Complacent Bangkokians Will Have To Suffer In Turn

[zorro1]

Is it not enough that we have we are

being choked to death by exhaust fumes

suffer through impossible traffic gridlock

pay exorbitant rent/real estate pricing

pay the most for our girl friends

Bkk takes one for the team every day IMO

we now have to be flooded by choice as well?

whens the next flight out a here

[GentlemanJim]

There is an irony in all of this for the Thai people that voted in this Government. If you vote people in to Government who have no experience, who are crooked, corrupt and self serving, then when the sh*t hits the fan, you have leaders with no experience, who are self serving and who will take advantage of the people and the situation. This country has the quality of Government it deserves, that is the one they voted for. I guess right now the few thousand baht made by red protestors last year and the money given to villages (on loan) by Thaksin doesn't really make up for the misery of the people in the North now.

The only saving grace is that this is not occurring under the Dems. My reason for sauying that is simple as there would likely follow a civil war when the likes of Juttaporn would be whipping the reds up in to a frenzy of violence with stories of how the elite are dry while the poor are left to suffer (I doubt Juttaporn has his wet suit on now!)

Maybe voting in a Government next time will, people will consider more than clearly impossible promises and bullsh*t. This Government is giving the Thai people all it has got .....nothing. I think the only man that can hold his head up higher because of his honest communications and warnings to the people is the Governor of Bangkok.

[GentlemanJim]

whens the next flight out a here

Quite a lot in fact over the next 24 hrs.

[creck]

I think most of the posts here have been spot on. The people of Bangkok should not be called names or blamed for the flooding up country. That flooding happened before the water reached Bangkok. Bangkok will hold some water but it will be insignificant for the presently flooded areas. The people in Bangkok were not on the streets protesting at the possibility of their floods they were around doing what they could to help the nation.

The important thing is that the river level is as high as possible. I don’t think that has been done. Why was it possible to open sluice gates for Rangsit canal and reduce the flood threat in that area? Only possible if the river had spare capacity – if true (I don’t have information to be sure) then that is scandalous. I hope what is being proposed is to raise the level of the river as high as possible without regard to the flooding that it will cause. Only that way will we see the water from the whole nation escape.

The decision to protect Bangkok was correct. More people live in the low lying areas of Bangkok than have been affected in the rest of the country. The area is full of computer centres and HQs that if incapacitated will paralyse the country. I hope that the time given to Bangkok so far has been used for building protection to the specific points that must be protected at all costs. That is hospitals, power stations, Computer centres...

If not then there will be chaos.

Edited October 21, 2011 by metisdead
Font, use default forum font when posting.

[GazR]

Bangkokians are not the ones who decided what dams to fill and which flood gates to open. The anger is misplaced. It is your government who decided. What makes Bangkokians complacent? Most of the are hard working people from all over Thailand trying to make a living. Many are volunteering and donating to help their fellow Thais. Just because Bangkok is downstream and hit last does not make their residents evil or complacent. Bangkokians are/may be victims too.

Whether or not itrying to safeguard the economic sector after the severe hits to the agricultural and industrial sector is right or wrong is debatable, but this decision was not make by the residents, it was made by the government.

Sober reply to emotional outburst - thanks.

[koosdeboer]

There is an irony in all of this for the Thai people that voted in this Government. If you vote people in to Government who have no experience, who are crooked, corrupt and self serving, then when the sh*t hits the fan, you have leaders with no experience, who are self serving and who will take advantage of the people and the situation. This country has the quality of Government it deserves, that is the one they voted for. I guess right now the few thousand baht made by red protestors last year and the money given to villages (on loan) by Thaksin doesn't really make up for the misery of the people in the North now.

The only saving grace is that this is not occurring under the Dems. My reason for sauying that is simple as there would likely follow a civil war when the likes of Juttaporn would be whipping the reds up in to a frenzy of violence with stories of how the elite are dry while the poor are left to suffer (I doubt Juttaporn has his wet suit on now!)

Maybe voting in a Government next time will, people will consider more than clearly impossible promises and bullsh*t. This Government is giving the Thai people all it has got .....nothing. I think the only man that can hold his head up higher because of his honest communications and warnings to the people is the Governor of Bangkok.

