All Bangkok Districts To Be Flooded If Klong Sam Wa's Sluice Gate Further Opened: Deputy Governor

[whybother]

You went totally past my point that the governor was scare mongering. To get his way in a power play. That was my point. 50cm in the streets is not that much its 60cm here and life will go on. But its too much IMHO, i said take as much without flooding BKK. The governor said whole of BKK at risk (even parts not even remotely connected to this gate).

I don't draw lines i just say they have to take some risks. The governor clearly does not want to take risks to help others. He has a I am dry let the other suffer mentality. Instead of lets see how much water we can take without getting flooded ourselves.

Now that the water levels in the river are lower more water can be expelled there. Every little bit helps. If only mentally it still helps. Live a while flooded and you will understand.

Before i was stressed and angry with BKK now i cant really care because water is not rising. I am pretty sure many people who see the water rise will get angry and stressed and if they then see a governor not wanting to take risks... Then you get what happened there.

He (or the Deputy Governor) may have been scaremongering (at least the reporters were), but he wasn't completely wrong, and he had to get his point across so that not all the gates were opened. The governor wants to make sure the water levels in the klongs are controlled. He doesn't want to see more flooded industrial estates, and he knows that if that if the klongs there overflow then it's just a matter of time before it gets to the city centre.

I'm sure the people below the gates that are now flooded will be angry and stressed, but there isn't much they can do about it, because there are no gates down stream for them to open. The water isn't going to flow away very quickly either. Don Mueang is a good example of that. Ayutthaya is about 100km from the gulf and about a metre above sea level, which means the slope from there to the gulf is about 1cm for every km. A mm for every 100m. You're kitchen floor has more slope than that. The water is going to take a while to drain away.

[ResX]

You went totally past my point that the governor was scare mongering. To get his way in a power play. That was my point. 50cm in the streets is not that much its 60cm here and life will go on. But its too much IMHO, i said take as much without flooding BKK. The governor said whole of BKK at risk (even parts not even remotely connected to this gate).

I don't draw lines i just say they have to take some risks. The governor clearly does not want to take risks to help others. He has a I am dry let the other suffer mentality. Instead of lets see how much water we can take without getting flooded ourselves.

Now that the water levels in the river are lower more water can be expelled there. Every little bit helps. If only mentally it still helps. Live a while flooded and you will understand.

Before i was stressed and angry with BKK now i cant really care because water is not rising. I am pretty sure many people who see the water rise will get angry and stressed and if they then see a governor not wanting to take risks... Then you get what happened there.

He (or the Deputy Governor) may have been scaremongering (at least the reporters were), but he wasn't completely wrong, and he had to get his point across so that not all the gates were opened. The governor wants to make sure the water levels in the klongs are controlled. He doesn't want to see more flooded industrial estates, and he knows that if that if the klongs there overflow then it's just a matter of time before it gets to the city centre.

I'm sure the people below the gates that are now flooded will be angry and stressed, but there isn't much they can do about it, because there are no gates down stream for them to open. The water isn't going to flow away very quickly either. Don Mueang is a good example of that. Ayutthaya is about 100km from the gulf and about a metre above sea level, which means the slope from there to the gulf is about 1cm for every km. A mm for every 100m. You're kitchen floor has more slope than that. The water is going to take a while to drain away.

Why they put themselves under this scenario in the first place? Why not keeping the flood waters safely inside those big reservoirs. I wish I know the answer but I don't. It is important for the dams managements to find out the answer to these questions. I can almost guarantee that this is not the last flood that they have to face.

I have seen the way that Bhumibol reservoir was operated. I can safely say that in future the reservoir has to have at least 4billion cubic meter of unfilled reserve by 1st October every year. That is not all that the dams authorities should do to stay dry but this is the least and the most important one. For Sirkit, I estimated to have unfilled reserve by around 2.5 to 3billion cubic meter.

[rubl]

Why they put themselves under this scenario in the first place? Why not keeping the flood waters safely inside those big reservoirs. I wish I know the answer but I don't. It is important for the dams managements to find out the answer to these questions. I can almost guarantee that this is not the last flood that they have to face.

I have seen the way that Bhumibol reservoir was operated. I can safely say that in future the reservoir has to have at least 4billion cubic meter of unfilled reserve by 1st October every year. That is not all that the dams authorities should do to stay dry but this is the least and the most important one. For Sirkit, I estimated to have unfilled reserve by around 2.5 to 3billion cubic meter.

