Occupy As A Means To Financial Reform

[Samuian]

"Asamblea" (Assembly) after the spanish named movement being active in Berlin/Germany, love it!

and within their very own rows sticking to strict democratic rules, one for all, all for one, as they not using loud speaker's, the crowd repeats what a speaker says... uniting them all in a strange new way...

and see the magic the german chancellor m. merkel has agreed with other EU chiefs to cut greece's crushing load, magically a calculating mistake frees some "lost 55.5 Billion" from a german bank (HREH) which got caught up in the real estate bubble, money that had initially disappeared, - ... it's all just magic, isn't it, an accounting mistake on a grande scale, how many are there, one may wonder and how can 55.5 billion just disappear into thin air, just then to re-appear?

amazing stuff what they call economy these days, people buy giant amount of goods without actually need to pay for them, transport them, store them, or worry about selling them, or loss because of storage problems, at the time they are bought most of these goods not even exist! So does one may wonder if the money these goods are bought with ever existed - or may one not be so inquisitive, will it maybe soon be unlawful to ask such questions?

I am not worried, but somethings sometimes seem a bit worrying, at least some appear to be a bit murky sort of thing. not to say dubios!

yeah' money for nothing and the chicks for free.... but as this is only possible for a very few and many, many, many have to support this unquestioned - I vote against it as it is immoral, unethical and sheer piracy!

Edited October 29, 2011 by Samuian

[farang000999]

JT is totally clueless. Not worth ur time Flying, imho.

[flying]

I'm not sure I get where you're coming from. Actually, I find it rather bizarre. If the OWS majority are for things like universal single payer health care, do you seriously think they are closer to that with the republican than the democratic party? I agree both are corporate bitches, but without a third party, and stuck with these parties, which party do you think has a greater chance of responding to the people in the streets? Come on now, be honest.

You can stop anytime......

Or you can continue to bait & detour

Yes I am sure through your MSNBC prism you believe it is all about health care

Or any other small diversion that can make it left or right

It is well beyond that...I am being 100% honest

But you can continue to think what you like.

None are stuck with any party except those who are satisfied with more of the same.

Here in the US of A we are thinking a bit further outside the box than the media lets on to

folks not living here. So those who rely on videos or media prisms will get what they searched & found to feed you.

Edited October 29, 2011 by flying

[Jingthing]

Spit it out, flying. What are you on about? It seems to me you are hinting about some kind of violent revolution and a total overthrow of the current political/economic structure. That isn't going to happen.

[Jingthing]

JT is totally clueless. Not worth ur time Flying, imho.

Yeah, you true insider believers know it all, but somehow, mysteriously you are unwilling to spill the beans about what you really are on about.

[farang000999]

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/guest-post-80-years-later-same-culprits-same-rage

start here.

[midas]

Spit it out, flying. What are you on about? It seems to me you are hinting about some kind of violent revolution and a total overthrow of the current political/economic structure. That isn't going to happen.

how from your condo situated in Pattaya Thailand are you able to predict this stunning revelation

even contradicting those who are actually on the ground in USA?

[Jingthing]

Excuse me, but if the OWS was openly advocating violent revolution and acting on that, it would be over already. Also it wouldn't have MAJORITY support of the American people; it would have less than ONE percent support. When I hear Michael Moore and similar talk about the movement, that's how I see it too, and I sincerely believe that's how the majority of American supporters see it as well. The tin foil hat brigade is overrepresented on this forum. OWS is now a MAINSTREAM movement. Get real.

Edited October 29, 2011 by Jingthing

[Jingthing]

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/guest-post-80-years-later-same-culprits-same-rage

start here.

I did. It's a mixed bag there.

However, it says --

The federal reserve is the only culprit. (That's tin foil hat time.)

The 99 percent are armed and dangerous. Uh oh, violent revolution.

FDR's Keynsian social programs and infrastructure work programs to save the lives of suffering people were bad.

