Will Yingluck Give Precedence To Reconciliation Over Politics?

[animatic]

Righty O, so bringing down the national engine that drives the county's progress, is preferable as a method of "reconciliation"? It seems a nearsighted way to make the farmers happy, after their choosen leaders have so quickly screwed the pooch over their interests.

[Siam Simon]

Off topic posts deleted. If you REALLY wanted to help you could easily donate to the Thai Red Cross or some of the many bank accounts set up by the Thai govt, etc, instead of attempting to stir here.

Here are just a few:

http://www.redcross.or.th/old/english/donation/moneydonate_internet.php?sc=0046&insertflag=1

http://www.nationmultimedia.com/national/Food-donations-sought-30168108.html

Prime Minister's Office

Bank: Krung Thai Bank, Government House sub-branch

Account Name: PM's Office's Relief Fund for Flood Victims

Account Number: 067-0-06895-0

Public Health Ministry

Bank: Siam Commercial Bank

Account Name: Public Health Ministry for Flood Victims

Account Number: 340-2-11600-7

For more information, call 02-590-7104-5, 02-590-7196

And why not try to return to the topic without the hyperbole, aggressiveness, nastiness and all the other components that are hallmarks of these threads and the denizens who frequent them.

That is Post Of The Week, no question sbk.

[serenitynow]

Actually, Moe never mentioned red shirt "mainstream" media.

It's always interesting that "The Nation" has an agenda, until it prints a red shirt slanted article, of course.

that's funny - when WAS the last article favorable to the PTP, UDD, that was written by the Nation?

Once in a very, very rare while, they publish something from a guest writer which does not follow their normal story-line.

Now if you are trying to say that The Nation does NOT have an agenda, then, ... well, OK, .... I'll disagree with that.

- no it was not Moe, as I wrote, it was qualtrough. And I add my name to that list, because I don't know of any mainstream red media outlets that are like The Nation or the other daily. As mentioned in the reply to Animatic, maybe the UDD don't think they need such a media source. As he said, maybe the UDD just targets Thais, but there again, I don't know of a Thail-language mass-media outlet, either.

Obviously the UDD has its own cheerleaders / media - but mainstream ?

I'm looking for information - so if you guys have some good examples, that would be great. If it's just Red Power, and Voice, etc, that is OK too.

I'm not sure what you consider mainstream. Every newstand that I see The Nation displayed at I also see Voice Of Taksin and other Red publications. I don't have any facts to back it up but I would guess their readership is multiples of what The Nation enjoys.

That's fair input.

Mainstream are the NYT, IHT, Le Monde, Time, Newsweek, for newspapers/journals, mainstream TV, like Fox News / MSNBC, those kind of things in a Thai equivalent.

Where I see The Nation and The BKK Post, the focus is on English speakers, so the 2 are sitting next to the IHT and the like. This gives the 2 the impression of being mainstream dailies in Thailand. Like I said, in the English speaking world, I haven't seen it yet, but that may be for a lack of perceived need, or as Animatic alluded, on purpose.

And I would imagine that non-mainstream newspapers in Thailand still have a larger circulation than The Nation due to language.

(ps: as much as WE care about it, I imagine that none of the English-language news outlets is significant or important to Thai society... The only significant purpose is to serve as a reference to the international community which requires English language news. This is why I disagree with Animatic that the UDD doesn't need to target the English media wrt to their own marketing efforts)

There are no Thai equivalent to those media sources you name. This is an insular society and what media there is all has a point of view. Usually that of the ownership, whether it be public or private. That said you can discern some truths here if you cast a wide enough net and are prepared to read things that don't necessarily agree with your already held views (by your I don't mean YOU, but we).

As an aside I would also point out that those mainstream media outlets you note often get things wrong about what goes on in Thailand. They do have the extra advantage of bringing the monarchy into the storyline, but they often get that wrong too.

Take last year for example, CNN and The Economist gave horrible representations of what was going on here during the occupation and subsequent riots. It made me call into question everything I'd ever seen them report on. What was that quote animatic posted earlier "I think the media does a good job of reporting events on a factual basis, except for those events I've witnessed personally". Something like that

The truth is, local rags, boith Thai and English do a bettter job of reporting what goes on here than does the international "mainstream" media. You need to be a long time consumer of this crap however to read between the lines, disregard hyperbole, understand which papers support which parties, etc. As screwed up as it is it is a whole lot better than when Thaksin was buying up publications, suing others into near bankruptcy, and being punitive with government ad monies to any paper that dared to judge him.

