Thai Student Nazi Dress-Up Day Causes Outrage

[LivinLOS]

My wife (of two years) is making fish cakes as we speak, which are excellent by the way, but I digress.

After reading this thread I thought I'd ask her, as despite having a high school education she has always seemed very ignorant of history and geography.

"Have you heard of the Nazis?"

"NASA? Yes, one of the things in the sky fell down yesterday"

"No, Nazis. They killed lots of Jews in the Holocaust, and many, many other people in World War II"

"I don't know about Jews"

"What about Hitler?"

"What Hitler?"

I'm reaching OMG status by now. The conversation continued and her knowledge of WWII is limited to the Japanese, the Burma Railway and the fact that Australians were there.

There you go. I should add however that she is a wonderful person who doesn't display many of the characteristics that are often portrayed here as being "typical Thai" - profoundly selfish, devoid of morals, only after money etc. Just a victim of a crappy education system. Rest assured I shall be addressing the situation. She is at least aware now that WWII wiped out almost 4 times the population of Thailand (which was about 15 million in 1940). She'll be on a virtual tour of Auschwitz this evening. At least there will be one more Thai aware of what happened.

I must say I'm pretty amazed.

Ok so without googling it tell us what you know about Guerre franco-thaïlandaise and while you are at it what was Phibun's real name?

I'm not trying to rain on your parade but 99% of those who amazed at Thais for not knowing who Hitler was should look at themselves.

There is simply a huge void between East and West and what events in history are/were important to one is of little interest to the other.

Because of where we come and our countries involvment Hitler is very much to the fore when it comes to the most evil man who ever lived.

The mention of his name makes your skin crawl, yet mention Mengistu Haile Mariam to the ordinary man on the street in the UK and he'll say "WHO?"

We should not expect Thai people to know what we know without knowing what they know. Not unless you think you are some sort of superior being

To be fair the Ethiopian red terror killed a few 1000 (max 20k ??) people.. Bit different to a global conflict and the genocide and systematic torture of millions no ??

Secondly starts asking them about south east asian history, let alone western history.. Your argument falls flat when (on average) we know much more about their history than your average Thai does ??

[huuwi]

i'm sick of reading this, i'm a 1960 generation, now we have 2011.

get over it.

I'm also 1960's born; and when something as massive as this was happens in history, I hardly think "get over it" is the appropriate response. Just as a matter of interest what nationality are you and how many people in your family were affected?

I was born right after WW11 and I remember my father telling me the horrible stories of what the Germans did. We should NEVER forget. If talking about it makes cmsally sick, he should look at the pictures that are available. THEN he would have something to get sick about.

Out of respect for those in Nagasaki and Hiroshima, we should also be outraged at Nuclear Symbols and the proud display of the bomber used to drop the bomb on the civilians in Hiroshima.

Oh wait, we won the war. So, we get to decide what is offence and not.

thumbs up

[h90]

Ma ma ma Hitler face ma ma Hitler face ma ma ma

look at that: http://www.catsthatlooklikehitler.com

[cowslip]

As an aside - do posters realise that the "Swastika" and the Thai greeting come from the same root?

"Sa-was -dee - khap"

check the Thai spelling

Edited September 27, 2011 by cowslip

[blackout]

Secondly starts asking them about south east asian history, let alone western history.. Your argument falls flat when (on average) we know much more about their history than your average Thai does ??

you sure about that?

[WarpSpeed]

Secondly starts asking them about south east asian history, let alone western history.. Your argument falls flat when (on average) we know much more about their history than your average Thai does ??

you sure about that?

Without doubt..

[SabaiBKK]

I can't really see the big deal. The fact that they are unaware of the holocaust means they are pretty much unaware of the political beliefs of the Nazis so this is no more than a simple fancy dress. I'm sure fancy dress suppliers in the west provide Nazi uniforms for those who want them. Also although the Nazi regime was clearly an evil regime would everybody be equally appalled if they had shown up as British Redcoats given the atrocities committed by British during their worldwide campaigns. How about the US cavalry? Was the massacre of native Americans and the establishment of concentration camps sorry Reservations any different. How about the Roman Legionares or NATO forces or Russians. Fancy dress would be restricted to fairy story characters because in reality nobody is a saint once they get power. So why not let the kids enjoy their innocent bit of fun and maybe discuss how to overcome the Burmese junta or the cruel regimes in Africa and worldwide, which preside today and still continue to oppress and murder innocent people.

