Chiang Mai International Schools

[takinglifeslowly]

My apologies if you Chiang Mai folks are bored of International School Threads. I have done the searches and there are a lot of them, but none that tell me what I want to know. It seems I am forced into posting myself, for the first time.

Specifically, I want to know what the different school's academic standards/examination results are like. I am in Bangkok at the moment, with my two daughters (8 and 12 years old). Due to business commitments we are going to be moving up to Chiang Mai soon. It is probably going to be a long term stay so I want to get the choice of school right straight from the off if at all possible.

So, I am open to American, UK, whatever, system but I do want a school with high academic standards. My girls are both doing pretty well where they are. They are not top of their classes, but not far behind either. I want to get them into a school where they can achieve what I believe they are capable of. I have tried looking through the different international school websites, but it seems to me that they aren't too keen on sharing information about actual results. Maybe some of the parents out there who read this forum can share some insight with me?

I am very interested to know about PTIS. They are like double the price of most of the others, but presumably very good to justify that cost. I see that they do the International Baccalaureate. What were their results like over the last few years?

APIS I see also does the International Baccalaureate. What were their results like over the last few years?

LIST does the British A Levels. What were their results like over the last few years?

CMIS. They do some APs. What subjects do they do at AP? What were their results like over the last few years?

NIS. Do they do APs? I can't see it on their website. What international examinations do they do?

GIS. I don't think this place is really relevant to us as we are not christian missionaries or even christian at all. What do they do? Are their examination results any good? We could always pretend!

As far as I can see that is all of the international schools in Chiang Mai. Unless you can tell me otherwise? I really don't want to consider Thai schools with English programs, and still lots of Thai input. I am looking very much for an accredited "western style" international school for my daughters.

So, HELP ME. Do you know about the quality of academics (examination results specifically) at any of these schools?

My apologies for such a long post. All help GREATLY appreciated.

[Hugh Jarse]

I was in a similar situation 6 years ago and would suggest that you spend 5-6 days in CNX to interview the admissions staff and ideally some teachers and carry out your own research. You should ask for longditudinal exam. results when you grill them, as well ask about the qualifications of the teachers and how long they have worked at the school .. Hang around outside the school gates and interview some of the parents .This is a major decision and you need to be sure (ish) that you pick the right school for your children. They all have their strenghts and weaknesses. Also consider location and relative proximity from home to the school.

On a final note we decided not to use any of the international schools as we wanted our children to be fluent in the Thai language as well as their mother tongues.International schools tend not to focus on Thai.

There is a lot of information in this thread about education in Chiang Mai and some rivetting stuff too.

Good luck.

[KayCee]

Re: CMIS - we're new so I can't help you with past years' outcomes on the AP exams, but I can tell you what AP courses were on offer this year:

Calculus

Biology

Chemistry

Physics

Economics

English

Psychology

World History

US History

Studio Art

[Hugh Jarse]

Re: CMIS - we're new so I can't help you with past years' outcomes on the AP exams, but I can tell you what AP courses were on offer this year:

Calculus

Biology

Chemistry

Physics

Economics

English

Psychology

World History

US History

Studio Art

[Hugh Jarse]

Re: CMIS - we're new so I can't help you with past years' outcomes on the AP exams, but I can tell you what AP courses were on offer this year:

Calculus

Biology

Chemistry

Physics

Economics

English

Psychology

World History

US History

Studio Art

NOTE well, the paucity of language learning: no Thai, no Mandarin or European languages! Also, most worrying is the absense of any vocational studies. No wonder so many families shy away from this institution.!

[KayCee]

Re: CMIS - we're new so I can't help you with past years' outcomes on the AP exams, but I can tell you what AP courses were on offer this year:

Calculus

Biology

Chemistry

Physics

Economics

English

Psychology

World History

US History

Studio Art

NOTE well, the paucity of language learning: no Thai, no Mandarin or European languages! Also, most worrying is the absense of any vocational studies. No wonder so many families shy away from this institution.!