Jatuporn with his buddy nattawut is everyday on red tv, many times wearing a nice suit, and telling his audience that it' s all the democrats fault this is happening.

[Rosco911]

The decision to spare Bangkok for as long as possible was the right decision. Bangkok is the nerve center, the financial center, the city that represents Thailand. Keeping Bangkok functioning as long as possible, kept the country going. It's easy to say should've,, would've, could've, but the key government and key military command centers are in Bangkok.The location selection dates back decades. The military hadn't even considered relocating key command functions until recent days. The government will have a hard time functioning without Bangkok because this is where the key bureaucrats and scientists are located. The major medical centers are in Bangkok. There are literally tens of thousands of critically ill people in hospitals that are transported in from outside of Bangkok, that have nowhere to go. The medical care strategy ahs always used Bangkok as the core region for high risk medical care. I am sorry large portions of Thailand have suffered the brunt of the flooding, but having Bangkok up and working allowed for all of these people to be helped. As Bangkok floods, the ability to assist those in need will contract.

The next question will be whether or not the south will be able to step up and provide the relief needed.

As you stated, all the key controls (government, economic, scientific and military) have been centralized in Bangkok for decades, which means they have had decades to decentralize its operations. Any successful operation structure is built with contingency and redundancy. As a former crisis manager who developed contingency plans for a major high rise building in Los Angeles; I, in partnership with city and state government insured both a Plan A and Plan B in response to any potential disaster. We especially understood the potential for a catastrophic earthquake, and designed our best case scenarios form our worst case scenarios We recommended to our tenants that they utilize the use of alternate data storage in states that were not in proximity to California which might also suffer, by extension damage outside of an earthquakes epicenter. Government and the private sector worked together to implement the structures of crisis management and to be prepared for any inevitability. This had everything to do with sharing resources and insuring, if I may simply the process, that all of our eggs were not concentrated into one basket. As Bangkok floods, to use your analogy, the ability to assist those has already contracted simply due to the distractions of attempting to salvage its centralized operations and resources, and its inability to execute or communicate an effective disaster management plan. The government is already having a hard time functioning, and because it lacks the components of proper disaster mitigation, people are suffering; and, the major medical facilities you speak of are far beyond the reach of an ordinary Thai citizen, so it's a stretch to imply that any of them would suffer if in the event these hospitals were compromised if Bangkok were flooded. I too am sorry that large portions of Thais have suffered because of the worst flooding in at least 50 years, but it does not mean they should have to continue to suffer to insure the integrity of a system that set itself up for disaster. To ask people to suffer (more) because of the incompetence of others who want to avoid suffering is the height of arrogance, and it is obvious that those who have suffered are, for the most part unwilling to accept that they should continue to suffer anymore than they already have.

Well said.

[zorro1]

I think most of the posts here have been spot on. The people of Bangkok should not be called names or blamed for the flooding up country. That flooding happened before the water reached Bangkok. Bangkok will hold some water but it will be insignificant for the presently flooded areas. The people in Bangkok were not on the streets protesting at the possibility of their floods they were around doing what they could to help the nation.

[The important thing is that the river level is as high as possible. I don't think that has been done. Why was it possible to open sluice gates for Rangsit canal and reduce the flood threat in that area? Only possible if the river had spare capacity – if true (I don't have information to be sure) then that is scandalous. I hope what is being proposed is to raise the level of the river as high as possible without regard to the flooding that it will cause. Only that way will we see the water from the whole nation escape.

The decision to protect Bangkok was correct. More people live in the low lying areas of Bangkok than have been affected in the rest of the country. The area is full of computer centres and HQs that if incapacitated will paralyse the country. I hope that the time given to Bangkok so far has been used for building protection to the specific points that must be protected at all costs. That is hospitals, power stations, Computer centres...

If not then there will be chaos.

"The decision to protect Bangkok was correct. More people live in the low lying areas of Bangkok than have been affected in the rest of the country"

good point, there are some 12 mill people in BKK mostly outside of high rise towers. it would be carnage even if it were just a few feet.

[zydeco]

However, to prevent panic it will be done district by district rather than just opening the gates and letting the water find its own course.

