Government Confirms Sovereignty Over The 4.6 Sq Km Area Near The Preah Vihear Temple

[Lite Beer]

Government confirms sovereignty over the 4.6 sq km area near the Preah Vihear Temple

BANGKOK, 18 September 2011 (NNT) –The Defense Ministry has confirmed the country’s sovereignty over the 4.6 sq km area near the Preah Vihear Temple following the Opposition’s call for clarification of the area's status.

Quoting PM Yingluck Shinawatra’s affirmation on facebook that the 4.6 sq km area belongs to the country, Defense Minister Gen. Yuthasak Sasiprapa insisted that the disputed land was inside the Thai border and that Thai troops were still operating there.

Gen. Yuthasak also claimed that there had not been any conflict between the two countries so far. If a misunderstanding occurs, the Thai government is ready to solve the problem with the Cambodian counterpart through diplomatic means.

The Minister is scheduled to visit Cambodia during September 23-24 at the invitation of Defense Minister Gen. Tea Bahn. During the trip, he has also planned to meet PM Hun Sen and King Norodom Sihamoni.

Both sides are expected to discuss all the problematic issues. Results of the meeting will be part of the topics of the upcoming General Border Committee (GBC).

-- NNT 2011-09-18

[whybother]

So, the troops are still there, but there's no fighting. What changed? .... oh, the government.

[pisico]

The way this squabble should have been solved a long time ago.

Let's hope this effort continues because down South there is a real war brewing that rabid nationalists and Khmer haters have been pushing to the back burner for the past 4 years.

But when it comes to Cambodia the arm-chair generals, the Yellow Shirts and the Democrats are always willing to fight to the last Thai and Cambodian soldier...

[rubl]

The way this squabble should have been solved a long time ago.

Let's hope this effort continues because down South there is a real war brewing that rabid nationalists and Khmer haters have been pushing to the back burner for the past 4 years.

But when it comes to Cambodia the arm-chair generals, the Yellow Shirts and the Democrats are always willing to fight to the last Thai and Cambodian soldier...

You mean the UDD, red-shirts and Pheu Thai are willing to forsake a piece of the country? Any comment on the stance of the Cambodian government

"""Hor Namhong, Cambodia's Foreign Minister said, "Samdach [Hun Sen] said Cambodia cannot withdraw troops from the 4.6 kilometre square area, and we will keep this issue for the ICJ. If the ICJ judges that the area belongs to Thailand, Cambodia will offer it to Thailand."""

http://www.phnompenhpost.com/index.php/2011091651697/National-news/relations-back-on-track.html

[finnomick1]

PM Yingluck Shinawatra affirms that the 4.6 sq. km area belongs to the country. Doesn't say " WHICH " country. Don't tell me it's time for steel helmets, road blocks and refugee camps again.....

[venturalaw]

The way this squabble should have been solved a long time ago.

This 'squabble' was solved a long time ago:

Temple of Preah Vihear (Cambodia v. Thailand)

See also : Request for interpretation of the Judgment of 15 June 1962 in the case concerning the Temple of Preah Vihear (Cambodia v. Thailand) (Cambodia v. Thailand)

From the International Court of Justice:

Summary of the Summary of the Judgment of 15 June 1962

CASE CONCERNING THE TEMPLE OF PREAH VIHEAR

(MERITS)

Judgment of 15 June 1962

"In its Judgment on the merits the Court, by nine votes to three, found that the Temple of Preah Vihear was situated in territory under the sovereignty of Cambodia and, in consequence, that Thailand was under an obligation to withdraw any military or police forces, or other guards or keepers, stationed by her at the Temple, or in its vicinity on Cambodian territory.

By seven votes to five, the Court found that Thailand was under an obligation to restore to Cambodia any sculptures, stelae, fragments of monuments, sandstone model and ancient pottery which might, since the date of the occupation of the Temple by Thailand in 1954, have been removed from the Temple or the Temple area by the Thai authorities."

http://www.icj-cij.org/docket/index.php?sum=284&code=ct&p1=3&p2=3&case=45&k=46&p3=5

When Thailand received a ruling that it did not agree with, the ruling was ignored (gee imagine that ).

