Gasohol Vs 95 Octane

[Upcountry]

Shell scores with sales of gasohol 95

Three months after Shell Thailand launched a campaign to guarantee engines using gasohol 95, sales of its fuel have risen sharply. As a result, the company is considering plans to stop selling premium or octane 95 petrol before the government's deadline to phase out the fuel by January 2007.

``We will stop selling [premium gasoline] immediately once the local supply of ethanol can meet our demand and that of other oil companies alike, probably in the middle of next year for Shell,'' said Supan Sutthisarn, general manager for retail sales.

Shell purchases 60,000 litres of ethanol per day from Thai Alcohol Co to blend with gasoline in a 10:90 ratio to produce gasohol 95.

With the country's fourth and fifth ethanol plants coming online soon there will be sufficient ethanol stock to meet rising demand.

Shell gasohol 95 was very well received by motorists, particularly after the launch of a guarantee campaign in early August.

The company promised to take full responsibility for repair costs for any engines and fuel distribution systems arising from the use of its gasohol, on condition that the cars and motorcycles were compatible with gasohol as certified by auto companies.

The sales volume of Shell gasohol 95 has risen dramatically over the last three months to 21 million litres sold each month, from 10 million litres in the previous three.

Shell said this shows that the guarantee was well received by customers who trusted in the company's fuel.

Shell's share in the gasohol market over three months also expanded to 24% from 19% previously.

According to Mr Supan, the company is moving to expand gasohol sales to cover the entire network by the end of this year.

``We will enhance the distribution of Shell gasohol 95 to cover 600 service stations nationwide from 480 at present at the end of this year to better respond to increasing demand,'' he said.

To safeguard and expand its share in the gasohol market, the company is running another campaign from this month until December during which 100 customers will receive free tanks full of Shell gasohol 95 every week.

http://www.bangkokpost.com/Business/11Nov2005_biz39.php

Edited November 11, 2005 by Upcountry

[Upcountry]

Scaaaaaaary:

"We will stop selling [premium gasoline]immediately once the local supply of ethanol can meet our demand and that of other oil companies alike, probably in the middle of next year for Shell,'' said Supan Sutthisarn, general manager for retail sales.

Really really scary.

The company promised to take full responsibility for repair costs for any engines and fuel distribution systems arising from the use of its gasohol, on condition that the cars and motorcycles were compatible with gasohol as certified by auto companies.

Thanks. My 1993 BMW is NOT certified by the company. That means that I have a choice. Run 91, which is not good for the engine, or run gashohol which various sources assure me will eat up my fuel system in short order.

Granted, most older vehicles here in Thailand may be deisel burning pickups and Mercs, but there must be a enough folks out there who would protest Shell's plan to withdraw the fuel their cars need from the market.

What about the other oil companies. Same plan?

I thought I had until mid 2007 at least, and that the powers that be would come to their senses. How many otherwise useful vehicles do we need piled up in junkyard? Maybe it's time to export the old girl to Cambodia.

Edited November 11, 2005 by Upcountry

[barryofthailand]

What about Motorcycles. The ones with a two stroke engine and four stroke technology. will people have to add an additive?

[jonik]

thou it will create a lot of work around in thailand.Rebuilding engines

[Upcountry]

What about Motorcycles.  The ones with a two stroke engine and four stroke technology. will people have to add an additive?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Do they use 95 octane? Check with the manufacturer for the make and model to see if the "certify" it to burn gasohol.

[cdnvic]

We've been using gasohol in Canada for 25 years now. It actually makes a bigger difference in small engines because it resists carbon formation inside the combustion chamber. It burns cleaner and has yet to cause any problems.

Stop being so panicky

cv

[Crossy]

Thanks. My 1993 BMW is NOT certified by the company. That means that I have a choice. Run 91, which is not good for the engine, or run gashohol which various sources assure me will eat up my fuel system in short order.

I'm in EXACTLY the same quandry (1994 BMW). hopefully someone will start importing octane booster so we can safely use 91.

I've had no joy from BMW (Germany or Thailand) in sourcing replacement (gasohol capaple) fuel system components.

Still working on it.

[lampard10]

On roughly the same note, I pulled into a garage the other day and was offered 92 or 97. Is this normal now?

[Thaiboxer]

I suppose one alternative for all those who own ancient cars is to have the fuel system components replaced so the vehicle can handle gasohol. This would allow folks like me to keep our cars running longer. Somebody mentioned that any car made from 2000 onward would have no problems using the new fuel.

[BigA]

I would have thought that a vehicle produced in 93 would cut it.

I remember when they introduced this stuff in the US, if you had say a 1969 carburated big block like my family did in an Olds 98 then ran the alcohol laced fuel it would eat up the gaskets and internal parts that we not alcohol resistant.

I think by the time they went to fuel injection in the early 80's this was no longer a problem. The new engines that remained carburated had been built using new materials that alleviated the earlier problems.

I see gasohol as good thing. Renewable fuel additive, awesome.

[Crossy]

I would have thought that a vehicle produced in 93 would cut it.

I remember when they introduced this stuff in the US, if you had say a 1969 carburated big block like my family did in an Olds 98 then ran the alcohol laced fuel it would eat up the gaskets and internal parts that we not alcohol resistant.

I think by the time they went to fuel injection in the early 80's this was no longer a problem. The new engines that remained carburated had been built using new materials that alleviated the earlier problems.

I see gasohol as good thing. Renewable fuel additive, awesome.

Unfortunately German engineering didn't. Grrrr.

