Foreign Investors Furious With Thai Govt Response To Flooding

[Orgathai]

If you buildt your billion dollar factory on flood-land, believe the guy who takes you out for drinks and hookers at Nana that "no flood there" and you don't bring in your own experts to check on the risk: NOT MY PROBLEM!

1000 % agree, they get almost free land, and probably cheap loans to construct factories in floodable areas!!

[torin]

Where is the Army when we need them

Dont know where the army is, but the US Navy fleet is heading back out from the Gulf of Thailand with its aircraft carrier and escorts with its fleet of helicopters and all of the emergency aid that the flortilla was carrying for Bangkok, seems the US needed an official SOS call for help to begin with emergency assistance, one from the government and one from the military, but could only get one yes and one no which means its a no-go and away the navy sails into the horizon, amazing Thailand never stops amazing me.

[Payboy]

If you buildt your billion dollar factory on flood-land, believe the guy who takes you out for drinks and hookers at Nana that "no flood there" and you don't bring in your own experts to check on the risk: NOT MY PROBLEM!

1000 % agree, they get almost free land, and probably cheap loans to construct factories in floodable areas!!

And not to forget that 8 year tax holiday carrot.

[HAL9000]

The size of the flood is beyond human means to stop or control. The current government cannot be blamed for that.

What has become evident, however, is that quality control and maintenance of flood control facilities has been inadequate. This is spread over several governments in the past.

Design of flood defenses has come into question. Could Western engineers, such as the Dutch, have made better designs? This is unknown without an engineering review of the flood defenses. In Yingluck's defense, she has been speaking of the need to make long-term improvements in flood planning since the very first floods started in the North.

What is also evident in the current situation is that temporary embankments have been made with enthusiasm, but not with good engineering supervision. Does Thailand lack this knowledge?

Projections of flood management have been overoptimistic. Does Thailand lack the skills to do the modeling and projection? Could a Western country have made more accurate projections? I don't know.

[beppi]

Why were these large industrial estates given permission to develop / start up in their current locations, surely some internal agencies should have said the locations were not suitable (example Thai BOE).

And surely there are locations which would be higher and above flood risks, are accessible by transport and infrastructure needs, close to towns etc.

You expect people sitting in a capital that is (on average) 80cm above sea level and less than 40cm above the nearby river to be able to judge these risks properly?!?

If they could, they would be elsewhere!!!

[ramrod711]

The reason why it was built was because the financial incentives and profit margins must be huge to take the risk. That's why the Japanese government is willing to spend money on reconstruction costs to aid the factories underwater. The profit margin must be enormous.

i'm in complete agreement, build your factory in an emerging nation with a reputation for corruption.......don't expect the services and protections you get in japan

[animatic]

The way I read this is:

Japanese Business to Thai Government: You screwed up. You cost us lots of money. You owe us, or we take our business elsewhere.

Look for a huge 'Foreign Business Relief Fund' to be financed with our tax money- yup, yet again, taking money away from where it should really be spent (should have been spent months ago). Hope the folks out in the provinces don't mind.

Of course not, they will blame the Democrats and the army.

They've started up that spin days ago.

Edited October 25, 2011 by animatic

[animatic]

Comparing the build up of flooding since July to an earthquake or sunami is not the same. The businesses were asking way back if there was a chance of flooding in the area, and the authorities said "NO". If your international company invests millions of dollars in a plant, you expect some support from the government. ---But (in my opinion) after living in Thailand, I would never trust any government official having things under control --- Thais are not that pro-active in preventing tragedies or accidents. You wait for the problem then hope it goes away (with a smile). The Japanese should have known about this cultural trait.

How are they different? The worst monsoons in 70 years hit in the north, both natural disasters. The Japanese carefully studied tsunamis of their past and were thought of as being the best in preventative measures in the world. Still that preparedness did not prevent the water going over the tsunami walls.

Even the thai's when building a new hotel or apartment house put down at least a 1 meter fill to be above street level.

The biggest risk to building in that part of thailand would be flooding. This is not rocket science.

