Thai Immigration Blacklists

[sainstman]

Hi all

I would appreciate any feedback to lay my mind at rest. I have recently married a Thai national and am in the process or arranging her UK settlement visa. In the interim I am making trips to see her in Thailand.

Before I was in a relationship with my wife I had been in a horrible 4 year relationship with another Thai national in the UK - the relationship breaking up when I discovered she had been doing all sorts of things behind my back like seeing other guys, gambling our money away in casinos, and I suspect having spoken to some of her friends after we split up that she was also selling her body. All in all a nasty piece of work, despite the fact I did everything for her and provided her with accommodation, sorted out her 'money issues' and all sorts. This isn't a sob story because I am happy now with my wife who is completely the opposite end of the spectrum, university educated, middle class family, proper job etc.

Here's the thing. When I split up with my ex, it was a sudden thing as I found out she had been seeing another guy for 9 months. I kicked her out of my property and she went to stay with him. Since then she sent me a series of nasty text messages saying that she was livid that I kicked her out and that bad things would happen to me and when she found out I was in a relationship with my now wife, a lot of bad mouthing and threats and desire to stop our relationship. All the typical things one would expect from her but I do worry she will try and make problems for us.

One of the things I was worried about is that she might try and make an anonymous call to Thai immigration and accuse me of something to get me blacklisted, or UK immigration to do the same to my wife. I should point out now that I have never had any problems whatsoever in my life with the police either in the UK or overseas, likewise my wife has a totally clean police record. With regards to the Thai immigration, is it possible to be put on a blacklist simply from an anonymous call and with no proof of misdemeanour (if so, blimey anyone could do it out of spite!) or does it have to happen as a result of either committing a crime or breaking Thai immigration rules etc? My wife thinks I'm worrying about nothing - in any case she says she has friends in the Thai Government who could help in any such eventuality but as she says there is no way they can blacklist you based on hearsay - they would have to establish criminal records etc and if someone made an allegation they wouldn't be able to do it anonymously as the authorities would want to establish the facts and if someone had made a serious allegation subsequently found out to be false they could face serious penalties.

The reason I say this is I am taking my mum to visit my wife in the New Year (it will be the first time they will have met in person) and I just worry 'what if' my ex tried to do something like that. I have been to Thailand over 20 times in total, and this trip will be the 5th visit I will have made to visit my wife and I have never had any issues, it's just that we have only recently married and this could potentially push my ex over the edge once she finds out and do something crazy. My wife thinks I'm a paranoid worrier who is thinking too much and that even if my ex did try to do something and I got detained at Thai immigration, the Thai authorities would very easily be able to verify my police records both in Thailand and the UK and see that they are clear. But I know of other countries (cough *USA* cough) where they can refuse entry on any whim even if you have done nothing wrong, and with no chance to clear your name prior to deportation.

So, in your experience, with me on one side worrying about something that is very unlikely to happen (but could) and on the other side my wife laughing at me for being such a silly worrying sod, where do you see the situation?

Best

Sainstman

[PoorSucker]

Don't worry, Thai drama queens comes up with this scenario all the time.

You can only be blacklisted if you have been tried in Thai court sentenced and deported.

[sainstman]

"Thai Drama Queen" lol! I think you must have met my ex as that describes her perfectly.

Many thanks for your response, pretty much the same as my wife has said then!

[Thanyaburi Mac]

". But I know of other countries (cough *USA* cough) where they can refuse entry on any whim even if you have done nothing wrong,"

Wow, guess I'd better be careful, even if I am a Yank. Thanks for the warning!

Mac

[Richard4849]

Unless her dad happens to be chief of immigration (unlikely if she was dating you) you have nothing to worry about.

[merijn]

Don't you worry.

Blacklisting is very seldom done.

Nobody can just ask the immigration to blacklist anybody.

[4evermaat]

Blacklisting is rare. Seems immigration is much more concerned about fine money, if anything.

[Mario2008]

1 off topic post about Thai woman deleted.

[beano2274]

Blacklisted under Section 12 of the Immigration Act

There are many ways to be blacklisted. First of all, all those that falls into one of the categories under Section 12 of the Immigration Act are candidate for blacklisting.

