Anger Rises In Flooded Bangkok As Centre Stays Dry

[ginjag]

Ridiculous, eh? Well, I evacuated over On Nut two days ago. The night I got here I was taken by my friends to the new mall, Terminal 21, for dinner at Tony Roma's since I hadn't had anything much to eat in almost a week. The mall looked like a salmon run, with people buying and shopping with a frenzy. Fully stocked Lotus over here on On Nut, too, unlike the one in Salaya which was sold out of water almost two weeks ago. Also canals over here are practically EMPTY. I'm seeing the BOTTOM of drainage pipes. Why?

BTW, someone answer me this. The floodwater from the Mahasawat was supposed to go into Nakhon Pathom and the Tha Chen above Nakhon Chasi. But that area is relatively dry. According to all the pre flood maps that area was supposed to be under 1 to 2 meters of water and Phutthamonthon was supposed to get only 20 cm to 50 cm. So, why is Phutthamonthon under 1.5 meters and Nakhon Chasi is dry? Who plugged up the Mahasawat and diverted the word south in Phutthamonthon?

I live in Huay Kwang and I haven't seen a fully stocked supermarket in nearly 2 weeks, and there certainly hasn't been any water. I doubt On Nut would be any different given that there have even been shortages reported in non-flooded areas well outside Bangkok.

I heard people "were living it up" in Central Rama II. Those rich elite over there are unbelievable! Thai's love shopping. They will go shopping whenever they can. It is nothing to do with "protecting peoples right to live it up".

Doubt it all you want. But I have seen it with my own two eyes. I'm in On Nut right now, on Soi 50, and the Lotus is a 5-10 minute walk from here. The fact is you don't know what you're talking about. I was trapped in Phutthamonthon two days ago and am seeing the contrast between there and here with my own eyes. Until you have been in my shoes--and rob's and h90's and others, perhaps you should just shut up.

I'm not saying anything about what you guys have experienced with your flooded homes.

But Bangkok is not being protected "to protect people's right to live it up at the malls on Sukhumvit".

And if Lotus in On Nut is fully stocked, it is probably the only supermarket that is fully stocked within 100km of Bangkok.

Make that 700 kilometers----even no burgers in 7-11 Udon.

[ginjag]

Tawp what % of the entire area of Bkk and Ayuttaya are flooded ???? ALL THE SPIN OFFS FROM THAT, all those affected indirectly, industry the lot the game is up NOW--through bad management.

How many people do YOU think would be further affected if the Chosen Zone(dry) was flooded, RAW numbers are suffering my figures represent a broader picture - the numbers in mills were not really the point it was the attitude of the powers that be-to protect a sacred centre .........50 million people are directly affected in a big way---prices, shop shortages, hardship all round.............Please you have to remember the people who live on higher ground and would not normally be flooded ARE, because of this DRY zone. Look at the whole picture, yes I do understand, and I talk to the people that have lost the lot. Had the water been let (more or less) free style-apart from vital inst,..not so many would be in SH#t street.

Now your claimed number of affected has gone up from 20 million to 50 million?

Please do not TWIST things around to suit yourself, INDIRECT was a word used--- 50 million are affected in a big way--yes---THE WHOLE picture,,, getting brownie points from others posts are not clever--and also not wanting to understand my points are not worth conversation. I have NOT changed my figures from 20-50 mil as most posters can see.... you are being picky for the sake of it. Broader picture was the main point, stop manipulating and putting together what you want--doesn't help your argumentative image.

[TAWP]

Please do not TWIST things around to suit yourself, INDIRECT was a word used--- 50 million are affected in a big way--yes---THE WHOLE picture,,, getting brownie points from others posts are not clever--and also not wanting to understand my points are not worth conversation. I have NOT changed my figures from 20-50 mil as most posters can see.... you are being picky for the sake of it. Broader picture was the main point, stop manipulating and putting together what you want--doesn't help your argumentative image.

So what is your point?

50 million is indirectly affected, so open the flood-gates, get another 4-8 million directly affected, and everything will be good?

[Ricardo]

Allowing the CBD and the rest of Central BKK to flood is idiotic. While I feel for the folks in the 'burbs, if flooding is allowed in inner BKK it will only prolong recovery and damage the economy more. Business can still continue, but allow flooding and it will grind to a halt. Not smart. Protect the inner city and airport, if they don't, well, TIT!