"I can't really see the big deal."

I can't think of anything more dangerous than a population that is unaware of the ways that people like the Nazis come to power.

I can't think of anything more dangerous than a population that is unaware of the ways that people like the Nazis communists come to power.

I can't think of anything more dangerous than a population that is unaware of the ways that people like the Nazis communists come to power.

I can't think of anything more dangerous than a population that is unaware of the ways that people like the Nazis communists Catholic church come to power.

I can't think of anything more dangerous than a population that is unaware of the ways that people like the Nazis communists Catholic church bush administration come to power.

ETC... ETC...

no outcry if they were reenacting the otoman soldiers killing armenians ..... stallin killing more people than the holocaust ... pol pot killing 2 million cambodians ...

[drdoom6996]

Simple lack of education. And there's a lot they are not given the benefit of. They are not even taught Thai history properly. It's taught like a fairy tale. While the government supports the burning of Bangkok, getting a brother home and a Temple that is on a border our children suffer with little or no education. Miracle Thailand the Land of Smiles.

[LivinLOS]

*shrug* as offensive as it is to us westerners, I'm pretty sure the kids meant no harm... Is there anything in Thai history that they could relate to, a local ethnic cleansing of some kind, to help explain what a sick bunch of people was running Germany at the time? Closest thing I can think of is a bunch of foreigners parading around in ancient Burmese military uniforms? Let's try that someday

Anyway, the holocaust must be a completely foreign concept, Nazis are bad guys like they see in the movies and that funny looking Hitler dude is the Big Boss that the American soldiers had to defeat... So they really have no way of grasping the horribleness of it all... Yes, the teachers should have known better, that's for sure, but this is just a cultural misunderstanding, not something meant to be offensive...

Which is fine until you try explaining its just a cultural misunderstanding when a tourist accidentally raises the sole of his foot to an overreacting Thai.

How would you 'accidentally' raise your foot?

In all the years I've been here, never seen this scenario.

Just a few weeks ago in Patong.. Tourists clamber in the back of a tuktuk and in the restricted space a farang puts his foot up on the other side, which a driver in the Rd outside took to be 'in his general direction' he then steamed around and started laying punches without any warning on the basis of this offense.

[vincentc]

So what?

Remember, these were just kids with costumes and plastic machine guns right?

Just like western kids might dress like ninjas or samurais.

would it be different if they dressed as Japanese suicide pilots? or Napoleontic armymen? Or American bomber pilots?

Whose history matters most?

This nazi-stigma and the perpetuation of guild-feelings is not part of Thai history and very rightly so. That's why perhaps only the expat parents at school took offence.

The past is the past in Thailand (that's why their historians suck) and perhaps we should learn from that.

It's been 3 generations since the Nazis, isn't it time to get over it??

[TheFishman1]

I lost a lot of family member in WW !! and I think that after reading all of the above lets never for get or like one person said get over it make me sick all the BS in the world and as far as the school system and teachers here LOL

[blackout]

Secondly starts asking them about south east asian history, let alone western history.. Your argument falls flat when (on average) we know much more about their history than your average Thai does ??

you sure about that?

Without doubt..

what make you so sure? i can not seem to find a good support on that.

many westhern i know even think that taiwan and thailand are the same! but all thai i know know that the USA and the UK are difference country.

should i assume that average western know less, average thai know more on the subject matter?

no!

[WarpSpeed]

I'm also 1960's born; and when something as massive as this was happens in history, I hardly think "get over it" is the appropriate response. Just as a matter of interest what nationality are you and how many people in your family were affected?

I was born right after WW11 and I remember my father telling me the horrible stories of what the Germans did. We should NEVER forget. If talking about it makes cmsally sick, he should look at the pictures that are available. THEN he would have something to get sick about.

Out of respect for those in Nagasaki and Hiroshima, we should also be outraged at Nuclear Symbols and the proud display of the bomber used to drop the bomb on the civilians in Hiroshima.

Oh wait, we won the war. So, we get to decide what is offence and not.

thumbs up

Really? One reaps what one sows...

[cowslip]

i'm sick of reading this, i'm a 1960 generation, now we have 2011.

get over it.

