Best Area Of Thailand To Set Up A Small Farm ?

[tebee]

Ah I wish I had found this forum before, there seems to be so many knowledgeable and friendly people here. Now I know this a rather vague question as the right answer depends on so many things but I'm happy with whatever vague answers you can give me as there are a lot of things I'm uncertain about at the moment.

Let me give you some background as to why I ask this. My dear beloved wife has been flooded out of here nice new house in the North of Bangkok. On our evening chat the other day she announced she wants to sell up in BKK and by a little farm somewhere up-country. It is,apparently, part of my spousal duties to decide where this should be even though I've never been anywhere in the country other in BangkoK( I always come to see her rather than to travel ). Now it could just be that those duties simply consist in making suggestions until I come up with the one she has already decided upon, but it would be nice to be able to make some informed suggestions. We had been talking about doing something similar back here ( Europe) as I didn't really want to move to Bangkok, but she is less than keen on out winters here

To give you a bit about our backgrounds. I've always thought of her a a city girl, she's a professional, a TCM Doctor (properly qualified, she make a good living from it a bit more than me !) , likes eating out , seafood especially and likes travel. She has told me though her parents(teachers) had some land and used to grow their own veg and keep animals when she was young - she knows how to kill chickens and does it better than I do. I'm a small town guy and have been everything from a bin-man to a restaurant owner, to a professional photographer in my rather varied career, but I've always been self employed and have does a lot of work with computers over the years. I'm currently running an internet based business( so I need connectivity) were I design things on computer, have them made, then do some work on them myself and sell them worldwide online. I've have some horticultural experience - I ran a nursery for 4 years, but no agricultural, though I've lived in the country for most of the last 30 years in both the UK and France, though I did have a 7 year sentence were I was incarcerated , married to a country hating girl - luckily she grew to hate me too so I could move back to somewhere more peaceful, though she did get to keep the (town) house. (Me - bitter? ) So I'm used to living in quite places and my own company and have kept an assortment of back yard animals over the years.

Now I'm not at all sure what we are going to grow in any place we get over there. She just wants to grow the herbs she uses and have enough food to be more or less self-sufficient. I quite fancy keeping fish but I have zero knowledge of tropical agriculture. Neither of us are very young so anything more than a hobby farm is going to mean employing people, though I suppose that would have the advantage of helping me qualify for a visa. Things like rice paddies or rubber trees would probably not suit us though .

I've no idea how much she is thinking of spending on this as I'm not sure how many of the Bangkok houses she's thinking of selling. From what I read on here it seams agricultural land prices are not that much different to to where I am now ( 2,500 euros a hectare for "OK" arable land that's not big or flat enough to get the big machines in)

She has no relatives anywhere else in Thailand so we could go anywhere - Like I said the original plan was for her to come here as I didn't want to live in BKK, but living somewhere rural is much more appealing so I may relent and move over. So where do you think would be good for us?

[maprao]

If it was not such a well written long post I would be shouting "TROLL!"

Most rural land comes with dubious land titles. I have many (my has many I should say). This type of land has to be owned, in my opinion,where her family are.

Sorry no other good advice from me. :jap:

Edited November 11, 2011 by maprao

[melvinmelvin]

if you're aiming at commercial farming I think you should figure out what kind of farm you want before you look at suitable geographical areas

conditions like frequency and amount of rain, irrigation, temperature, quality of the ground etc varies throughout the country and may be an important factor for your farm, depending on what you want to farm

[tebee]

No I'm not a troll, though I am, to a certain extent, thinking aloud here. She only dropped this on me a couple of days ago, and I'm still floundering around, trying to work out what all the things I should know are, then I'll need to start thinking more about the specifics.

As to what we will farm, that is still open to debate. Firstly because, although I could quite happily run a smallholding here, I have no knowledge of farming in tropical climes or what is marketable in Thailand. Secondly what we do is probably less important to us than finding the right place to live. One thing I should emphasize is that I'm not expecting to make the bulk of our money from our farming efforts. Indeed I'd be tempted to keep it at the hobby farming level were it not that there are probably going to be times when one or both of us will need to be away. She goes to China a couple of times a year for TCM events and we have some rental units here in Europe that provide a good chunk of our income. Now although we have agents looking after them they still , need my attention from time to time. Now if we do something a bit bigger and have some staff, those self same staff can look after our animals and the like while we are away. As long as the farming activities cover the staff and other costs I'll be happy, though a profit would be nice!

