Cops... The Difference?

[furyrider]

could be the genes daddy gave me? but in my defence i thought it was worth a shot. cheers!

Maybe try getting a dress from your mom. They may not bother you at all then.

[manarak]

or my noisy exhaust

for that alone OP should have been shot on the spot by Thailand's finest.

[Timthai]

To the OP, there are spots like just outside the Hway Kwang police station and just about any underpass/overpass where you are most likely to get stopped between 10:00-12:00am and 2:00-4:00pm... Unless it's raining.

They routinely set up at the end of the under/overpasses and certain other spots (several on Suk etc) to catch mostly motorcycles coming off the overpass.

Outside these hours, they are all on traffic control or having lunch, or they won't go out in the rain. Between these hours in Bangkok, just stick to the left in obvious places, avoid the under/overpasses, wear your helmet, and don't look them in the eye... You then have a 50/50 chance of not being stopped.

Cheers.

[katabeachbum]

Having spent several years in law enforcement in the states in a previous life I am curious as to the differences in Thai law and U.S. law thus over the years I have done a fair bit of reading on Thai law, as well has had numerous discussions with police and lawyers here. (www.thailawforum.com is an excellent resource) I also spent 2 days at a Highway Police Volunteer Seminar which was also informative, at least the parts I understood or had translated.

To answer the OP's question, attempting to identify what cop to avoid and which to not worry about is futile. Any sworn Royal Thai police officer in any division or branch (traffic, patrol, crime suppression etc.) or any department (Highway Police, Marine Police, Immigration Police, Tourist Police etc) can stop you when they see a violation. The only divisions or departments who are mandated to enforce traffic laws are traffic police branch of the Royal Thai Police and the separate Highway Police division, but that doesn't exclude other officers from stopping you if they want to. The Thai and on occasion foreign volunteers you see at the checkpoints are working under direct supervision and thus have police powers same as a regular BIB. To make it more confusing there are also OrBorTor and Tombon (district or municipal) police which can look very much like Royal Thai police, but are not sworn officers. Some may even carry a gun but they are the equivalent to a security guard, but work closely with the RTP and can also be helping at checkpoints.

Leaving corruption out of the equation for a moment (silly, I know), what I have not yet been able to confirm beyond a doubt is whether or not a sworn Thai police officer has the right to randomly stop you without cause (no infraction seen by the officer) and conduct a search of any kind, even if it's just to confirm you are licensed or not. This is evidenced by the scores of often helmetless and presumably unlicensed people who choose to stop short of a police check point to wait it out, sometimes by less then 50m, in plain view of the police yet go unmolested. Now, if you choose to go through the checkpoint, then you are in essence giving consent to be stopped and searched. But I believe strongly that if you are wearing your helmet (without a tinted visor) and have a license plate and tax disk visible and have no other obvious infractions, you are free to make a legal u-turn, or stop short of the checkpoint and wait it out as is so common the practice, but I have yet to find a source to confirm this. The cops here rely on people being stupid, and most people are when it comes to law.

On the topic of running the checkpoints, it's not standard procedure to shoot at checkpoint runners, but it has happened. There are even fleeing felon laws still on the books in the states, but over the years most courts have concluded there needs to be evidence the fleeing felon is extremely likely to immediately threaten another life. More often the cops in Thailand use a less lethal method to stop or at least discourage runners. The tossing of a traffic cone in the bikes path has been reported as a favorite. Getting a smack on the helmet with a ticket book is another. (Tony can insert his video here) But usually they won't bother with you, as there are plenty of easier fish in the sea. Police in Thailand don't generally get into high speed pursuits, but rather mobilize via radio if they are after someone.

The case of the US cop Tony showed above, the cop was sent to prison for that. Completely unprovoked. The cop was an idiot and should not have been carrying a gun, same as the more recent case of the BART cop Johannes Mehserle who shot a detained man in the back as he lay on the ground. Stupid shit happens when stupid people get all spun and have a gun in their hand.