[rubl]

The way this squabble should have been solved a long time ago.

This 'squabble' was solved a long time ago:

Temple of Preah Vihear (Cambodia v. Thailand)

See also : Request for interpretation of the Judgment of 15 June 1962 in the case concerning the Temple of Preah Vihear (Cambodia v. Thailand) (Cambodia v. Thailand)

From the International Court of Justice:

Summary of the Summary of the Judgment of 15 June 1962

CASE CONCERNING THE TEMPLE OF PREAH VIHEAR

(MERITS)

Judgment of 15 June 1962

"In its Judgment on the merits the Court, by nine votes to three, found that the Temple of Preah Vihear was situated in territory under the sovereignty of Cambodia and, in consequence, that Thailand was under an obligation to withdraw any military or police forces, or other guards or keepers, stationed by her at the Temple, or in its vicinity on Cambodian territory.

By seven votes to five, the Court found that Thailand was under an obligation to restore to Cambodia any sculptures, stelae, fragments of monuments, sandstone model and ancient pottery which might, since the date of the occupation of the Temple by Thailand in 1954, have been removed from the Temple or the Temple area by the Thai authorities."

http://www.icj-cij.org/docket/index.php?sum=284&code=ct&p1=3&p2=3&case=45&k=46&p3=5

When Thailand received a ruling that it did not agree with, the ruling was ignored (gee imagine that ).

The current argument is not the ownership of the temple, but 4.5 sq. miles around it. Recent ruling (three months ago?) by ICJ is only for all troops to be withdrawn.

[softgeorge]

So, the troops are still there, but there's no fighting. What changed? .... oh, the government.

Didn't they make an announcement on Friday that both sides were withdrawing thier troops. What happend did Thailand make out as if they were pulling out and as soon as Cambodia withdrew they snuck back in shouting Ha Ha tricked you we win.

[venturalaw]

Regarding border conflicts, it's a pity that Thailand is so adamant about this dispute when, IMHO, more attention should be focused on the South. The South is a real problem.

Edited September 18, 2011 by venturalaw

[Buchholz]

So, the troops are still there, but there's no fighting. What changed? .... oh, the government.

Didn't they make an announcement on Friday that both sides were withdrawing thier troops.

That was prematurely ejaculated by

The prime ministers of both countries

The troops from both countries remain.

[rubl]

Regarding border conflicts, it's a pity that Thailand is so adamant about this dispute when, IMHO, more attention should be focused on the South. The South is a real problem.

I can only agree with that. On a daily base people are killed there.

Mind you strictly speaking it's not a border conflict. The border between Thailand and Malaysia is agreed upon (as far as I know). With the exception of a Maritime Zone I guess. The conflict is in the Southern most provinces and not even concentrated along the border.

[softgeorge]

Regarding border conflicts, it's a pity that Thailand is so adamant about this dispute when, IMHO, more attention should be focused on the South. The South is a real problem.

I have to agree 100% there are more pressing issues down south than a 4 km stretch of land. I guess it comes down to a loss of face issue which overides common sense on both sides.

[scotbeve]

So, the troops are still there, but there's no fighting. What changed? .... oh, the government.

[Arkady]

"Government confirms sovereignty over the 4.6 sq km area near the Preah Vihear Temple."

But it's OK for the Khmers to station troops there and build a road. Gee! Who cares anyway. Just a small piece of dirt. Better to trade it for another piece of dirt (or seabed) and let everyone who lives around there get on with there normal lives free from interference from Bangkok and Phnom Penh, including ripping off foreign tourists by charging a foreign premium to enter the piece of dirt from the scruffy Thai side. What remains of the temple (or ammunition dump) is not much to do with either side anyway, since it's a Hindu temple.

[venturalaw]

Regarding border conflicts, it's a pity that Thailand is so adamant about this dispute when, IMHO, more attention should be focused on the South. The South is a real problem.

I can only agree with that. On a daily base people are killed there.