Today the head FROC Gen. Pracha Promnok said "There were still about one billion cubic metres of water outside the north of Bangkok and this huge volume would likely spread to various districts of the city soon". A few days ago some were still talking about 16 billion m3. The 1000 boats of Minister Plodprasob seem to have done their work

[Gweiloman]

You went totally past my point that the governor was scare mongering. To get his way in a power play. That was my point. 50cm in the streets is not that much its 60cm here and life will go on. But its too much IMHO, i said take as much without flooding BKK. The governor said whole of BKK at risk (even parts not even remotely connected to this gate).

I don't draw lines i just say they have to take some risks. The governor clearly does not want to take risks to help others. He has a I am dry let the other suffer mentality. Instead of lets see how much water we can take without getting flooded ourselves.

Now that the water levels in the river are lower more water can be expelled there. Every little bit helps. If only mentally it still helps. Live a while flooded and you will understand.

Before i was stressed and angry with BKK now i cant really care because water is not rising. I am pretty sure many people who see the water rise will get angry and stressed and if they then see a governor not wanting to take risks... Then you get what happened there.

He (or the Deputy Governor) may have been scaremongering (at least the reporters were), but he wasn't completely wrong, and he had to get his point across so that not all the gates were opened. The governor wants to make sure the water levels in the klongs are controlled. He doesn't want to see more flooded industrial estates, and he knows that if that if the klongs there overflow then it's just a matter of time before it gets to the city centre.

I'm sure the people below the gates that are now flooded will be angry and stressed, but there isn't much they can do about it, because there are no gates down stream for them to open. The water isn't going to flow away very quickly either. Don Mueang is a good example of that. Ayutthaya is about 100km from the gulf and about a metre above sea level, which means the slope from there to the gulf is about 1cm for every km. A mm for every 100m. You're kitchen floor has more slope than that. The water is going to take a while to drain away.

Why they put themselves under this scenario in the first place? Why not keeping the flood waters safely inside those big reservoirs. I wish I know the answer but I don't. It is important for the dams managements to find out the answer to these questions. I can almost guarantee that this is not the last flood that they have to face.

I have seen the way that Bhumibol reservoir was operated. I can safely say that in future the reservoir has to have at least 4billion cubic meter of unfilled reserve by 1st October every year. That is not all that the dams authorities should do to stay dry but this is the least and the most important one. For Sirkit, I estimated to have unfilled reserve by around 2.5 to 3billion cubic meter.

I'm not sure but I seem to have read somewhere that they had to release the water from the dams in order to prevent damage to the dams? I also read that one of the dams was at 136% capacity, which would mean that even if the water level is below the lip, the dam is not constructed to have water all the way to the top. Could you shed some light on this?

[ResX]

Why they put themselves under this scenario in the first place? Why not keeping the flood waters safely inside those big reservoirs. I wish I know the answer but I don't. It is important for the dams managements to find out the answer to these questions. I can almost guarantee that this is not the last flood that they have to face.

I have seen the way that Bhumibol reservoir was operated. I can safely say that in future the reservoir has to have at least 4billion cubic meter of unfilled reserve by 1st October every year. That is not all that the dams authorities should do to stay dry but this is the least and the most important one. For Sirkit, I estimated to have unfilled reserve by around 2.5 to 3billion cubic meter.

Today the head FROC Gen. Pracha Promnok said "There were still about one billion cubic metres of water outside the north of Bangkok and this huge volume would likely spread to various districts of the city soon". A few days ago some were still talking about 16 billion m3. The 1000 boats of Minister Plodprasob seem to have done their work

Probably he was referring to two separate flood plains. I don't know. 16 billion cubic meter of water is about 20% of the annual average rainfall for the whole Choa Phraya catchment. This is about the target volume of flood water that I recommended on the other thread to be captured by all the flood control dams in CH catchment every year. The dams authorities have to prepare all the dams to hold this water of this amount safely at least for 30days from October to November. This is the least thing that could be done to give better chance to keep Bangkok dry. I mean least thing that could be done...

[ResX]

You went totally past my point that the governor was scare mongering. To get his way in a power play. That was my point. 50cm in the streets is not that much its 60cm here and life will go on. But its too much IMHO, i said take as much without flooding BKK. The governor said whole of BKK at risk (even parts not even remotely connected to this gate).