Be a sport. Bangkok people should take their fair share. Rural people pay tax too, not just bangkokians.

I'm sorry but I do not agree.

It surely makes more sense to flood the countryside, rather than industrial-estates or the centre of the capital, because the economic-damage will be less ? Not negligible, or pleasant, but less-expensive to the country as-a-whole in the long run.

Flooding the shops & offices & banks & factories, out of some notion of democratic-equality, cannot be right, can it ?

[tjrd12]

Allowing the CBD and the rest of Central BKK to flood is idiotic. While I feel for the folks in the 'burbs, if flooding is allowed in inner BKK it will only prolong recovery and damage the economy more. Business can still continue, but allow flooding and it will grind to a halt. Not smart. Protect the inner city and airport, if they don't, well, TIT!

Be a sport. Bangkok people should take their fair share. Rural people pay tax too, not just bangkokians.

It really has nothing to do about being a sport. It has to do with economics and sense. The burbs are already a total loss and whether the water drains a week or two faster will not lessen the degree of damage or cost less or stave off the disease that is sure to follow.

Allowing central BKK and the airport to flood simply adds to the cost of cleanup and rebuilding, damages the core infrastructure of the country, completely devastates investor confidence (as if it is not damaged enough), and will spread disease at an unheard of rate. Closing the airport will ruin high season which brings much needed tourist dollars and taxes to help in the rebuilding process. It is simply madness to even consider letting water into the inner city on purpose. Water will not simply "flow through," it will be in the inner city for days if not weeks. Central BKK and the airport should be protected at all costs.

[sparebox2]

Please do not TWIST things around to suit yourself, INDIRECT was a word used--- 50 million are affected in a big way--yes---THE WHOLE picture,,, getting brownie points from others posts are not clever--and also not wanting to understand my points are not worth conversation. I have NOT changed my figures from 20-50 mil as most posters can see.... you are being picky for the sake of it. Broader picture was the main point, stop manipulating and putting together what you want--doesn't help your argumentative image.

So what is your point?

50 million is indirectly affected, so open the flood-gates, get another 4-8 million directly affected, and everything will be good?

YES. Spot on. Everything will be good.

[tjrd12]

Allowing the CBD and the rest of Central BKK to flood is idiotic. While I feel for the folks in the 'burbs, if flooding is allowed in inner BKK it will only prolong recovery and damage the economy more. Business can still continue, but allow flooding and it will grind to a halt. Not smart. Protect the inner city and airport, if they don't, well, TIT!

Be a sport. Bangkok people should take their fair share. Rural people pay tax too, not just bangkokians.

I'm sorry but I do not agree.

It surely makes more sense to flood the countryside, rather than industrial-estates or the centre of the capital, because the economic-damage will be less ? Not negligible, or pleasant, but less-expensive to the country as-a-whole in the long run.

Flooding the shops & offices & banks & factories, out of some notion of democratic-equality, cannot be right, can it ?

It really is amazing to contrast the Japanese people's response to the Tsunami with the Thai people's response to the flooding. In Japan the population worked together, here it is neighborhood against neighborhood. "I am flooded with 2 meters of water and you have no flooding. I want to tear down the dyke so that you have one meter and I have one meter." Childish, self-centered insanity!

[metisdead]

Tensions are high, some people are more affected more than others, rather than attacking others lets calm down and discuss the issue at hand.

[manarak]

they need to build some north/south high-speed water evacuation tunnels with accelerator pumps/propellers

[whybother]

Bangchan Industrial Estate Fights Flood

The Bangchan Industrial Estate in Minburi, Bangkok is fighting flooding with its current flood barriers at 50 centimeters above the approaching flood water.

The flood barriers have divided up the whole industrial park into 6 blocks.

If the flood water overflows across the barriers, roads should be able to block the water at an additional height of 50 centimeters.

The industrial estate has 93 factories producing furniture, auto parts and food, and employs 13,000 laborers. Total investment value is at 19.85 billion baht.

-- Tan Network 2011-11-01

Another industrial estate at risk due to the extra opening of sluice gates.