That's Tea party not OWS!

Edited October 29, 2011 by Jingthing

[serenitynow]

I swear Jingthing. It's as if you show up half way through a parade then want to tell the people who created it what it's all about. maybe you can catch the next wave a little earlier.

[Jingthing]

I swear Jingthing. It's as if you show up half way through a parade then want to tell the people who created it what it's all about. maybe you can catch the next wave a little earlier.

Sorry you feel left out but this movement is not going to be dominated by right wing, gun toting, tin foil hatters. The MAINSTREAM majority on board now could care less who thinks they started it. Get used to it.

What's the problem? You still have Glenn Beck!?!

Edited October 29, 2011 by Jingthing

[serenitynow]

I swear Jingthing. It's as if you show up half way through a parade then want to tell the people who created it what it's all about. maybe you can catch the next wave a little earlier.

Sorry you feel left out but this movement is not going to be dominated by right wing, gun toting, tin foil hatters. The MAINSTREAM majority on board now could care less who thinks they started it. Get used to it.

What's the problem? You still have Glenn Beck!?!

A couple of points. 1) If it's true that this is a mainstream movement then I am delighted. The jury is still out on that. 2) Healthcare has no bearing on this debate and for the record, I am in favor of universal healthcare. I believe the Obama healthcare policy will be thrown as it is a horrible remedy that favors special interests and creates spiralling costs. I think every single state will balk at it. I also believe that no new policy healthcare will be forthcoming for many years. There simply isn't the funding available. It's been squandered already. 3) I am not a gun toter and think many (not all) of those that are, don't understand the true meaning of the 2nd Amendment. I haven't watched tv since the turn of the millenium and I could not pick Glenn beck out of a police lineup. I could pick Keith Olberman out though as I verymuch enjoyed him when he was on ESPN's Sportscenter.

Edited October 29, 2011 by serenitynow

[Jingthing]

You're wrong about health care access not being a part of the OWS movement.

Yes, MAINSTREAM support for the organic OWS movement. Note that OWS favors INCREASED government REGULATION of the financial industry, the nihilistic Fox News astroturf minority supported tea party/republican party favors crushing even the existing crappy regulation!

Yes, do pick a side.

Poll: New Yorkers Support OWS

Anti-Wall Street protests have won broad support among New York City voters, who would overwhelmingly favor tougher regulations on the financial industry, new poll results showed on Monday. Sixty-seven percent of those who responded to a Quinnipiac University survey said they agreed with the Occupy Wall Street protesters, who are upset that banks were allowed to earn huge profits after being bailed out during the recession, while average Americans remained under financial strain.

http://www.drudge.com/news/149412/poll-new-yorkers-support-ows Edited October 29, 2011 by Jingthing

[serenitynow]

You're wrong about health care access not being a part of the OWS movement.

In that case it is doomed in its present form and will hopefully morph or meld into something that can return government that is both less fiscally corrupt and more responsive to the citizenry. All of them.

[Jingthing]

You're wrong about health care access not being a part of the OWS movement.

In that case it is doomed in its present form and will hopefully morph or meld into something that can return government that is both less fiscally corrupt and more responsive to the citizenry. All of them.

What are you saying? You do understand the majority of Americans support single payer, correct? The majority want health care access for all citizens because Americans are a decent people, but our corporate/financial system is not decent. The money is there; it's going to profits now.

Edited October 29, 2011 by Jingthing

[serenitynow]

You're wrong about health care access not being a part of the OWS movement.

In that case it is doomed in its present form and will hopefully morph or meld into something that can return government that is both less fiscally corrupt and more responsive to the citizenry. All of them.

What are you saying? You do understand the majority of Americans support single payer, correct? The majority want health care access for all citizens because Americans are a decent people, but our corporate/financial system is not decent. The money is there; it's going to profits now.

