Bkk Condo Glut

[Darrel]

Do you have a waterfall?

I do. Whenever it rains hard.

[zorro1]

what -5%?

what regular condo fees?

Presumably bank interest (for those with a mortgage) and common fees (for all condo owners).

bank interest would be zero not -5%. who gets 5 % anyway? seems most renters dont understand the system or the market as demonstrated in the last few posts.

common fees are, well.....common.. .....

[GreenSnapper]

bank interest would be zero not -5%. who gets 5 % anyway? seems most renters dont understand the system or the market as demonstrated in the last few posts.

common fees are, well.....common.. .....

OK, I'll try to explain it again. It's all about profitability, or the lack of.

I was talking about a Thai investor, who buys a condo with a mortgage (common case). This investor will have to pay ~5% (not "minus 5%", it means "about 5%") interest to the bank. Plus the monthly communal fees and whatever else.

This same investor will not sell for what he believes "below value", because he doesn't want to make a loss. So he lets the condo stay empty.

When he finally sells a few years later at his original price, he may believe "I did not make a loss".

Indeed he made a huge loss because of all the costs he had in the meanwhile. It was just a dumb investment.

Even if the same investor pays the condo out of his pocket and therefore doesn't need a mortgage, will make a similar loss. Because the same money invested at a fixed account, could make around 4% per year at the moment.

The whole bubble works only on the belief that condo prices go up over the years and that you can sell for a higher price later on. And in the meanwhile you rent out. That worked in the past, as buying prices where lower. It will not work in the future, as better alternatives exist.

For the investor, who personally lives in his condo, this is a different story. He will save on rent and will often have a higher life quality as an owner.

But judging from the huge amount of empty condos, this is a minority.

[PattayaPhom]

You know London, I believe that Thailand and especially Bangkok has now exceeded the financial abilities of many of those who wished to buy in a third world country, which is staggering beautiful.

Maybe they should consider Cambodia, or Outer Mongolia – IMO the world has changed since they dreamed of their aspirations', and of course reality has, quite brutally set in.

PKRV

Absolutly....many find it so hard to understand that Thailand/Asia is almost if not more expensive to live in than Europe/US...gone are the days of living on 25,000 Baht at 75 Baht -Pound.......now its more like 75,000 at 46-pound..do the maths.....with the mass of migration from the Sub-Continent to Europe turning it into an over populated ghetto with insufficient infastructure, is it any wonder why this part of the world is now a far better place to be with regards, services, education, health etc.....many mnay people still view Thailand as most of the poulation wearing a straw hat and picking rice........they dont understand there are actually shopping malls here, and cars, and running water

[Darrel]

For the investor, who personally lives in his condo, this is a different story. He will save on rent and will often have a higher life quality as an owner.

But judging from the huge amount of empty condos, this is a minority.

Indeed.

[PattayaPhom]

For the investor, who personally lives in his condo, this is a different story. He will save on rent and will often have a higher life quality as an owner.

But judging from the huge amount of empty condos, this is a minority.

Indeed.

Take the plunge Darrell......go and buy something...you know it makes sense

[mortenaa]

You must buy a condominium by Foreign Exchange Transaction(s) - Yes you do pay for what you bought..I.e. there are no interest fees. No mortgage whatsoever.

http://www.thaivisa....um-in-thailand/

Well, if you have a work permit, you can transfer your funds into an "non immigrant" account. That's accepted from the Land Department. I was just explained the whole procedure from the poo yai at the Land Department in Sri Nakarin.

[sotsira]

p.s after 5 years the 3.3% transfer is is wiped

I was under that impression as i was told by many in the past,

so i went to the local land department with my condo tittle deeds that i've owned for the

last 6 years and asked them if this was true.

answer: not true you still have to pay all the taxes as per normal

irrelevant of length of ownership 1 year or 10 years it's the same calculation.

They also base the calculation on their valuation which is listed in their records and i

might add that their valuations increase every year irrelevant of the current market status.

So in effect the transfer taxes increase on a yearly basis.

[Darrel]

Take the plunge Darrell......go and buy something...you know it makes sense

Well, some of my millions are sitting in a TMB savings account as we speak, earning me 2.5% but available at an instant's notice.

As soon as I see something I like, at a reasonable price, I will go for it.

I am a bit fussy though, and wont be fobbed off with any old rubbish.

[rgs2001uk]

Take the plunge Darrell......go and buy something...you know it makes sense

Well, some of my millions are sitting in a TMB savings account as we speak, earning me 2.5% but available at an instant's notice.

As soon as I see something I like, at a reasonable price, I will go for it.

I am a bit fussy though, and wont be fobbed off with any old rubbish.

I could swear I saw 3.7 offered in the SCB the other day, I wasnt paying too much attention as it was written in Thai and may well have been pan ta bat, or gov't bonds.