I'm also 1960's born; and when something as massive as this was happens in history, I hardly think "get over it" is the appropriate response. Just as a matter of interest what nationality are you and how many people in your family were affected?

it's about costume, so let them do what they like.

as a catholic school, what about get dressed as Inquisition guys, is this more in your favour.

It's not the "dressing up" that is the actual problem is it???

THe problem is that the students has NO IDEA of what these costumes signified. This is especially concerning as it took place in the CATHOLIC school.

[WarpSpeed]

Secondly starts asking them about south east asian history, let alone western history.. Your argument falls flat when (on average) we know much more about their history than your average Thai does ??

you sure about that?

Without doubt..

what make you so sure? i can not seem to find a good support on that.

many westhern i know even think that taiwan and thailand are the same! but all thai i know know that the USA and the UK are difference country.

should i assume that average western know less, average thai know more on the subject matter?

no!

Clearly you run in the same educational circles..

[cowslip]

you're

I can't really see the big deal. The fact that they are unaware of the holocaust means they are pretty much unaware of the political beliefs of the Nazis so this is no more than a simple fancy dress. I'm sure fancy dress suppliers in the west provide Nazi uniforms for those who want them. Also although the Nazi regime was clearly an evil regime would everybody be equally appalled if they had shown up as British Redcoats given the atrocities committed by British during their worldwide campaigns. How about the US cavalry? Was the massacre of native Americans and the establishment of concentration camps sorry Reservations any different. How about the Roman Legionares or NATO forces or Russians. Fancy dress would be restricted to fairy story characters because in reality nobody is a saint once they get power. So why not let the kids enjoy their innocent bit of fun and maybe discuss how to overcome the Burmese junta or the cruel regimes in Africa and worldwide, which preside today and still continue to oppress and murder innocent people.

"I can't really see the big deal."

I can't think of anything more dangerous than a population that is unaware of the ways that people like the Nazis come to power.

I can't think of anything more dangerous than a population that is unaware of the ways that people like the Nazis communists come to power.

I can't think of anything more dangerous than a population that is unaware of the ways that people like the Nazis communists come to power.

I can't think of anything more dangerous than a population that is unaware of the ways that people like the Nazis communists Catholic church come to power.

I can't think of anything more dangerous than a population that is unaware of the ways that people like the Nazis communists Catholic church bush administration come to power.

ETC... ETC...

no outcry if they were reenacting the otoman soldiers killing armenians ..... stallin killing more people than the holocaust ... pol pot killing 2 million cambodians ...

I'd say that you are just about getting the point. I find it worrying that most posters don't see these issues as - to quote Mr Cleese as "Bleedin' Obvious"

Edited September 27, 2011 by cowslip

[LivinLOS]

Secondly starts asking them about south east asian history, let alone western history.. Your argument falls flat when (on average) we know much more about their history than your average Thai does ??

you sure about that?

'Average Thai' yeah I'll take that bet..

[rogerdoger10]

just when you thought you were quite over the culture shock...

[blackout]

Clearly you run in the same educational circles..

you can just say whatever you like. anyone can do that just to support their own believe. that doesn't make it a fact....at all!

and thank for my education comment, i still happy that my education circles did not teach me to just imply whatever i see and know as an absolute correct reasons and argument. b/c that will just show how little one actually know.

Edited September 27, 2011 by blackout

[Kananga]

*shrug* as offensive as it is to us westerners, I'm pretty sure the kids meant no harm... Is there anything in Thai history that they could relate to, a local ethnic cleansing of some kind, to help explain what a sick bunch of people was running Germany at the time? Closest thing I can think of is a bunch of foreigners parading around in ancient Burmese military uniforms? Let's try that someday

Anyway, the holocaust must be a completely foreign concept, Nazis are bad guys like they see in the movies and that funny looking Hitler dude is the Big Boss that the American soldiers had to defeat... So they really have no way of grasping the horribleness of it all... Yes, the teachers should have known better, that's for sure, but this is just a cultural misunderstanding, not something meant to be offensive...

Which is fine until you try explaining its just a cultural misunderstanding when a tourist accidentally raises the sole of his foot to an overreacting Thai.

How would you 'accidentally' raise your foot?

In all the years I've been here, never seen this scenario.