I have letters from both BMW Thailand and BMW Germany stating that gasohol will damage 'certain parts of the fuel system' of my older vehicle.

I'm quite sure that modern components can be sourced, just waiting for part numbers.

I've been down a similar route before when unleaded was introduced in the UK, I lost an engine due to valve seat erosion after faulty advice from fuel companies.

Understandably, I am a little nervous.

[Upcountry]

I spoke by phone to a BMW tech in Bangkok a few months ago, and got the same sort of bad news as you, Crossy. I was told that my car would be damaged by gasohol and that there was no fix for this. Would you mind sharing what you find about parts with us here on this forum thread?

The other day I stopped in for a 1000 baht fill-up (jep) and was asked, for the first time, if I'd like gasohol. I emphatically said, “my ow! Rot geng my ow gasohol, ow benzine roi percen'” in my fractured Thai. The attendant had me back up a bit to a different pump and filled up the tank.

Yesterday, on a day trip, I noticed that the car had dramatically better performance - the kind I would expect it to have never get (normally, the 1.8 four cylinder feels a bit sluggish until I push it).

This makes me wonder if I was given gasohol anyway - maybe the attendant didn't realize that they had put gasohol in all the pumps!

I think part of the reason that Shell (and other companies?) are planning to drop 95 is that the percentage of customers in our position is very small because of the popularity of diesel here. We don’t have enough clout as customers to fight that decision.

Who knows, maybe cdnvic is right, and there is no point in worrying. It could be that BMW is just covering their buts by saying that pre-96 'BMs can't run gasohol.

At the same time I’m wondering if part of the enthusiasm that people here in Thailand have for gasohol comes from the improved performance and ignorance about the damage it might be doing to their vehicles.

[Upcountry]

Here's an interesting link.

I don't know how much it applies to the ethanol sold in Thailand, or to all makes of car.

http://www.nwicc.com/pages/continuing/busi...nol/Module5.htm

And here's another one, which casts an interesting light on the sense of ethanol in the first place:

http://www.news.cornell.edu/releases/Aug01...thanol.hrs.html

It's not free. Land that has been used for other purposes is being converted to grow sources for ethanol. I've hear it said, but not confirmed, that evaporation in warm climates reduces the effectiveness of gasohol. When you look this, along with the fact that fuel economy drops, it makes you wonder why Thailand would make this choice.

In the US, they have a reason to subside corn farmers, and so on. Here there are other crops (rice, etc.) that would tend to be better candidates for that.

No question, we need to find ways to reduce the use of imported fuel, so why not strongly support hybrid cars and the manufacture of hybrid systems here? Now.

Edited November 13, 2005 by Upcountry

[Plus+]

There's very little information available on Thai gasohol, and it's mostly negative - in performance and acceleration, and in possible dangers.

Both Bangkok Post and The Nation's auto joutnalists are very cautios about it.

If Shell drops '95, there are still PTT and Jet, and Esso and Caltex.

[Upcountry]

Hasn't PTT gone gasohol too? I must look for Esso and Caltex in my area. One of the latter I think...

[Upcountry]

I called B&W in Bangkok and got one answer, as mentioned above. It might be useful for others to call them too, to see if they say the same thing, add to it, or contradict it in any way.

Here's the number I called: 02-305-8888, there might be a better one.

I still haven't gotten an answer from my upcountry dealer.

Thanks,

UC

[gharknes]

OK sorry for not understanding the technicals

Is this move the same as the UK did several years ago when they dropped leaded fuel to go unleaded, is the current 95 oct fuel in thailand leaded ? and the 91oct unleaded ?

can someone explain

[Upcountry]

I don't believe they have sold leaded fuel here for a long time. Both 91 and 95 are unleaded.

Nevertheless, unless a groundswell of protest ensues, 95 will be history, and all cars that need it will either need to be retired, poke along on 91, or be retrofitted to handle gasohol.

I wouldn't be surprised if there is a last minute protest about dropping 95 altogether, or against the use of gasohol once the public is educated on the downside.

On a tangential subject, has anyone seen the two-page spread advert by Toyota in some of the Thai papers?

I saw one up country, here. It's a great campaign, using color cartoon like graphics of a robot introducing hybrid technology to a group of kids. The gasoline automobile is depicted as one of the original horseless carriages. They also include diagrams of the drive train, etc., to show people how hybrids work - including regenerative breaking.

So, we may see more of a movement toward hybrids soon. I look forward to BMW coming out with one - probably in the next two or three years -- though I won't be able to afford one.

UC

Edited November 19, 2005 by Upcountry

[gharknes]

OK sorry for not understanding the technicals

Is this move the same as the UK did several years ago when they dropped leaded fuel to go unleaded, is the current 95 oct fuel in thailand leaded ? and the 91oct unleaded ?

can someone explain

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

no wonder the big oil companies are pushing this, an increase in revenue due to the decreased mpl.......................nice...............we loose

[andyfletch]

I called B&W in Bangkok and got one answer, as mentioned above. It might be useful for others to call them too, to see if they say the same thing, add to it, or contradict it in any way.

Here's the number I called: 02-305-8888, there might be a better one.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I tried BMW customer service on Friday - their response:

" We do not recommend using gasohol in your car"

Me " So what do I use instead?"

BMW " We don't know, it's the governments problem!!!!!!"

Helpful???.......Customer Oriented?????.......

NOT...........useless

They also recommended talking to BMW dealer as they might be able to help! If the customer service department of the main importer cannot help , why should they think a dealer can help.

I'm not impressed one bit!