Mind you strictly speaking it's not a border conflict. The border between Thailand and Malaysia is agreed upon (as far as I know). With the exception of a Maritime Zone I guess. The conflict is in the Southern most provinces and not even concentrated along the border.

Correct, although I heard that there were faction(s) seeking to actually take over the southern area of Thailand removing it from Thai sovereignty.

[Buchholz]

"Government confirms sovereignty over the 4.6 sq km area near the Preah Vihear Temple."

But it's OK for the Khmers to station troops there and build a road. Gee! Who cares anyway. Just a small piece of dirt. Better to trade it for another piece of dirt (or seabed) and let everyone who lives around there get on with there normal lives free from interference from Bangkok and Phnom Penh, including ripping off foreign tourists by charging a foreign premium to enter the piece of dirt from the scruffy Thai side. What remains of the temple (or ammunition dump) is not much to do with either side anyway, since it's a Hindu temple.

The point of the contention is not so that it can be exchanged for a different seabed. If Cambodia wins this then it is used a basis to contest for the entire 27,000 square kilometers of oil and gas seabed. If the maps for the temples are accepted in their favor, then they can say the same applies for the sea border as they both emanates from the same mapmaker.

Cambodia is hoping that the average sane mind, that would look at the cock-eyed map and say Cambodia is insane if they think maritime borders jump out at a right angle to the land mass and extend directly straight out, doesn't prevail.

There is more at stake here than worthless scrubland. It's just the basis for the biggest prize.

.

Edited September 18, 2011 by Buchholz

[djlest]

ironically as soon as Yingluck is in

She doesn't need to bat an eye - and its all over...

Looks like it was setup from day one

[AbdulJabaar01]

Here we go again.

Both sides want a piece of the pie. Let them have a shared cooperation to the temple in question. Simple, then everyone can go about other issues that are more important then arguing over a piece of land and an old relic.

[bangon04]

What a wonderful age we live in. The PM announces foreign policy on Facebook, and the Defence Minister carries out "diplomacy" for the Kingdom instead of the PM or the Foreign Minister.

Just so we know who is really in charge...

and as for the south - that territory was annexed by Siam, wasn't it?

[Latindancer]

Very interesting post, Buchholz !

That puts a new light on things....

[tigermonkey]

"Government confirms sovereignty over the 4.6 sq km area near the Preah Vihear Temple."

But it's OK for the Khmers to station troops there and build a road. Gee! Who cares anyway. Just a small piece of dirt. Better to trade it for another piece of dirt (or seabed) and let everyone who lives around there get on with there normal lives free from interference from Bangkok and Phnom Penh, including ripping off foreign tourists by charging a foreign premium to enter the piece of dirt from the scruffy Thai side. What remains of the temple (or ammunition dump) is not much to do with either side anyway, since it's a Hindu temple.

The point of the contention is not so that it can be exchanged for a different seabed. If Cambodia wins this then it is used a basis to contest for the entire 27,000 square kilometers of oil and gas seabed. If the maps for the temples are accepted in their favor, then they can say the same applies for the sea border as they both emanates from the same mapmaker.

Cambodia is hoping that the average sane mind, that would look at the cock-eyed map and say Cambodia is insane if they think maritime borders jump out at a right angle to the land mass and extend directly straight out, doesn't prevail.

There is more at stake here than worthless scrubland. It's just the basis for the biggest prize.

.

You are quite corrrect in this assessment of the 'big picture' -- it almost seems pointless to try to negotiate a settlement only on the temple area. Both sides know the the real prize. Is the Royal Thai Navy still trying to buy those used submarines ?

[dighambara]

The way this squabble should have been solved a long time ago.

This 'squabble' was solved a long time ago:

Temple of Preah Vihear (Cambodia v. Thailand)

See also : Request for interpretation of the Judgment of 15 June 1962 in the case concerning the Temple of Preah Vihear (Cambodia v. Thailand) (Cambodia v. Thailand)

From the International Court of Justice:

Summary of the Summary of the Judgment of 15 June 1962

CASE CONCERNING THE TEMPLE OF PREAH VIHEAR

(MERITS)

Judgment of 15 June 1962

"In its Judgment on the merits the Court, by nine votes to three, found that the Temple of Preah Vihear was situated in territory under the sovereignty of Cambodia and, in consequence, that Thailand was under an obligation to withdraw any military or police forces, or other guards or keepers, stationed by her at the Temple, or in its vicinity on Cambodian territory.