The only way you're going to pull it off is to put all the corporate healthcre providers out of business. There is no one in either political party that is going to do that. Plus you're going to have to borrow a lot more money for the bigger deficits that will ensue. It just is not going to happen. The Clinton era was when they had the best shot and they bungled it badly.

[Jingthing]

The only way you're going to pull it off is to put all the corporate healthcre providers out of business. .

OWS is pro people, anti corporation. Got it now?

It's do health care properly like in civilized countries like Canada and France, or let millions of Americans die before their time. Which do you think the people really want? Isn't that what's this supposed to be about? Why give up to begin with? That's what Obama did and that's why he has this massive movement to the LEFT of him.

No I am not saying the health care access is the top issue. Severe economic suffering of the masses is the top issue and of course health care is part of it.

Edited October 29, 2011 by Jingthing

[serenitynow]

The only way you're going to pull it off is to put all the corporate healthcre providers out of business. .

OWS is pro people, anti corporation. Got it now?

It's do health care properly like in civilized countries like Canada and France, or let millions of Americans die before their time. Which do you think the people really want? Isn't that what's this supposed to be about? Why give up to begin with? That's what Obama did and that's why he has this massive movement to the LEFT of him.

No I am not saying the health care access is the top issue. Severe economic suffering of the masses is the top issue and of course health care is part of it.

I understand it is anti-corporate. You're missing the point. It ain't going to happen. That's the point. I wish circumstances were different and it could, but that just isn't so. Spin that any way you like.

[Jingthing]

More about why the OWS movement has struck a BIG nerve ... a left wing nerve.

If Americans were to realize they’ve been the victims of Republican-style redistribution — stealing from the poor to give to the rich — the whole political atmosphere might change. I believe that’s one reason why the Occupy Wall Street protests have struck such a nerve. The far-right and its media mouthpieces have worked themselves into a frenzy trying to disregard, dismiss or discredit the demonstrations. Thus far, fortunately, all this effort has been to no avail.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/the-study-that-shows-why-occupy-wall-street-struck-a-nerve/2011/10/27/gIQA3bsMNM_story.html

[Jingthing]

I understand it is anti-corporate. You're missing the point. It ain't going to happen. That's the point. I wish circumstances were different and it could, but that just isn't so. Spin that any way you like.

Depends on how big OWS gets, which is a direct result of massive economic pain, as to what will happen. This pain will last for many years. People over 50 now who are unemployed will probably never work again, that's the baby boomer generation. This is just the beginning. Nationalized health care is the one big social program that FDR wanted but didn't get in the last depression. Economically, the current pain is very similar already to another great depression. It's only logical that a people's rebellion against corporate greed would arise during these kinds of times. Yes, it is a choice, go left or go even further right. You can't choose BOTH. So what will it be? Effete British right wing tea or strong black American COFFEE? (Once you go black ... etc.).

Edited October 29, 2011 by Jingthing

[flying]

Spit it out, flying. What are you on about? It seems to me you are hinting about some kind of violent revolution and a total overthrow of the current political/economic structure. That isn't going to happen.

Your still trying to detour.

I have not hinted about anything

I have been plain & clear about how you are barking up the wrong tree.

You are trying to deflect the disgust,anger,loss of hope,rights & freedoms of the people to some party line cheering.

It is the way of the media. It is the way they try to re-gather the sheep into two herds.

You should put down the pom-poms & pick up a book. Look back at our beautiful Constitution & see

what it says. See what those who framed it wrote & why. See why they were vigilant & foresaw exactly what we

have going on today.

Then branch into the creation of fiat currency, monetary & foreign policies that again go against our Constitution.

Read the history behind those & get a good overview of how we have again arrived at just what our

Constitution was designed to protect us from.

Revolution can be violent but I for one hope not for violent revolution.

If folks like yourself would educate yourself first you would not jump to such conclusions.

Conclusions fed to you by the media....you would not be so easily led to believe it is a simple little health care versus corporation fight.