On the topic of motorcycles keeping left, it is largely a myth. The statute states that ALL vehicles need to keep left unless passing or if the left lane is less than a certain width, or is impassable. There is no law (that I can find) stating motorcycles have to keep to the left side of an individual lane, but as we all know if you don't, the car or truck behind you will get as close as possible to your rear wheel until you do.

.

excellent post

two corrections

1. Tourist Police and its Volunteers can not stop vehicles. Government is presently considering moving Tourist Police from Royal Thai Police, just like the firemen where a few years ago

2. On drug- and firearms check points, officers usually are ordered to open fire on runners. I have still not seen a court case following such use of firearms

[VocalNeal]

In Bangkok there are city employees that look like police. They have green patches on the uniform. I was told they are building inspectors but they still stop guys here for riding on the sidewalk.

[wana]

yesterday i was the third bike to take a short cut and there were 10 - 15 bikes behind me that all took the same shortcut

the police were waiting around the corner and grabbed the first two drivers , everyone else just swerved around them and there was too much confusion for 2 cops to stop 20 bikes at the same time

thankfully nobody got shot though

[VocalNeal]

One of my favourites is adjacent to Wong Wian Yai BTS station. A sign says no motorbikes so mostly they all filter left, except the few unfortunate souls. The bulk of the bikes continue about 150-200 metres and filter back out onto the main road and across the flyover, as at that point there is no sign, and the police are back at the previous check point.

If effect the section where bikes are not allowed is 150-200 m and seems to be designed to ensnare the unfortunate few.

[jerems]

In Udon, I've rode through many police checks on my ER-6N at least 3 times without plates(were waiting for the dealership to send them), and never been stopped. One time a cop walked around my bike while I was waiting for people to pull over (without plates) and just made the "nice bike" face while nodding his head haha. I do always ride with my gear though. But have gotten one ticket for parking on the wrong side of the street...it alternates each day of the week I guess...

I always keep my thai license (500 baht) in my pocket just in case though!

Ride Safe!

[maloyd1]

(i do it thai style )

thats where you went wrong, dont think you have equal or even similar rights to a thai person as far as being in thailand is concerned

ive seen entire thai famalies ( 2 adults ,2 kids ) with no helmet on a ancient old honda wave being waved through a checkpoint only for a farang in full riding gear to be stopped ,searched ,hassled and fined in a typical ratchada rd rollover

my friend was fined once for wearing a mirrored visor that was "illegal"

he protested because they are selling them in the BIG C

the cop gets angry and goes and get the book of "THE LAW" from his pickup and showed him some paragraph about it

they were going to keep him there all day until he paid so in the end he cracked and gave them a 500 note so he could get home

Speaking of the "law book", next time some bent copper tries to do you for not being in the left lane, challenge them to show you the law in the "nangsu gotmai" that says motorcycles are restricted to the left lane. They can't because it doesn't exist

That's true enough.. But funny enough the dark visor law IS on the books happened about 2 years ago... also to the OP have you not seen the 100% helmet posters all over the place? By 1st January next year 100% of riders in Thailand will be wearing helmets. Not sure if that will be achieved but certainly in my area Nakhon Pathom/ Bkk border most riders are wearing helmets.

Ride safe

I am confused over the 100% helmet complience. I live in the far North, Chiang Kham, 80k South of Chaing Rai. Wife has been fined 2 times (200 baht) for no helmet. I was a pillion with no helmet but was not asked to pay a fine. So does the Law require the driver to wear a helmet or everyone on the motor cycle??? Times are changing and it does make sense. Yesterday a car hit a Motor Cycle. Cars fault, failed to realise that we now have trafic lights at a major juction as you enter the high street. The mother on the motor cycle suffered small injuries. The little girl standing infront of the mother did not survive the incident. A broken arm or leg etc may be survivable but a fractured skull for the sake of a cheap helmet????