I don't draw lines i just say they have to take some risks. The governor clearly does not want to take risks to help others. He has a I am dry let the other suffer mentality. Instead of lets see how much water we can take without getting flooded ourselves.

Now that the water levels in the river are lower more water can be expelled there. Every little bit helps. If only mentally it still helps. Live a while flooded and you will understand.

Before i was stressed and angry with BKK now i cant really care because water is not rising. I am pretty sure many people who see the water rise will get angry and stressed and if they then see a governor not wanting to take risks... Then you get what happened there.

He (or the Deputy Governor) may have been scaremongering (at least the reporters were), but he wasn't completely wrong, and he had to get his point across so that not all the gates were opened. The governor wants to make sure the water levels in the klongs are controlled. He doesn't want to see more flooded industrial estates, and he knows that if that if the klongs there overflow then it's just a matter of time before it gets to the city centre.

I'm sure the people below the gates that are now flooded will be angry and stressed, but there isn't much they can do about it, because there are no gates down stream for them to open. The water isn't going to flow away very quickly either. Don Mueang is a good example of that. Ayutthaya is about 100km from the gulf and about a metre above sea level, which means the slope from there to the gulf is about 1cm for every km. A mm for every 100m. You're kitchen floor has more slope than that. The water is going to take a while to drain away.

Why they put themselves under this scenario in the first place? Why not keeping the flood waters safely inside those big reservoirs. I wish I know the answer but I don't. It is important for the dams managements to find out the answer to these questions. I can almost guarantee that this is not the last flood that they have to face.

I have seen the way that Bhumibol reservoir was operated. I can safely say that in future the reservoir has to have at least 4billion cubic meter of unfilled reserve by 1st October every year. That is not all that the dams authorities should do to stay dry but this is the least and the most important one. For Sirkit, I estimated to have unfilled reserve by around 2.5 to 3billion cubic meter.

I'm not sure but I seem to have read somewhere that they had to release the water from the dams in order to prevent damage to the dams? I also read that one of the dams was at 136% capacity, which would mean that even if the water level is below the lip, the dam is not constructed to have water all the way to the top. Could you shed some light on this?

There are two types of flood control reservoirs that we can categorize based on the their spillway design. The first type of reservoir is designed with gated and orifice spillways -e.g. sluice gates. The main reason for having this type of spillway is due to the requirement not to allow the water level to increase above the full supply level (FSL) of the reservoir. This can be achieved by adjusting the opening of the sluice gates. The gates themselves are placed about 10-20 meter under water to provide driving pressure. The operational objective of this spillway is to match the incoming flood flow to the reservoir to its outgoing flow. Therefore, the reservoir water level can be kept constant at FSL. Thus, the main dam structures are protected from flooding. This type of reservoir cannot hold water more than its maximum storage capacity. Two examples for this type of reservoir that I know in Thailand are Bhumibol and Sirkit.

The second type of reservoir is designed with a free flow spillway. The spillway bottom crest is placed just above the FSL of the reservoir. The main reason to have such design is to allow water level to increase above its FSL in the event of out design flood flow that strikes. What this spillway does is to keep some of the flood flow and release some. Unlike the first type as described above, the total discharge for this type of spillway is as function of water level. At FSL, the spillway discharge is zero. As the water level increases above the FSL, the discharge will become more. The operational objective is to allow the spillway to seek balance between incoming flood flow to the total outgoing of the reservoir. It is hoped that the balance will occur below the maximum anticipated water level above FSL (Normally between 4-8m). Otherwise it enters the other category of protection and operation that we are not going to discuss further. This second type of design is very friendly for flood control operation since it allows vast amount of flood water to occupy the maximum surface areas ranging from the reservoir to the downstream.

Can you see the main problem with some of your flood control dams by now? Bhumibol and Sirkit were designed in accordance with the first type above. The adverse effect is that as long as these reservoirs can keep the flood water and their water level elevations are below their FSL then everything is going to be fine. The downstream populations do not even realize the were floods that just struck. But once these reservoirs fail to capture the flood flows then a deadly conflict will arise. The reservoirs have to release all the water that get almost instantaneously to curb the water level to increase above their FSLs. In this case smaller surface area will contain the flood water. Only down stream flood plains that have to contain the water. As a result the same flood flow will cause even bigger flood.

Edited November 3, 2011 by ResX

[TAWP]

Normally if people would forcibly try to do major damage to a major city like Bangkok they'd be branded terrorists....