By seven votes to five, the Court found that Thailand was under an obligation to restore to Cambodia any sculptures, stelae, fragments of monuments, sandstone model and ancient pottery which might, since the date of the occupation of the Temple by Thailand in 1954, have been removed from the Temple or the Temple area by the Thai authorities."

http://www.icj-cij.org/docket/index.php?sum=284&code=ct&p1=3&p2=3&case=45&k=46&p3=5

When Thailand received a ruling that it did not agree with, the ruling was ignored (gee imagine that ).

Good research, but all BS.

Would the US or UK abide by a foreign court's decision - their idea of where a line should be drawn - nope, never...

The Franco-Siamese treaty clearly states that the area is in Siam (Thailand). However, because some draftsman made a mistake, we have problems...

The Thai have serious claim to much more. No one seems to realize that Siam Reap (victory over Siam) earned that name because the French so desired Angkor, that they massacred all the inhabitants of the former Siamese village.

[Buchholz]

"Government confirms sovereignty over the 4.6 sq km area near the Preah Vihear Temple."

But it's OK for the Khmers to station troops there and build a road. Gee! Who cares anyway. Just a small piece of dirt. Better to trade it for another piece of dirt (or seabed) and let everyone who lives around there get on with there normal lives free from interference from Bangkok and Phnom Penh, including ripping off foreign tourists by charging a foreign premium to enter the piece of dirt from the scruffy Thai side. What remains of the temple (or ammunition dump) is not much to do with either side anyway, since it's a Hindu temple.

The point of the contention is not so that it can be exchanged for a different seabed. If Cambodia wins this then it is used a basis to contest for the entire 27,000 square kilometers of oil and gas seabed. If the maps for the temples are accepted in their favor, then they can say the same applies for the sea border as they both emanates from the same mapmaker.

Cambodia is hoping that the average sane mind, that would look at the cock-eyed map and say Cambodia is insane if they think maritime borders jump out at a right angle to the land mass and extend directly straight out, doesn't prevail.

There is more at stake here than worthless scrubland. It's just the basis for the biggest prize.

.

You are quite corrrect in this assessment of the 'big picture' -- it almost seems pointless to try to negotiate a settlement only on the temple area. Both sides know the the real prize. Is the Royal Thai Navy still trying to buy those used submarines ?

No, that's been cancelled. I think they are trying now to ensure that the name of the body of water they serve in isn't changed to the Gulf of Cambodia, which would seem apropos if they win the maritime border dispute.

.

[Xangsamhua]

and as for the south - that territory was annexed by Siam, wasn't it?

The kingdom/sultanate of Pattani was invaded and held by the Siamese in 1785, and formally annexed in 1902.

There has been ill-feeling by Pattani Malays toward Bangkok for more than 200 years - effectively the whole of the Bangkok era.

In fact the ill-feeling goes back much further, but Ayudhya's attempts to invade were not successful.

[Xangsamhua]

No one seems to realize that Siam Reap (victory over Siam) earned that name because the French so desired Angkor, that they massacred all the inhabitants of the former Siamese village.

Nothing to do with the 16th century defeat of the Siamese at that location by King Ang Chan and the capture of 10,000 Siamese troops?

[serenitynow]

Quoting PM Yingluck Shinawatra's affirmation on facebook that the 4.6 sq km area belongs to the country, Defense Minister Gen. Yuthasak Sasiprapa insisted that the disputed land was inside the Thai border and that Thai troops were still operating there.

If I was on acid all day everyday I couldn't make stuff like this up.

Edited September 18, 2011 by serenitynow

[Siam Simon]

"Government confirms sovereignty over the 4.6 sq km area near the Preah Vihear Temple."