I didn't give the whole schedule, only the AP classes. Of course there are other languages, including Thai. Not vocational studies that I can see though!

[Hugh Jarse]

Re: CMIS - we're new so I can't help you with past years' outcomes on the AP exams, but I can tell you what AP courses were on offer this year:

Calculus

Biology

Chemistry

Physics

Economics

English

Psychology

World History

US History

Studio Art

NOTE well, the paucity of language learning: no Thai, no Mandarin or European languages! Also, most worrying is the absense of any vocational studies. No wonder so many families shy away from this institution.!

I didn't give the whole schedule, only the AP classes. Of course there are other languages, including Thai. Not vocational studies that I can see though!

[HenMeeMai]

This thread is a wonderful idea. I hope lots of people share what they know.

The only one I know about is PTIS, a school that changes its name according to the prevailing weather conditions it seems. It is more commonly known here in Chiang mai by its old name of Prem.

A friend of my son's attends Prem. My son tells me that the highest International Baccalaureate score this year was 34, from a maximum of 45. This isn't a bad score, but hardly impressive if that is really the highest score. A score of 34 would apparently still get you into a fairly decent university, but not top drawer. I am led to believe that many of the students reported in the CityLife magazine by Prem as going to various prestigious institutions didn't actually get the grades required to be accepted and ended up going elsewhere. Can anyone confirm this?

I only know about the top grade for this year I am afraid, not the actual spread of results. This I would be very interested in knowing. How many of the students graduated with the full IB diploma? To get the diploma, you need a minimum of 24 points according to wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IB_Diploma_Programme)

Some Thai schools certainly do extremely well at IB, and publish their results in full. Why don't all? ISB Bangkok did really well this year. From their website "ISB IB diploma students achieved a 100% pass rate with 62 diplomas awarded. The world average pass rate for the IB Diploma for May 2011 is 78%. Total diploma scores range from 26 - 43 points and the average diploma score is 35. The world average diploma score this year is 29." 35 is certainly a tremendous AVERAGE, with a top score of 43. Now that is impressive.

I don't think I can link to ISB's results here, but if you Google for "isb ib results" you should find your way there.

[farangajarn]

For full scores and information for IG results at Lanna International School you can check their webpage as they are posted for all to see:

http://lannaist.ac.th/component/content/article/14/133-igcse-success

They are well worth taking a look at. As external exams they show true grades, learning levels and results. No padded results, numbers or feel good grades.

[Dante99]

This thread is a wonderful idea. I hope lots of people share what they know.

The only one I know about is PTIS, a school that changes its name according to the prevailing weather conditions it seems. It is more commonly known here in Chiang mai by its old name of Prem.

A friend of my son's attends Prem. My son tells me that the highest International Baccalaureate score this year was 34, from a maximum of 45. This isn't a bad score, but hardly impressive if that is really the highest score. A score of 34 would apparently still get you into a fairly decent university, but not top drawer. I am led to believe that many of the students reported in the CityLife magazine by Prem as going to various prestigious institutions didn't actually get the grades required to be accepted and ended up going elsewhere. Can anyone confirm this?

I only know about the top grade for this year I am afraid, not the actual spread of results. This I would be very interested in knowing. How many of the students graduated with the full IB diploma? To get the diploma, you need a minimum of 24 points according to wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia....ploma_Programme)

Some Thai schools certainly do extremely well at IB, and publish their results in full. Why don't all? ISB Bangkok did really well this year. From their website "ISB IB diploma students achieved a 100% pass rate with 62 diplomas awarded. The world average pass rate for the IB Diploma for May 2011 is 78%. Total diploma scores range from 26 - 43 points and the average diploma score is 35. The world average diploma score this year is 29." 35 is certainly a tremendous AVERAGE, with a top score of 43. Now that is impressive.

I don't think I can link to ISB's results here, but if you Google for "isb ib results" you should find your way there.

