Midnight Ban On Alcohol Now In Effect

[Xeque]

OK. Enough!

I first came to Pattaya in the 1960's when it was a sleepy little fishing town that aspired to attract overseas visitors with its Asian charm. Many of us, expatriates working in the middle east, discovered the place and made it a haven of (looked forward to) sanity from the cr@p we were made to swallow in places like Saudi Arabia and Kuwait.

Yes. We did enjoy the 'fruits' that Thailand had to offer. We met girls who were ten thousand percent more accommodating than where we came from and certainly where we were living and working at the time. Yes, we lazed on clean sandy beaches and drank beer whenever we felt like it. Yes! It was the ultimate dream!

Pattaya was peaceful and tranquil. Most of it was concentrated in the area we now know as Walking Street. North of that, along the Beach Road was mostly jungle and what is now known as Pattaya Nua was the main route in off the single lane road from Bangkok that took 4 hours or more to traverse.

It was idyllic and I remember sitting on the beach just up from where the Siam Bayshore Hotel is today and thinking that this was a place I wanted to come and spend the rest of my days.

I did end up doing that but, sadly, it was 40 years later and by then it was too late. As I have mentioned in earlier posts, I live outside Pattaya. In fact I am some 18K to the east in a very rural and beautiful area and when I do go into Pattaya it is usually to get the bus into Bangkok.

But Pattaya. Poor Pattaya. Now look at it! It is a sh@thole of violence, corruption, prostitution, drugs and god knows what else. And who made it this way?? We (Farangs) made it this way with our insatiable appetite for booze, drugs and sex.

CTM. There is nothing moronic about pointing out a truth. We screwed this place up all by ourselves aided and abetted by a travel industry in Europe that sold the concept of "sex tours" and a local tourist industry that (then) had no idea what it was getting into. For Christ's sake, Lufthansa (aka Condor) brought whole 'plane loads of German soldiers here on RNR for the sole purpose of getting laid, setting up the heavy German presence in Jomtien now.

Noel. You are a prick. I never preached. I merely pointed out our responsibilities as expatriates here. If you can't see that that then I have to place you in amongst the rest of the shaven headed, tattoed yobos who do none of us any credit by their presence here. And if you would like me to be really bitchy then, taking into account the sexual preferences of your alto ego Noel Coward, why are you here?

[PanzerJohn]

All we've had so far is rumour and suppostion. The only one to come up with any concrete evidence is Dave Thailand, as usual,and even what he's been told is second hand and vague as to how this will affect the bars. Surely someone, somewhere, must know the facts about what is going to be very contentious piece of legislation.

[John K]

I just did a SMS with a friend of mine who is a bar manager, he said he has no word that bars are involved with this. It may be one of the 60-20-20 things. If it is true the next news clipping may read. “Sudden glut of property for sale in Thailand.”

[britmaveric]

Xeque - what you fail to realize Patters is tame in comparison to 1000(s) of other places in the world. I feel safer in Patters than most place in the world.

All the vices you complain about so easily in Thailand - it was made made way before farangs set eyes on it. The biggest problems are with Thai(s) not farang, however you know that I think.

On a lighter note last few weeks has been quiet on the farang death/robbery front.

[cobra]

well i'm here for the temples so suits me sir 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

ah, yeah, me too,

[Buff-horns]

Tough new law on alcohol sales takes effect on New Year's Day

Wichit Chantanusornsiri

People who enjoy a tipple will wake up on New Year's Day to find no alcoholic drinks on sale in shops at petrol stations or near schools and temples.

Finance Minister Thanong Bidaya has launched a tougher law to ban sales of alcohol in these places and reduce the sales time to only 10 hours a day in a fresh effort to control alcohol consumption, Excise Department director Uthit Thammawathin said yesterday.

The consumption of alcohol is seen as a major cause of violence and accidents nationwide.

The law, which will take effect on Jan 1, will allow for the sale of alcoholic drinks only between 11am and 2pm, and 5pm and midnight, he said.

Shops will not be allowed to sell alcohol to teenagers under 18 years old.

According to the department, up to 585,200 outlets allowed to sell alcohol will see their licences expire at the end of this year.

Among them are those selling alcoholic drinks in nearly 10,000 petrol stations nationwide.

Mr Uthit said the law would reduce excise tax collection by about 10-20%, but his department would compensate for the loss by making its collection more efficient

bkkpost.com

[RDN]

...On a lighter note last few weeks has been quiet on the farang death/robbery front.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

In Phuket, it's going the other way....