[whybother]

It really is amazing to contrast the Japanese people's response to the Tsunami with the Thai people's response to the flooding. In Japan the population worked together, here it is neighborhood against neighborhood. "I am flooded with 2 meters of water and you have no flooding. I want to tear down the dyke so that you have one meter and I have one meter." Childish, self-centered insanity!

Not a very good comparison.

In the Japanese tsunami, the damage was done very quickly. There was no choice about who was affected and who wasn't.

[animatic]

You can NOT eat locally produced symbolism.

Existing infrastructure is what puts a nation back in gear to clean up and survive a disaster,

ruining critical infrastructure to 'be fair' only harms all, including those

with a short term interest and anger to to the opposite.

I was in disastrous floods last spring and several years running so,

even if I am not now, I understand the dynamic all too well.

I am more than sympathetic, but know when the waters gone away,

that is FAR FROM THE END.

[sparebox2]

You can NOT eat locally produced symbolism.

Existing infrastructure is what puts a nation back in gear to clean up and survive a disaster,

ruining critical infrastructure to 'be fair' only harms all, including those

with a short term interest and anger to to the opposite.

I was in disastrous floods last spring and several years running so,

even if I am not now, I understand the dynamic all too well.

I am more than sympathetic, but know when the waters gone away,

that is FAR FROM THE END.

Wrong. There was no disastrous floods last spring and several years running. Last major flood was a decade ago.

[Jerrytheyoung]

You can NOT eat locally produced symbolism.

Existing infrastructure is what puts a nation back in gear to clean up and survive a disaster,

ruining critical infrastructure to 'be fair' only harms all, including those

with a short term interest and anger to to the opposite.

I was in disastrous floods last spring and several years running so,

even if I am not now, I understand the dynamic all too well.

I am more than sympathetic, but know when the waters gone away,

that is FAR FROM THE END.

What do you mean by FAR from the END?

I do nopt believe Bangkokian elite able to give money to the rural, flooded during a month and who have lost everything.

[robblok]

Bangchan Industrial Estate Fights Flood

The Bangchan Industrial Estate in Minburi, Bangkok is fighting flooding with its current flood barriers at 50 centimeters above the approaching flood water.

The flood barriers have divided up the whole industrial park into 6 blocks.

If the flood water overflows across the barriers, roads should be able to block the water at an additional height of 50 centimeters.

The industrial estate has 93 factories producing furniture, auto parts and food, and employs 13,000 laborers. Total investment value is at 19.85 billion baht.

-- Tan Network 2011-11-01

So they have a meter to go before they are flooded.. i hope they don't flood and if its a direct result of those gates then they should be adjusted.

Another industrial estate at risk due to the extra opening of sluice gates.

Edited November 1, 2011 by robblok

[whybother]

Wrong. There was no disastrous floods last spring and several years running. Last major flood was a decade ago.

2010 Thai floods

Thai Flooding Is Called Worst in Decades

Edited November 1, 2011 by whybother

[Gippy]

1320135810[/url]' post='4813487']

1320125787[/url]' post='4812998']

1320124723[/url]' post='4812943']

Allowing the CBD and the rest of Central BKK to flood is idiotic. While I feel for the folks in the 'burbs, if flooding is allowed in inner BKK it will only prolong recovery and damage the economy more. Business can still continue, but allow flooding and it will grind to a halt. Not smart. Protect the inner city and airport, if they don't, well, TIT!

Be a sport. Bangkok people should take their fair share. Rural people pay tax too, not just bangkokians.

It really has nothing to do about being a sport. It has to do with economics and sense. The burbs are already a total loss and whether the water drains a week or two faster will not lessen the degree of damage or cost less or stave off the disease that is sure to follow.

Allowing central BKK and the airport to flood simply adds to the cost of cleanup and rebuilding, damages the core infrastructure of the country, completely devastates investor confidence (as if it is not damaged enough), and will spread disease at an unheard of rate. Closing the airport will ruin high season which brings much needed tourist dollars and taxes to help in the rebuilding process. It is simply madness to even consider letting water into the inner city on purpose. Water will not simply "flow through," it will be in the inner city for days if not weeks. Central BKK and the airport should be protected at all costs.