[pkrv]

You must buy a condominium by Foreign Exchange Transaction(s) - Yes you do pay for what you bought..I.e. there are no interest fees. No mortgage whatsoever.

http://www.thaivisa....um-in-thailand/

Well, if you have a work permit, you can transfer your funds into an "non immigrant" account. That's accepted from the Land Department. I was just explained the whole procedure from the poo yai at the Land Department in Sri Nakarin.

Smart arse yes but in a minority of minorities (Farangs) - that's not a particularly helpful comment.

edit - But I have not done this CHECK!

Edited October 11, 2011 by pkrv

[Darrel]

I could swear I saw 3.7 offered in the SCB the other day, I wasnt paying too much attention as it was written in Thai and may well have been pan ta bat, or gov't bonds.

There are indeed higher term rates than the TMB 2.5% available, but as far as I know they all involve penalties if you withdraw early.

My account has no such restriction, which makes it suitable for my needs at the moment.

Thanks anyway.

[PattayaPhom]

Take the plunge Darrell......go and buy something...you know it makes sense

Well, some of my millions are sitting in a TMB savings account as we speak, earning me 2.5% but available at an instant's notice.

As soon as I see something I like, at a reasonable price, I will go for it.

I am a bit fussy though, and wont be fobbed off with any old rubbish.

What exactly are you looking for?...let me know and may have something for you.....

[kanderson]

Within a few hundred meters of my MRT stop:

Your location is probably along Rachadapisek road...lol

I've owned a first class condo off Sukhumvit for eight years. The building is beautifully maintained and accessible to the apparently healthy Japanese rental market.

It has not been a good investment. It is difficult to find either buyers or renters for condos. At best appreciation of these properties over several years does not exceed 5% pa net inflation. If you consider vacancy factors and other overhead the rental return on investment is low' date=' you'd be better off with your money in a savings account. If you like Thailand shophouse conversions (see photo) are a much better buy and more interesting in my view. Some data on this at villageinthecity.com. But renting is sounder all around for most people.

swelters

[/quote']

And at the opposite end Ive owned cheapish condos bought at the right time 5-6 years ago and made over 10% return a year and no problem finding tenants even now it harder times.

Right, me too. I bought at VT 1 about 5 years ago. No problem finding good tenants so far. Not that I'm in it for the money. I like it there myself.

[PattayaPhom]

Take the plunge Darrell......go and buy something...you know it makes sense

Well, some of my millions are sitting in a TMB savings account as we speak, earning me 2.5% but available at an instant's notice.

As soon as I see something I like, at a reasonable price, I will go for it.

I am a bit fussy though, and wont be fobbed off with any old rubbish.

What exactly are you looking for?...let me know and may have something for you.....

Are you looking for something or not???

[Darrel]

Are you looking for something or not???

Keep your hair on! :jap:

You have a PM.

[khaan]

The world is changing....things aren't the same as they were even 6 months ago.

The most salient statement in your entire post. when driving a car do you attach more importance

to what you see in your rearview mirror or what lies on the horizon in front of you?

Edited October 16, 2011 by khaan

[hhgz]

"Bkk Condo Glut Waiting for the crash"

Don't hold your breath. This is one of the favorite (and inaccurate) predictions of ThaiVisa of posters, for many years.

[aussiebebe]

"Bkk Condo Glut Waiting for the crash"

Don't hold your breath. This is one of the favorite (and inaccurate) predictions of ThaiVisa of posters, for many years.

I have to agree with you. I recently took the BTS extension from Siam to Bearing and was struck by the sheer scale of the city and the masses of condos which have sprung up. There may be a glut but they'll be shifted, especially after people get sick of being flooded out of their homes. Living by the BTS line must be excellent; being able to reach the city center so quickly and pleasantly.

[trogers]

"Bkk Condo Glut Waiting for the crash"

Don't hold your breath. This is one of the favorite (and inaccurate) predictions of ThaiVisa of posters, for many years.

I have to agree with you. I recently took the BTS extension from Siam to Bearing and was struck by the sheer scale of the city and the masses of condos which have sprung up. There may be a glut but they'll be shifted, especially after people get sick of being flooded out of their homes. Living by the BTS line must be excellent; being able to reach the city center so quickly and pleasantly.

While earlier predictions have not be realised, the present may be different due mainly to over extending mortgage credit. The phenomenon of 100% mortgages started less than 2 years ago, and was only stopped by BoT recently.

This could be the reason for quite a number of resale units of completed projects from both large and small developers.

[Darrel]

The phenomenon of 100% mortgages started less than 2 years ago, and was only stopped by BoT recently.

Thank God.

Anything over 80% is insanity, and pretty well guaranteed to fuel a sub-prime mortgage crisis.