Dutchman rams gunmen into power pole

PHUKET: A Dutchman turned the tables on two men who allegedly fired a gun at him as he drove his pickup along Chao Fa West Rd yesterday morning, chasing them down and ramming their motorbike into a power pole.

One of the two men was killed, the other seriously injured.

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=50490

[RDN]

Friday, November 18, 2005

Alcohol sale rules tightened

PHUKET: The hours when alcohol may be sold in shops and supermarkets are to be shortened with effect from January 1, 2006, the Phuket Provincial Excise Office has announced, after receiving orders from Minister of Finance Thanong Bidaya.

From New Year’s Day, sales of alcohol in retail outlets will be allowed only between 11 am and 2 pm, and between 5 pm and midnight. Currently, the evening sales hours are 5 pm to 2 am.

In addition, shops at gas stations will be barred from selling alcohol at any time, as will shops “near” schools or places of worship. The term “near” was not defined.

Phuket, Thailand

16:44 local time (GMT +7)

http://www.phuketgazette.net/news/index.asp?id=4642

[MyFriend You]

I dont think it will effect the tourist trade a great deal.  Sure some people will not come here because of the drinking laws but the families that come over here every year will still come, maybe more if Thailand is seen as less of a nightime entertainment place. 

On the other hand the guys that come here for the women will still be able to get their women, just off to the hotel a little earlier.

I didn't notice a significant decrease in the tourist trade when the all night drinking venues all had to shut down at 2am, and then later in certain areas at 1am.

I dont think it affected the tourism revenue at all in fact.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Nah will always be places - same shi*e different day.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Come down to Jakarta man, You wouldn't know it was "the most populace muslim country in the world" by all the bars and clubs in the city, chicks, booze, drugs, Rave clubbers, rich & poor, Bars & Clubs open until 5 am - some don't even open until 11PM Its the the best kept secret in SE Asia Ooooops let it slip now the secrets out - come to Jakarta for your next Visa run, Block M, Jalan Jacksa,

[Mighty Mouse]

Take pity on the seasoned, all night drinkers.

If booze is cut off at midnight, how can they sleep? They are used to going to bed after sun rise, not during hours of darkness.

Currently they go home to bed well after the neighbourhood rooster has crowed in the new day. Soon, they won't be able to rely upon a drunken stupor to block out the noises of early morning activities.

Their health is sure to suffer.

..............and give a thought to all those police officers whose shift allowance will soon be cut as their late night services will no longer be required.

On the good side, most venues will now have to put on happy hour a lot earlier in the day.

[The Dude]

...Is this America all of a sudden LOL, ?...

Last time I checked you could get drinks in the US until 2 AM. In the UK however........

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

The USA has 50 states and 50 separate laws regarding alcohol sales. Can you dig that? Examples:

NY: can buy only beer to 4am cept Sunday, must wait till noon (4am-noon no sales) bars open till 4am

CA: 2am daily on everything

AZ: 1am daily everything

CT: no beer/alcohol sales in stores after 8 pm daily or sundays, bars open late

ETC

[The Dude]

Jakarta has hotter chicks too

[Noel]

Noel.  You are a prick.  I never preached.  I merely pointed out our responsibilities as expatriates here.  If you can't see that that then I have to place you in amongst the rest of the shaven headed, tattoed yobos who do none of us any credit by their presence here.  And if you would like me to be really bitchy then, taking into account the sexual preferences of your alto ego Noel Coward, why are you here?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Hmmm, it would seem the ‘cheap shot’ that you wrongly accused me of discharging hit you squarely between the eyes! Your conscience was well and truly ‘pricked’ by the look if it.

You never preached? Let me remind you of your words:

We are all to blame here - visitors, expatriate residents and Thai's alike.  If there is an effort to clean it all up then we should support it and not pander to our own selfish desires and expectations.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

There was of course also your classic line:

…no tourist in their right mind should be out and about after midnight for their own safety in such a wicked town.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

The moralistic and supercilious tone of the above fits any definition of preaching in my view. So should I now go out and get my head shaved before a visit to a tattoo artist?

To come out with such an unprovoked personal attack only goes to confirm that my comments hit an open nerve and you are unable to control your temper.

At least you were eventually honest enough to admit that your original purpose for coming to Pattaya was for sex, although it does beg the question as to why you chose to adopt a ‘holier than thou’ attitude as you trod the moral high ground using such puritanical prose as ‘wicked’.

Perhaps your bitterness stems from reminiscing those halcyon days of forty years ago.

If you wish to continue with the puerile personal attacks, I will be happy to meet up so you can make them to my face.