Except there is precedent for these big floods in the life times of many in power presently or their advisors.

Plus there was MONTHS to deal with this before it hit Ayuthaiya and then Bangkok.

They have had decades to study this and they have many ways that have worked in the past,

floods yes, but nothing was allowed to get so bad, because they were drained off earlier and more evenly.

but THIS TIME, were they utterly unable to deal with this till it arrived?

A Earthquake and Tsunami of such proportions as Japans,

or a cat 5 Hurricane hitting New Orleans SQAURE ON were things with much less time for ANY preparations

Japan had minutes, N.O. had days, even if the army CoE had been trying for decades to upgrade the dikes.

But there really is no comparison if you consider the time lag between actions and consequences for these floods.

[SICHONSTEVE]

PM Yingluck Declines To Declare SOE For Fear Of Affecting Foreign Investors Confidence

http://www.thaivisa....ors-confidence/

Now that foreign investors confidence is gone, will Yingluck be declaring a SOE?

If its the right and sensible thing to do - then NO she won't!!!.

[SICHONSTEVE]

How are they different? The worst monsoons in 70 years hit in the north, both natural disasters. The Japanese carefully studied tsunamis of their past and were thought of as being the best in preventative measures in the world. Still that preparedness did not prevent the water going over the tsunami walls.

Even the thai's when building a new hotel or apartment house put down at least a 1 meter fill to be above street level.

The biggest risk to building in that part of thailand would be flooding. This is not rocket science.

The Japanese planned for tsunamis, they just didn't plan for a huge one.

The Thais planned for flooding, they just didn't plan for a big one.

The difference is, when the huge tsunami hit Japan, there was (as good as) no warning that it was going to hit, whereas in Thailand, the government knew there was going to be a big flood hitting central Thailand and particularly Bangkok for nearly a month.

A month is a short time in politics in Thailand (for Pheu Thai, anyway):jap:.

[tlansford]

Foreign Investors Furious with The Govt's Response to Flooding

Do you remember TAN getting their hand slapped by the UN for misquoting people?

Nice article, 100% paraphrased. Not a real quotation in the piece.

Some quotes here but the translations are a bit rough.

As for this article, the main japanese mentioned is an economist from a japanese business lobby. Take that for what it is worth. The corporations are already jockeying for a place in line for their recovery money. The japanese corporations want to be first in line.

Clearly the multinationals will be taking care of themselves. Standard Operating Procedures.

[robertson468]

Where is the Army when we need them

Policy decisions are made at Government level, who direct the Army what to do. At least, that is what should happen, except here it is all too little, too late. Many have been saying this on this forum for some time and now it is now being echoed by external investors. Thailand's troubles might not only be cascading water, but a cascading exodus of blue chip Companies who must be amazed at the dithering incompetence of the present lawmakers, although one wonders if the previous incumbents would have done any better?

[metisdead]

An insult and baiting post has been removed.

[Chopperboy]

The reason foreign companies are in these industrial parks is because they are BOI (Board of Investment)duty free zones. There was no out right requirement to be in these parks, but years ago it looked like the safe option. Safe from the perspective of security of energy supply, security in general, import without customs problems etc..

The downsides are now only too obvious.

[cloudhopper]

Regardless of how "furious" investors might be, and regardless of any future government incentives for them to return, it is far from impossible that many will not simply because there is not sufficient global demand and a perfect opportunity to be paid by an insurance company to downsize.

[djlest]

Everything BAD that happens in/to Thailand - excluding the Tsunami

Is usually from their own Thainess!

To have so many disasters year after year is only due to their inability to reason, communicate, and LEARN from others - that just may know more than them!

[serenitynow]

Foreign Investors Furious with The Govt's Response to Flooding

Do you remember TAN getting their hand slapped by the UN for misquoting people?

Nice article, 100% paraphrased. Not a real quotation in the piece.

Some quotes here but the translations are a bit rough.

As for this article, the main japanese mentioned is an economist from a japanese business lobby. Take that for what it is worth. The corporations are already jockeying for a place in line for their recovery money. The japanese corporations want to be first in line.