Reading the ISB ib results you find that 204 students took one or more of the ib subject exams. They mention different groups of students who took it but not the numbers of students in the groups. The point is that they say 62 students were awarded the diploma so that means that a lot of students did not try to get the full diploma(yes some grade 11 students took some exams too but there were a bunch of grade 12 students who did not take the full diploma). Thus the results are impacted by the school's influence on which students take the full diploma exams, which is true at most IB schools but stronger at some. Clearly sending your child to an IB school does not mean they will get an IB diploma or even be in the running for one starting in grade 11.

I am not negative about the ISB results which in many ways are strong but I caution you all to look very carefully at the information you receive from schools because the presentation and what they present is so often a marketing deal designed to sell the school to parents not designed to inform parents.

Hen Mee Mai,

Your information about Prem comes to you third hand, if you really want reliable data you should get printed information directly from the school, Jon Hartman at Prem.

[ChrissyRichman]

Hi,<BR><BR>The school my children are at; Lanna International School has just added a new page to it's website specifically to announce exam results. I'm not able to post the link as I haven't been a member long enough, but you will now find a page named Exam Successes on the school website. We came here from England three years ago and chose Lanna after visiting several schools, purely on the basis of the obvious knowledge and commitment of the teaching staff. Our expectations have been exceeded.. <BR><BR>We have two boys, currently 11 and 14....years 7 and 10. When we arrived both had been doing well in primary school in the UK and the eldest was facing the challenge of making the transition to secondary school as well as to a new country. I was a bundle of nerves on his behalf, but was dealt with kindly and firmly by the Head of the Secondary School, who assured me that they'd managed this kind of thing before! My son, a fairly shy and not particularly confident boy at the time, was settled within a week. His level of confidence has grown and he excels at several subjects and has made progress in weaker areas......specifically maths.<BR><BR>My youngest has moved through years 4, 5 &amp; 6 in primary school and has entered year 7 (1st year of secondary), thrilled to find that the work is in his opinion " more interesting", which he has concluded, makes up for all the extra homework. I feel that he is being challenged at the right level to make him exert himself........and encouraged to feel proud of his acchievements.<BR><BR>As you can probably tell, I'm very impressed with the school........the academic stats which are posted on the web page are impressive....but not surprising to me. Parent teacher communication is actively facilitated and encouraged at Lanna so I have had the opportunity to see the skill and commitment of the Head and teaching staff at first hand during parent/teacher interviews, Science Fairs, school plays, a super impressive talent night, exhibitions of students art and photography and various sporting activities.<BR><BR>I also get to hear enthusiastic blow by blow accounts of History, English and other classes.......rather than the more traditional reply of "don't remember" when I ask my kids how their school day went.<BR><BR>I haven't posted on here for ages.....but re-registered in order to respond to your question as I remember very well how vital this decision is and how hard to get clear information....like exam results, at many schools. I'm happy to be contacted by e-mail if you want.. Good luck!

[ChrissyRichman]

PS to my post....sorry about the various notations 'BR&gt " etc which have appeared. I'm not experienced at posting....perhaps I did something wrong?

[Ricardo]

APIS I see also does the International Baccalaureate.

But only the IBO-PYP Primary Years Programme, from Kindergarden to grade-5, according to their website. Not the Middle Years programme or IB-Diploma, as yet. So will only be for one of the OP's children, for a couple of years, the elder is already at MYP-age.

By the way, Welcome to Chiang Mai, for yet another farang family !

[takinglifeslowly]

Reading the ISB ib results you find that 204 students took one or more of the ib subject exams. They mention different groups of students who took it but not the numbers of students in the groups. The point is that they say 62 students were awarded the diploma so that means that a lot of students did not try to get the full diploma(yes some grade 11 students took some exams too but there were a bunch of grade 12 students who did not take the full diploma). Thus the results are impacted by the school's influence on which students take the full diploma exams, which is true at most IB schools but stronger at some. Clearly sending your child to an IB school does not mean they will get an IB diploma or even be in the running for one starting in grade 11.