If you need directions as to how to get to Pattaya, just shout...

[cdnvic]

Both of you tone it down. This isn't a schoolyard, stop acting like it.

[ray23]

Both of you tone it down. This isn't a schoolyard, stop acting like it.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

For the guys who want to know why go to Thailand nothing has changed it's just smoke and mirrors. Remember those who live here including me, have a lot of time to be critical. So it might not be a bad idea to just ignore us from time to time.

Personally I research other places all the time, at least on the internet, so far I'm still here.

[raybkk]

[These hours do not apply to transactions in wholesale quantities.

Just exactly how much do I have to drink in order for it to be regarded as wholesale ??

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

10 liters as stated at foodland patpong.

[zzap]

Serious drinkers may still stock up as 'wholesale'.

BTW, I haven't noticed any restrictions in the small shops (yet).

[mouse]

Maybe not a bad idea after all. Most farangs living here have a drinking problem after a few years. Thais have a drinking problem, period. Time to get serious with this issue.

Ice tea in all the GoGos for 50 baht 

My dear friend there are many farang living here that do not drink much as in any other nation. To make a statement such as yours above is ludricrous.

[denby45]

Isn't it strange that most of the dissent here seems to come from farangs.

It is worth reminding ourselves that we are guests in someone elses country and that the administration is seeking to control something that really does need a measure of control.

Laws such as this, restricting drinking hours,  have been in force in european countries for many, many years for exactly the same reasons that the authorities here are seeking to enforce them.  The UK has been (until recently) no exception. 

My fellow contributor (Noel) finds it funny that I would describe Pattaya as a 'wicked town'.  Go into the websites of the Bangkok Post or the local Pattaya papers and look up how many murders there have been in the last 10 days including the Editor of one of those newspapers.  Look at the late night carnage on the roads and (above all else) look at the ghoulish delight with which the local Cable TV stations carefully record each scene in all it's gory detail, including a suicide (Don't jump just yet luvvy - we haven't got the light right).

We are all to blame here - visitors, expatriate residents and Thai's alike.  If there is an effort to clean it all up then we should support it and not pander to our own selfish desires and expectations.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Sorry Xeque but I have to totally disagree with your statements here. I went to work in Belgium for a few months and liked it so much I have been there for 15 years. one of the things among many others, that attracted me, was the fact that the Belgians had a totally different approach to an evening out. Totaly missing from their culture were the weekend yobs and beer swilling thugs who cram as much beer down their necks as they possibly can before the bell rings. Only to then spill out onto the streets for the preverbial punch up. Strange thing is the Belgians can and do drink all night long especially in Antwerp where I live with very little or no trouble.

As far as I know the UK have followed suit primarily for that reason. I don't expect the UK mentality will change overnight, after all the Belgians have been used to this for many years. Anyway as always I'm hopeful of the outcome and I do hope you are better informed about our continental friends.

Den

[opothai]

what can one say,

i just feel sad, normally i read the news articles for fun and a good laugh at toxin and co and thier idiotic, pathetic atempts at running a country, but this one.

Edited November 19, 2005 by opothai

[maprao]

Sad news ! Those people (farang tourists) who support this should take a long hard look at why the vast majority of tourists go to Thailand. Certainly in places like Pattaya 70 to 80 % of tourists are there for one reason and one reason alone and to get and the ladies. People who say that Thailand does not need these people have probably been going there for years settled and have adopted the "reformed smoker" attitude

I think that this is primarily aimed at the Thai population. Thailand is and will remain my home from home. However my hard earned $ will be spent on my next holiday where I can have a beer on the beach, buy shrimp off beach traders haggle for wallets I really do not want or need

For those of you who may want to do as you please, drink and shop where you please when you please I hear Goa is a nice place. For those of you who go to pattaya for all the wrong reasons (as some would think) the ladies are as pretty, if not more so and cheaper.

My very large budget put aside for a holiday is going to another country and not Thailand. The country I hope to retire in and have invested heavily in. I wonder how many other farang will do the same? If only 10% of repeat regular visitors do the same that represents bad news for the Thai tourist industry

When I am old and crusty and have adopted the "reformed smoker" attitude I will post my pleasure at these draconian measures. Less tourists will definately bring the cost of living down in Thailand

Sorry bit off topic but good for Thai population general health (no booze) very bad for tourism indeed.

