Thai Student Nazi Dress-Up Day Causes Outrage

[Nisa]

This is typical a result of Thai narsistic attitude: ZERO knowledge and interest what happended outside ot Thailand.

LOL, Thais are narsistic (narcissistic) because they don't have interest in what you have interest in? Or for that matter a war that had little effect on Thais compared to much of the rest of the world.

[cowslip]

This is typical a result of Thai narsistic attitude: ZERO knowledge and interest what happended outside ot Thailand.

They simply do not know, nor have any interest to know, how the nazi-forces after the battle over France got rid of African and Vietnamese soldiers they captured: as filth they were crushed under the wheels of their tanks.

Imagine: dressed as Burmese soldiers burning down Ayutthia and shouting: "we are going to feed the crocodiles with Thai meat" would be a friendly gesture compared what the nazi's did.

You think there is ONE Thai interested to know ? Forget it.

Except WW2 didn't happen OUTSIDE Thailand did it?

"Imagine: dressed as Burmese soldiers burning down Ayutthia and shouting: "we are going to feed the crocodiles with Thai meat" - now you are quoting a Thai account of Thai history about how ma ny years ago?

THe wonder of this is that educated people should learn to distinguish propaganda from historical theory.

[Arkady]

South Africa under apartheid had four racial classifications: white, coloured, Asian (meaning Indian Subcontinent people) and black. There is a large community of Malays, mainly in Cape Town, who came, not from Malaysia, but from Indonesia and the Philippines as bonded labour and they were classified as coloured, along with mixed race people. Similarly local Chinese descended from imported bonded labourers were also classified as coloured, despite the fact that many had become very wealthy.

Rubbish..... I went to school (all whites school) and was friends with a Chinese lad who was neither Taiwanese or Japanese or Korean and I can assure you the person concerned was "classified" as "honorary white" and his family had descended from imported bonded labourers and had become very wealthy in import and export.

Well it was certainly possible to be reclassified racially and the classifications, done by petty officials, were often arbitrary. I quote from an article on the BBC's website:

"The apartheid regime had a number of pseudo scientific tests for classifying people as belonging to one of four main groups: White, Black, Indian, Coloured (mixed race). One of these tests involved putting a comb through hair - if it got stuck, that meant the person being tested was identified as African.

Every year, people were reclassified racially. In 1984, for example:

518 Coloured people were defined as White

2 whites were called Chinese

1 white was reclassified Indian

1 white became Coloured

89 Coloured people became African".

I think they also eased up on the Chinese in the last years of apartheid but my brother-in-law's local Chinese friend definitely had to resort to subterfuge to enter white cafes and restaurants which were clearly not permitted under his racial classification in the late 60s. Perhaps a Thai, particularly a Thai Chinese with money, might have got away with being white on a visit in the 80s, but I am not sure how brown Malay-looking Thai Thais without money would have fared. Anyway Thailand effectively has this kind of colour bar in favour of ethnic Chinese and fair skinned Thais in operation today and comments about "negros" and "khaeks" are perfectly PC. So the apartheid system might have seemed eminently logical to them, if they thought they would be on the right side of it.

[cowslip]

What we learn from history is not so much what happened but how to stop that sort of thing happening again.

[bushman1666]

So what?

Remember, these were just kids with costumes and plastic machine guns right?

Just like western kids might dress like ninjas or samurais.

would it be different if they dressed as Japanese suicide pilots? or Napoleontic armymen? Or American bomber pilots?

Whose history matters most?

This nazi-stigma and the perpetuation of guild-feelings is not part of Thai history and very rightly so. That's why perhaps only the expat parents at school took offence.

The past is the past in Thailand (that's why their historians suck) and perhaps we should learn from that.

It's been 3 generations since the Nazis, isn't it time to get over it??

Three generations since the Nazis, two generations since the Chinese Cultural revolution one generation since Pol Pot, half a generation since the Balkans conflict and Rewander.

LEST WE FORGET.