[arnoldjr]

(i do it thai style )

thats where you went wrong, dont think you have equal or even similar rights to a thai person as far as being in thailand is concerned

ive seen entire thai famalies ( 2 adults ,2 kids ) with no helmet on a ancient old honda wave being waved through a checkpoint only for a farang in full riding gear to be stopped ,searched ,hassled and fined in a typical ratchada rd rollover

my friend was fined once for wearing a mirrored visor that was "illegal"

he protested because they are selling them in the BIG C

the cop gets angry and goes and get the book of "THE LAW" from his pickup and showed him some paragraph about it

they were going to keep him there all day until he paid so in the end he cracked and gave them a 500 note so he could get home

Speaking of the "law book", next time some bent copper tries to do you for not being in the left lane, challenge them to show you the law in the "nangsu gotmai" that says motorcycles are restricted to the left lane. They can't because it doesn't exist

That's true enough.. But funny enough the dark visor law IS on the books happened about 2 years ago... also to the OP have you not seen the 100% helmet posters all over the place? By 1st January next year 100% of riders in Thailand will be wearing helmets. Not sure if that will be achieved but certainly in my area Nakhon Pathom/ Bkk border most riders are wearing helmets.

Ride safe

I am confused over the 100% helmet complience. I live in the far North, Chiang Kham, 80k South of Chaing Rai. Wife has been fined 2 times (200 baht) for no helmet. I was a pillion with no helmet but was not asked to pay a fine. So does the Law require the driver to wear a helmet or everyone on the motor cycle??? Times are changing and it does make sense. Yesterday a car hit a Motor Cycle. Cars fault, failed to realise that we now have trafic lights at a major juction as you enter the high street. The mother on the motor cycle suffered small injuries. The little girl standing infront of the mother did not survive the incident. A broken arm or leg etc may be survivable but a fractured skull for the sake of a cheap helmet????

In that case the mother of the young girl should be thrown on jail for recklessness and endangering a child's life. But we all know that wont happen. Its a shame so many young children are put in harms way by irresponsible parents.

[thaicbr]

I agree... to an extent. The education of riders is very poor but also as important the availability of helmets for children is almost

non-existent . If and when this is sorted it will be happier days.

Maybe BigC or Tesco lotus in conjuction with the government should source some different size childrens helmets as a loss leader / community special offer.

[Shocktreatment]

I agree... to an extent. The education of riders is very poor but also as important the availability of helmets for children is almost

non-existent . If and when this is sorted it will be happier days.

Maybe BigC or Tesco lotus in conjuction with the government should source some different size childrens helmets as a loss leader / community special offer.

You can get kids size cheap helmets at big c as well some helmet shops supply kid size full face helmets. It more they cant be bothered looking.

Plenty on e bay.

http://motors.shop.ebay.com/i.html?_nkw=child+helmet&_sacat=&_odkw=kids+helmet&_osacat=0&bkBtn=&_trksid=p4506.m270.l1313

[BigBikeBKK]

I agree... to an extent. The education of riders is very poor but also as important the availability of helmets for children is almost

non-existent . If and when this is sorted it will be happier days.

Maybe BigC or Tesco lotus in conjuction with the government should source some different size childrens helmets as a loss leader / community special offer.

You can get kids size cheap helmets at big c as well some helmet shops supply kid size full face helmets. It more they cant be bothered looking.

Plenty on e bay.

http://motors.shop.e...4506.m270.l1313

Erm, we're talking about Thailand, aren't we? I'm not aware of any local brand (Index, Avex, REAL) that makes children's size full face helmets. Index makes some cute little half helmets for toddlers, but they won't do jack to protect the kid in a real accident. So there's a real lack of affordable quality helmets for kids in this country.

eBay? You must be joking right? A decent quality imported full face helmet is beyond the means of most Thais...