[TAWP]

And will some vested interests stop using their media outlets to spread disunity, discord and pettiness?

Agree, it will be a nice day when Voice TV and a multitude of Red Shirt radio stations didn't take it as their sole goal to be a Propaganda tool for a TS and perhaps worked for the better good if the nation.

[TAWP]

tlansford>> I'll leave it up to steveromagino and others to name publications that exist here, since I cannot spell half of them, but if you want to know one big daily that was exposed as being paid to post positive headlines about PT - and if you look back posted only positive headldines about PT up and until the election, then check out Thai Rath. They are as Mainstream as a paper can get in Thailand.

Add to that that just like the the right in the US has a clear majority of the radio stations, the clear number here, due to a lot of investments by some families, are Red Shirt aligned. That is how you reach a lot of people [that don't read newspapers].

[hammered]

Reconcilliation over politics means allowing water to flow through BKK to the sea and nbot doing a Sukhumband

Governor Sukhumband was elected to take care of Bangkok. Seems he was just trying to do that. Others seem a bit more confused. FROC has just refuted to have issued a warning for Bangkokians to move belongings to high ground at least 1 metre after the government had ordered all water gates open to drain excess water to the sea. Strangely enough that just what PM Yingluck said on television on Saturday. The governor was the one to order evacuation of 27 communities after the order.

"Doing a Sukhumband' means doing the right thing it seems

The governor it seems has been giving the two fingers to the people of Ayuthaya ect who admittedly didnt elect him. Doing the right thing> Hmmm. He is hated even by the Democrat party and after what he has done as exposed by Samut Prakarn.......

[thaicbr]

Reconcilliation over politics means allowing water to flow through BKK to the sea and nbot doing a Sukhumband

Governor Sukhumband was elected to take care of Bangkok. Seems he was just trying to do that. Others seem a bit more confused. FROC has just refuted to have issued a warning for Bangkokians to move belongings to high ground at least 1 metre after the government had ordered all water gates open to drain excess water to the sea. Strangely enough that just what PM Yingluck said on television on Saturday. The governor was the one to order evacuation of 27 communities after the order.

"Doing a Sukhumband' means doing the right thing it seems

The governor it seems has been giving the two fingers to the people of Ayuthaya ect who admittedly didnt elect him. Doing the right thing> Hmmm. He is hated even by the Democrat party and after what he has done as exposed by Samut Prakarn.......

What exactly has he done???? Maybe the Samar prakhan issue has more to do with flood gates outside his control. Which according to you he should get the blame for. Or maybe the canal flood defence is not finished yet. Remember it was only 6 days ago that FROC said the worst was over .... and it wasn't.

[DP25]

What exactly has he done????

Nothing except follow the flood plan which has always been to divert water around central Bangkok. He's mainly guilty of the crime of making the government look incompetent. This is just an attempt to spin blame for flooding in Ayuthaya and other towns away from the chosen one and his proxy party. Now the propaganda machine will try to spin that the flooding 200km north of Bangkok was the result of water backing up because of the evil democrat governor (who even the Democrats hate). The fact is that by the time the flood water reached northern BKK places north had been flooded weeks and the government was incompetent in responding to it.

Edited October 23, 2011 by DP25

[ThaiOats]

If she wants reconciliation, just resign and tell the Shinawatras to live a rich happy life out of politics. The divide is explicitly between pro and anti-Thaksin without beating around the bush for "Democracy" since hardly anyone understands what it really is. So those who can admit that they're Pro-Red/Thaksin, I have several questions for the lot of you.

What are your reasons for supporting Thaksin? Be specific please, what has he done for you and your family.

If you were a citizen in another country, would you continue to support a leader knowing that he/she has cheated the country in order to benefit him/herself?

What wrong did the Democrats do to you, your family and the Reds to be against them? (Don't bring up the killing of unarmed citizens during the protest, rather I want to know WHY people left their homes and decided to protest)

Do you agree with this government appointing convicts and violent, unqualified people to lead the country?

There's are reasons why there's so much hatred for Thaksin and those are the reasons I can understand from my point of view. I still don't understand why people support him, thus I'm trying to get an understanding here and would love some people to enlighten some of us. For example, whether you agree with me or not, money buys a lot of things: death, luxury, love, power, etc.