All of which will likely make the flooding itself worse. This is exactly what I have feared they were doing. Some of these areas of Bangkok now being flooded would not have been had the water release come earlier. Now, with what you're telling us, the authorities are pooling up the water in one district after another and THEN going on to the next, which will assure that everybody gets put under a meter or two of water, instead of the alternative, where only a few areas go under two or three meters and widespread areas get hit with only 20 to 50 cm. Madness.

[MunterHunter]

Jatuporn with his buddy nattawut is everyday on red tv, many times wearing a nice suit, and telling his audience that it' s all the democrats fault this is happening.

That man is dangerous, the sooner the Thai people wake up and see his bile and poison for what it is, the sooner this country can start to heal and move forward again.

During the red shirt protests, i came within arms length of Jutaporn, i should have choked the life out of him then and there and saved this country a lot of pain.

Maybe its all my fault after all?

Edited October 21, 2011 by MunterHunter

[DLock]

I am a highly qualified and skilled water management expert with many years experience.

At 6 years old I blocked up the drains in my street with dirt and sticks only to watch the water reach a level where the pressure broke my dam and washed it away.

At 9 years old, we tried to block up a stream so we could build a dam and go fishing. The water was too strong and the dam broke and we lost all the water.

At 11 years old I got my PHD (Play Hands Dirty) by learning that sand walls at the beach did not hold back the tide once they got wet.

I am far more qualified that anyone in the Thai Government and had they asked, I would have been happy to share my years of experience.

Open the floodgates. Let the water disperse over a wide area and everyone get a little wet...otherwise, they are going to learn what I learnt at 6 years old....eventually the pressure will break the barriers and the damage will be uncontrolled, swift and greater.

[JohnAllan]

Thailand has been flood prone from time immemorial. For Yingluck to plead ignorance of the likely scale of the crisis is inconceivable. Effective government, like effective investment, is about anticipation.

[geriatrickid]

There is an irony in all of this for the Thai people that voted in this Government. If you vote people in to Government who have no experience, who are crooked, corrupt and self serving, then when the sh*t hits the fan, you have leaders with no experience, who are self serving and who will take advantage of the people and the situation. This country has the quality of Government it deserves, that is the one they voted for. I guess right now the few thousand baht made by red protestors last year and the money given to villages (on loan) by Thaksin doesn't really make up for the misery of the people in the North now.

The only saving grace is that this is not occurring under the Dems. My reason for sauying that is simple as there would likely follow a civil war when the likes of Juttaporn would be whipping the reds up in to a frenzy of violence with stories of how the elite are dry while the poor are left to suffer (I doubt Juttaporn has his wet suit on now!)

Maybe voting in a Government next time will, people will consider more than clearly impossible promises and bullsh*t. This Government is giving the Thai people all it has got .....nothing. I think the only man that can hold his head up higher because of his honest communications and warnings to the people is the Governor of Bangkok.

This doesn't have much to do with the current government. Every government that came before it for the last 25 years is responsible. I am not excusing the PM or PTP, but the decisions were made by people that included previous Democratic , military and previous incarnations of the PTP. Everyone ignored the problem.

There is only one major floodway in the world similar to what Bangkok needs.. This floodway has repeatedly saved a major city and surrounding industrial zones and it is called the Red River Floodway. Construction of the Floodway started in 1962 and finished in 1968. The construction was a major undertaking with 76.5 million cubic metres of earth excavated—more than what was moved for the Suez Canal At the time, the project was the second largest earth-moving project in the world – next only to the construction of the Panama Canal The total cost at the time was $63 Million CAD about $500 million today or 1.5 billion baht. Would any Thai government have been willing or able to build such a project? I don't think so. The Red River floodway was heavily protested and the Conservative Canadian provincial government that built it was ridiculed for decades until the great western floods occurred and then Duff Roblin's "wasteful folly" was celebrated as a miracle.

If there is a problem of flooding in Bangkok, everyone is responsible. .A floodway requires land expropriations. Try and expropriate land in Bangkok and see how far you get. Try and build large dykes and the protests from landowners and tenants will be violent. People are still protesting the runways at Swampy. A floodway must eventually be built. It is a case of avoiding a tough decision and paying for it later.

[JohnAllan]

A few comments about Bangkokians sharing the suffering. But where were these equal opportunities proponents last year, when much of Bangkok WAS flooded . . . by Redshirts?