Clearly the multinationals will be taking care of themselves. Standard Operating Procedures.

The loan "facilitators" meanwhile, are having their emergency management headquarters flooded.

[klaus303]

Now, I never posted much on Thaivisa before but has been following Thaivisa forums for the last couple of years.

I dont have much opinion on what is right or wrong in this country, even I am somewhat amused of the many bitter sweet comments that are posted here.

Like a love-hate relationship to the country that so many of us has decided to be expats in.

The reason I post a comment now is because I was quite taken by surprise by a article from the Danish news.

Im Danish and if there is anything Danish people or news media know about Thailand it is restricted to Vacation and Holiday only.

However a Meteorologist from the Danish news explained why and how Thailand end up in this flood situation. It was all very technical but I have no doubt this "professor type" did the right explanation.

Im not going to recite any of that :-)

But bottom line and his conclusion was (even though a quite one) that the Thai authorities should/would have known 1-2 months ago that it would come to this flooding - inevitable. No blaming or complaning from him. No mention of a Thaksin, Abhisit, Democrat, Red Shirt, Yellow shirt or anything - just plain facts.

According to the Meteorologist it was simply a matter of mathematics.

So this is where I really felt sad, and maybe that my start of bitter-sweet comments on this forum. Even I hope not.

Edited October 25, 2011 by klaus303

[svenivan]

How are they different? The worst monsoons in 70 years hit in the north, both natural disasters.

Where is this coming from? Worst monsoons in 70 years? Nonsense!

The flooding is man-maid! They had too much water in the dams too early!

They had alltime high in Bhumipol dam already end of August!

[PaulHamon]

Didn't someone say, "Forewarned is forearmed". I guess they've never heard of that in Thailand

[markt7081]

Companies want to come to a "developing country" to take advantage/exploit cheap labour.

Then they have the cheek to complain that the Govt & Infrastructure are not upto the "high" standards of their own countries.

In a developed country, you can have a natural disaster, set off a nuclear pollution problem, thats OK, as long as you apologise after.

Then you can launch an appeal & beg for money through your retail chains from a poor Thais to support the worlds 3rd largest economy.

Really these sorts of people ought to accept some responsibility,

You decided to come here, you did not take into account possible problems.

You should say sorry to your shareholders & fall on your sword.

Not blame others.

Disgusting double standards & absolute arrogance.

[dominique355]

If you buildt your billion dollar factory on flood-land, believe the guy who takes you out for drinks and hookers at Nana that "no flood there" and you don't bring in your own experts to check on the risk: NOT MY PROBLEM!

A bit short-sighted, don't you think?

What about all the workers laid off and their families?

What about the suppliers, their workers and families?

What about future investments in Thailand?

This kind of industry-hostile attitude is rather selfish.

[Babcock]

Where is the Army when we need them

Dont know where the army is, but the US Navy fleet is heading back out from the Gulf of Thailand with its aircraft carrier and escorts with its fleet of helicopters and all of the emergency aid that the flortilla was carrying for Bangkok, seems the US needed an official SOS call for help to begin with emergency assistance, one from the government and one from the military, but could only get one yes and one no which means its a no-go and away the navy sails into the horizon, amazing Thailand never stops amazing me.

So was it the army that turned them away? Lack of cordination one wonders.

Thailand needs all the help it can get at the moment. They're all arguing amongst thmeselves.

Wages in Malaysia are 3 times what they are here. The japanese won't go there and you get these thai aademics coming on the media and saying that as a consequence of the flooding the 300 baht minimum wage should be scrapped.

Paid lackeys.

[philw]

Companies want to come to a "developing country" to take advantage/exploit cheap labour.

Then they have the cheek to complain that the Govt & Infrastructure are not upto the "high" standards of their own countries.

In a developed country, you can have a natural disaster, set off a nuclear pollution problem, thats OK, as long as you apologise after.

Then you can launch an appeal & beg for money through your retail chains from a poor Thais to support the worlds 3rd largest economy.