Edited October 18, 2011 by BigBikeBKK

[wana]

(i do it thai style )

thats where you went wrong, dont think you have equal or even similar rights to a thai person as far as being in thailand is concerned

ive seen entire thai famalies ( 2 adults ,2 kids ) with no helmet on a ancient old honda wave being waved through a checkpoint only for a farang in full riding gear to be stopped ,searched ,hassled and fined in a typical ratchada rd rollover

my friend was fined once for wearing a mirrored visor that was "illegal"

he protested because they are selling them in the BIG C

the cop gets angry and goes and get the book of "THE LAW" from his pickup and showed him some paragraph about it

they were going to keep him there all day until he paid so in the end he cracked and gave them a 500 note so he could get home

Speaking of the "law book", next time some bent copper tries to do you for not being in the left lane, challenge them to show you the law in the "nangsu gotmai" that says motorcycles are restricted to the left lane. They can't because it doesn't exist

That's true enough.. But funny enough the dark visor law IS on the books happened about 2 years ago... also to the OP have you not seen the 100% helmet posters all over the place? By 1st January next year 100% of riders in Thailand will be wearing helmets. Not sure if that will be achieved but certainly in my area Nakhon Pathom/ Bkk border most riders are wearing helmets.

Ride safe

I am confused over the 100% helmet complience. I live in the far North, Chiang Kham, 80k South of Chaing Rai. Wife has been fined 2 times (200 baht) for no helmet. I was a pillion with no helmet but was not asked to pay a fine. So does the Law require the driver to wear a helmet or everyone on the motor cycle??? Times are changing and it does make sense. Yesterday a car hit a Motor Cycle. Cars fault, failed to realise that we now have trafic lights at a major juction as you enter the high street. The mother on the motor cycle suffered small injuries. The little girl standing infront of the mother did not survive the incident. A broken arm or leg etc may be survivable but a fractured skull for the sake of a cheap helmet????

if the cops werent so corrupt they would prevent whole famalies from traveling on 1 bike ,they are clearly more interested in moneymaking scams than actual road safety or accident prevention

they are always in the money spots and more often than not a family of 4 on a honda wave or yamaha mio with no helmets can drive through a checkpoint .and a farang wearing a padded jacket and fullface helmet will be fined for something ridiculous like moving into the middle lane to overtake a bus that has stopped in the left lane

until being a traffic cop involves taking your job seriously and not focused on making as much money in bribes as possible per day ,nothing will change

i think there is a competition between police to see who can get the most bribes fines each day ,especially in "money areas " like sukhumvit etc

[ScubaBuddha]

I am confused over the 100% helmet complience. I live in the far North, Chiang Kham, 80k South of Chaing Rai. Wife has been fined 2 times (200 baht) for no helmet. I was a pillion with no helmet but was not asked to pay a fine. So does the Law require the driver to wear a helmet or everyone on the motor cycle??? Times are changing and it does make sense. Yesterday a car hit a Motor Cycle. Cars fault, failed to realise that we now have trafic lights at a major juction as you enter the high street. The mother on the motor cycle suffered small injuries. The little girl standing infront of the mother did not survive the incident. A broken arm or leg etc may be survivable but a fractured skull for the sake of a cheap helmet????

Since 1997 it has been law that all passengers must wear a helmet. The police selectively enforce laws in different areas of Thailand depending on what the local police chief decides, and that is often influenced by how much locals complain. It's called a hardship concession. This is why the police chief in Phuket publicly said he will allow illegal samlors (motobikes with side cars) to be operated on Phuket roads as long as the sidecar is equipped with lights. In Phuket passengers not wearing a helmet always got a pass until about a year ago. The law didn't change, just the way the police enforce it.

I remember 2 or 3 years ago I was surprised when I caught a motorbike taxi in Bangkok and the driver handed me a helmet and told me the police will cite him if I am not wearing a helmet.