The Reds who damaged Bkk in Spring '09 and Spring '10 were terrorists in every sense of the word (remember commandeering LP gas truck? .....and raiding hospital?). Yet Thais like them, and voted their leaders in to political power positions months later. The message: It's ok to be a Thai terrorist, particularly if it relates to damaging Bkk.

Terrorists?

not hardly.

If a sit-in at an airport is terrorism, then bombing the nationals capital absolute is.

You cannot have it both ways.

[Gweiloman]

Why they put themselves under this scenario in the first place? Why not keeping the flood waters safely inside those big reservoirs. I wish I know the answer but I don't. It is important for the dams managements to find out the answer to these questions. I can almost guarantee that this is not the last flood that they have to face.

I have seen the way that Bhumibol reservoir was operated. I can safely say that in future the reservoir has to have at least 4billion cubic meter of unfilled reserve by 1st October every year. That is not all that the dams authorities should do to stay dry but this is the least and the most important one. For Sirkit, I estimated to have unfilled reserve by around 2.5 to 3billion cubic meter.

I'm not sure but I seem to have read somewhere that they had to release the water from the dams in order to prevent damage to the dams? I also read that one of the dams was at 136% capacity, which would mean that even if the water level is below the lip, the dam is not constructed to have water all the way to the top. Could you shed some light on this?

There are two types of flood control reservoirs that we can categorize based on the their spillway design. The first type of reservoir is designed with gated and orifice spillways -e.g. sluice gates. The main reason for having this type of spillway is due to the requirement not to allow the water level to increase above the full supply level (FSL) of the reservoir. This can be achieved by adjusting the opening of the sluice gates. The gates themselves are placed about 10-20 meter under water to provide driving pressure. The operational objective of this spillway is to match the incoming flood flow to the reservoir to its outgoing flow. Therefore, the reservoir water level can be kept constant at FSL. Thus, the main dam structures are protected from flooding. This type of reservoir cannot hold water more than its maximum storage capacity. Two examples for this type of reservoir that I know in Thailand are Bhumibol and Sirkit.

The second type of reservoir is designed with a free flow spillway. The spillway bottom crest is placed just above the FSL of the reservoir. The main reason to have such design is to allow water level to increase above its FSL in the event of out design flood flow that strikes. What this spillway does is to keep some of the flood flow and release some. Unlike the first type as described above, the total discharge for this type of spillway is as function of water level. At FSL, the spillway discharge is zero. As the water level increases above the FSL, the discharge will become more. The operational objective is to allow the spillway to seek balance between incoming flood flow to the total outgoing of the reservoir. It is hoped that the balance will occur below the maximum anticipated water level above FSL (Normally between 4-8m). Otherwise it enters the other category of protection and operation that we are not going to discuss further. This second type of design is very friendly for flood control operation since it allows vast amount of flood water to occupy the maximum surface areas ranging from the reservoir to the downstream.

Can you see the main problem with some of your flood control dams by now? Bhumibol and Sirkit were designed in accordance with the first type above. The adverse effect is that as long as these reservoirs can keep the flood water and their water level elevations are below their FSL then everything is going to be fine. The downstream populations do not even realize the were floods that just struck. But once these reservoirs fail to capture the flood flows then a deadly conflict will arise. The reservoirs have to release all the water that get almost instantaneously to curb the water level to increase above their FSLs. In this case smaller surface area will contain the flood water. Only down stream flood plains that have to contain the water. As a result the same flood flow will cause even bigger flood.

Thanks, a very enlightening post. As I understand it, due to the typhoons and subsequent deluge of water that came down from Laos and Burma, the dams basically overfilled and water therefore had to be released in order to prevent damage to the reservoirs. This in turn caused the initial flooding in Chiang Mai, Isaan etc. Would I be correct in supposing this?

[whybother]

Thanks, a very enlightening post. As I understand it, due to the typhoons and subsequent deluge of water that came down from Laos and Burma, the dams basically overfilled and water therefore had to be released in order to prevent damage to the reservoirs. This in turn caused the initial flooding in Chiang Mai, Isaan etc. Would I be correct in supposing this?

The way I understand it, the flooding in Isaan and Chiang Mai was a direct result of the typhoons.