I am not negative about the ISB results which in many ways are strong but I caution you all to look very carefully at the information you receive from schools because the presentation and what they present is so often a marketing deal designed to sell the school to parents not designed to inform parents.

If I understand what you are saying correctly, then many ISB students do not graduate with a full IB diploma. Given that they get a 100% pass rate from those who try for it then in all likelihood they are cutting off other students who may have gained a full diploma, just to maintain a 100% pass rate. Does that sound right to you? If so, then that is appalling; all in the cause of marketing a 100% pass rate.

How does that compare to PTIS? I cannot send my children to ISB! Does PTIS enter everybody for the IB? If not, then what are the percentages? Does anyone out there have good information about what happens up at PTIS?

Also, thank you everyone else for the information you are sharing. It seems CMIS has a small number of AP courses on offer, so they will be worth considering. What have their AP results been like? LIST has been getting some good IGCSE and A Level results according to their website, so I will certainly be taking a serious look at them. What about NIS? Do they do AP courses, or only internal courses at the moment? What about APIS? What AP courses do they offer?

Please keep it coming folks.

[Dante99]

Reading the ISB ib results you find that 204 students took one or more of the ib subject exams. They mention different groups of students who took it but not the numbers of students in the groups. The point is that they say 62 students were awarded the diploma so that means that a lot of students did not try to get the full diploma(yes some grade 11 students took some exams too but there were a bunch of grade 12 students who did not take the full diploma). Thus the results are impacted by the school's influence on which students take the full diploma exams, which is true at most IB schools but stronger at some. Clearly sending your child to an IB school does not mean they will get an IB diploma or even be in the running for one starting in grade 11.

I am not negative about the ISB results which in many ways are strong but I caution you all to look very carefully at the information you receive from schools because the presentation and what they present is so often a marketing deal designed to sell the school to parents not designed to inform parents.

If I understand what you are saying correctly, then many ISB students do not graduate with a full IB diploma. Given that they get a 100% pass rate from those who try for it then in all likelihood they are cutting off other students who may have gained a full diploma, just to maintain a 100% pass rate. Does that sound right to you? If so, then that is appalling; all in the cause of marketing a 100% pass rate.

How does that compare to PTIS? I cannot send my children to ISB! Does PTIS enter everybody for the IB? If not, then what are the percentages? Does anyone out there have good information about what happens up at PTIS?

Also, thank you everyone else for the information you are sharing. It seems CMIS has a small number of AP courses on offer, so they will be worth considering. What have their AP results been like? LIST has been getting some good IGCSE and A Level results according to their website, so I will certainly be taking a serious look at them. What about NIS? Do they do AP courses, or only internal courses at the moment? What about APIS? What AP courses do they offer?

Please keep it coming folks.

I think you got the idea right.

PTIS does not have and has probably never has had all it's grade 11 and grade 12 students enrolled in the full IB Diploma Program which is a 2 year program. Few "IB Schools" have 100% of their students in the full program which does make it difficult to sort out what is going on with test results. Some schools cut off firmly, others loosely and there are students who the schools unsucessfully try to cut off who refuse the school's recommendation and go on to earn the full IB Diploma.

If you get it sorted out, let us know. Good luck.

[slapout]

At least you can get somewhat of a feel for the students and the schools regard for academics at Lanna and Prem. CMIS does not seem concerned with the progress of the high school students, academically compared to other college bound students. The PSAT and Sat are offered on a yearly basis at parent expense. They did do some testing at the grade school level in the past, but it was a selected group on a rotating basis. Parents concern/requests have brought no change in the past 3 years.

Any school can publish numbers, but how the students compare to other students of like age and plans (university) is one way of appraising the accomplishments/needs of the student. It can be difficult to decipher all the info put out but as parents we can use input from those involved and come up with a fair idea of what the schools goals are and how serious they are about the opportunity to help our children get a first rate education.

[PlanetX]

I agree that the IB and AP programs are beneficial but there are still many high level universities that favor high grades, extra curricular activities, community service and student leadership roles over IB courses.