Edited October 21, 2011 by JohnAllan

[DLock]

There is an irony in all of this for the Thai people that voted in this Government. If you vote people in to Government who have no experience, who are crooked, corrupt and self serving, then when the sh*t hits the fan, you have leaders with no experience, who are self serving and who will take advantage of the people and the situation. This country has the quality of Government it deserves, that is the one they voted for. I guess right now the few thousand baht made by red protestors last year and the money given to villages (on loan) by Thaksin doesn't really make up for the misery of the people in the North now.

The only saving grace is that this is not occurring under the Dems. My reason for sauying that is simple as there would likely follow a civil war when the likes of Juttaporn would be whipping the reds up in to a frenzy of violence with stories of how the elite are dry while the poor are left to suffer (I doubt Juttaporn has his wet suit on now!)

Maybe voting in a Government next time will, people will consider more than clearly impossible promises and bullsh*t. This Government is giving the Thai people all it has got .....nothing. I think the only man that can hold his head up higher because of his honest communications and warnings to the people is the Governor of Bangkok.

This doesn't have much to do with the current government. Every government that came before it for the last 25 years is responsible. I am not excusing the PM or PTP, but the decisions were made by people that included previous Democratic , military and previous incarnations of the PTP. Everyone ignored the problem.

There is only one major floodway in the world similar to what Bangkok needs.. This floodway has repeatedly saved a major city and surrounding industrial zones and it is called the Red River Floodway. Construction of the Floodway started in 1962 and finished in 1968. The construction was a major undertaking with 76.5 million cubic metres of earth excavated—more than what was moved for the Suez Canal At the time, the project was the second largest earth-moving project in the world – next only to the construction of the Panama Canal The total cost at the time was $63 Million CAD about $500 million today or 1.5 billion baht. Would any Thai government have been willing or able to build such a project? I don't think so. The Red River floodway was heavily protested and the Conservative Canadian provincial government that built it was ridiculed for decades until the great western floods occurred and then Duff Roblin's "wasteful folly" was celebrated as a miracle.

If there is a problem of flooding in Bangkok, everyone is responsible. .A floodway requires land expropriations. Try and expropriate land in Bangkok and see how far you get. Try and build large dykes and the protests from landowners and tenants will be violent. People are still protesting the runways at Swampy. A floodway must eventually be built. It is a case of avoiding a tough decision and paying for it later.

GK, I don't think you are getting it.

It's not about the flood. It is the way in which it has been managed and communicated and the decisions that have or haven't been made.

Look back over how many articles saying "Bangkok is safe", "The worst is over", "We can protect (insert industrial estate here)". This was Yinglucks statements. False or misleading at best.

Bangkok was always going to take some flooding just as every province from the North of Thailand has done in the last month. Thinking that they could somehow protect Bangkok with sandbags and earthen dykes was pure stupidity. The only thing they did was back the water up so much that it inundated major industrial estates and have caused massive economic damage to Thailand that will have repercussions. This was Yinglucks decision.

Not calling for a State of Emergency for a bad decision in my opinion. It would have given access to more manpower and assets, but Yingluck did not want to upset foreign investment.

Now she makes a decision to open certain floodgates and flood certain areas to relieve the pressure behind the sandbags. That decision is too late and is now seen as a bad decision by the people of Bangkok.

So, its not about the flood per se, its about the extremely poor decisions she has made, or hasn't made at the right times.

So, while your post discusses a problem that has existed and poorly dealt over successive governments, and I agree, this flood is here and now and requires leadership and intelligent decisions. It lacks both.

She has failed on every level, and while she does not shoulder the blame alone...she will be the scapegoat that history will judge as one of Thailands most incompetent leaders...and given Thailands history of leaders, that quite a feat.

[OzMick]

Rumoured that a charity concert is being organised to raise money for Thailand. Opening act is The Eagles singing a classic dedicated to the PM -

City girls just seem to find out early

How to open doors with just a smile

A rich old man

And she won't have to worry

She'll dress up all in lace and go in style

You can't hide your lyin' eyes

And your smile is a thin disguise

I thought by now you'd realize

There ain't no way to hide your lyin eyes

[fma]

There is an irony in all of this for the Thai people that voted in this Government. If you vote people in to Government who have no experience, who are crooked, corrupt and self serving, then when the sh*t hits the fan, you have leaders with no experience, who are self serving and who will take advantage of the people and the situation. This country has the quality of Government it deserves, that is the one they voted for. I guess right now the few thousand baht made by red protestors last year and the money given to villages (on loan) by Thaksin doesn't really make up for the misery of the people in the North now.