There is a mountain range between Burma and Thailand, so no water would have come from there. The rivers from Laos, and also from the Isaan plateau, flow into the Mekong and through Cambodia (hence the disastrous flooding there).

http://upload.wikime..._Topography.png

The rain from 3 typhoons in August caused flooding in the North and North East, most of which came down the Chao Phraya river system into Ayutthaya and then Bangkok. In addition to this, water was released from 3 of Thailand's major dams (and probably a lot of smaller ones) mainly because there was simply too much water.

Without going into who was at fault, it appears that too much water was in the dams already, trying to make sure there was enough water for the dry season. Water should have been released earlier, but in the scheme of things, it probably wouldn't have made that much difference to the overall result. With the amount of rain that there was, the dams would have filled up anyway and water would have still needed to be released. There was going to be flooding regardless of the dams, although the timing of the release didn't help.

edit: One of the problems with draining the water from as far as Ayutthaya is that the slope from the gulf to Ayuttaya is about 1cm for every km. Which is, essentially, flat. There are rises and falls in the land between Bangkok and Ayuttaya, but all that means is that the water will pool, and will still drain very slowly.

Edited November 4, 2011 by whybother

[ShaneJosephCormier]

I am fully in agreement with these people, why should they endure more days of flooding just to keep a few places dry! Here in Don Muang I as still experiencing rising water in my house, I will be unable to work today and will lose income because of it, why should I have a few more days of this if it can be lessened?

Because if the inner centre of Bangkok will be flooded, everything will be much more difficult to organize, communication, economy, helping other people, everything will just collapse.

I read all these posts and have listened to people complain about all these arguments since the beginning of the flood and some of you are mostly correct and some of you are mostly wrong. Everyone is looking at this situation from the perspective of who should be in charge of handling these situations, and the answer is EVERYONE. First of all, you cannot blame the current government for mismanaging anything. Thailand is no shining beacon of proper management in any way, shape of form. Additionally, you cannot blame any of the former governments for their lack of involvement either. If you do any research on Thailand's past governments you will see that they have often been ousted months, weeks and even days into their terms. How do you expect any government to make changes when after they're elected are ousted. Taksin is the only form of government who had any duration of stay in Thailand's recent history. If you're looking to place blame, you need to start with the Mafia who runs Thailand. Then ask yourself who the Mafia is comprised of before you go pointing fingers.

When you elect a leader you have to give them an opportunity to make changes before you kick them out of the office. I listen to people complain about Yinglucks administration, even before any noticeable changed have been implemented. Have any of you read anything about what they're doing? Take for example traffic. When - until recently - have you ever seen police giving out tickets to people who disobey traffic rules? If you want things to get better you have to take your medicine. I can give you a large list of positive changes the current government has implemented.

Additionally, the government is comprised of the people who were educated at your schools and worked for your businesses. They are you and you are them. Like with any society, the people are the ones who control everything, if you don't speak up then you're going to get what you're given. Global Warming, clear cutting for industrial purposes, disregarding the facts such as Thailand being #1 on the list for climatic effects, namely being prone to flooding were ignored by not only the governments, but also the people. You have a shovel don't you? Everyone knows Thailand floods, but no one built up their land before plopping a house down on the lot? I see a lot of poor people building their house off the ground on stilts. So, no one else has an excuse. To further this conversation. Bangkok contributes to the majority of Thailand's GDP (that's gross domestic profits) which means the longer it suffers the more the country suffers as a whole. Sure, it does suck the poor people are affected most, but where in the world aren't the poor people affected the most? I cant think of a single country that this isn't the case.Don't forget that Bangkok is not only tourists and shopping malls, but businesses that operate trading and sales firms for Thailand agriculture and goods manufacturing.

I think it's extremely selfish and self centered for someone to say "why should I suffer a few days more than I have to." That's basically contributing to the problem. Don't forget, without Bangkok Thailand would be even more separated. It's the countries capital. Do not forget where a lot of your jobs come from. If the capital is compromised this leads to a lot of issues such as, but not limited to, lack of faith by countries who use Thai labor to manufacture their goods. Also, a weakened capital and country could lead to invasion by other countries looking to take advantage of a situation, whether it be by force or financial. Perhaps you think the world is further along than it really is. We are not past dominant takeovers, wars, or uprisings.

You have got to look at your country as a whole and stop blaming others and pointing fingers. If you want something done then you must speak up otherwise sit down and shut up and get what you are or are not given.