Just a few weeks ago in Patong.. Tourists clamber in the back of a tuktuk and in the restricted space a farang puts his foot up on the other side, which a driver in the Rd outside took to be 'in his general direction' he then steamed around and started laying punches without any warning on the basis of this offense.

Perfect example of what I was saying. The very same thing happened to a friend of mine, although our tuk tuk pulled away just as the fist was coming in to connect with my friend's face and the agressor's face accidentaly connected with my accelerating elbow instead

[crazymoon]

Swastika is wrong ok but what about cheguevara t-shirt....shd be wrong too also comunist made shit in't?

[vincentc]

I can't really see the big deal. The fact that they are unaware of the holocaust means they are pretty much unaware of the political beliefs of the Nazis so this is no more than a simple fancy dress. I'm sure fancy dress suppliers in the west provide Nazi uniforms for those who want them. Also although the Nazi regime was clearly an evil regime would everybody be equally appalled if they had shown up as British Redcoats given the atrocities committed by British during their worldwide campaigns. How about the US cavalry? Was the massacre of native Americans and the establishment of concentration camps sorry Reservations any different. How about the Roman Legionares or NATO forces or Russians. Fancy dress would be restricted to fairy story characters because in reality nobody is a saint once they get power. So why not let the kids enjoy their innocent bit of fun and maybe discuss how to overcome the Burmese junta or the cruel regimes in Africa and worldwide, which preside today and still continue to oppress and murder innocent people.

"I can't really see the big deal."

I can't think of anything more dangerous than a population that is unaware of the ways that people like the Nazis come to power.

Elections, right?

[talk2sam]

Please I want to know the difference between being Anti-semitic and being a racist?

Edited September 27, 2011 by talk2sam

[blackout]

'Average Thai' yeah I'll take that bet..

"average ignorant", yeah i'll take that bet too

[Kananga]

Please I want to know the difference between the being Anti-semitic and being a racist?

Race and religion. Unless you start with the big nose crap.

[elliss]

whatever next ,

fun day on the bridge on the river kwai ,

for school kids to dress up as japanese soldiers .

i do not think there will be many interested in playing the part of the prisoners.

[bushman1666]

i'm sick of reading this, i'm a 1960 generation, now we have 2011.

get over it.

You sad ignorant fool. Many brave men gave their lives so an ignoramus like you has the right to utter such inane, unthinking tripe. Had it not been for their actions I doubt you'd have the freedom to chose to live in Thailand or anywhere else for that matter. Perhaps you should consider taking night classes in history.

[puipuitom]

This is typical a result of Thai narsistic attitude: ZERO knowledge and interest what happended outside ot Thailand. Many Thai's even have no idea aboiut the Pol Pot regime in Cambodia. What do you expect them to know/be interested about any other area of the world ?

Even a Thai export manager, attended already 16 years food exhibitions in Europe did not even spend one second in a supermarket selling his stuff.

They simply do not know, nor have any interest to know, how the nazi-forces after the battle over France got rid of African and Vietnamese soldiers they captured: as filth they were crushed under the wheels of their tanks.

Imagine: dressed farang children as Burmese soldiers burning down Ayutthia and shouting: "we are going to feed the crocodiles with Thai 2-leg meat" would be a friendly gesture compared what the nazi's did. Thailand would be too small.

You think there is ONE Thai interested to know what happended outside Thailand ? Forget it.

Edited September 27, 2011 by puipuitom

[cowslip]

whatever next ,

fun day on the bridge on the river kwai ,

for school kids to dress up as japanese soldiers .

i do not think there will be many interested in playing the part of the prisoners.

Perhaps if you go to the Bridge you might realise how close you are to seeing your idea turned to a reality

[blackout]

i am 100% agree with. you can say the same to many japanese in japan. but that doesn't make "all" japanese are the same. the same thing go to the thais.

This is typical a result of Thai narsistic attitude: ZERO knowledge and interest what happended outside ot Thailand.

if you do that in thailand, i am sure thai will be interesting to do more than just want to know.

Imagine: dressed as Burmese soldiers burning down Ayutthia and shouting: "we are going to feed the crocodiles with Thai meat" would be a friendly gesture compared what the nazi's did.

You think there is ONE Thai interested to know ? Forget it.

Edited September 27, 2011 by blackout