Really these sorts of people ought to accept some responsibility,

You decided to come here, you did not take into account possible problems.

You should say sorry to your shareholders & fall on your sword.

Not blame others.

Disgusting double standards & absolute arrogance.

Nice one and true.

First line is brilliant and sums up the problem.

Well said.

[EarthAlien]

Where is the Army when we need them

Hamstrung by the governments unwillingness to declare a SOE!

[geriatrickid]

Where is the Army when we need them

They are deployed. What exactly do you want personnel that are equipped with tanks and armaments to do when klongs are clogged with weeds and garbage and when storm runoff is at historic highs? How many times does it need to be stated that the personnel most appropriate were deployed since the start of the flooding. The problems we are seeing are all about planning and infrastructure and are the result of decades of poor preparation, maintenance and planning.

[qualtrough]

These CEOs didn't do any kind of due diligence when making the decision to locate at these sites. If they had, THEY would have known that their factories were in vulnerable locations, and that the flood defenses to protect their investments were non-existent to poor. Anyone who accepted the word of ANY government that things will be just fine has only themselves to blame. The Japanese are smarter than that, so this is the equivalent of a Thai kicking the dog when they get upset.

Furthermore, given that the flooding is now the worst since 1942, it is hardly fair to blame the new government for this situation. If the Democrats had some plan to deal with this and a track record of preventive planning as far as floods I would love to hear it. It would have been beyond the ability of any government to have marshaled all the resources necessary to deal with this massive flooding, the worst in living memory (unless you are over 80) within 2 months, or even two years. This is the result of the cumulative failure of Thailand to deal with something that everyone knew could happen again.

Edited October 25, 2011 by qualtrough

[animatic]

If you buildt your billion dollar factory on flood-land, believe the guy who takes you out for drinks and hookers at Nana that "no flood there" and you don't bring in your own experts to check on the risk: NOT MY PROBLEM!

A bit short-sighted, don't you think?

What about all the workers laid off and their families?

What about the suppliers, their workers and families?

What about future investments in Thailand?

This kind of industry-hostile attitude is rather selfish.

Honda Malaysia has now shut down production.

No parts from Thailand, so all those workers are laid off

till parts supply chain is repaired.

No country is an island anymore.

Edited October 25, 2011 by animatic

[rgs2001uk]

These CEOs didn't do any kind of due diligence when making the decision to locate at these sites. If they had, THEY would have known that their factories were in vulnerable locations, and that the flood defenses to protect their investments were non-existent to poor. Anyone who accepted the word of ANY government that things will be just fine has only themselves to blame. The Japanese are smarter than that, so this is the equivalent of a Thai kicking the dog when they get upset.

Furthermore, given that the flooding is now the worst since 1942, it is hardly fair to blame the new government for this situation. If the Democrats had some plan to deal with this and a track record of preventive planning as far as floods I would love to hear it. It would have been beyond the ability of any government to have marshaled all the resources necessary to deal with this massive flooding, the worst in living memory (unless you are over 80) within 2 months, or even two years. This is the result of the cumulative failure of Thailand to deal with something that everyone knew could happen again.

I would imagine the bean counters concluded it was an acceptable risk.

[whybother]

These CEOs didn't do any kind of due diligence when making the decision to locate at these sites. If they had, THEY would have known that their factories were in vulnerable locations, and that the flood defenses to protect their investments were non-existent to poor. Anyone who accepted the word of ANY government that things will be just fine has only themselves to blame. The Japanese are smarter than that, so this is the equivalent of a Thai kicking the dog when they get upset.

Furthermore, given that the flooding is now the worst since 1942, it is hardly fair to blame the new government for this situation. If the Democrats had some plan to deal with this and a track record of preventive planning as far as floods I would love to hear it. It would have been beyond the ability of any government to have marshaled all the resources necessary to deal with this massive flooding, the worst in living memory (unless you are over 80) within 2 months, or even two years. This is the result of the cumulative failure of Thailand to deal with something that everyone knew could happen again.

Who is blaming the government for the flooding? Their management of relief and communication is what most people are complaining about.