Stop being led/herded....Think for yourself....Dont be so anxious to neatly label & package a problem that is bigger than the quart sized intellect of those that try to label it as such.

Edited October 29, 2011 by flying

[Jingthing]

You should put down the pom-poms & pick up a book.

There we go again. The cryptic suggestions. The mystery. I read LOTS of books!

WHAT book are you talking about -- name the book please. It's not polite to play games and act intellectually superior if you aren't willing to spill the beans.

Look there are the clues again, obsession about fiat currency is code word for favoring going back to the GOLD standard, which is the cornerstone of the far right wing anti-Keysnian economic ideology of guess who? RON PAUL is who. Again, it's totally delusional to think the mainstream OWS crowd is going to favor such extremely radical anti-Kesysnian economic solutions. In fact, the total opposite! Sorry, yes people do have to pick sides if they hope to accomplish something.

I never said this OWS was as small as only health care, or related to Obama or the democratic party. However, there is no doubt that any rational book reading or media watching person would come to the conclusion that the goals of OWS are closer to the typical platforms of the democratic party than the now radical right wing republican party. No, neither party has delivered, and in any case, the government is very dysfunctional anyway, which is making the problems worse.

How are the people supposed to MAKE the government be more functional? Do you have a better idea than political pressure? Lobbying doesn't work for the people; that's the game of the corporations and the people always lose. So yes, it is to the streets time, no doubt.

Edited October 29, 2011 by Jingthing

[flying]

There it goes again. The cryptic suggestions. The mystery. I read LOTS of books!

WHAT book are you talking about -- name the book please.

Look there are the clues again, obsession about fiat currency is code word for favoring going back to the GOLD standard, which is the cornerstone of the far right wing anti-Keysnian economic ideology of guess who? RON PAUL is who. Again, it's totally delusional to think the mainstream OWS crowd is going to favor such anti-Kesysnian economic solution. In fact, the total opposite! Sorry, yes people do have to pick sides if they hope to accomplish something.

Yes there it goes again....Read every one of your posts....They are all the same as this one.

Same detours...None mentioned gold standard except you but, if you ask me I am not for it. I am for free gold.

Gold untethered to seek its own price. Not defaulted on as FDR did against we the people & later Nixon did against the world/International debts.

You are as always lost in spoon fed media prism views.

Good luck with that....I have given what I will to you already.

Read back & try to comprehend it & it was after all just a start.

While the birds in the trees are fed daily the worm is not dropped in their nest.

You need to get out of yours & find yours. Or you can continue to be happily

media fed what your being fed now. Just don't expect it to be a healthy diet conducive to change or understanding the whole picture.

Before you can begin to cheer change you need to understand how & why we arrived at this point.

I did not want to agree with those that said I am wasting my time with you...at first

But I can see this is probably a dead end.

Good Luck to you.

[Jingthing]

So, what book?

I'm not a bird.

Also keep in mind, people are going to the streets because they are fed up that the game is totally stacked against ordinary people towards the so called one percent. Most of these people on the street are not intellectuals and they don't need to be intellectuals. They know something is horribly wrong and unfair based on their own life experiences, and they are working for answers. Because the normal political channels have NO hope of working. The OWS movement of course is going to gel around certain ideologies and opposed to others. There is little doubt in my mind that the OWS is getting very comfortable with the economic theories of Joseph Stiglitz and Paul Krugman. Both Keynesian.

Economic inequality? Are far right wing politics the answer? You can bet the foreclosed house the OWS movement is saying NO.

A new - new deal. A perfect fit for these times.

The Conscience of a Liberal is a book written by economist Paul Krugman. It was 24th on the New York Times Best Seller list in November 2007.[2] The title was used originally in Senator Paul Wellstone's book of the same name in 2001. Wellstone's title was a response to Barry Goldwater's 1960 book The Conscience of a Conservative.

