Thai Non Resident Bank Accounts - Should I Bother?

[pkrv]

Next year I will take possession of a new condominium in Bangkok (The Park Residence Chidlom).

As such I have been pondering how to go about paying bills (Electricity, Water, Phone) etc. I will initially be non-resident.

I note that Bangkok Bank has an excellent web site and info on this subject and indeed there are a number of useful threads on banking on this site.

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=15705&hl=

http://www.bbl.co.th/Bangkok+Bank/Personal...Questions.htm#1

Unfortunately for a non resident it appears that all transactions must be conducted using a non residence account held at the Head Office, 333 Silom Road, Bangkok, and done over the counter plus there is no internet service. I assume this could still be used to set up direct debits?

However is it just simpler to set up direct debits with the suppliers using my UK American Express credit card? Will the suppliers accept this?

Will I run into any difficulties with this approach? I note that you need to prove an income to retire in Thailand and as such must have a residence bank account to prove this. So there must be some leeway here.

[Firefan]

How are you gonna pay for the condo? For foreign ownership registration you need to prove the money was wired in (old TT3 now call foreign transaction - something).

So you need to be here and open a bank account. No problem opening a normal savings account at BKK Bank on a 30 day entry stamp only. Go to the main BKK Bank department on Silom where I did it. The "non-resident" account is special in several ways (can keep foreign currency/have to prove where the money came from/easy to wire money out again/no interest paid and so forth) but all you need is the normal Thai saving account.

After that you can set up most bills for auto payment/direct debit. I have done that with all, except water/management fees where not possible as paid directly to building management (in my case). Water is easy - as very little = I give management 1000 Baht if travel long time, and management fees are only once a year.

On some of the bills Visa payments are also mentioned as acceptable - Amex is not (on the ones I have checked).

Cheers!

[pkrv]

Firefan - Very many thanks for this info. An ordinary savings account will be fine for my purposes. Can you get a credit card and Internet banking with that?

Payment for the Condo - I do this using

http://www.worldfirst.com/

For amounts over £10,000 you get the real exchange rate (I know I have live access to these) minus 0.6 points. There are no other fees. I simply supply them with all the information SWIFT codes etc and also have a subject/reason for transfer line stating what the money is for. This is all actually quite straightforward. The money goes directly to the developers account.

http://www.theparkresidence.co.th/

Did it take long to 'activate' be able to use the account once you opened it?

Again many thanks PKRV

[lopburi3]

As said above you want a normal passbook savings account and I expect you will want ATM access for it (extra 100 baht a year or such but very convenient). Once you have bought the condo you can probably also get internet access (with address proof) but it is really not that necessary as most things can just as easily be done on voice prompt telephone or at an ATM. Any Bank branch can be used to open such an account but some will not be bothered and give reasons not to do so - just walk next door and the weather can change.

[Firefan]

A few warning flags here pkrv.

In order to get the condo in your name you need official proof that the money came IN FOREIGN CURRENCY + FROM ABROAD.

Only acceptable proof to land department: TT3/FETF.

If the money is exchanged to baht at worldfirst and THEN wired - you have little acceptable proof. The land department wants a TT3 (old name) now called foreign exchange transaction form, and the BANK (not developer) issues this.

You need to check this with bank as well as developer. If developer say you do not need - ask them if you would not need at land department - or even when selling/wanting to take money/profit out of Thailand.

Cheers!

[Firefan]

Lopburi already answered your atm card question. It can even be a VISA electron one you can use abroad (but not on internet).

Online banking is a bit harder as they require work permit. I got it with my house registration book though (and a non-em b visa).

Cheers!

[lopburi3]

Firefan - Very many thanks for this info. An ordinary savings account will be fine for my purposes. Can you get a credit card and Internet banking with that?

Payment for the Condo - I do this using

http://www.worldfirst.com/

For amounts over £10,000 you get the real exchange rate (I know I have live access to these) minus 0.6 points. There are no other fees. I simply supply them with all the information SWIFT codes etc and also have a subject/reason for transfer line stating what the money is for. This is all actually quite straightforward. The money goes directly to the developers account.

http://www.theparkresidence.co.th/

Did it take long to 'activate' be able to use the account once you opened it?

Again many thanks PKRV

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

If by "points" you mean the full rate less .06% = 99.4% that is a 60 pound hit on that transaction - not exactly a great deal. You get the full rate when you do a normal bank SWIFT transfer but pay perhaps 30-40 pounds in fees. I do hope that this is a pound transfer and not based on the UK exchange rates.

Developers account? I would check very closely the legal aspects and I hope the building have been completed and all is legal. Do not trust anything to do with land/condo/autos without closely checking.

[pkrv]

Firefan, again many thanks for the update on Internet banking and VISA. There seems to be no hard and fast rules I get the impression if you can pay in Thailand you get it if you can't go away...

Also thanks for the reminder on that document. I believe it will be issued by the Krung Thai bank (Thailand's second largest?) however I am now diligently pursuing with the developer.