[pepsi666]

Sad news ! Those people (farang tourists) who support this should take a long hard look at why the vast majority of tourists go to Thailand.   Certainly in places like Pattaya 70 to 80 % of tourists are there for one reason and one reason alone and to get and the ladies. People who say that Thailand does not need these people have probably been going there for years settled and have adopted the "reformed smoker" attitude

I think that this is primarily aimed at the Thai population. Thailand is and will remain my home from home. However my hard earned $ will be spent on my next holiday where I can have a beer on the beach, buy shrimp off beach traders haggle for wallets I really do not want or need

For those of you who may want to do as you please, drink and shop where you please when you please I hear Goa is a nice place. For those of you who go to pattaya for all the wrong reasons (as some would think) the ladies are as pretty, if not more so and cheaper.

My very large budget put aside for a holiday is going to another country and not Thailand.  The country I hope to retire in and have invested heavily in. I wonder how many other farang will do the same? If only 10% of repeat regular visitors do the same that represents bad news for the Thai tourist industry

When I am old and crusty and have adopted the "reformed smoker" attitude I will post my pleasure at these draconian measures. Less tourists will definately bring the cost of living down in Thailand 

Sorry bit off topic but good for Thai population general health (no booze)  very bad for tourism indeed.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Same as this guy, I have bought a place in Thailand and hope to retire out there, but I dont like being told what I have to go to bed, and I dont get 'pissed up anfd leap out of windows' or throw up, I consider my self a guest in whatever country I am in and treat it as such, lets face it, you can be slung out whenever they like, especially if you bring yourself to anyones notice, but as someone actually said, not all farangs get druk, they are they for the love of Thailand and the people, not just the booze and punch ups, we can have them at home and cheaper (if the flights are included in a few nights out)

[jrincon17]

...Is this America all of a sudden LOL, ?...

Last time I checked you could get drinks in the US until 2 AM. In the UK however........

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

And you can buy liquor 24 hours a day at 7-11s and 24-hour markets in most states.

My only question about this is it's effect on holiday celebrations, such as New Year's Eve. At my age, midnight is well past what I expect to by my personal "curfew" for being out and about on most nights. But a few holidays a year are an exception to that. So the clock strikes 12 on New Year's Eve, and the party's over?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

No you cant ! what state are you in ? confusion!

[Slipperysid]

I dont think it will effect the tourist trade a great deal.  Sure some people will not come here because of the drinking laws but the families that come over here every year will still come, maybe more if Thailand is seen as less of a nightime entertainment place. 

On the other hand the guys that come here for the women will still be able to get their women, just off to the hotel a little earlier.

I didn't notice a significant decrease in the tourist trade when the all night drinking venues all had to shut down at 2am, and then later in certain areas at 1am.

I dont think it affected the tourism revenue at all in fact.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Nah will always be places - same shi*e different day.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Come down to Jakarta man, You wouldn't know it was "the most populace muslim country in the world" by all the bars and clubs in the city, chicks, booze, drugs, Rave clubbers, rich & poor, Bars & Clubs open until 5 am - some don't even open until 11PM Its the the best kept secret in SE Asia Ooooops let it slip now the secrets out - come to Jakarta for your next Visa run, Block M, Jalan Jacksa,

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Hey , you could even get blown up ! NO THANKS.

[patsfangr]

QUOTE(Veazer @ 2005-11-17 11:05:45

And you can buy liquor 24 hours a day at 7-11s and 24-hour markets in most states.

My only question about this is it's effect on holiday celebrations, such as New Year's Eve. At my age, midnight is well past what I expect to by my personal "curfew" for being out and about on most nights. But a few holidays a year are an exception to that. So the clock strikes 12 on New Year's Eve, and the party's over?

[right)

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/right]

No you cant ! what state are you in ? confusion!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Did I mention that midnight is well past my personal curfew? Shows you how long it's been since this old dude has tried to buy liquor after midnight.

Seriously, though. Unless you're a young party animal, I don't think these restrictions are going to be a significant problem for you.

I drink regularly, and intend to continue to do so when my wife and I move to my house in Pattaya next April. I'll do some of that drinking in bars, and some at home. At home, I'll still be able to decide at what hours I want to drink, and how much I want to drink. If I want to drink at a bar, I'll simply plan to do so during the hours when they can legally serve me liquor.

But, that said, I still disagree with these restrictions, philosophically. I agree with those who say that those who are prone to get too drunk, and cause trouble when they do so, will not be detered from doing so by changing the time of day when alcohol is available to them. Personally, I favor education over legislation, and freedom of choice over government control.

