Stopping Mother From Taking Child To Thailand

[theblether]

I was responding to:

Ok, that is the pure law, in your specific case I don't know how the Thai authorities would react to a British court order demanding recall of the child. In most Western countries the recall would be enforced by the local court as most Western countries have an agreement in place to prevent such unauthorized removal of children.

Fair enough, I really do have no idea of how the Thai courts would view such an order from the UK courts, or any idea about family law in Thailand.

Therefore it is imperative that the OP uses the opportunity he has just now to prevent flight from the English court jurisdiction. It will be easier to fight on home turf.

[beano2274]

I was responding to:

Ok, that is the pure law, in your specific case I don't know how the Thai authorities would react to a British court order demanding recall of the child. In most Western countries the recall would be enforced by the local court as most Western countries have an agreement in place to prevent such unauthorized removal of children.

Fair enough, I really do have no idea of how the Thai courts would view such an order from the UK courts, or any idea about family law in Thailand.

Therefore it is imperative that the OP uses the opportunity he has just now to prevent flight from the English court jurisdiction. It will be easier to fight on home turf.

The Thai court would tell them where to go, he is by Thai law not the father and would not be recognised as so by a Thai court.

[champken]

Ultimately i don't think you have a chance in hell of preventing her eventually returning to Thailand and even if you did she could and probably would make things extremely difficult for you to have any meaningful contact with your child, whether it be in the UK or Thailand, and you can be sure if things get nasty you could be accused of all sorts and she will be aided and abetted by feminist groups and legal aid funded lawyers.

I am guessing here, but i would think that she probably receives benefits while in the UK including child benefit, all of which she would not be entitled to receive while living outside the EU, that could be the stick you threaten to hit her with if need be,

[theblether]

I was responding to:

Ok, that is the pure law, in your specific case I don't know how the Thai authorities would react to a British court order demanding recall of the child. In most Western countries the recall would be enforced by the local court as most Western countries have an agreement in place to prevent such unauthorized removal of children.

Fair enough, I really do have no idea of how the Thai courts would view such an order from the UK courts, or any idea about family law in Thailand.

Therefore it is imperative that the OP uses the opportunity he has just now to prevent flight from the English court jurisdiction. It will be easier to fight on home turf.

The Thai court would tell them where to go, he is by Thai law not the father and would not be recognised as so by a Thai court.

So all the more reason why he has to try to prevent flight from the country. The Thai courts are irrelevant up until such times as the child actually arrives in Thailand.

The OP should also point out to the British courts that if they allow the mother to take the child to Thailand then he will have no rights as he is not recognized as the father in Thai law, according to your contention, ( as I said earlier, I have no idea about Thai family law ).

The child is in English court jurisdiction right now, so the only thing that matters today is what the English courts say.

[houseinbkk]

The outcome is she will keep our daughter and presumably raise her either via funding from the UK govt. or take her back to Thailand and id imagine drop her off with parents at the family farm in interbred hicksville. With out going into the ins and outs of it Ive been put in a position where all i can think of doing is buggering off and have nothing to do with them (inc no financial support) and as much as it will destroy my life and probably affect my daughter ive only options which been given 1 option to see her occasionally which isnt feasible.

There is no point in trying for custody she is good at looking after the baby (apart from the lack of ability to see its in her childs interest to have a father) and i am away 6 months of the year. I didnt sign up to this fiasco to see my child 2 weekends every other month until she decides to go back to Thailand.

Id have bought them a house to live in, paid for private schooling and saw her the equivilant of every other day if things could have been sorted out amicably, and eventually moved to Thailand in a year or 2 once things are settled with work.

Irony is i never once got seriously involved with a Thai girl in LOS because ive seen to many peoples lives be destroyed when things went wrong, i should have stuck to my gut instinct.

Edited November 15, 2011 by houseinbkk

[ludditeman]

Sorry to hear about that.

The UK just always turns out that way, woman meets evil solicitor.

Accusations of domestic violence, cruelty, child abuse, suicide threats (pick any combination) get her 100% custody and you supervised visits twice a week.

Your only escape is unemployment, she will go for maintenance payments if you are working, they will confiscate/cancel your passport if you fail to pay them.

Edited November 16, 2011 by ludditeman

[garrfeild]

But I guess you are recognized as the father under UK law and do have custody.

The problem is a problem of facts. If the mother has the passports, she can leave the country with the kid and nobody will stop her. So must act before that.