[Gweiloman]

Thanks, a very enlightening post. As I understand it, due to the typhoons and subsequent deluge of water that came down from Laos and Burma, the dams basically overfilled and water therefore had to be released in order to prevent damage to the reservoirs. This in turn caused the initial flooding in Chiang Mai, Isaan etc. Would I be correct in supposing this?

The way I understand it, the flooding in Isaan and Chiang Mai was a direct result of the typhoons.

There is a mountain range between Burma and Thailand, so no water would have come from there. The rivers from Laos, and also from the Isaan plateau, flow into the Mekong and through Cambodia (hence the disastrous flooding there).

http://upload.wikime..._Topography.png

The rain from 3 typhoons in August caused flooding in the North and North East, most of which came down the Chao Phraya river system into Ayutthaya and then Bangkok. In addition to this, water was released from 3 of Thailand's major dams (and probably a lot of smaller ones) mainly because there was simply too much water.

Without going into who was at fault, it appears that too much water was in the dams already, trying to make sure there was enough water for the dry season. Water should have been released earlier, but in the scheme of things, it probably wouldn't have made that much difference to the overall result. With the amount of rain that there was, the dams would have filled up anyway and water would have still needed to be released. There was going to be flooding regardless of the dams, although the timing of the release didn't help.

edit: One of the problems with draining the water from as far as Ayutthaya is that the slope from the gulf to Ayuttaya is about 1cm for every km. Which is, essentially, flat. There are rises and falls in the land between Bangkok and Ayuttaya, but all that means is that the water will pool, and will still drain very slowly.

Thanks for the clarification.

I feel sorry for the individual (if there was one) who made the decision to hold onto the water in the dam. At another time in another place, this might have been the right call but sadly, none has the benefit of hindsight at the time the decision was made.

[whybother]

...

I feel sorry for the individual (if there was one) who made the decision to hold onto the water in the dam. At another time in another place, this might have been the right call but sadly, none has the benefit of hindsight at the time the decision was made.

Personally, I don't think this case is a matter of "having hindsight". It was no secret that the typhoons were going to dump rain on Thailand. They were dumping rain over The Philippines more than a week before they got to Thailand, and were known about before that. That was in late July (Nock-ten). Then two more hit in September. As soon as the storms were predicted to head towards Vietnam, Thailand should have expected to be hit, and should have started to do something about the high water levels in the dams. They may not have known how bad it was going to be, and it probably wasn't going to stop the flooding, but it could have reduced the effects of it, rather than releasing water when the rivers were already flooding.

Nock-ten (late July) http://en.wikipedia....n_.28Juaning.29

Nesat (mid September) http://en.wikipedia....t_.28Pedring.29

Haitang (mid September - which I think only had a minor effect in Thailand) http://en.wikipedia....l_Storm_Haitang

Nelgae (late September) http://en.wikipedia....gae_.28Quiel.29

edit: apparently there was an MP that ordered them NOT to release water and he "would take responsibility". I don't know how true that is, but I doubt we would find out who it was even it was true.

Edited November 4, 2011 by whybother

[marquess]

Thanks, a very enlightening post. As I understand it, due to the typhoons and subsequent deluge of water that came down from Laos and Burma, the dams basically overfilled and water therefore had to be released in order to prevent damage to the reservoirs. This in turn caused the initial flooding in Chiang Mai, Isaan etc. Would I be correct in supposing this?

The way I understand it, the flooding in Isaan and Chiang Mai was a direct result of the typhoons.

There is a mountain range between Burma and Thailand, so no water would have come from there. The rivers from Laos, and also from the Isaan plateau, flow into the Mekong and through Cambodia (hence the disastrous flooding there).

http://upload.wikime..._Topography.png

The rain from 3 typhoons in August caused flooding in the North and North East, most of which came down the Chao Phraya river system into Ayutthaya and then Bangkok. In addition to this, water was released from 3 of Thailand's major dams (and probably a lot of smaller ones) mainly because there was simply too much water.

Without going into who was at fault, it appears that too much water was in the dams already, trying to make sure there was enough water for the dry season. Water should have been released earlier, but in the scheme of things, it probably wouldn't have made that much difference to the overall result. With the amount of rain that there was, the dams would have filled up anyway and water would have still needed to be released. There was going to be flooding regardless of the dams, although the timing of the release didn't help.

edit: One of the problems with draining the water from as far as Ayutthaya is that the slope from the gulf to Ayuttaya is about 1cm for every km. Which is, essentially, flat. There are rises and falls in the land between Bangkok and Ayuttaya, but all that means is that the water will pool, and will still drain very slowly.