Edited September 27, 2011 by PlanetX

[DaamNaam]

On Buddhist Wisdom In Education by Ajahn Jayasaro (Panyaden school).

Rather than an education system which is geared to testing and to competition and to preparing people for a particular livelihood, the emphasis of Buddhist education is on teaching children how to learn, how to enjoy learning, to love wisdom for its own sake. It teaches them the emotional maturity enabling them to make use of their knowledge to create a happy life for themselves and their family and to contribute positively to the society in which they live. It in no way compromises on the work of preparing children to make a good livelihood, but it lets them see that life is deeper and richer than working in order to consume.It seems that these days more and more employers are not looking so much for people with proficiency in a particular area as much as smart, intellectually flexible people who know how to learn new things and can adapt to the changes in new technologies and changes in society. This is because many of the things people learn in schools are out of date by the time they start working, and because in a knowledge- based economy freshness of vision, creativity and innovation are given the highest value.In order to flourish in the world it's not then a matter of merely accumulating a body of knowledge, so much as cultivating a strong but supple mind and the ability to develop life skills such as skillful communication, the ability to work in a team, patience, resilience (the ability to bounce back after disappointments), the ability to manage one's moods, and to protect the mind from pride, arrogance, greed, hatred, depression, anxiety, and panic. These abilities are being increasingly recognized as being more useful and necessary in the long run to a successful working life rather than having a particular degree under your belt. It's becoming clear to what extent a lack of emotional maturity and self-knowledge amongst people in positions of authority undermines the advantages that they should derive from a cultivated intellect.This is why Buddhist education is not at all idealistic. It is not meant to produce unworldly people, virtuous but unable to cope in the so-called "real world'. It is rather based on the conviction that the Buddhist developmental process which can in its fullness take someone all the way to enlightenment, on a scaled-down level provides the best possible kind of education for ordinary people.

Edited September 27, 2011 by DaamNaam

[slapout]

Not trying to be argumentative but the church/temple is where I expect people/students to learn religious ways not the school system. They can learn teamwork via group projects in a classroom, sports, etc. For those wanting religious teaching/training coupled with education for their children, there are plenty of schools who will oblige, Grace being one.

The religious background is fine for those who want it, but I want a graduate engineer to design the plane, train, automobile, etc, that I travel in/on.

[Priceless]

Not trying to be argumentative but the church/temple is where I expect people/students to learn religious ways not the school system. They can learn teamwork via group projects in a classroom, sports, etc. For those wanting religious teaching/training coupled with education for their children, there are plenty of schools who will oblige, Grace being one.

The religious background is fine for those who want it, but I want a graduate engineer to design the plane, train, automobile, etc, that I travel in/on.

Never heard the phrase "on a wing and a prayer"?

/ Priceless

[doppa]

You can have the most talented educators at any school, but in the end, if the students aren't up to it, this will surely reflect on a schools performance, at ptis [prem] they havn't got the student numbers again this year, subsequently they will accept almost any student, there not in a position to cherry pick the brightest, now that in itself COULD spur educators to work harder on the positive side, however the skeptic in me suggests that results will be rather lower than usual.

it's a major problem for the school, but they should have seen this coming, it's not as if it's happened overnight, this must be the 4th yr in a row that student numbers have dropped dramatically, the responsibility for that rests fair and square on the administrators past and present.

[Dante99]

You can have the most talented educators at any school, but in the end, if the students aren't up to it, this will surely reflect on a schools performance, at ptis [prem] they havn't got the student numbers again this year, subsequently they will accept almost any student, there not in a position to cherry pick the brightest, now that in itself COULD spur educators to work harder on the positive side, however the skeptic in me suggests that results will be rather lower than usual.

it's a major problem for the school, but they should have seen this coming, it's not as if it's happened overnight, this must be the 4th yr in a row that student numbers have dropped dramatically, the responsibility for that rests fair and square on the administrators past and present.