Not quite right, Unless the father can prove the mother is not fit to look after the child, he will not get custody, Courts generally aim to keep the child with the mother. As they aren't married and the child probably doesn't have the fathers family name, It is doubtfull he could get custody. Even if his name is on the birth certificate.

It will cost you a lot of money trying to prove your right to keeping the child or stopping the mother from taking the child back to Thailand. You can't get legal aid for this.

[garrfeild]

The outcome is she will keep our daughter and presumably raise her either via funding from the UK govt. or take her back to Thailand and id imagine drop her off with parents at the family farm in interbred hicksville. With out going into the ins and outs of it Ive been put in a position where all i can think of doing is buggering off and have nothing to do with them (inc no financial support) and as much as it will destroy my life and probably affect my daughter ive only options which been given 1 option to see her occasionally which isnt feasible.

There is no point in trying for custody she is good at looking after the baby (apart from the lack of ability to see its in her childs interest to have a father) and i am away 6 months of the year. I didnt sign up to this fiasco to see my child 2 weekends every other month until she decides to go back to Thailand.

Id have bought them a house to live in, paid for private schooling and saw her the equivilant of every other day if things could have been sorted out amicably, and eventually moved to Thailand in a year or 2 once things are settled with work.

Irony is i never once got seriously involved with a Thai girl in LOS because ive seen to many peoples lives be destroyed when things went wrong, i should have stuck to my gut instinct.

If this is genuinely about wanting the best for the child, and not a way of getting at your girlfriend. Then, rather than letting a court decide whats what. Why don't you sit down with her and see if there is an ammicable solution to the problem. If you really care for the child offer some sort of finanacial support, or practicle help, tied in with you having rights to see the child, whether she goes back to Thailand or not.

It may be hard to accept, the end of the relationship, but don't let that cloud what should be in the best interest of the child. besides if your away for 6 months of the year. How do you honestly expect to look after the child? It is debatable as to whether a child needs a father more than a mother. I know you have tried to talk things through, but was that with threats of stopping her from taking the child? Try it without the threats maybe!

Edited November 16, 2011 by garrfeild

[ludditeman]

If this is genuinely about wanting the best for the child, and not a way of getting at your girlfriend. Then, rather than letting a court decide whats what. Why don't you sit down with her and see if there is an ammicable solution to the problem. If you really care for the child offer some sort of finanacial support, or practicle help, tied in with you having rights to see the child, whether she goes back to Thailand or not.

You're joking right! This is happening in the UK police state.

From what the op has written there has been the standard UK report of violence from the woman.

If he were to sit down with her, he would be arrested and held in jail (usually over a weekend)

If he were to try and phone her, he would be accused of harassment and threatened by the UK police.

[Mario2008]

The OP never stated that the mother filed a report of domestic violence.

[garrfeild]

If this is genuinely about wanting the best for the child, and not a way of getting at your girlfriend. Then, rather than letting a court decide whats what. Why don't you sit down with her and see if there is an ammicable solution to the problem. If you really care for the child offer some sort of finanacial support, or practicle help, tied in with you having rights to see the child, whether she goes back to Thailand or not.

You're joking right! This is happening in the UK police state.

From what the op has written there has been the standard UK report of violence from the woman.

If he were to sit down with her, he would be arrested and held in jail (usually over a weekend)

If he were to try and phone her, he would be accused of harassment and threatened by the UK police.

I have just re-read the whole thread. No where does the OP say he has been reported to the police for threats or violence, or do I need new glasses? Though I know it would be easy for her to make allegations. There is such a thing as arbitration, though this is orgainised through solicitors, though he could contact the Family court and ask about that!

However if you are right, then he has no hope. Where I have used the word threats, It is meant in using court action in stopping her take the child. Not threats of violence.

Maybe you need glasses

Edited November 16, 2011 by garrfeild

[ludditeman]

I have just re-read the whole thread. No where does the OP say he has been reported to the police for threats or violence, or do I need new glasses? Though I know it would be easy for her to make allegations. There is such a thing as arbitration, though this is orgainised through solicitors, though he could contact the Family court and ask about that!

However if you are right, then he has no hope.

If you confess to a police report on this forum the next 20 posts say, no smoke without fire, we haven't heard her side of the story, etc.

So nobody admits that any more, but the op reports restricted access, which is always a result of such a report (which is why most such reports are made in the first place)

Arbitration, the woman agrees then doesn't turn up. If there is a police report the arbitrator will suggest arbitration not suitable anyway.