In the book, Paul Krugman studies the past 80 years of American history in the context of economic inequality. A central theme is the reemergence of both economic and political inequality since the 1970s. Krugman analyzes the causes behind these events and proposes a "new New Deal" for America.[1]

Edited October 29, 2011 by Jingthing

[flying]

So, what book?

Also keep in mind, people are going to the streets because they are fed up that the game is totally stacked against ordinary people towards the so called one percent. Most of these people on the street are not intellectuals and they don't need to be intellectuals. They know something is horribly wrong and unfair based on their own life experiences, and they are working for answers.

I wonder if you even read my replies?

I have already suggested two good book to start with.

Try those then go from there. Try the Constitution while your at it.

But of course you will not....Because you have preconceived notions.

Yes it is good that folks are in the streets rather than on the sofa watching dancing with the stars or what ever they watch these days.

But I would wager most in the streets do not know how or why they got there nor do they know how or why this crisis came upon us.

It is my hope that they are at least starting to now ask & research & not just grasp at the first convenient straw.

It is easy & convenient to grasp at the 1% & claim it is all their fault.

But hopefully they will look deeper & see how things came to be. See who allowed it....of course We The People are as much to blame.

We need to rethink what the role of government should be & fast!

But still it goes back a long ways. & that is where you need to start.

As I said I mentioned some great starter books yet I feel you will shrug it off due to your preconceived notions, bias both political party wise & racially.

So it is up to you then to find a book to start with.

But how will you do that with your preconceived bias?

Work like you say the folks in the street are working for answers.

We are all trying to learn & it is a evolution more than a revolution.

But is there time?

Edited October 29, 2011 by flying

[Jingthing]

I did a search on books mentioned and found references to Ron Paul and Peter Schiff books!

Pro gold standard, pro Austrian school, anti-Keysnian, end the fed, right wing.

You present these as some kind of "truth" when they are actually only subjective political ideologies.

Far radical right wing tea party ideals. Nothing like the left wing consensus gelling among the OWS movement.

Sorry I am sure it is very clear to OBJECTIVE readers that you do indeed have a concrete "side", regardless of denials.

Edited October 30, 2011 by Jingthing

[flying]

I did a search on books mentioned and found references to Ron Paul and Peter Schiff books!

Pro gold standard, pro Austrian school, anti-Keysnian, end the fed, right wing.

You present these as some kind of "truth" when they are actually only subjective political ideologies.

Far radical right wing tea party ideals. Nothing like the left wing consensus gelling among the OWS movement.

Sorry I am sure it is very clear to OBJECTIVE readers that you do indeed have a concrete "side", regardless of denials.

I said easy starter book...

Have you ever read any of those mentioned?

Did not think so because if you had you would not have made a fool of yourself by saying what you just did.

Instead you would have known it has chapters such as these...

The False Choices of American Politics

The Foreign Policy of the Founding Fathers

The Constitution

Civil Liberties & personal Freedoms

Yet as I said you have your preconceived notions & bias in place.

Too bad for you....

Perhaps you would do better with other books like Murray Rothbards very short book

"What Has The Government Done to Our Money"

It is too bad but at this point I have to agree with farang000999 you are not worth the time.

You ask & when given you always assume you know what your given...yet you remain clueless

Byeeeeee

[farang000999]

Paul Krugman is the laughing stock of the world. The guy who thinks it would be great if America was hit with ten hurricanes and everyone was made homeless! Think of all the construction jobs! Jesus Christ.

[Jingthing]

Too bad for you....

Perhaps you would do better with other books like Murray Rothbards very short book

"What Has The Government Done to Our Money"

It is too bad but at this point I have to agree with farang000999 you are not worth the time.

You ask & when given you always assume you know what your given...yet you remain clueless

Byeeeeee

It is true. There is no chance I am going to be converted to the right wing Austrian school of economics you are obviously promoting.

Edited October 30, 2011 by Jingthing

[flying]

It is true. There is no chance I am going to be converted to the right wing Austrian school of economics you are obviously promoting.