The only saving grace is that this is not occurring under the Dems. My reason for sauying that is simple as there would likely follow a civil war when the likes of Juttaporn would be whipping the reds up in to a frenzy of violence with stories of how the elite are dry while the poor are left to suffer (I doubt Juttaporn has his wet suit on now!)

Maybe voting in a Government next time will, people will consider more than clearly impossible promises and bullsh*t. This Government is giving the Thai people all it has got .....nothing. I think the only man that can hold his head up higher because of his honest communications and warnings to the people is the Governor of Bangkok.

That was a lot unsubstantiated opinions:

• The Governor of Bangkok is controlling the water management in BKK. Thus, he has been instrumental in blocking the water from the City and increasing the effects outside.
  It is quite clear that his priority has been to protect his voters, and he has not been a teamplayer on the national level.
• You slash down the government for being incompetent and corrupt, then in the next paragraph you admit the same flood situation would have occurred with the Dems in charge.
  If I were to apply some logic here, I would say that the incompetency of the government is not the reason for this crisis.
• Then you follow up with a speculation on what the red shirts would have done.
  We can turn this around and say that with the election behind us, we have a representative government and the majority understands this. Thus the risk of major unrest is reduced.

One observation: Most of the bitching about incompetency seem to come from the the people sitting high and dry in Bangkok.

This crisis is a result of long term (decades) poor planning.

National level water management is an administrative function by presumably competent personnel.

The ministers are not micro managing the opening and closing of the water reservoirs, but I guess the EGAT does.

More water in the dams means more potential for generating electricity and cash. Very tempting to fill up when the opportunity is there, and hope for fair weather when capacity is reached.

The initial strategy of protecting the capital was right, the means to implement turned out to be insufficient.

In hindsight the water should have been allowed to flow more freely from the start, the amount of water was just too huge to be kept back.

'From the start' means months ago, before the election.

The only criticism I will agree with, that targets this government in particular (as opposed to all governments in the last 50 years) is the poor information management.

Too many chiefs babbling at the same time. The information should have been more facts, less hope, more advice.

[rogerdee123]

I think most of the posts here have been spot on. The people of Bangkok should not be called names or blamed for the flooding up country. That flooding happened before the water reached Bangkok. Bangkok will hold some water but it will be insignificant for the presently flooded areas. The people in Bangkok were not on the streets protesting at the possibility of their floods they were around doing what they could to help the nation.

The important thing is that the river level is as high as possible. I don't think that has been done. Why was it possible to open sluice gates for Rangsit canal and reduce the flood threat in that area? Only possible if the river had spare capacity – if true (I don't have information to be sure) then that is scandalous. I hope what is being proposed is to raise the level of the river as high as possible without regard to the flooding that it will cause. Only that way will we see the water from the whole nation escape.

The decision to protect Bangkok was correct. More people live in the low lying areas of Bangkok than have been affected in the rest of the country. The area is full of computer centres and HQs that if incapacitated will paralyse the country. I hope that the time given to Bangkok so far has been used for building protection to the specific points that must be protected at all costs. That is hospitals, power stations, Computer centres...

If not then there will be chaos.

"The decision to protect Bangkok was correct. More people live in the low lying areas of Bangkok than have been affected in the rest of the country"

good point, there are some 12 mill people in BKK mostly outside of high rise towers. it would be carnage even if it were just a few feet.

I also agree with this 100%.

Although I think a flooded Bangkok cannot be avoided with this massive amount of water, it should be postponed for as long as possible. A flooded Bangkok will be an astronomical disaster for which the Govt is ill prepared to handle. It's better to have this huge disaster (in Bangkok) for a few days rather than a month.

I disagree with the notion that when a flood gate eventually breaks or a sandbag wall collapses that it will cause a huge tidal wave causing tremendous damage. This can only happen if they all break at the same time.

I believe that opening the flood gates as they are doing now will have almost zero positive effects on the areas around Bangkok that are already flooded and does not reduce the pressure on the gates or sandbags walls by any significant extent.