Thanks for the clarification.

I feel sorry for the individual (if there was one) who made the decision to hold onto the water in the dam. At another time in another place, this might have been the right call but sadly, none has the benefit of hindsight at the time the decision was made.

Nothing to do with hindsight, he decided to ignore sensible advise and we are now all paying the price for it!

[Gweiloman]

Whybother and Marquess

Fair points. Let's hope that these mistakes are not repeated in the future. I don't think anyone, regardless of their political leanings (except for one or two misguided posters) wants such a disaster happening again to this country that we call home.

[rubl]

I read all these posts and have listened to people complain about all these arguments since the beginning of the flood and some of you are mostly correct and some of you are mostly wrong. Everyone is looking at this situation from the perspective of who should be in charge of handling these situations, and the answer is EVERYONE. First of all, you cannot blame the current government for mismanaging anything.

... rest removed

"First of all, you cannot blame the current government for mismanaging anything."

First of all you're very wrong here. not only we 'farang' TV posters but also Thai citizens can and are blaming the current government for mismanagement. The 9th of October the "Disaster Law" was invoked so as to better control, manage the flooding problem. FROC setup at Don Meuang, relocated, maybe to be relocate again. Daily statements on 'worst over', 'flee all lost', 'under control', 'evacuate', etc., etc.

[RichardL]

edit: One of the problems with draining the water from as far as Ayutthaya is that the slope from the gulf to Ayuttaya is about 1cm for every km. Which is, essentially, flat. There are rises and falls in the land between Bangkok and Ayuttaya, but all that means is that the water will pool, and will still drain very slowly.

I thought Ayutthaya was 8m high, not 1m. Either way, it's not much of a slope.

The water levels there are supposed to be dropping. Does anyone know how far south dropping water levels have been reported? That should give some indication when a point will be reached when more water is going out than coming in.

[BuckarooBanzai]

edit: One of the problems with draining the water from as far as Ayutthaya is that the slope from the gulf to Ayuttaya is about 1cm for every km. Which is, essentially, flat. There are rises and falls in the land between Bangkok and Ayuttaya, but all that means is that the water will pool, and will still drain very slowly.

I thought Ayutthaya was 8m high, not 1m. Either way, it's not much of a slope.

The water levels there are supposed to be dropping. Does anyone know how far south dropping water levels have been reported? That should give some indication when a point will be reached when more water is going out than coming in.

I think 7cm of elevation per km is closer on average but I also think the slope becomes less the closer you get to the gulf. So the average number may not be that helpful.

Edited November 4, 2011 by BuckarooBanzai

[whybother]

edit: One of the problems with draining the water from as far as Ayutthaya is that the slope from the gulf to Ayuttaya is about 1cm for every km. Which is, essentially, flat. There are rises and falls in the land between Bangkok and Ayuttaya, but all that means is that the water will pool, and will still drain very slowly.

I thought Ayutthaya was 8m high, not 1m. Either way, it's not much of a slope.

The water levels there are supposed to be dropping. Does anyone know how far south dropping water levels have been reported? That should give some indication when a point will be reached when more water is going out than coming in.

I think 7cm of elevation per km is closer on average but I also think the slope becomes less the closer you get to the gulf. So the average number may not be that helpful.

According to wiki:

The Lower Central plain from the delta north to Ang Thong Province is a flat, low area with an average of 2m above sea level.

Ang Thong is north of Ayutthaya. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chao_Phraya

[robblok]

edit: One of the problems with draining the water from as far as Ayutthaya is that the slope from the gulf to Ayuttaya is about 1cm for every km. Which is, essentially, flat. There are rises and falls in the land between Bangkok and Ayuttaya, but all that means is that the water will pool, and will still drain very slowly.

I thought Ayutthaya was 8m high, not 1m. Either way, it's not much of a slope.

The water levels there are supposed to be dropping. Does anyone know how far south dropping water levels have been reported? That should give some indication when a point will be reached when more water is going out than coming in.

Richard, here in Bang Yai say 20 km above BKK the water has been dropping since 3 days around 2 cm per day. Still a lot of cm to go. It went something like 7 days of rising, then a 5 days stable levels and then it started to drop.

[robblok]

edit: One of the problems with draining the water from as far as Ayutthaya is that the slope from the gulf to Ayuttaya is about 1cm for every km. Which is, essentially, flat. There are rises and falls in the land between Bangkok and Ayuttaya, but all that means is that the water will pool, and will still drain very slowly.