If I meet someone for the first time, my initial impression would be neutral. If the person gives me something and asks for nothing in return, then more than likely I'll have a positive attitude. Now what would make me dislike a person if he hasn't done anything wrong? There's got to be a reason, otherwise the fault would be with me for being an arse. Why are there Anti-Thaksins and not Anti-Anand Panyarachun?

Edited October 23, 2011 by ThaiOats

[whybother]

The governor it seems has been giving the two fingers to the people of Ayuthaya ect who admittedly didnt elect him. Doing the right thing> Hmmm. He is hated even by the Democrat party and after what he has done as exposed by Samut Prakarn.......

It seems that Sukhumband is doing exactly what FROC want to do.

As Bangkok is the country’s most important economic area, measures have been implemented to protect the city from flooding.

[OzMick]

Reconcilliation over politics means allowing water to flow through BKK to the sea and nbot doing a Sukhumband

Governor Sukhumband was elected to take care of Bangkok. Seems he was just trying to do that. Others seem a bit more confused. FROC has just refuted to have issued a warning for Bangkokians to move belongings to high ground at least 1 metre after the government had ordered all water gates open to drain excess water to the sea. Strangely enough that just what PM Yingluck said on television on Saturday. The governor was the one to order evacuation of 27 communities after the order.

"Doing a Sukhumband' means doing the right thing it seems

The governor it seems has been giving the two fingers to the people of Ayuthaya ect who admittedly didnt elect him. Doing the right thing> Hmmm. He is hated even by the Democrat party and after what he has done as exposed by Samut Prakarn.......

How much faster will the water in Ayuthaya drain if Bangkok is flooded? Most of that water has to be PUMPED OUT. If the pumps are running at full capacity, what purpose does it serve to have groundwater adding more people to those in misery?

The canals and Chao Praya are still flowing, and that is where the majority of water will exit.

[sbk]

This is an interesting article:

http://www.mcot.net/cfcustom/cache_page/284528.html

Especially this part:

If flooding hits Bangkok’s business areas, the damage could climb another 120 billion baht per month, as the capital’s Gross Domestic Product (GDP) is about one trillion baht each year.

Annual GDP for the entire nation:

GDP (2010 prelim.): $317 billion or 9.83 trillion Baht.

[rogerdee123]

Reconcilliation over politics means allowing water to flow through BKK to the sea and nbot doing a Sukhumband

Governor Sukhumband was elected to take care of Bangkok. Seems he was just trying to do that. Others seem a bit more confused. FROC has just refuted to have issued a warning for Bangkokians to move belongings to high ground at least 1 metre after the government had ordered all water gates open to drain excess water to the sea. Strangely enough that just what PM Yingluck said on television on Saturday. The governor was the one to order evacuation of 27 communities after the order.

"Doing a Sukhumband' means doing the right thing it seems

The governor it seems has been giving the two fingers to the people of Ayuthaya ect who admittedly didnt elect him. Doing the right thing> Hmmm. He is hated even by the Democrat party and after what he has done as exposed by Samut Prakarn.......

How much faster will the water in Ayuthaya drain if Bangkok is flooded? Most of that water has to be PUMPED OUT. If the pumps are running at full capacity, what purpose does it serve to have groundwater adding more people to those in misery?

The canals and Chao Praya are still flowing, and that is where the majority of water will exit.

OzMick you are 100% correct. But they aren't listening.

Also it's worth repeating that the Chaopraya has never been blocked ... it's been draining water as usual as it always does. The claims that the BMA is "blocking" the flood run-off are idiotic.

Finally .... the Chaopraya floods Bangkok almost every year, sometimes causing significant loss and misery. Has there ever been a call for those upstream to "share Bangkok's flood" during those times?

[animatic]

This is an interesting article:

http://www.mcot.net/...age/284528.html

Especially this part:

If flooding hits Bangkok's business areas, the damage could climb another 120 billion baht per month, as the capital's Gross Domestic Product (GDP) is about one trillion baht each year.

Annual GDP for the entire nation:

GDP (2010 prelim.): $317 billion or 9.83 trillion Baht.

It raises the question:

If you don't draw the line somewhere to protect the most productive areas of the economic engine, at the expense of other segments, then WHERE WILL THE MONEY COME FROM TO REBUILD?

They've screwed up most of the large northern industrial estates, now many propose flooding the business parts of Bangkok to... 'to be fair', 'to share the pain' to help people who have homes and such.

While it is more than just easy to be sympathetic to those losing their homes and small businesses, the bottom line is;

Bangkok is the point of connection for Thailand and the world economy.Destroy that connection for a month or more and what happens?