But it's OK for the Khmers to station troops there and build a road. Gee! Who cares anyway. Just a small piece of dirt. Better to trade it for another piece of dirt (or seabed) and let everyone who lives around there get on with there normal lives free from interference from Bangkok and Phnom Penh, including ripping off foreign tourists by charging a foreign premium to enter the piece of dirt from the scruffy Thai side. What remains of the temple (or ammunition dump) is not much to do with either side anyway, since it's a Hindu temple.

The point of the contention is not so that it can be exchanged for a different seabed. If Cambodia wins this then it is used a basis to contest for the entire 27,000 square kilometers of oil and gas seabed. If the maps for the temples are accepted in their favor, then they can say the same applies for the sea border as they both emanates from the same mapmaker.

Cambodia is hoping that the average sane mind, that would look at the cock-eyed map and say Cambodia is insane if they think maritime borders jump out at a right angle to the land mass and extend directly straight out, doesn't prevail.

There is more at stake here than worthless scrubland. It's just the basis for the biggest prize.

.

Both the sovereignty claims over sea mass are absurd. Using the only logical marker (the halfway point between opposing land masses) gives a completely different sea border to both claims.

[Siam Simon]

Quoting PM Yingluck Shinawatra's affirmation on facebook that the 4.6 sq km area belongs to the country, Defense Minister Gen. Yuthasak Sasiprapa insisted that the disputed land was inside the Thai border and that Thai troops were still operating there.

If I was on acid all day everyday I couldn't make stuff like this up.

Oh dear. Here we go again. How many this time, I wonder?

[crazygreg44]

the 4.6 square kilometers in dispute are actually a pile of rocks and dirts inside a jungle.

The only way to solve the ongoing scuffle for land, is to give Cambodia SOME dirt tracks which will allow them access to the temple site itself, which Thailand has undisputed declared territory of Cambodia. As long as Cambodians need PARTS of the disputed 4.6 sqm of land in order to ACCESS the temple, which the Thai side refuses to grant them, the conflict can ' t be settled.

It 's like a kiddie game : I own the street that leads to your temple. The Temple belongs to you, I know and I have long agreed on this. But you cannot access the tmeple, because all the rodas that lead to it, belong to me.

How childish and how false the play is.

I cannot understand why the UN does not call for a halt to the unbearable situation , regarding the rights over 200 meters of DIRT and SCRUBLAND

when do we understand that this is not a border dispute, but a THEATER & DRAMA piece set up by Thai nationalists. A piece where THAI propaganda

directly inflicts and manipulates votes, elections and national interests.

I have long ago warned - speaking talked to my buddies- about the apparent conflict arising about the sea border between Thailand and Cambodia. THIS ONE is not 4.6 square kilometers of useless dirt and rocks. This one means much more to both participants. How do you want to resolve a dispute over 1500 Square kilometers of sea boundaries that possibly hold millions of barrels of oil if you cannot resolve a dispute over some 4 hectars of ant pits ????

It will certainly end in a war, if nobody in Thai government is willing to stop this nonsense and begin to talk strictly diplomacy. I hope I - an expat living in the southeast of the Eesarn - that we will be able to dance with cambodian and thai soldiers on this 2011 New Years evening. I sincerely hope the blockheads on both sides are gonna have an awakening for the benefit of us all.

Is it really only a matter of " FACE LOSS" ???

What has happened here ? Famous question , last scene in the movie "Cannonboats on the Yangtze Kiang" Steve Mc Queen , bullet struck and dying, last words : "what the hell has happened?"

I bear the same question on my lips. Still fail to understand reason.

[whybother]

There is more at stake here than worthless scrubland. It's just the basis for the biggest prize.

Both the sovereignty claims over sea mass are absurd. Using the only logical marker (the halfway point between opposing land masses) gives a completely different sea border to both claims.

Actually, the Thailand line looks like it is a halfway point between the opposing land masses ... at least the line down the centre of the gulf. As for a line going out from the shore, how do you get a halfway point with that one? Do you follow the general line of the land border, or head out to sea at some arbitrary angle? It seems to me that the Thai line seems a more fair line than the Cambodia line.