[MaxYakov]

As an aside - do posters realise that the "Swastika" and the Thai greeting come from the same root?

"Sa-was -dee - khap"

check the Thai spelling

I'm glad that's finally settled. The obvious resemblance had cost me a lot of sleep lately.

[Kananga]

This is typical a result of Thai narsistic attitude: ZERO knowledge and interest what happended outside ot Thailand.

LOL, Thais are narsistic (narcissistic) because they don't have interest in what you have interest in? Or for that matter a war that had little effect on Thais compared to much of the rest of the world.

A war that had little effect on Thais?????? Apart from being completely wrong, you are in essence saying its ok to parade around portraying people responsible for the greatest atrocities of the 20th century as long as we were not directly involved. Education is supposed to teach, regardless of whether it is in the classroom or at the school carnival. What exactly were the Thai teachers attempting to teach in this particular exercise?

[WarpSpeed]

Clearly you run in the same educational circles..

you can just say whatever you like. anyone can do that just to support their own believe. that doesn't make it a fact....at all!

and thank for my education comment, i still happy that my education circles did not teach me to just imply whatever i see and know as an absolute correct reasons and argument. b/c that will just show how little one actually know.

Further making my point is that you missed the point that any WESTERNER you may have encountered (however many that may actually be) would not know the difference between Taiwan and Thailand... If you're running in those circles then that's the impression you'll get however I've had experience with a wide cross section of older and younger Thai's both educated and not so, which far out number the expats of Western countries here and I can say without equivocation they are very sheltered about the world outside of Thailand and most have told me that they never even studied ANY world history during their education..

You can keep arguing your point but by doing so you're actually reinforcing mine instead..

I find it also ironic that these inept "Westerners" you mention managed to purchase and book tickets to a country they could not even distinguish from another one? How'd they know they didn't intend to go to Taiwan?

Edited September 27, 2011 by WarpSpeed

[bushman1666]

This is typical a result of Thai narsistic attitude: ZERO knowledge and interest what happended outside ot Thailand.

LOL, Thais are narsistic (narcissistic) because they don't have interest in what you have interest in? Or for that matter a war that had little effect on Thais compared to much of the rest of the world.

A war that had little effect on Thais?????? Apart from being completely wrong, you are in essence saying its ok to parade around portraying people responsible for the greatest atrocities of the 20th century as long as we were not directly involved. Education is supposed to teach, regardless of whether it is in the classroom or at the school carnival. What exactly were the Thai teachers attempting to teach in this particular exercise?

Thai's have little or no knowledge of what happens outside of Thailand and to be blunt no interest. I have asked many Thia's what they know about Cambodia and I have never met one who has even heard of Pol Pot. As far as I can see world history is not taught in state schools here.

[andrewdrummond]

So what?

Remember, these were just kids with costumes and plastic machine guns right?

Just like western kids might dress like ninjas or samurais.

would it be different if they dressed as Japanese suicide pilots? or Napoleontic armymen? Or American bomber pilots?

Whose history matters most?

This nazi-stigma and the perpetuation of guild-feelings is not part of Thai history and very rightly so. That's why perhaps only the expat parents at school took offence.

The past is the past in Thailand (that's why their historians suck) and perhaps we should learn from that.

It's been 3 generations since the Nazis, isn't it time to get over it??

No.

[sanget]

I can remember seeing a Swastika badge on the shirt of a BTS station cashier/clerk a few months ago. You can see them on bags , T-shirts, Even on the painted company buses that are everywhere, Clearly WW2 was something missing from the ciriculum in Thailand

The swastika is a religious symbols, don't mix it up with the nazi swastika. See the link in my earlier post.

Yes , And the Thai students were wearing Third Reich Nazi uniforms and displaying the Flags, And I have seen the swastika displayed in Thailand with the "Red Background" which was the flag color of Nazi Germany and how many people know about any relegious significance of a "Swastika"?

In Europe few peope will now the relgigious significance of the swastika, in Asia I suspect a lot of people will know the religious meaning of the swastika.