No gross domestic product gets to market,

no suplies come in to restart business,

and international companies will decide to go elsewhere,

since even their foot on the ground to restart is being

thrown out like the baby with the bathwater.

There is much more at stake than these simple things I list above. Fairness needs to look beyond the individual neighborhoods and at the whole of the nations short and long term interests and recovery strategies.

Edited October 24, 2011 by animatic

[animatic]

Governor Sukhumband is the most visible Democrat, or 'non-aligned with Thaksin player' to actually take a strong hand in this flooding, which makes him the perfect lightning rod for enemies to throw lighting bolts of propaganda at.

Throw enough mud and some sticks, if you can muddy the waters enough to make your side seem less culpable for their ineptitude, and spin the blame else where, is it a classic survival strategy. And this has gone so far that it has become a 'heads will roll' survival game for the leadership.

Edited October 24, 2011 by animatic

[whybother]

PM Yingluck to invite Bkk gov Sukhumbhand to participate in flood management committee meeting this afternoon. /TAN_Network

Why hasn't he been invited earlier?

[animatic]

PM Yingluck to invite Bkk gov Sukhumbhand to participate in flood management committee meeting this afternoon. /TAN_Network

Why hasn't he been invited earlier?

1 ) Why wasn't he invited day 1?

2 ) hy is the Justice Minister in charge of FROC,

and not the specialists inRivers, Irrigation and Watershed Management???

This 2nd is the most pungent question,

as in it the answer really STINKS.

[hyperdimension]

PM Yingluck to invite Bkk gov Sukhumbhand to participate in flood management committee meeting this afternoon. /TAN_Network

Why hasn't he been invited earlier?

He should be part of the flood management committee in the first place and not need to be "invited" as if he is a special guest.

[hyperdimension]

I still don't understand why people support him

I think many are shareholders in Shinawatra-controlled companies like SC Asset.

[serenitynow]

I still don't understand why people support him

Because they think he has the money and power and ruthlessness to come out on top and there's no money to be made playing the other side of that combination. Like all things Thai, I think that's a rather short sighted view.

[ThaiOats]

I still don't understand why people support him

Because they think he has the money and power and ruthlessness to come out on top and there's no money to be made playing the other side of that combination. Like all things Thai, I think that's a rather short sighted view.

While it's easy to make assumptions, I would like to hear it from the TVF red/Thaksin supporters to get a clear understanding, at least from this small community. This small community which probably won't have much effect on this political game but at least it would help out future discussions. If people (TV posters) are supporting Thaksin without giving a clear reason as to why, then we'll just end up accusing each other of being biased.

I went to Robert Amsterdam's blog and concluded that isince he's being paid to write and protect the Reds, then it wouldn't do if he were to write anything negative. So I'll just disregard whatever he has to say because he's hired to be bias. I'm curious about Nick Nostitz's book and thinking about ordering it to read it myself.

[Crushdepth]

PM Yingluck to invite Bkk gov Sukhumbhand to participate in flood management committee meeting this afternoon. /TAN_Network

Why hasn't he been invited earlier?

Because they are starting to panic now - and he's the only guy with a plan that might work.

[animatic]

I still don't understand why people support him

Because they think he has the money and power and ruthlessness to come out on top and there's no money to be made playing the other side of that combination. Like all things Thai, I think that's a rather short sighted view.

Barramee, sans morality.

A potent mix in a Thai demi-god.

[animatic]

PM Yingluck to invite Bkk gov Sukhumbhand to participate in flood management committee meeting this afternoon. /TAN_Network

Why hasn't he been invited earlier?

Because they are starting to panic now - and he's the only guy with a plan that might work.

And just after the wrested control back from him rather LOUDLY, they whole mess became utterly unmanageable. Better to spread the blame to someone on the opposing political side. Keep your friends close and your enemies closer. .

[hammered]

The interesting reconcilliation related development of this disaster has been how as time has gone on the army and government seem to have started working better together and publically agreeing. Gen. Prayuth dismissed the calls for an SOE today, which firmly moves him away from democrat demands. Maybe something good will come out of the adversity of present.

I dont think too many Thai people or even the government and army are debating the finer points of Thaksin right now by the way. There are more pressing issues and Thaksin is almost as quiet as Abhisit seems to have gone in the last couple of days. Maybe they are sharing cocktails on a nice Maldives beach or something

[thaicbr]

The interesting reconcilliation related development of this disaster has been how as time has gone on the army and government seem to have started working better together and publically agreeing. Gen. Prayuth dismissed the calls for an SOE today, which firmly moves him away from democrat demands. Maybe something good will come out of the adversity of present.