Edited October 21, 2011 by rogerdee123

[MunterHunter]

One observation: Most of the bitching about incompetency seem to come from the the people sitting high and dry in Bangkok.

And 80-something percent of Thai people polled earlier this week, and most of the people currently sat a few meters under water i suspect.

[robblok]

One observation: Most of the bitching about incompetency seem to come from the the people sitting high and dry in Bangkok.

And 80-something percent of Thai people polled earlier this week, and most of the people currently sat a few meters under water i suspect.

I'm flooded here and i rather see this government go then come. I don't blame them for the flooding, i do blame them for the information they give out and how fast the responded to begin with. Plus how they are handling it.

[rixalex]

One observation: Most of the bitching about incompetency seem to come from the the people sitting high and dry in Bangkok.

Another observation: Most of the "let's spread the blame for all this around as much as possible, and let's not focus so much on the job the current government are doing NOW, in terms of flood management and aid and assistance", seems to be coming from those with a history of red/PTP sympathising. The same people who would, you can guarantee, have been tearing into the "Bangkok elite" and the Dems, were they the ones at the helm right now, and were they too, like this government, making a complete hash of things.

[philw]

There is an irony in all of this for the Thai people that voted in this Government. If you vote people in to Government who have no experience, who are crooked, corrupt and self serving, then when the sh*t hits the fan, you have leaders with no experience, who are self serving and who will take advantage of the people and the situation. This country has the quality of Government it deserves, that is the one they voted for. I guess right now the few thousand baht made by red protestors last year and the money given to villages (on loan) by Thaksin doesn't really make up for the misery of the people in the North now.

The only saving grace is that this is not occurring under the Dems. My reason for sauying that is simple as there would likely follow a civil war when the likes of Juttaporn would be whipping the reds up in to a frenzy of violence with stories of how the elite are dry while the poor are left to suffer (I doubt Juttaporn has his wet suit on now!)

Maybe voting in a Government next time will, people will consider more than clearly impossible promises and bullsh*t. This Government is giving the Thai people all it has got .....nothing. I think the only man that can hold his head up higher because of his honest communications and warnings to the people is the Governor of Bangkok.

That was a lot unsubstantiated opinions:

• The Governor of Bangkok is controlling the water management in BKK. Thus, he has been instrumental in blocking the water from the City and increasing the effects outside.
  It is quite clear that his priority has been to protect his voters, and he has not been a teamplayer on the national level.
• You slash down the government for being incompetent and corrupt, then in the next paragraph you admit the same flood situation would have occurred with the Dems in charge.
  If I were to apply some logic here, I would say that the incompetency of the government is not the reason for this crisis.
• Then you follow up with a speculation on what the red shirts would have done.
  We can turn this around and say that with the election behind us, we have a representative government and the majority understands this. Thus the risk of major unrest is reduced.

One observation: Most of the bitching about incompetency seem to come from the the people sitting high and dry in Bangkok.

This crisis is a result of long term (decades) poor planning.

National level water management is an administrative function by presumably competent personnel.

The ministers are not micro managing the opening and closing of the water reservoirs, but I guess the EGAT does.

More water in the dams means more potential for generating electricity and cash. Very tempting to fill up when the opportunity is there, and hope for fair weather when capacity is reached.

The initial strategy of protecting the capital was right, the means to implement turned out to be insufficient.

In hindsight the water should have been allowed to flow more freely from the start, the amount of water was just too huge to be kept back.

'From the start' means months ago, before the election.

The only criticism I will agree with, that targets this government in particular (as opposed to all governments in the last 50 years) is the poor information management.

Too many chiefs babbling at the same time. The information should have been more facts, less hope, more advice.

Thank you fma for a calm, reasoned and truthful assessment.

No doubt to be ignored by the screeching Yingluck haters, but thanks anyway and good to know that there are people on TV capable of realistic assessments.

[rixalex]

Thank you fma for a calm, reasoned and truthful assessment.

No doubt to be ignored by the screeching Yingluck haters, but thanks anyway and good to know that there are people on TV capable of realistic assessments.

And as if to prove my point, along comes philw with his predictable endorsement of the "let's spread the blame" routine.

