive and aren't required to take blood tests prior to employment. Check out the nearest 7/11 (to the club) to get phone numbers before or after work as it is less expensive than buying a bottle of whiskey in the club. Coyote dancers not being hookers is just another myth. Boy you guys are gullible.

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I do not understand why governments (Thai and others) recognise that there will alaways be a huge demand for sexual stimulation by people unable to get what they need in real life, providing it does not involve underage and the participans get paid and are not forced into it I really cannot see what is wrong with that. The only sensible way to approach it is to legalise this kind of thing, including prostitution for those who can look for the real experience. This way it can be properly regulated with protectio for the participants, who can also be taxed, as can the business, to provide much needed resources for poorer people in Thailand.

Before anyone jumps on the exploitation of women bandwagon I imagine there would be just as much demand for legal aged male shows as well. Not that I have ever understood how people can claim that it is exploitation only when sex is involved. You all go and buy food in restaurants at high prices where the Thai staff are paid less than this - so isnt that exploitation on a wider scale? If I was a young attractive female, or male, then I would rather spend a bit time showing off my body and even engaging in online sex than work in some crummy kitchen for 14 hours a day for less money!

Why is sex for money such a big deal for people to accept?

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I do not understand why governments (Thai and others) recognise that there will alaways be a huge demand for sexual stimulation by people unable to get what they need in real life, providing it does not involve underage and the participans get paid and are not forced into it I really cannot see what is wrong with that. The only sensible way to approach it is to legalise this kind of thing, including prostitution for those who can look for the real experience. This way it can be properly regulated with protectio for the participants, who can also be taxed, as can the business, to provide much needed resources for poorer people in Thailand.

Before anyone jumps on the exploitation of women bandwagon I imagine there would be just as much demand for legal aged male shows as well. Not that I have ever understood how people can claim that it is exploitation only when sex is involved. You all go and buy food in restaurants at high prices where the Thai staff are paid less than this - so isnt that exploitation on a wider scale? If I was a young attractive female, or male, then I would rather spend a bit time showing off my body and even engaging in online sex than work in some crummy kitchen for 14 hours a day for less money!

Why is sex for money such a big deal for people to accept?

The religious police have told us so since the early days....

I agree totally with your post...good job.

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Just curious but how do you know which ones are honest and which ones are corrupt? You know there is an old saying, "if there's smoke there is probably a fire somewhere."

Oh sh-- the massage parlor I am in now is on fire. LOL

PS: It ain't slander if it is true.

But you know instead of slandering poor Thailand (where oh where does it get such a bad rep????? I think everyone should think of a funny story to tell and start a topic. I'll even start the first one. Now we all know policemen don't take bribes here because that would be illegal right. So the other day I got caught with no helmut and would you believe it the cop refused to take my request to handle it so I had to go to the police station. The fine is now 400 baht but I told the cop at the desk I was on my way to the dentist as I had just broken my tooth which was true. So the cop says to me, "ok I give you a discount how about 200 baht?" I said to him how about 100 baht and he said ok. So all you guys slandering the poor Thai police I say leave them alone.

If you work it right instead of bribing them just play let's make a deal. LOL

I am not defending the pocile but I have to say that the usual bla bla bla police didn't get their cut is so blazay. Would it be a surprise to you that not all police in Thailand are corrupt? That some if not most have integrity and honor their jobs and their responsibilities. These guys got caught because 1. They are idiots and second the police were tipped off. I know there are many corrupt cops in Thailand but not all. Show some respect eh?

You all should be careful slandering the police force in this country, Generalizations could be seen as Slanderclosedeyes.gif

Sorry yes I know its off topic=but we got a parking fine for 400 baht a while ago and went and paid the next day and the cops said 200 baht will do

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Once again police investigation time gets wasted on non-violent crime,

instead of focusing on all the violent crimes that are killing people ,

all over Thailand!

But those headlines are only exploited by the press & police,

when they get lucky and the criminals make big mistakes , un-educated types & get caught !

I wonder , is it corruption ? when everyone seems to be doing it ! or the norm?B)

post-35854-0-38888600-1316441810_thumb.p

Edited by Tywais
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I noticed they started blocking these type of web cam sites a while ago and heavily censor others such as camfrog, not a surprise they arrested people for it or that foreigners were involved. They were probably the ones typing the English chat while the dudes back home were jacking off

These kind of sites are pretty lucrative, guys back home pay several dollars per minute to just chat with a naked a chick. They also will give their favorite chicks gifts, it's crazy that these dudes give thousands of dollars to a chick they never even met.

sounds like your one of those guys. Whats your fav sites then mate?

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Good riddance to these white garbage. What the bloody Thai Immigration and Police needs to do is to be more restrictive in the visas and more intense screening esp to people from Britain, America and Australia and also other European Countries as Thailand and also other parts of Asia are attracting the garbage from these countries.

Sarcasim only works if it is worded right .If this is not your intent Do not not post on this site Everyone here is an expert!

Reworded; Thailand is an equal opportunity democratic shit magnet.