These things are always worrying, and I have posted before on Thaivisa.com and the results were very encouraging.

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=39330&hl=

Lopburi3 also thanks for the input - On the Foreign Exchange (FX) most banks will quote you an internal rate for exchange and then add a fee. Needless to say the rate you are quoted incorporates a (usually) hefty fee, which because it is not transparent is often overlooked.

At this second worldfirst.com are offering 70.8 GBP/THB <see private & currency converter> so I would expect 70.2 no other fees. It's a question of comparing the rate and fees together.

However if you have found someone else who is better please let me know!

[george]

Bangkok Bank require work permit to open internet banking.

[lopburi3]

Hard to compare without full knowledge but if you indeed do get 70.2 baht for each pound it sounds good. But they also say the rate are "indicative" so they do not seem to be real in my English usage. Did you read the fine print on that page:

The rates in the Currency Transfer calculator are for amounts over £1 million and are NOT the rates you will necessarily receive. Please contact us for accurate rates. This table uses the GBPEUR convention, if your exchange rate is around 0.6800, please enter the reciprocal i.e. 1 / by 0.68 = 1.4706. These rates should not be relied upon and World First accepts no liability for their misuse.

[Firefan]

Lop; we are talking a 14M Baht condo so such a diff. in rates is indeed not pocket change (to me at least ). Also note that pkrv mentions he has access to live rates - so I am sure he could gain/save well in the transaction mentioned.

I DO still wonder how the FETF will be issued if the money goes straight to the developers account - but maybe the developer have a special deal with the bank?

george: Yes work permit is needed officially for internet banking but TiT and when I slapped my yellow tabien bahn on the desk the day before yesterday, they (BKK Bank Silom) checked with manager + checked my non-em b and accepted it.

Cheers!

[lopburi3]

The rates I received were the same as he quoted but the fine print says that they are not what you will receive. The 6 points is the real problem for me as he does not seem to have a firm definition of what that is (and it would seem vital to know). They also say in another section they do not provide the quoted rate (which they call the mid rate) but will be closer than other banks. They also do not say if baht or pounds is being transferred anywhere obvious. I don't trust web sites to be what they appear!

[pkrv]

I note that I believe a moderator of the forum <George?> took note - no adverts.... And I agree.

Lopburi3. I did not say that! If you engage these people they will enter into an agreement with you and it is utterly binding. I’m afraid you eat what you can kill (oddly protected by the FSA) however if you transfer money less than £10,000 then pay the bill I think it is £15 wow but I have not done this.

I can confirm the amount arrives at the destination, there was however an unexpected charge by the Thai bank of some 600 Baht.

These things are binding, voice recorded you need passports etc…

[pkrv]

Opps be careful. It takes about three days to transfer cash between UK accounts. These guys quote 'spot' that takes place 2 working days later all destinations all holidays covered.

So if you use them your funds must be with them on time! all part of the fun and games. Specify when your funds will arrive!

Can anyone else get a better rate?

PKRV

[lopburi3]

I note that I believe a moderator of the forum <George?> took note - no adverts.... And I agree.

Lopburi3. I did not say that! If you engage these people they will enter into an agreement with you and it is utterly binding. I’m afraid you eat what you can kill (oddly protected by the FSA) however if you transfer money less than £10,000 then pay the bill I think it is £15 wow but I have not done this.

I can confirm the amount arrives at the destination, there was however an unexpected charge by the Thai bank of some 600 Baht.

These things are binding, voice recorded you need passports etc…

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

What did you not say? What you did say was that you did not know the rate you would really receive. You did not give any example outlining a transfer so we only had that "I would expect" to base a check on. As I said if you indeed receive that rate it sounds like a good deal but I would want to see an example outlined. Now you come back and ask if anybody can get a better rate but do not provide the information of what rate you got when for what. I am not trying to argue with you but until the figures are provided how can we make a judgement?

At this second worldfirst.com are offering 70.8 GBP/THB <see private & currency converter> so I would expect 70.2 no other fees.

[pkrv]

These guys are effectively voice brokers and conduct deals verbally, then email you a copy of the trade, i.e. settlement instructions. You are quoted a rate and if you agree it is binding the trade takes place the moment you agree. I'm afraid the world of FX is quite cut throat and to be honest I would be reluctant to advise in this area. The most I will say is that I have used these guys and am happy with them possibly because I understand the nature of the market. By the way some 2,100 billion (USD equivalent) is traded each day in FX!

To use them you must set up an account. But if you phone them and explain upfront you are just after a quote that’s fine, they are after all sales people and are eager for new business.

I guess it seems odd to trade via the phone but historically that is how FX was traded. There are indeed still active voice brokers in the city (of London) though they are being slowly displaced by electronic trading systems like Reuters Dealing 3000 (conversation-1 and matching-2) and EBS.

Apologies if my emails sound a little cold its simply because I am most definitely not offering advice. If things go wrong with my money that’s my fault, however I am happy to explain what I am doing. I will be making another transfer in the next week or so but will again go to several institutions to test the market.

To say thanks for your help I will post the result.