[Crushdepth]

I think most of the posts here have been spot on. The people of Bangkok should not be called names or blamed for the flooding up country. That flooding happened before the water reached Bangkok. Bangkok will hold some water but it will be insignificant for the presently flooded areas. The people in Bangkok were not on the streets protesting at the possibility of their floods they were around doing what they could to help the nation.

The important thing is that the river level is as high as possible. I don’t think that has been done. Why was it possible to open sluice gates for Rangsit canal and reduce the flood threat in that area? Only possible if the river had spare capacity – if true (I don’t have information to be sure) then that is scandalous. I hope what is being proposed is to raise the level of the river as high as possible without regard to the flooding that it will cause. Only that way will we see the water from the whole nation escape.

The decision to protect Bangkok was correct. More people live in the low lying areas of Bangkok than have been affected in the rest of the country. The area is full of computer centres and HQs that if incapacitated will paralyse the country. I hope that the time given to Bangkok so far has been used for building protection to the specific points that must be protected at all costs. That is hospitals, power stations, Computer centres...

If not then there will be chaos.

A lot of people who have been flooded out of their homes have sought shelter in 'dry' Bangkok. A lot of them work there too, so at least they still have jobs if not houses.

[mobiryder]

is this what it means to be up sh*t's creek without a paddle?

[PierreLoubignac]

One observation: Most of the bitching about incompetency seem to come from the the people sitting high and dry in Bangkok.

Another observation: Most of the "let's spread the blame for all this around as much as possible, and let's not focus so much on the job the current government are doing NOW, in terms of flood management and aid and assistance", seems to be coming from those with a history of red/PTP sympathising. The same people who would, you can guarantee, have been tearing into the "Bangkok elite" and the Dems, were they the ones at the helm right now, and were they too, like this government, making a complete hash of things.

It's extremely difficult to evaluate precisely if what is done NOW by the government is effective : especially right now.

Evaluation comes after the disaster, with opposition, with experts etc... Right now, as you say, it's only political talks.

[John1012]

There is an irony in all of this for the Thai people that voted in this Government. If you vote people in to Government who have no experience, who are crooked, corrupt and self serving, then when the sh*t hits the fan, you have leaders with no experience, who are self serving and who will take advantage of the people and the situation. This country has the quality of Government it deserves, that is the one they voted for. I guess right now the few thousand baht made by red protestors last year and the money given to villages (on loan) by Thaksin doesn't really make up for the misery of the people in the North now.

The only saving grace is that this is not occurring under the Dems. My reason for sauying that is simple as there would likely follow a civil war when the likes of Juttaporn would be whipping the reds up in to a frenzy of violence with stories of how the elite are dry while the poor are left to suffer (I doubt Juttaporn has his wet suit on now!)

Maybe voting in a Government next time will, people will consider more than clearly impossible promises and bullsh*t. This Government is giving the Thai people all it has got .....nothing. I think the only man that can hold his head up higher because of his honest communications and warnings to the people is the Governor of Bangkok.

That was a lot unsubstantiated opinions:

• The Governor of Bangkok is controlling the water management in BKK. Thus, he has been instrumental in blocking the water from the City and increasing the effects outside.
  It is quite clear that his priority has been to protect his voters, and he has not been a teamplayer on the national level.
• You slash down the government for being incompetent and corrupt, then in the next paragraph you admit the same flood situation would have occurred with the Dems in charge.
  If I were to apply some logic here, I would say that the incompetency of the government is not the reason for this crisis.
• Then you follow up with a speculation on what the red shirts would have done.
  We can turn this around and say that with the election behind us, we have a representative government and the majority understands this. Thus the risk of major unrest is reduced.

One observation: Most of the bitching about incompetency seem to come from the the people sitting high and dry in Bangkok.

This crisis is a result of long term (decades) poor planning.

National level water management is an administrative function by presumably competent personnel.

The ministers are not micro managing the opening and closing of the water reservoirs, but I guess the EGAT does.

More water in the dams means more potential for generating electricity and cash. Very tempting to fill up when the opportunity is there, and hope for fair weather when capacity is reached.

The initial strategy of protecting the capital was right, the means to implement turned out to be insufficient.

In hindsight the water should have been allowed to flow more freely from the start, the amount of water was just too huge to be kept back.

'From the start' means months ago, before the election.