A new one for the Hubb list.

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I agree Baht 1500 is a bloody good living for these girls and I feel sorry for them as their living has been snatched from them. Far better that they put up with the suggestive, rude and downright filthy remarks of callers than working the bars.(are there any in Korat) Shame that the Welsh/English bosses were so greedy. If they had paid their taxes and any other necessary costs nothing would have been said. As for acting on a tip-off, come on how long has this been known about?

Seeing that it is in Isan, I would guess it was known for about 2 day's before they started. The cops had to wait and see if it works or not and only then can they apply for some tea money. After that, it up to the bussiness owners.

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Once again police investigation time gets wasted on non-violent crime,

instead of focusing on all the violent crimes that are killing people ,

all over Thailand!

But those headlines are only exploited by the press & police,

when they get lucky and the criminals make big mistakes , un-educated types & get caught !

I wonder , is it corruption ? when everyone seems to be doing it ! or the norm?B)

Nominee for dumb post of the day. Police should only follow up on violent crimes and ignore things like drug smuggling, burglary, fraud, gun-running, embezzlement, vandalism, arson, forest encroachment, contamination of the environment, pick-pocketing, etc. etc.

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They did their dye diligence to stay legal? So they had a corporate entity reporting income and paying tax on it? Work permits for the farangs? Provident fund and social security for the employees? Do I have that right?

They operate a UK company, and pay both VAT and Corporation Tax. There were no Farangs employed at the Thailand end of the operation, I don't know about provident fund and social security. What I do know is that it was contributing several million to the Thai staff and Thai service providers (electricity, telecommunications etc) annually, and thus contributing to the net income of the country.

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Everyone knows Welsh sheep are still radioactive 555555

In view of the fact that the main suspect in this case is Welsh, I am concerned no sheep were harmed in the making of his movies.

Are you the only person on this forum that has a sense of humour? Not from the "UK" but Well said

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Whether these people are in the right or in the wrong, I will say that the reporting and facts behind this case are wildly inaccurate.

1. This was not an internet porn service, it is a British satalite Television show properly licensed by UK government - hence the heavyweight broadcasting equipment.

2. For 16 hours of each day, two Thai lady's would invite British Television viewers to call and chat to them, a 100% non sexual service. Most of this service was encouraging Brits to vacation in Thailand. Yes the performers would try and use this to find sponsors, but any conversation of a sexual nature was strictly prohibited.

3. For 8 hours of the day (21:00 - 05:00 UK Time), the lady's/ladyboys would strip to their underwear, and encourage the more adventurous caller to have conversations of an 'cheeky' nature.

4. The performers were paid between bhat 1000/1500 + bonus for an 8 hour shift, with breaks. They were provided FREE good quality accommodation if they required it.

5. There were also well paid backroom Thai employees for set construction, production, cleaning etc - now also without jobs.

5. Many of the performers are university students, and educated people NOT prostitutes (as reported in some accounts). They had to speak GOOD English, and used the job to improve their conversational English.

6. Nobody made bhat 100,000 per day - this is an invention of the press. In actuality the business was only just profitable, most of the income going on wages and costs of getting the signal back to the UK for broadcasting.

7. Not ONE SINGLE performer was being abused. Indeed it was always considered a win, if a performer could be recruited away from an establishment where abuse and lack of personal safety were an issue - you know the kind of places I mean.

For those of you not acquainted with the UK satalite Television market, there are around 20 stations of this nature, broadcasting from all four corners of the globe.

The press wrote the story based on 'The Bust' and not on the subsequent police investigation, It is unfortunate that two of the performers tested positive for drug use, but it is impossible for any employer to guarantee his staff are drug free. It is also unfortunate for those involved that the 'Thai Police' did not understand what was going on (and why would they unless they had experienced British satalite TV), and left with the only option that it was an internet porn service.

I know for a fact that these guys had done a significant amount of due diligence concerning the legality of this operation, they love Thailand (especially Korat) and its people & culture, and were pleased that they were contributing to Thailand's economy. I know that if they believed they needed any permits, permissions, or licences they would have obtained them.

I wish them the best of luck in finding a resolution, and seeing them back on UK television soon.

TS

So, this was a travel agency employing university students who had been rescued from abusive employers. Jeez, the cops got it completely wrong!

Let's get some balance here. That post quoted above, despite the nonsense, is no worse than some of the uninformed stuff on this thread. I guess that's it's tempting to speculate and and form opinions when there's a shortage of reliable information but it doesn't help. Forget the moral issues because that's subjective. Forget the possibility of altruistic intentions because they have nothing to do with the real issues. The only issues that matter to the people involved are legal ones:

1. Work permits for any foreigners.

2. Visa terms for any foreigners.

3. Computer crime laws.

4. Laws related to paid-for sexual acts.

5. Business and tax laws.

6. Whether there is any way that the defendant can avoid imprisonment, fines and deportation by favour of the authorities.

Moral issues are unlikely to affect the outcome one way or the other.

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They did their dye diligence to stay legal? So they had a corporate entity reporting income and paying tax on it? Work permits for the farangs? Provident fund and social security for the employees? Do I have that right?