Yes, PTIS has been accepting just about anybody they can get for quite a few years and I agree that their situation in many ways is largely a result of administrative deficiencies. The economic downturn did not help but that is just a convenient excuse. There are expensive schools in Asia that have had their classes full and continually have had waiting lists of students wanting to get in. It is about academic quality, a primary commitment to academic and the willingness to invest in it over many years to achieve it.

I too have heard that the enrollment at PTIS has dropped in recent years but did not know what happened this year. Can you tell us what the total number of students at PTIS is this year and how much lower it is than last year?

[iainiain101]

Re: CMIS - we're new so I can't help you with past years' outcomes on the AP exams, but I can tell you what AP courses were on offer this year:

Calculus

Biology

Chemistry

Physics

Economics

English

Psychology

World History

US History

Studio Art

Surely they have Mathematics?

[Ricardo]

I agree that the IB and AP programs are beneficial but there are still many high level universities that favor high grades, extra curricular activities, community service and student leadership roles over IB courses.

But aren't community service and student leadership/development a core part of the IB-system, and quite right too, one reason it's spreading round the world ?

[Puwa]

Re: CMIS - we're new so I can't help you with past years' outcomes on the AP exams, but I can tell you what AP courses were on offer this year:

Calculus

Biology

Chemistry

Physics

Economics

English

Psychology

World History

US History

Studio Art

Surely they have Mathematics?

To clarify, AP or Advanced Placement is a feature of the US education system, explained here http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Advanced_Placement

[doppa]

You can have the most talented educators at any school, but in the end, if the students aren't up to it, this will surely reflect on a schools performance, at ptis [prem] they havn't got the student numbers again this year, subsequently they will accept almost any student, there not in a position to cherry pick the brightest, now that in itself COULD spur educators to work harder on the positive side, however the skeptic in me suggests that results will be rather lower than usual.

it's a major problem for the school, but they should have seen this coming, it's not as if it's happened overnight, this must be the 4th yr in a row that student numbers have dropped dramatically, the responsibility for that rests fair and square on the administrators past and present.

Yes, PTIS has been accepting just about anybody they can get for quite a few years and I agree that their situation in many ways is largely a result of administrative deficiencies. The economic downturn did not help but that is just a convenient excuse. There are expensive schools in Asia that have had their classes full and continually have had waiting lists of students wanting to get in. It is about academic quality, a primary commitment to academic and the willingness to invest in it over many years to achieve it.

I too have heard that the enrollment at PTIS has dropped in recent years but did not know what happened this year. Can you tell us what the total number of students at PTIS is this year and how much lower it is than last year?

totals vary according to who you speak too, i think its under 400 though, i do think that there are changes on the way, with the owner basically in 'charge' and taking a more hands on role, maybe the changes that are necessary, won't be that long in developing.

[KayCee]

Re: CMIS - we're new so I can't help you with past years' outcomes on the AP exams, but I can tell you what AP courses were on offer this year:

Calculus

Biology

Chemistry

Physics

Economics

English

Psychology

World History

US History

Studio Art

Surely they have Mathematics?

AP Calculus is the higher level math. Before you take that, you would take Algebra 1, Geometry, Algebra 2, and then Pre-Calculus - but those are not college level AP classes, only the Calculus is.

[Hugh Jarse]

You can have the most talented educators at any school, but in the end, if the students aren't up to it, this will surely reflect on a schools performance, at ptis [prem] they havn't got the student numbers again this year, subsequently they will accept almost any student, there not in a position to cherry pick the brightest, now that in itself COULD spur educators to work harder on the positive side, however the skeptic in me suggests that results will be rather lower than usual.

it's a major problem for the school, but they should have seen this coming, it's not as if it's happened overnight, this must be the 4th yr in a row that student numbers have dropped dramatically, the responsibility for that rests fair and square on the administrators past and present.

I suspect also that the very high level of fees prevents middle income earning parents placing their children at the PTIS.