1. Having no genuine and valid passport or document used in lieu of passport; or having a genuine and valid passport or document used in lieu of a passport without Visa issue by the Royal Thai Embassies or Consulates in Foreign countries; or from the Ministry of Foreign Affairs, excepting if a visa is not required for certain types of aliens in special instances. Visa issuing and visa exemption will be under the terms and conditions as provided in the Ministerial Regulations.

2. Having no appropriate means of living following entrance into the Kingdom.

3. Having entered into the Kingdom to take occupation as a laborer or to take employment by using physical without skills training or to work in violation of the Ministerial Regulations.

4. Being mentally unstable or having any of the disease as prescribed in the Ministerial Regulations.

5. Having not yet been vaccinated against smallpox or inoculated or undergone any other medical treatment for protection against disease and having refused to have such vaccinations administered by the immigration Doctor.

6. Having been imprisoned by the judgment of the Thai Court; or by a lawful injunction; or by the judgment of the Court of foreign country, except when the penalty is foe petty offense or negligence or is provided for as an exception in the Ministerial Regulations.

7. Having behavior which would indicated possible danger to the public or likelihood of being a nuisance or constituting any violence to the peace or safety of the public or to the security of the public or to the security of the nation , or being under warrant of arrest by competent officials of foreign governments.

8. Reason to believe that entrance into the Kingdom was for the purpose of being involved in prostitution, the trading of woman of children, drug smuggling, or other types of smuggling which are contrary to the public morality.

9. Having no money or bond as prescribed by the Minister under him

10. Being a person prohibited by the Minister under Section 16.

11. Being deported by either the Government of Thailand that of or other foreign countries; or the right of stay in the Kingdom or in foreign countries having been revoked; or having been sent out of the Kingdom by competent officials at the expense of the Government of Thailand unless the Minister shall consider exemption on an individual special case basis.

The examination and diagnosis of disease of a physical or mental nature, including protective operations as against disease, shall be conducted by the immigration Doctor.

Blacklisted under Section 16 of the Immigration Act

Then another way to made it on the list is per application of Section 16 of the Immigration Act.

Section 16 is a kind of “carryall” clause that allows the Minister of Interior to blacklist not only individuals for their actions but also groups of individuals for reason of national welfare or safeguarding the public peace, culture , morality, or welfare.

Note that Section 16 furthermore allows the Minister to blacklist a group or an individual if he “considers it improper to allow any alien or any group of alien to enter into the Kingdom “.

Is blacklisting systematic?

Falling into one of the blacklist category does not always mean systematic blacklisting.

The use of the blacklist is generally for those who are considered dangerous for the country, but the fact is that there have been over the years more than a few cases were folks ended up on the black list for what they feel was nearly nothing as you may find out by checking Thai various forums. As I said it is always a question of appreciation.

Writing the wrong thing may also results in blacklisting or the threat of being blacklisted. A few journalists have made this experience over the years.

Where you have to be careful is that working without a work permit or overstaying is also among the causes for blacklisting and may earn the unfortunate his/her place on the blacklist.

While blacklisting is not systematic for people that have been deported for working without a work permit or overstaying a visa it may happen. Why take the chance?

What to do when blacklisted?

Normally once you are blacklisted that is it.

Of course you may try to appeal with a Thai court or the competent authorities, or try to ask the authorities of your country to obtain from Thai authorities that they remove you from the list but I would not waste too much time on the process.

Once you are on it, you are on it until you are removed.

May you try to come back in Thailand?

I would not recommend it.

There have been stories of people blacklisted that tried to come back in Thailand. Most were stopped at the border and directly sent back others were caught once in the country. Being arrested in Thailand while blacklisted will mean detention until deportation.

As Thai authorities do not pay for the cost of deportation, the blacklisted person will have to wait in detention for as long as he does not have enough money for a plane ticket.

Now if one is blacklisted and came back in Thailand anyway the chances are that he has broken a set of law or another (used a forget passport, entered illegally…), so in addition of detention there might be another trial, another sentence and more time in jail. The game is certainly not worth it, go somewhere else.