I dont think too many Thai people or even the government and army are debating the finer points of Thaksin right now by the way. There are more pressing issues and Thaksin is almost as quiet as Abhisit seems to have gone in the last couple of days. Maybe they are sharing cocktails on a nice Maldives beach or something

What with Chalerm Yoobumrung?

[rubl]

The interesting reconcilliation related development of this disaster has been how as time has gone on the army and government seem to have started working better together and publically agreeing. Gen. Prayuth dismissed the calls for an SOE today, which firmly moves him away from democrat demands. Maybe something good will come out of the adversity of present.

I dont think too many Thai people or even the government and army are debating the finer points of Thaksin right now by the way. There are more pressing issues and Thaksin is almost as quiet as Abhisit seems to have gone in the last couple of days. Maybe they are sharing cocktails on a nice Maldives beach or something

Please pay a bit more attention to various newsflashes and links provided in this forum:

K. Abhisit already returned on the 23rd by PG712, flight number provided care of Pheu Thai UDD leader MP Nattawut Saikua.

http://asiancorrespondent.com/67863/while-the-thai-media-lie-is-abhisit-holidaying-in-the-maldives/

[hammered]

The interesting reconcilliation related development of this disaster has been how as time has gone on the army and government seem to have started working better together and publically agreeing. Gen. Prayuth dismissed the calls for an SOE today, which firmly moves him away from democrat demands. Maybe something good will come out of the adversity of present.

I dont think too many Thai people or even the government and army are debating the finer points of Thaksin right now by the way. There are more pressing issues and Thaksin is almost as quiet as Abhisit seems to have gone in the last couple of days. Maybe they are sharing cocktails on a nice Maldives beach or something

Please pay a bit more attention to various newsflashes and links provided in this forum:

K. Abhisit already returned on the 23rd by PG712, flight number provided care of Pheu Thai UDD leader MP Nattawut Saikua.

http://asiancorrespondent.com/67863/while-the-thai-media-lie-is-abhisit-holidaying-in-the-maldives/

I will change the tense to shared a cocktail on the beaches of the Maldives then.

Edited to add: I didnt realise that Thai Rath had run the story. Ouch

Edited October 24, 2011 by hammered

[thaicbr]

The interesting reconcilliation related development of this disaster has been how as time has gone on the army and government seem to have started working better together and publically agreeing. Gen. Prayuth dismissed the calls for an SOE today, which firmly moves him away from democrat demands. Maybe something good will come out of the adversity of present.

I dont think too many Thai people or even the government and army are debating the finer points of Thaksin right now by the way. There are more pressing issues and Thaksin is almost as quiet as Abhisit seems to have gone in the last couple of days. Maybe they are sharing cocktails on a nice Maldives beach or something

Please pay a bit more attention to various newsflashes and links provided in this forum:

K. Abhisit already returned on the 23rd by PG712, flight number provided care of Pheu Thai UDD leader MP Nattawut Saikua.

http://asiancorrespo...n-the-maldives/

I would have thought that the more obvious people to be looking for would be Chalerm and the other likely lads as they seem absent as well. And they are ACTUALLY part of the government.

[rubl]

The interesting reconcilliation related development of this disaster has been how as time has gone on the army and government seem to have started working better together and publically agreeing. Gen. Prayuth dismissed the calls for an SOE today, which firmly moves him away from democrat demands. Maybe something good will come out of the adversity of present.

I dont think too many Thai people or even the government and army are debating the finer points of Thaksin right now by the way. There are more pressing issues and Thaksin is almost as quiet as Abhisit seems to have gone in the last couple of days. Maybe they are sharing cocktails on a nice Maldives beach or something

Please pay a bit more attention to various newsflashes and links provided in this forum:

K. Abhisit already returned on the 23rd by PG712, flight number provided care of Pheu Thai UDD leader MP Nattawut Saikua.

http://asiancorrespondent.com/67863/while-the-thai-media-lie-is-abhisit-holidaying-in-the-maldives/

I will change the tense to shared a cocktail on the beaches of the Maldives then.

Edited to add: I didnt realise that Thai Rath had run the story. Ouch

Actually I got the link from a post by our mutual friend whybother today and it may have been triggered by a twitter message from Oak/Panthongtae posted in frodo's post a bit before

As I said, please do pay attention here