My point was that not everyone you see with a swastika is wearing the nazi symbol. Of course sometimes they clearly are, as with nazi motor helmets or with these students in their uniforms, nazi flag etc. But not everytime you see a swastika you see a nazi symbol.

I rarely reply to these postings, but the last statement is completely inaccurate. The swastika in nazi Germany was in one direction and the religious hooked cross is in the other direction. The two symbols can be confused but the lack of sensitivity towards the victims of the nazi regime, should never be forgoten or forgiven. I cannot believe the amount of insensitivity displayed by the students and in turn their tachers.

[Nisa]

This is typical a result of Thai narsistic attitude: ZERO knowledge and interest what happended outside ot Thailand.

LOL, Thais are narsistic (narcissistic) because they don't have interest in what you have interest in? Or for that matter a war that had little effect on Thais compared to much of the rest of the world.

A war that had little effect on Thais?????? Apart from being completely wrong, you are in essence saying its ok to parade around portraying people responsible for the greatest atrocities of the 20th century as long as we were not directly involved. Education is supposed to teach, regardless of whether it is in the classroom or at the school carnival. What exactly were the Thai teachers attempting to teach in this particular exercise?

For someone spouting off a lot about teaching and education, you appear to have a problem with reading, comprehension and history.

By the way, Thailand was not in the war and did its best to play on both sides (Japan vs. Allies) and gained rewards from both the US and Japan due to the war.

Edited September 27, 2011 by Nisa

[ROMANOBA]

This is not a question of ignorance.Ask a farmer in Congo who was Hitler and what ' nazist' means and it will know at least 2 or 3 basic facts about that.I always noticed the total DISCONNECTION of thai with everything which is not thai.This goes beyond ignorance, it's being totally absentminded.It's like the image of Che Guevara on the backside of thai trucks or on thai T-Shirts.They just do not even know who is Che Guevara.Here everything is fashion, history simply does not exist.Children do not live in history, which means in consciousness and in time, but in a kind of ' absolute present' where the meaning of past has no place.

I see that every day. Swastikas on their t-shirts, Third Reich helmets and even swastikas tattooed on their arms or hands. When I ask them whether they know what it represents, they answer "fashion!"

They are not aware, not the children nor the parents. How can they be made aware? Very difficult IMO. It does need to be included in their curriculums, at school, but so do many other things.

[sanget]

It's been 3 generations since the Nazis, isn't it time to get over it??

NEVER!!!!! If we do not remember history, then it is bound to repeat itself in the future

[WarpSpeed]

i'm sick of reading this, i'm a 1960 generation, now we have 2011.

get over it.

You sad ignorant fool. Many brave men gave their lives so an ignoramus like you has the right to utter such inane, unthinking tripe. Had it not been for their actions I doubt you'd have the freedom to chose to live in Thailand or anywhere else for that matter. Perhaps you should consider taking night classes in history.

Yep I'm 60's generation albeit on the tail end and I assure you I do not share his view point.

Edited September 27, 2011 by WarpSpeed

[kerryk]

"the pupils of Sacred Heart Catholic School " - yet again the Catholic church fails to educate and fails it's students!!!!

It is a sad thing that anyone who has visited Kanchanaburi and spoken to the loal traders that they really have no clue as to what happened there and elsewhere in Thailand during WW2.

Your point about Kanchanaburi is fair enough. But ask your self this question. How many tourists visit the 'Bridge' already knowing of the thousands of Allied Prisoners who were murdered building the Jap-Burma railway.

Now how many of those realize that in excess of 100,000 forced labourers from Thailand and Burma also perished???

Often Westerners get too much of their history from movies and need reminding that the river over which the 'bridge' runs was not named after a water buffalo

Japanese hired and paid Thai labourers they were not forced.

[Kananga]

This is typical a result of Thai narsistic attitude: ZERO knowledge and interest what happended outside ot Thailand.

LOL, Thais are narsistic (narcissistic) because they don't have interest in what you have interest in? Or for that matter a war that had little effect on Thais compared to much of the rest of the world.