The only criticism I will agree with, that targets this government in particular (as opposed to all governments in the last 50 years) is the poor information management.

Too many chiefs babbling at the same time. The information should have been more facts, less hope, more advice.

I agree. This is the result of long term mis management and lack of disaster management planning. Should have employed external consultants with experience years ago instead of relying on home grown incompetance and saving face. Now Thailand is heading for an economic downturn, not that this will effect the"elite" who control the country, I'm all right Jack.

[rixalex]

One observation: Most of the bitching about incompetency seem to come from the the people sitting high and dry in Bangkok.

Another observation: Most of the "let's spread the blame for all this around as much as possible, and let's not focus so much on the job the current government are doing NOW, in terms of flood management and aid and assistance", seems to be coming from those with a history of red/PTP sympathising. The same people who would, you can guarantee, have been tearing into the "Bangkok elite" and the Dems, were they the ones at the helm right now, and were they too, like this government, making a complete hash of things.

It's extremely difficult to evaluate precisely if what is done NOW by the government is effective : especially right now.

Evaluation comes after the disaster, with opposition, with experts etc... Right now, as you say, it's only political talks.

If mistakes are being made NOW, which most - besides the reds and the PTP steadfast supporters (see above) - agree are, better surely for people to speak up NOW, and stand a chance of them being rectified whilst it still makes a difference, than to wait weeks or months when it is all over, don't you think?

[Brucey7]

Guys, just a short note on volunteering and filling sandbags etc. Unless you have a work permit permitting this activity and with that specific location included, you cannot do it. PERIOD.

Just like the guy in Pattaya who raised half a million baht for charity (kids with HIV) and then had to get himself out of trouble the usual way when arrested.

[Bkkorupcountry]

There is an irony in all of this for the Thai people that voted in this Government. If you vote people in to Government who have no experience, who are crooked, corrupt and self serving, then when the sh*t hits the fan, you have leaders with no experience, who are self serving and who will take advantage of the people and the situation. This country has the quality of Government it deserves, that is the one they voted for. I guess right now the few thousand baht made by red protestors last year and the money given to villages (on loan) by Thaksin doesn't really make up for the misery of the people in the North now.

The only saving grace is that this is not occurring under the Dems. My reason for sauying that is simple as there would likely follow a civil war when the likes of Juttaporn would be whipping the reds up in to a frenzy of violence with stories of how the elite are dry while the poor are left to suffer (I doubt Juttaporn has his wet suit on now!)

Maybe voting in a Government next time will, people will consider more than clearly impossible promises and bullsh*t. This Government is giving the Thai people all it has got .....nothing. I think the only man that can hold his head up higher because of his honest communications and warnings to the people is the Governor of Bangkok.

That was a lot unsubstantiated opinions:

• The Governor of Bangkok is controlling the water management in BKK. Thus, he has been instrumental in blocking the water from the City and increasing the effects outside.
  It is quite clear that his priority has been to protect his voters, and he has not been a teamplayer on the national level.
• You slash down the government for being incompetent and corrupt, then in the next paragraph you admit the same flood situation would have occurred with the Dems in charge.
  If I were to apply some logic here, I would say that the incompetency of the government is not the reason for this crisis.
• Then you follow up with a speculation on what the red shirts would have done.
  We can turn this around and say that with the election behind us, we have a representative government and the majority understands this. Thus the risk of major unrest is reduced.

One observation: Most of the bitching about incompetency seem to come from the the people sitting high and dry in Bangkok.

This crisis is a result of long term (decades) poor planning.

National level water management is an administrative function by presumably competent personnel.

The ministers are not micro managing the opening and closing of the water reservoirs, but I guess the EGAT does.

More water in the dams means more potential for generating electricity and cash. Very tempting to fill up when the opportunity is there, and hope for fair weather when capacity is reached.

The initial strategy of protecting the capital was right, the means to implement turned out to be insufficient.

In hindsight the water should have been allowed to flow more freely from the start, the amount of water was just too huge to be kept back.

'From the start' means months ago, before the election.

The only criticism I will agree with, that targets this government in particular (as opposed to all governments in the last 50 years) is the poor information management.

Too many chiefs babbling at the same time. The information should have been more facts, less hope, more advice.

Best post I've ever read on TV.