[ScubaBuddha]

Having spent several years in law enforcement in the states in a previous life I am curious as to the differences in Thai law and U.S. law thus over the years I have done a fair bit of reading on Thai law, as well has had numerous discussions with police and lawyers here. (www.thailawforum.com is an excellent resource) I also spent 2 days at a Highway Police Volunteer Seminar which was also informative, at least the parts I understood or had translated.

To answer the OP's question, attempting to identify what cop to avoid and which to not worry about is futile. Any sworn Royal Thai police officer in any division or branch (traffic, patrol, crime suppression etc.) or any department (Highway Police, Marine Police, Immigration Police, Tourist Police etc) can stop you when they see a violation. The only divisions or departments who are mandated to enforce traffic laws are traffic police branch of the Royal Thai Police and the separate Highway Police division, but that doesn't exclude other officers from stopping you if they want to. The Thai and on occasion foreign volunteers you see at the checkpoints are working under direct supervision and thus have police powers same as a regular BIB. To make it more confusing there are also OrBorTor and Tombon (district or municipal) police which can look very much like Royal Thai police, but are not sworn officers. Some may even carry a gun but they are the equivalent to a security guard, but work closely with the RTP and can also be helping at checkpoints.

Leaving corruption out of the equation for a moment (silly, I know), what I have not yet been able to confirm beyond a doubt is whether or not a sworn Thai police officer has the right to randomly stop you without cause (no infraction seen by the officer) and conduct a search of any kind, even if it's just to confirm you are licensed or not. This is evidenced by the scores of often helmetless and presumably unlicensed people who choose to stop short of a police check point to wait it out, sometimes by less then 50m, in plain view of the police yet go unmolested. Now, if you choose to go through the checkpoint, then you are in essence giving consent to be stopped and searched. But I believe strongly that if you are wearing your helmet (without a tinted visor) and have a license plate and tax disk visible and have no other obvious infractions, you are free to make a legal u-turn, or stop short of the checkpoint and wait it out as is so common the practice, but I have yet to find a source to confirm this. The cops here rely on people being stupid, and most people are when it comes to law.

On the topic of running the checkpoints, it's not standard procedure to shoot at checkpoint runners, but it has happened. There are even fleeing felon laws still on the books in the states, but over the years most courts have concluded there needs to be evidence the fleeing felon is extremely likely to immediately threaten another life. More often the cops in Thailand use a less lethal method to stop or at least discourage runners. The tossing of a traffic cone in the bikes path has been reported as a favorite. Getting a smack on the helmet with a ticket book is another. (Tony can insert his video here) But usually they won't bother with you, as there are plenty of easier fish in the sea. Police in Thailand don't generally get into high speed pursuits, but rather mobilize via radio if they are after someone.

The case of the US cop Tony showed above, the cop was sent to prison for that. Completely unprovoked. The cop was an idiot and should not have been carrying a gun, same as the more recent case of the BART cop Johannes Mehserle who shot a detained man in the back as he lay on the ground. Stupid shit happens when stupid people get all spun and have a gun in their hand.

On the topic of motorcycles keeping left, it is largely a myth. The statute states that ALL vehicles need to keep left unless passing or if the left lane is less than a certain width, or is impassable. There is no law (that I can find) stating motorcycles have to keep to the left side of an individual lane, but as we all know if you don't, the car or truck behind you will get as close as possible to your rear wheel until you do.

.

excellent post

two corrections

1. Tourist Police ..... can not stop vehicles.

Are you sure? I was fairly certain Tourist Police Officers were sworn RTP officers. If they are, then they have the same powers as a regular BIB. Maybe it's not in there mandate, but they are currently a division or the RTP. They are in the news all the time making arrests so I am pretty sure they have peace officer powers. If they weren't sworn police officers I wouldn't think they would be doing that.