They operate a UK company, and pay both VAT and Corporation Tax. There were no Farangs employed at the Thailand end of the operation, I don't know about provident fund and social security. What I do know is that it was contributing several million to the Thai staff and Thai service providers (electricity, telecommunications etc) annually, and thus contributing to the net income of the country.

I think this tells us all we need to know about the great lengths your buddies went to to set up a legal business in Thailand.

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Could I lend my support to this balanced response as it is the first level headed and sensible input I have seen regarding this incident. It would also appear from the detail provided that the correspondent is not only well informed but on good terms with the UK nationals involved. I cannot, however, comment on the standing of the Mr Davies and his associates and as to whether they did indeed undertake due d iligence prior to setting up this operation. If they did it would appear they were badly misinformed and lets face it guys not paying your taxes is a far bigger crime and you should pay (no pun intended) for this.

May I also take this opportunity to ask everyone reading this to spare a thought for the true victims, i.e. the performers (not just those unfortunate to be on duty at the time of the raid) and their families who are the ones who will suffer the most. Indeed I would say the girls should be congratulated for making the decision to remain in Korat, continue their studies, support their families and resist the temptation to follow many of their generation to the supposedly easier money to be made in the riskier and dubious occupations to be found in the entertainment districts further south.

An added advantage to their being employed by Mr Davies and his associates was that they were, in particular on the day-time chat show and when not figh ting boredom, provided with golden opportunities to improve their English which, to the best of my knowledge, was an important part of their studies.

Yes, I was, as a lover of Thailand, a caller (to the day shows I hasten to add) and enjoyed the non-suggestive chats and laughs I had with the girls.

So to conclude may I appeal through this forum (or if anyone knows to whom I can make a direct appeal please post it here) to those in authority to show leniency towards those unfortunate performers to be caught in the raid. They, and their families, have suffered enough.

Finally, to all the girls and shemales on Asian Connections/Babes best wishes for the future. I hope that everything works out for you and thanks to ThaiVisa Forum for providing me with this opportunity to make publ ic my support for the performers involved and my feelings on this unfortun ate incident."

Whether these people are in the right or in the wrong, I will say that the reporting and facts behind this case are wildly inaccurate.

1. This was not an internet porn service, it is a British satalite Television show properly licensed by UK government - hence the heavyweight broadcasting equipment.

2. For 16 hours of each day, two Thai lady's would invite British Television viewers to call and chat to them, a 100% non sexual service. Most of this service was encouraging Brits to vacation in Thailand. Yes the performers would try and use this to find sponsors, but any conversation of a sexual nature was strictly prohibited.

3. For 8 hours of the day (21:00 - 05:00 UK Time), the lady's/ladyboys would strip to their underwear, and encourage the more adventurous caller to have conversations of an 'cheeky' nature.

4. The performers were paid between bhat 1000/1500 + bonus for an 8 hour shift, with breaks. They were provided FREE good quality accommodation if they required it.

5. There were also well paid backroom Thai employees for set construction, production, cleaning etc - now also without jobs.

5. Many of the performers are university students, and educated people NOT prostitutes (as reported in some accounts). They had to speak GOOD English, and used the job to improve their conversational English.

6. Nobody made bhat 100,000 per day - this is an invention of the press. In actuality the business was only just profitable, most of the income going on wages and costs of getting the signal back to the UK for broadcasting.

7. Not ONE SINGLE performer was being abused. Indeed it was always considered a win, if a performer could be recruited away from an establishment where abuse and lack of personal safety were an issue - you know the kind of places I mean.

For those of you not acquainted with the UK satalite Television market, there are around 20 stations of this nature, broadcasting from all four corners of the globe.

The press wrote the story based on 'The Bust' and not on the subsequent police investigation, It is unfortunate that two of the performers tested positive for drug use, but it is impossible for any employer to guarantee his staff are drug free. It is also unfortunate for those involved that the 'Thai Police' did not understand what was going on (and why would they unless they had experienced British satalite TV), and left with the only option that it was an internet porn service.

I know for a fact that these guys had done a significant amount of due diligence concerning the legality of this operation, they love Thailand (especially Korat) and its people & culture, and were pleased that they were contributing to Thailand's economy. I know that if they believed they needed any permits, permissions, or licences they would have obtained them.

I wish them the best of luck in finding a resolution, and seeing them back on UK television soon.

TS

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Only neophytes pay for porn! :lol:

Question <deleted> is a neophyte and assuming that your a male, you have never ever paid for sex? If you are a female you have never been out on a awesome date/with breakfast?

http://www.google.ca/search?hl=en&source=hp&biw=1080&bih=559&q=neophyte+definition&oq=neophyte+&aq=0&aqi=g10&aql=&gs_sm=c&gs_upl=1991l1991l0l3646l1l1l0l0l0l0l191l191l0.1l1l0

Everything is free if you know what you are doing.

I would elaborate, but the mods might object.

Or everything costs, if you put a value on time and effort.

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