Why would the burbs be a total loss? Do you think they are going to knock all the buildings down after the flooding eases? What about the tens of thousands of businesses that can reopen once the water is gone. Being able to open two weeks faster could be the difference between being able to reopen or completely running out of funds. Every extra day the northern burbs are flooded is costing us in lost income and my staff are no longer getting paid. Having inner Bangkok take a few risks instead of leaving the canals empty could be a sensible trade off.

[MunterHunter]

Why would the burbs be a total loss? Do you think they are going to knock all the buildings down after the flooding eases? What about the tens of thousands of businesses that can reopen once the water is gone. Being able to open two weeks faster could be the difference between being able to reopen or completely running out of funds. Every extra day the northern burbs are flooded is costing us in lost income and my staff are no longer getting paid. Having inner Bangkok take a few risks instead of leaving the canals empty could be a sensible trade off.

Ok, so flood the CBD, the airport, the food manufacturing factories and 12 million more homes in inner bangkok so that the SME's in northern Bangkok can re-open two weeks earlier and/or avoid going bankrupt... that doesn't make a lot of sense to me.

[animatic]

You can NOT eat locally produced symbolism.

Existing infrastructure is what puts a nation back in gear to clean up and survive a disaster,

ruining critical infrastructure to 'be fair' only harms all, including those

with a short term interest and anger to to the opposite.

I was in disastrous floods last spring and several years running so,

even if I am not now, I understand the dynamic all too well.

I am more than sympathetic, but know when the waters gone away,

that is FAR FROM THE END.

Wrong. There was no disastrous floods last spring and several years running. Last major flood was a decade ago.

Dude... depends where you were.

And yes there were disastrous floods last year,

just not as monumental as this year.

I was also in the Camargue France flood of 2003, and you don't want to go there.

[animatic]

You can NOT eat locally produced symbolism.

Existing infrastructure is what puts a nation back in gear to clean up and survive a disaster,

ruining critical infrastructure to 'be fair' only harms all, including those

with a short term interest and anger to to the opposite.

I was in disastrous floods last spring and several years running so,

even if I am not now, I understand the dynamic all too well.

I am more than sympathetic, but know when the waters gone away,

that is FAR FROM THE END.

What do you mean by FAR from the END?

I do not believe Bangkokian elite able to give money to the rural, flooded during a month and who have lost everything.

What part of rebuilding and recovery don't you understand?

A disaster aftermath lingers long after the initial problem is gone.

Just because the water is not high doesn't mean the problems it caused

have been fixed and people have what they need.

[zydeco]

Why would the burbs be a total loss? Do you think they are going to knock all the buildings down after the flooding eases? What about the tens of thousands of businesses that can reopen once the water is gone. Being able to open two weeks faster could be the difference between being able to reopen or completely running out of funds. Every extra day the northern burbs are flooded is costing us in lost income and my staff are no longer getting paid. Having inner Bangkok take a few risks instead of leaving the canals empty could be a sensible trade off.

Ok, so flood the CBD, the airport, the food manufacturing factories and 12 million more homes in inner bangkok so that the SME's in northern Bangkok can re-open two weeks earlier and/or avoid going bankrupt... that doesn't make a lot of sense to me.

Manhunter, where do you live?

Edited November 1, 2011 by zydeco

[MunterHunter]

Manhunter, where do you live?

Inner Bangkok, near Lad Prao - not affected right now but ready/expecting it... especially if the flood barriers are destroyed by angry mobs

[cdnvic]

One post removed for discussion of the Royal Family, however disguised.

[tjrd12]

Why would the burbs be a total loss? Do you think they are going to knock all the buildings down after the flooding eases? What about the tens of thousands of businesses that can reopen once the water is gone. Being able to open two weeks faster could be the difference between being able to reopen or completely running out of funds. Every extra day the northern burbs are flooded is costing us in lost income and my staff are no longer getting paid. Having inner Bangkok take a few risks instead of leaving the canals empty could be a sensible trade off.

Ok, so flood the CBD, the airport, the food manufacturing factories and 12 million more homes in inner bangkok so that the SME's in northern Bangkok can re-open two weeks earlier and/or avoid going bankrupt... that doesn't make a lot of sense to me.