Men with kids in the UK are totally screwed, IMHO better to walk away at the first sign of 'accusations' and create more children with a nicer woman.

Edited November 16, 2011 by ludditeman

[houseinbkk]

If this is genuinely about wanting the best for the child, and not a way of getting at your girlfriend. Then, rather than letting a court decide whats what. Why don't you sit down with her and see if there is an ammicable solution to the problem. If you really care for the child offer some sort of finanacial support, or practicle help, tied in with you having rights to see the child, whether she goes back to Thailand or not.

It may be hard to accept, the end of the relationship, but don't let that cloud what should be in the best interest of the child. besides if your away for 6 months of the year. How do you honestly expect to look after the child? It is debatable as to whether a child needs a father more than a mother. I know you have tried to talk things through, but was that with threats of stopping her from taking the child? Try it without the threats maybe!

Ive never threatened to take our child off her im not in a position to get 100% custody besides that she is very good with our daughter, i spoke to her about stopping the child going away if she moved back but in reality she would be able to prove she could look after her in Thailand as she could get a decent job so its a non starter ..no point starting an a custody fight you cant win imo.

There was never a relationship, the child was an accident i done the decent thing by standing by her, the whole situation is complicated but it could have been resolved if the other party was willing to be reasonable and flexible for about 12 months until ive saved enough money and i am in a position to pick and choose jobs. (she'd have got a house out of the money until our child was old enough to go her own way)

But my threat of clearing off which is about to become reality if she couldnt see reason is unfortunately the only reasonable option i have if im going to attempt to keep my own life together, as this scenario will go on for years and i'll end up being on the losing side in the end, may aswell cut my losses now.

Horrible thing to do for our daughter by both of us but civil discussions seem to have ended.

Edited November 16, 2011 by houseinbkk

[Mario2008]

It is always a sad thing, but if you can't see the child regularly it will be of no use if they are stil very young. Children under 4 years old simply haven't got a very good memory, so one becomes a stranger to them very quickly.

But you must be there when she grows older, than the child will wants to know about her fahter.

[IMA_FARANG]

Just be very careful, all she has to say is that you were violent towards her and everything can change within seconds.

Tread carefully and be prepared for the worst, if anything good happens it is a bonus.

-----------------------

Yes, talk to that soliciter FIRST, and listen carefully to the advice.

None of us here are lawyers so we are NOT experts.

That's why you need that soliciter.

And how old is the CHILD? If the child is capable of choosing between mom and dad...and the child does indeed want to stay with mom...unless you can prove the mother unfit...in general child services will always favor mom over dad.

Whether you like it our not, child services when faced with such a delima, takes the position that the MOTHER carried the child around for nine months...and you as the FATHER had less involvement in her birth.

That may not seem fair but it is the case. Unless you can show some valid reason the mother's care is not up to standard...you have basically <deleted> all change of getting a court to take the child away from the mother's care.

Simply asserting that the child will have a better future in the U.K. than Thailand will cut no mustard, even with a U.K. child custody court.

And remember....if you falsely besmirch her character, you open yourself to a complaint against you. That will surely prejudice any chance you have later in a child custody hearing.

That's why you must be VERY careful.

Edited November 17, 2011 by IMA_FARANG

[randomname13579]

I read this with interest. I have just started my nightmare - and like your case it spreads Thailand and Europe.

You appear to have a bit of a defeatest attitude

"no chance in the Thai courts"

"Sucks being a father theses days you know at the end of the day there will be sweet FA i can do, might aswell be referred to as sperm donors"

This will filter down not only in the courts but also to your child and she will end up making her own decisions.

Thing is my ex is a great mum too - but our children need both parents and that is what they are going to get - we both went into this with our eyes open and then boom - all of a sudden the car crash attitudue towards having children comes out!

I also believe that Ludditman provided some good information - report to the Police, ask them to escalate it to Interpol (The UK Police will have to deal with it / take the case on) as it concerns a UK child that is registered here to a UK Father. The Police might not know about excalating it to Interpol however talk to the Foreign and Commonwealth Office (Child Abduction ) division

Child Abduction Section: Europe; South & Central Asia; Afghanistan & The Caucasus |Consular Directorate

Foreign & Commonwealth Office| London SW1A 2AH Tel: + 44 (0)20 7008 0200

Report this as soon as possible - this dept should be able to raise the flight risk.

Good luck and I hope it works out for you!

SWDT