I favor legalization of all drugs, for adults. Let people decide for themselves what they want to put into their bodies, and what affects from those drugs they want to experience. Every drug has risks associated with it, albeit to significantly varied degrees. I happen to believe that alcohol, in moderation, poses no sigificant risk to my health, or my relationship with my friends and family. I tried marijuana many years ago, and just didn't like it as well as alcohol. I assess the risk of cocaine, heroin, and other such drugs, as being a higher than I care expose myself to, so I've never touched any of them, and never will. But if other individuals choose to expose themselves to those risks, it's their business - and, of course, that of the families who might suffer emotionally as a result of that decision.

The caveat that I put with that is that such decisions must not be allowed to damage others. Therefore, penalties for damage or injury that are caused by a person under the influence of any drug, including alcohol, should be severe.

Bottom line: If it doesn't hurt anyone but you, do whatever the h*ll you want. It shouldn't be anyone's business but your own. My philosophy regarding freedom is pretty much in line with the adage: "Your right to throw a punch stops just short of the end of my nose!"

[gburns57au]

For crying out loud people......these laws do not apply to bars and clubs....only to the service stations, mini marts etc...

All they are doing is tightening up an existing split hour law that is already in place for non entertainment retailers of booze. The only way it will affect bar drinking is if you want to pick up some beers on the way home after the bar has shut.

all this talk about bars and tourism is totally irrelevent to this topic

[jomama]

Must be the latest from the Ministry of Crackdowns -- I posted this earlier in the week, and perhaps is relevant to this discussion:

------------------

The Government has announced the formation of a new body, the Ministry of Crackdowns, for the announcement of all future crackdowns.

Jaitong Chaoeronthaitongdeepratetdeekul will oversee the new entity.

“We felt that it was important to give the new Ministry full announcement powers,” he said. “It seems some people have misunderstood previous crackdowns.”

“Some thought we were cracked, while others thought we had Down’s Syndrome, and some said we are on crack, and that is simply not the case -- we’re going have to crack down on that.”

He added that Ministry status will give the announcements more power because they are not always noted due to their lack of forethought or enforcement capabilities.

“Some people have thought they can ignore these crackdowns and go on with their normal lives,” he said.

The first of his daily crackdowns announced yesterday was on bald people. “It is bad for the country’s image to have all these people walking around without any hair on,” he said.

The second was on public discussion of the country’s plants and animals. “This is our heritage, after all,” he noted.

The Ministry has been formulated as a sub-hub along with the Ministry of Hubs under the umbrella of the larger Ministry of Social Order and Thought Chaos.

“We have much to do,” he said, but added that he can see a day when the Ministry will no longer be needed.

“Yes, there could be a day when we have to crack down on crackdowns, but I believe that will happen only after we achieve full hub status.”

[udon]

For crying out loud people......these laws do not apply to bars and clubs....only to the service stations, mini marts etc...

All they are doing is tightening up an existing split hour law that is already in place for non entertainment retailers of booze. The only way it will affect bar drinking is if you want to pick up some beers on the way home after the bar has shut.

all this talk about bars and tourism is totally irrelevent to this topic

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Well, someone should tell that guy with the whingeing voice on radio bkk.

[Mr Ling Noi]

Unbelievable!! What about those of us, which there are many, who don’t manage to finish work till later in the evening or work irregular hours, by the time I get home, eat, shower, I am lucky to go have a beer by 10.30pm not including travel time.

Then there are the Thais that work in these establishments that will suffer from less work hours etc.

Whats going on here? I think the posts about control are spot on.

This will not stop the children, teenagers, etc from drinking, as I have learnt, if you want booze at any age it is not that difficult, just ask someone to buy it for you, or here in LOS just buy it your self.

Lowering the closing hours of bars, clubs etc, does not stop teenagers from buying drink at the small local stores that are overlooked by the police cause they don’t even have enough to pay the ‘no receipt taxes’ to the boys in brown.

I really can’t say that I have seen that many young Thais hanging out in the sort of establishment that this law affects, mostly the are in the parks, on the street, in someones house where nobody gives a sh*t. That’s where the problem is, the fact that most just don’t seem to give a sh*t .

Education is the only way they can stop this problem. I think that trying to hide, or block, everything just makes people more curious. As a young man when I see some guy sick in the gutter that would turns me off drinking to much.

This whole idea seems childish. I don’t see the advantages for the masses, only the minority.

[udon]

Loss of jobs.

I was thinking about a (24HR) gas station near where I lived in BKK.

With the shortened hours for gas sales, some of the young staff lost their jobs, with the no booze sales decree, even more will lose their jobs.

Just another example of this stupid gov't not thinking things through properly.

A good example of "cause & effect"

How many youngsters will be forced in to prostitution....... AGAIN!