[Mapguy]

OP asked some valid but complex questions. Most responders apparently have knowledge of only one or two Chiang Mai schools from first-hand experience. And, unfortunately, there's been inaccurate information as well as bald opinion and casual surmise posted.

One poster had some sensible advice. You have to spend time at the schools, and get beyond the "sales pitch." That takes time, but how should one go about making this sort of decision?

Looking at what appears to be OP's primary concern, there are three strenuous academic strands a child can follow in Chiang Mai in order to gain entrance into a competitive university. The most comprehensive and globally recognized is the IB strand (PTIS). A second is the British "A-Level" approach (Lanna). The last is the "AP" (Advanced Placement) approach (CMIS). None is perfect, but the IB diploma does mean a lot globally; the other two less so. Which one is suitable depends upon the student and the family.

Successful completion of any one of the three courses of study noted will indicate to university admissions officers that the applicant has followed a rigorous path of study, which is a very important determinant of an applicant's suitability to good universities. The AP approach can be "spotty." It depends upon how many AP courses were taken as well as the scores. (Some of them are more strenuous than others.) The British approach (A-levels) can be academically challenging, but the results tend to favor the student's strengths, not always reflecting the overall experience, knowledge base or general preparation of the student. That's because the student selects which subjects to focus on. The IB approach is broader. It demands wide exposure to different areas of subject and skills.

If you think I favor the IB approach, you are certainly correct. But having experience with all three approaches, it isn't the exclusive path to success. Never mind the other significant factors that go into making a successful person! Some, especially the family (statistically those with higher parental educational level) are more important than the school attended or the curriculum followed. All of this, of course, depends upon the ultimately dubious notion that success in life has nothing to do with the student, but only upon his or her parents and schools attended. Never mind still other factors !!

I am not saying that one should give up and just flip a coin. If you look at the three schools I have referred to above, I refuse to say any one of them is a guaranteed road to success with university admission and whatever follows. ALL of those schools --- as well as most international schools in Chiang Mai not mentioned --- accept basically what comes in. Otherwise, tuition costs is the major (and valid) concern. What is important to good schools is not how brilliant the entering students are but how far along students progress. Not everyone is going to become an Einstein, and Bill Gates never finished Harvard although his dad did.

When it comes to price, I tend to believe you generally get what you pay for; not altogether true, but money counts in attracting administrative and educational talent. That's just sensible. Unless it is going into a proprietor's pocket, and that is not the case with the three schools mentioned.

So, I hope you will start referring to the schools' web sites for starters. Then spend some thoughtful time at each school you are seriously considering.

And good luck!

[takinglifeslowly]

Again, thank you all, especially Mapguy, for some really quite thought provoking input. I have been hunting around the different school's websites to see what academic qualifications (Advanced Placements; IB; ALevel) each offers. I do realise that this is not the be-all and end-all of education and all of the "extras"matter a lot to me in choosing where to put my daughters, but good academics is a good starting point too.

So, to summarise the academic courses on offer it seems that (PLEASE correct me if I am wrong):

CMIS - Advanced Placements (10 courses available)

NIS - Advanced Placements (only 3 courses available?)

LIST - A Levels (17 courses available)

PTIS - IB Diploma or Certificates

GIS - not relevant to my family, but does do Advanced Placements

I will be visiting Chiang Mai later this year to have a look around these schools and try to get a feel for them. I will visit all of them I think, but due to the academics it seems to me to be a three horse race for us at the moment: CMIS, LIST and PTIS.

LIST seems to get some very nice write-ups on Thaivisa in recent years and I am astonished to see that they offer such a full range of British A Levels up in Chiang Mai, whilst still charging reasonable fees, so they are top of my list at the moment.

PTIS is second on my list. I like the idea of the IB, but I am a little wary given what I have been reading on this forum. It's also very expensive. I will just have to go visit and form my own opinion I suppose.

CMIS is also very much on my radar, with 10 Advanced Placements on offer. I'd like to know more from any parent of students attending CMIS.

Again, thank you al for sharing your insights. At least now I have a great starting point. THANK YOU.