I thought Ayutthaya was 8m high, not 1m. Either way, it's not much of a slope.

The water levels there are supposed to be dropping. Does anyone know how far south dropping water levels have been reported? That should give some indication when a point will be reached when more water is going out than coming in.

I think 7cm of elevation per km is closer on average but I also think the slope becomes less the closer you get to the gulf. So the average number may not be that helpful.

I think you are right because just looked it up its 8 meters above sea level. So wybother his nrs are more off then yours. But you are right the closer you get to BKK the lesser the slope gets.

[frodo]

Oxygen levels in treated tap water rise after big bag barriers in place at Chula sluice gate, Rangsit Canal; less runoff in Klong Prapa (from news and tweets)

Now that they've placed barriers at klong 1 (Chula gate) and the Rangsit canal to stop it from entering Don Mueang, what do they plan on doing with the water buildup above these barriers? There's still a lot of water coming down from the north and having shut off the water gates on klongs 8-10...that's a lot of water building up. Just when the water levels were starting to decrease in my area they build barriers to keep it in. I hope they have a plan.

[robblok]

Ayutthaya, with a latitude of 14.35 (14° 20' 60 N) and a longitude of 100.55 (100° 32' 60 E), is a populated place (captial of a first-order administrative division) located in the area / state of Phra Nakhon Si Ayu in Thailand that is a part of Asia.

The location is situated 93 kilometers south east (141°) of the approximate center of Thailand and 67 kilometers north (3°) of the captial Bangkok.

A 10 square km area around Ayutthaya has an aproximate population of 81962 (0.00082 persons per square meter) and an average elevation of 11 meters above the sea.

Strange that there are different elevations to be found.

[whybother]

Ayutthaya, with a latitude of 14.35 (14° 20' 60 N) and a longitude of 100.55 (100° 32' 60 E), is a populated place (captial of a first-order administrative division) located in the area / state of Phra Nakhon Si Ayu in Thailand that is a part of Asia.

The location is situated 93 kilometers south east (141°) of the approximate center of Thailand and 67 kilometers north (3°) of the captial Bangkok.

A 10 square km area around Ayutthaya has an aproximate population of 81962 (0.00082 persons per square meter) and an average elevation of 11 meters above the sea.

Strange that there are different elevations to be found.

The province (or the town) has an "average elevation of 11 meters above the sea."

The quote above talks about the river.

Either way, there isn't much slope to help the flooded areas drain.

[robblok]

Ayutthaya, with a latitude of 14.35 (14° 20' 60 N) and a longitude of 100.55 (100° 32' 60 E), is a populated place (captial of a first-order administrative division) located in the area / state of Phra Nakhon Si Ayu in Thailand that is a part of Asia.

The location is situated 93 kilometers south east (141°) of the approximate center of Thailand and 67 kilometers north (3°) of the captial Bangkok.

A 10 square km area around Ayutthaya has an aproximate population of 81962 (0.00082 persons per square meter) and an average elevation of 11 meters above the sea.

Strange that there are different elevations to be found.

The province (or the town) has an "average elevation of 11 meters above the sea."

The quote above talks about the river.

Either way, there isn't much slope to help the flooded areas drain.

The water is not in the rivers its on land, that is kinda the problem. But the slope seems to be a lot more then you said, and keep saying. But even 7 cm per km is not much.

[RichardL]

edit: One of the problems with draining the water from as far as Ayutthaya is that the slope from the gulf to Ayuttaya is about 1cm for every km. Which is, essentially, flat. There are rises and falls in the land between Bangkok and Ayuttaya, but all that means is that the water will pool, and will still drain very slowly.

I thought Ayutthaya was 8m high, not 1m. Either way, it's not much of a slope.

The water levels there are supposed to be dropping. Does anyone know how far south dropping water levels have been reported? That should give some indication when a point will be reached when more water is going out than coming in.

Richard, here in Bang Yai say 20 km above BKK the water has been dropping since 3 days around 2 cm per day. Still a lot of cm to go. It went something like 7 days of rising, then a 5 days stable levels and then it started to drop.

So I wonder how long until the lower water levels reach Pathum Thani at least. I'm no expert (but nor do the experts seem to be) but I'd have thought once water there starts going down, then we are at the beginning of the end of the crisis.