Could not agree more. It makes no sense. If Central BKK is allowed to flood it will not be for a day. It could last weeks. Again, the effects would be devastating. It is not a sensible trade off. It would only compound the problem as there will be more area to clean and even more people out of work and out of a place to live. Protect what it not flooded and then do all you can once the waters recede.

[aaacorp]

Maybe it s also time for investors in thailand to invest in other places than bkk. Yes bkk is 40% of the national growth...and this is a problem too. I went to the BOI lot of time and there are plenty of opportunity in terms of taxes and helps if you choose to invest or create your factory outside bangkok.

So maybe it s time to think about the next flood and how to handle this but also how to distribute the investments in Thailand... And it s not a problem of infrastructures or labour but a problem that for most of the investors Bkk = Thailand...

So yes flooding bkk may be devastating for the economy...for a while....widen the gap between rural and bankokians will not improve the unity of the thai people IMO

[Ijustwannateach]

Whether the fumble-fingered-ness of the government was a deliberate ploy or simple incompetence, I would say this mob rule effect is a spinoff. If the government had kept its eye on the ball and at LEAST made sure (even if it was doing nothing) that its announcements were credible, perhaps people could trust them now if they said 'such-and-such' will help, or 'such-and-such' will not help.

As it is, since they lack all credibility, no one will believe them now if they say that opening floodgates will help people outside Bangkok or not (or as is more than likely these days, they say both things). As a result, people will ASSUME the worst (even if, and I am giving them a BIG benefit of the doubt, their overall stance is benevolent) and act as an angry mob. In this regard, ALL political parties who have been squabbling are to blame for the loss of credibility.

I don't want to see it happen, but if I were a foreign investor I'd demand an official bond of insurance against ALL capital properties I invested in plus loss of production in case of national crisis before I even opened negotiations to do business here. I wonder what that will do to Thailand's competitiveness.

[whybother]

Maybe it s also time for investors in thailand to invest in other places than bkk. Yes bkk is 40% of the national growth...and this is a problem too. I went to the BOI lot of time and there are plenty of opportunity in terms of taxes and helps if you choose to invest or create your factory outside bangkok.

So maybe it s time to think about the next flood and how to handle this but also how to distribute the investments in Thailand... And it s not a problem of infrastructures or labour but a problem that for most of the investors Bkk = Thailand...

So yes flooding bkk may be devastating for the economy...for a while....widen the gap between rural and bankokians will not improve the unity of the thai people IMO

Like Ayuttaya? Or Pathum Thani?

Edited November 1, 2011 by whybother

[aaacorp]

Maybe it s also time for investors in thailand to invest in other places than bkk. Yes bkk is 40% of the national growth...and this is a problem too. I went to the BOI lot of time and there are plenty of opportunity in terms of taxes and helps if you choose to invest or create your factory outside bangkok.

So maybe it s time to think about the next flood and how to handle this but also how to distribute the investments in Thailand... And it s not a problem of infrastructures or labour but a problem that for most of the investors Bkk = Thailand...

So yes flooding bkk may be devastating for the economy...for a while....widen the gap between rural and bankokians will not improve the unity of the thai people IMO

Like Ayuttaya? Or Pathum Thani?

Like all the east of thailand and Isaan

[BigBikeBKK]

Many of you who advocate flooding of Bangkok's "elite" to offer some kind of perceived "relief" to the flooded suburbs don't seem to understand the fact that there are millions of poor in Bangkok, most are not included in official population figures and they are for the most part living in low-lying "slum" areas and they are the ones who will suffer the most if Bangkok floods.

[animatic]

Invest and place investments jobs and infrastructure evenly across the whole country.

It spreads out losses and damage in emergencies,

it spreads well being to more Thai workers,

and improves general transport.

Instead of blindly rebuilding everything exactly where it was found destroyed,

spread out the risk and the rewards for working Thais.

The elite will not be punished by flooding evenly in some revenge fantasy, but the whole of Thailands citizenry will take the hit by greatly slowing the recovery.

This isn not about a few hiso houses not getting hit to 'be fair',

but about essential infrastructure needed to rebuild faster taking a big hit.

Edited November 1, 2011 by animatic