A war that had little effect on Thais?????? Apart from being completely wrong, you are in essence saying its ok to parade around portraying people responsible for the greatest atrocities of the 20th century as long as we were not directly involved. Education is supposed to teach, regardless of whether it is in the classroom or at the school carnival. What exactly were the Thai teachers attempting to teach in this particular exercise?

For someone spouting off a lot about teaching and education, you appear to have a problem with reading, comprehension and history.

By the way, Thailand was not in the war and did its best to play on both sides (Japan vs. Allies) and gained rewards from both the US and Japan due to the war.

So the Japanese were not really there?

I do indeed have problems with reading, comprehension and history, but not as much as I have problems with morons with even less of a grasp on reality than I do.

[WarpSpeed]

So what?

Remember, these were just kids with costumes and plastic machine guns right?

Just like western kids might dress like ninjas or samurais.

would it be different if they dressed as Japanese suicide pilots? or Napoleontic armymen? Or American bomber pilots?

Whose history matters most?

This nazi-stigma and the perpetuation of guild-feelings is not part of Thai history and very rightly so. That's why perhaps only the expat parents at school took offence.

The past is the past in Thailand (that's why their historians suck) and perhaps we should learn from that.

It's been 3 generations since the Nazis, isn't it time to get over it??

No.

Kinda surprised you didn't pick this one up for your Blog? It was being discussed here before it made mainstream headlines..

[Nisa]

Why not take offense to the Cross? Millions were killed during the Christian crusades and the Nazi's also used the cross as their symbol.

[Jingthing]

I don't see any equivalency at all between Che Guevara fashion items and a Nazi Third Reich glorification parade. Che is an international icon often symbolizing idealistic youth rebellion, and understandably so. He's a textured, complicated, romantic figure, and both good and bad things can be attributed to him.

Go to Argentina today and you will find many people openly admiring their native son Che.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Che_Guevara

A major figure of the Cuban Revolution, his stylized visage has become a ubiquitous countercultural symbol of rebellion and global insignia within popular culture

Edited September 27, 2011 by Jingthing

[Chopperboy]

Thai people have no idea what the holocaust is, and why should they care anyway, it's got nothing to do with them or their history.

WW2 is a bit of history the Thais would rather forget.

Facilitating Japan trash Burma has never been see as a good move. Neither was bombing Kengtung and taking land in the Shan state.

Thats why its missing from their school history, so don't expect these kids to know anything about the Fascists!

Edited September 27, 2011 by Chopperboy

[MaxYakov]

So what?

Remember, these were just kids with costumes and plastic machine guns right?

Just like western kids might dress like ninjas or samurais.

would it be different if they dressed as Japanese suicide pilots? or Napoleontic armymen? Or American bomber pilots?

Whose history matters most?

This nazi-stigma and the perpetuation of guild-feelings is not part of Thai history and very rightly so. That's why perhaps only the expat parents at school took offence.

The past is the past in Thailand (that's why their historians suck) and perhaps we should learn from that.

It's been 3 generations since the Nazis, isn't it time to get over it??

So ... we can learn from Thailand ... to forget the past?

Can we volunteer you to be a martyr when the next generation of Nazis come knocking?

If you can't wait for the opportunity, I can suggest a few countries for you visit to experience instant tyranny.

[TechnikaIII]

Let the students, have their fun. It was a great art happening.

I wish I could have filmed it. I would show it on a huge wall in the Tate Modern, London. Then have overlapping projection of what the Israelis have been up to all that time, with scenes from The Great Land Grab. .. maybe with clips from The Killing Fields, and live footage of Bangkok 2010. Let's not miss anything.

But a major component would be a screening of

If the out come of the school students event is a revised history curriculum, that could only be a good thing. However, official change is unlikely. The students have done it themselves. Full marks to them.

[Kananga]

Why not take offense to the Cross? Millions were killed during the Christian crusades and the Nazi's also used the cross as their symbol.