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/500650-pattaya-tourist-police-arrest-suspected-jet-ski-scammers/

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/369033-tourist-police-arrest-two-suspected-drug-dealers/

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/402317-pattaya-tourist-police-arrest-swiss-suspected-child-abuser-and-thai-drug-dealing-suspect/

[Zzinged]

Erm, we're talking about Thailand, aren't we? I'm not aware of any local brand (Index, Avex, REAL) that makes children's size full face helmets. Index makes some cute little half helmets for toddlers, but they won't do jack to protect the kid in a real accident. So there's a real lack of affordable quality helmets for kids in this country.

Helmets for toddlers? Scary thought. At the very least, anyone riding a bike (legally that is, only 1 passenger on the rear) should be able to use the foot pegs... what sort of age are we talking about here when talking about children?

I hope I never have to see the aftermath of an accident involving a motorbike with 4 on board since that usually means there are at least 2 kids not wearing helmets.

[poanoi]

Helmet or not, motorbike accidents are always nasty

[BigBikeBKK]

Erm, we're talking about Thailand, aren't we? I'm not aware of any local brand (Index, Avex, REAL) that makes children's size full face helmets. Index makes some cute little half helmets for toddlers, but they won't do jack to protect the kid in a real accident. So there's a real lack of affordable quality helmets for kids in this country.

Helmets for toddlers? Scary thought. At the very least, anyone riding a bike (legally that is, only 1 passenger on the rear) should be able to use the foot pegs... what sort of age are we talking about here when talking about children?

I hope I never have to see the aftermath of an accident involving a motorbike with 4 on board since that usually means there are at least 2 kids not wearing helmets.

Hey Zzinged! Long time no see! How ya been?

Toddlers on bikes may be a scary thought, but here in Thailand it's a reality that many have only a scooter as their primary mode of transportation and that's what they use to transport their families. That's not going to change in our lifetimes.

Since the nationwide helmet campaign kicked off here in Thailand I notice a LOT more people wearing helmets, so that's a step in the right direction. But unfortunately, as mentioned before, there just aren't any good quality affordable helmets for toddlers and children in Thailand.

Will the BiB fine a family for carrying a child without a helmet? I kind of doubt it... They usually seem to leave families alone and go after more obvious and lucrative targets.

[BigBikeBKK]

Helmet or not, motorbike accidents are always nasty

Actually, if you wear proper gear they don't have to be...

[poanoi]

The three times i got cut it hurt like hell.

OK, the first time i wouldn't have smack my eye if i had had a full helmet,

but my rib out-lasted the eye in pain & handicap

[thaicbr]

Erm, we're talking about Thailand, aren't we? I'm not aware of any local brand (Index, Avex, REAL) that makes children's size full face helmets. Index makes some cute little half helmets for toddlers, but they won't do jack to protect the kid in a real accident. So there's a real lack of affordable quality helmets for kids in this country.

Helmets for toddlers? Scary thought. At the very least, anyone riding a bike (legally that is, only 1 passenger on the rear) should be able to use the foot pegs... what sort of age are we talking about here when talking about children?

I hope I never have to see the aftermath of an accident involving a motorbike with 4 on board since that usually means there are at least 2 kids not wearing helmets.

and also don't forget that on a wave they can have a toddler seat between the rider and the handle bars.

[arnoldjr]

Helmet or not, motorbike accidents are always nasty

Actually, if you wear proper gear they don't have to be...

+1

I know 2 people in the past month who crashed bikes and both were uninjured without a scratch on them. A bit of luck and whole lot of gear will save you most of the time.

[Zzinged]

Hey Zzinged! Long time no see! How ya been?

Toddlers on bikes may be a scary thought, but here in Thailand it's a reality that many have only a scooter as their primary mode of transportation and that's what they use to transport their families. That's not going to change in our lifetimes.

Heya Tony! I've been well but I'm in the process of hanging up my gloves for now. It's not worth it to me at the moment, so it doesn't make sense to hang on to the bikes when I can get a newer better model later down the track

What you said pretty much sums it up really. Unless the government manage to change people's attitude to biking, they're never going to take motorcycle safety properly.