[houseinbkk]

Surely all but lazy greedy parasitical so called "INVESTORS" should be hoping for house prices in BKK to crash so they are affordable for people to LIVE in, without having to work 50 hours a week for 30 years to pay for a 45m2 slave box.

Its the utter scum of the earth who see property as an investment as opposed to somewhere to live that have caused the current financial crisis .... though they prefer to blame it on the banks, government and their socialist policies as they like to see themselves as genius capitalists.

We've had the worlds biggest property boom ever in the last 12/13 years if BKK apartments arent over valued id be surprised.

Edit, the few on here who mock others for not buying as they accuse them of not being able to afford 5 million bht for a 50m2 apartment in On Nut or similar location must have money to burn or suffer from having financial intellect similar to that Mr No More Boom And Bust aka Gordon Brown.

Edited October 16, 2011 by houseinbkk

[Darrel]

Its the utter scum of the earth who see property as an investment as opposed to somewhere to live that have caused the current financial crisis .... though they prefer to blame it on the banks, government and their socialist policies as they like to see themselves as genius capitalists.

The thing that annoys me most about property in Thailand is that the government makes no attempt at all to inject a little order and decency into it, which they could so easily do by introducing proper capital gains tax, with relief for owner-occupiers and long-term owners of course.

This would remove the "Pattaya flippers", and that could only be a good thing. They are busy creating a mountain of some of the most shoddy and over-priced property I have ever seen.

[houseinbkk]

Its the utter scum of the earth who see property as an investment as opposed to somewhere to live that have caused the current financial crisis .... though they prefer to blame it on the banks, government and their socialist policies as they like to see themselves as genius capitalists.

The thing that annoys me most about property in Thailand is that the government makes no attempt at all to inject a little order and decency into it, which they could so easily do by introducing proper capital gains tax, with relief for owner-occupiers and long-term owners of course.

This would remove the "Pattaya flippers", and that could only be a good thing. They are busy creating a mountain of some of the most shoddy and over-priced property I have ever seen.

Agreed but on the other hand the laissez faire attitude of govt that enables buildings to go up with little regulation thus creating excessive supply is the one thing thats keeping property just about affordable, at least for foreigners and those earning over 1.5 million bht a year anyway.

[thaihome]

...The thing that annoys me most about property in Thailand is that the government makes no attempt at all to inject a little order and decency into it, ...

That very lack of government control is of course is what many find attractive here.

Personally I like living and doing business somewhere where the government does not protect you from your own stupidity.

TH

Edited October 18, 2011 by thaihome

[Darrel]

Personally I like living and doing business somewhere where the government does not protect you from your own stupidity.

Hmm. An interesting notion. Or to put it another way, perhaps you just like being able to rip people off without any risk of being prosecuted or heavily taxed as you possibly would be in a more civilised society? You should be a jet-ski operator.

And it's a shame you didn't quote everything I wrote in the earlier post, as I very clearly mentioned that the control I was looking for was taxation control, in order to prevent profiteering. Such taxation hurts no one of any importance; it only affects property "investors". And, to be perfectly honest, they are indeed the scum of the earth as they have no regard for anyone or anything apart from themselves, and benefit no one apart from themselves. And this, of course, is why civilised countries limit their activities.

[bbradsby]

Bit of a scorched Earth policy, methinks. Great Tag Line tho! just needs Homer's finishing touch:

Worst thread ever... Worst thread so far!

[bbradsby]

That very lack of government control is of course is what many find attractive here.

Personally I like living and doing business somewhere where the government does not protect you from your own stupidity.

TH

... or protect us from the govt's own stupidity, such as what is playing out right now with the floods: lack of land-use planning regs to minimize runoff and locate facilities rationally (oh, ya, thad'd be control), crisis management (oh, ya sorry, control), emergency response central coordination (oh, geez, control again! waaaah...)

[pkrv]

Surely all but lazy greedy parasitical so called "INVESTORS" should be hoping for house prices in BKK to crash so they are affordable for people to LIVE in, without having to work 50 hours a week for 30 years to pay for a 45m2 slave box.

Its the utter scum of the earth who see property as an investment as opposed to somewhere to live that have caused the current financial crisis .... though they prefer to blame it on the banks, government and their socialist policies as they like to see themselves as genius capitalists.

We've had the worlds biggest property boom ever in the last 12/13 years if BKK apartments arent over valued id be surprised.

Edit, the few on here who mock others for not buying as they accuse them of not being able to afford 5 million bht for a 50m2 apartment in On Nut or similar location must have money to burn or suffer from having financial intellect similar to that Mr No More Boom And Bust aka Gordon Brown.

Purely out of of interest hown much did you borrow?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vVkFb26u9g8

[aussiebebe]

This flooding may have an effect on the BK condo glut - I see so many families flooded out and renting condos in the present crisis with no reason to hope that this may not all happen again next year.