I do. Religion and its various blends of bullshit is responsible for more suffering in the world than even the Nazis.

Know Religion

No Peace

No Religion

Know Peace

[blackout]

Further making my point is that you missed the point that any WESTERNER you may have encountered (however many that may actually be) would not know the difference between Taiwan and Thailand... If you're running in those circles then that's the impression you'll get however I've had experience with a wide cross section of older and younger Thai's both educated and not so, which far out number the expats of Western countries here and I can say without equivocation they are very sheltered about the world outside of Thailand and most have told me that never even studied ANY world history during their education..

You can keep arguing your point but by doing so you're actually reinforcing mine instead..

you also missed the point that a few thai you may have encountered do not know history of WWII in the west, it doesn't mean "all" thais has no idea on the issue. If you're running in those circles then that's the impression you'll get . see?

my argument will only reinforcing the bad/weak part of your never support it.

and i am not going to justify or even comparing your experience with what you think it is already wide cross section of thais to my experience with foreigners i meet in southeast asia, america and japan. b/c you know what you know, but again what you know doesn't say that it is going to be the absolute right info for all. i was in thailand for almost 2 decades, and yes i know that they have world history in school classes. i also know that their side of thai history is way way over saturated.

but hey ,they also tell student how flipflop they were during WWII. if you are in thailand long enough you might know how teacher and students laugh at their own history during WWII. that was exactly Thais that i know. they never take anything serious, as so the nazi kids, i guess!

i do partly blame it on the school and education, but for sure i know not all of them act the way the kids did. not even majority of them do.

Edited September 27, 2011 by blackout

[webfact]

Asif Ahmad to Sacred Heart School Chiang Mai re Nazi parade

Ambassador to Thailand & Laos I British Embassy 14 Wireless Road Bangkok 10330

as pdf document

Asif Ahmad to Sacred Heart School Chiang Mai re Nazi parade (2).pdf

[TechnikaIII]

Actually, I wonder how many of them even know of Charlie Chaplin.

[Somtamnication]

Loss for words. I do remember the other schools doing this in mid 2000s.

My students have zero knowledge of the world outside of Thailand. Not new news here.

[Nisa]

LOL, Thais are narsistic (narcissistic) because they don't have interest in what you have interest in? Or for that matter a war that had little effect on Thais compared to much of the rest of the world.

A war that had little effect on Thais?????? Apart from being completely wrong, you are in essence saying its ok to parade around portraying people responsible for the greatest atrocities of the 20th century as long as we were not directly involved. Education is supposed to teach, regardless of whether it is in the classroom or at the school carnival. What exactly were the Thai teachers attempting to teach in this particular exercise?

For someone spouting off a lot about teaching and education, you appear to have a problem with reading, comprehension and history.

By the way, Thailand was not in the war and did its best to play on both sides (Japan vs. Allies) and gained rewards from both the US and Japan due to the war.

So the Japanese were not really there?

I do indeed have problems with reading, comprehension and history, but not as much as I have problems with morons with even less of a grasp on reality than I do.

Allowing the Japanese here (and being rewarded for it) is a lot different than being occupied or being in the war or what many other countries went through. After the war Thailand was also rewarded by the US.

Despite your admitted lacking in reading comprehension, you should realize what I said was 100% true in it was a "war that had little effect on Thais compared to much of the rest of the world"

Why don't you tell us how many Thais were killed during combat in the war.

[midas]

Just don't mention the war

Highly facile post - as you are aware almost everyone on this thread will know this episode so what is the point of putting here?>

When this program was released during the 1970s I don't remember hearing a single criticism regarding the content by anyone

? I am surprised that over 30 years later in Southeast Asia people are still so offended by this incident?

Since then we've had equally horrific atrocities in the Kosovo War and just a couple of weeks ago it was discovered Robert Mugabe has been killing his own citizens to stop them from digging in a valuable new diamond deposit which the ordinary people happen to have discovered.

Why no outrage about this?

Edited September 27, 2011 by midas