So I'm also looking for ideas on what to do. When we were going to do it here in Europe the plan was to grow her medicinal plants and some ornamentals as well. I'd still like to do that though my plant choices will be different. As to other things Aquaponics appeals to me on several levels, I like fish and having water round me, the geek in me likes the technology and the eco-warrior in me likes the recycling bit. As a plus you get wonderful vegetables too. Main problem might be finding a Thai you could trust to look after it while you were gone. As to anything else I'm happy to hear sugestions.

[jamescollister]

OP can't say where is best, but you can remove some areas from your list. Where I live in issan, it is Lao speaking and people from the south are seen as black hearts. Your wife will not be made welcome by the locals and there are many rural areas just like here.

Get a map and cross out the places that are not going to except your wife as one of them. Think you will eliminate a large area of rural Thailand. Jim

[ozzydom]

First off, the land measurement here is the rai,which is 1600 sq met.

There are 6.5 rai to a hectare and decent land will run you to 100,000 baht/rai (2500 Euro),so it will run you to 15,500 Euro per hectare for Chanote titled land.

From the tone of your post you are really seeking a sea change (lifestyle if you prefer).

From your background probably a nice estate not to big to be easily manageable ,close to the coast (fresh seafood )with enough land to have a small lake and shade houses for the veggies.

Probably with a small detached bungalow to house a caretaker for the chores and security.

You would need to be within easy commuting distance from a major centre to get good internet access and shopping, as well as ease of travel for your jobs.

I would not bother about money making ventures (even meeting costs)

as that is unlikely to happen.

You would probably find a good caretaker for about 150 Euro /month

but these are one in maybe a hundred.

I have seen such estates ,established for westerners for sale within commuting distance of Pattaya which would probably meet your stated requirements.

[tebee]

Ah ! I'm guessing that feeling may be mutual. I think you've just explained some things she said to me last year during the red shirt demonstrations which I didn't really understand at the time, but just put down to the townie/countryfolk divide. Didn't realize it ran deeper than that.

[Shokdee]

My top 10 would be:

1 - Study permaculture, books or video are OK, to get an idea of how to set this up. You are looking for ways to increase output and reduce input (money, materials, labour, time). The output from one system should be input for the other system, nothing should go to waste.

2 - Look into aquaculture, even a small, swimming pool-sized dam/pond is a start. But not swimming pool shaped, design in an organic way. Fish are the most productive way to increase yield. Make sure you have many species of fish - at least 6. Add some ducks on top the dam and plant ipomea aquatica, lotus, and fruit trees, or anything else that can serve as fish food, around the edges. The system should be self-sustaining.

3 - Create a short list of highly productive / multi-use plants. Such as moringa, neem, winged bean, banana, kratin, coconut, bamboo, lemon grass, sweet potatoes, and so on. Plant a lot of these. All the soil must be covered with something growing, even if it's "weeds". You are always trying to "grow" your soil organically.

4 - Manage your own water supply, build many tanks from concrete rings and catch all the rainwater. Use your waste water to feed the garden. When you're hit with your first floods, study the run off and take corrective action.

5 - Make sure you choose a good location - avoid flood plains, river banks, mountain slopes, fault lines, and coastlines. Choose a big city and then find a place within 45 minute drive. Get the balance between to near a city and too far. Look into the weather cycle for your location. Plan for droughts, plan for floods.

6- Whenever you encounter seeds from fruit or vegetable, sprinkle them around the garden. Nice surprise, better then Christmas, to suddenly find a ripe pumpkin glowing under some bush.

7 - Learn a little about, and then say, "settakit por peung" all the time. Always say you are following the ideas of the King, you love Him and his ideas can save Thailand. You can make any Thai feel quilt, and therefore envious of you, by asking them "How much do you follow the King's ideas?". Visit all your local Royal Projects set-ups, they are more then willing to help with advice and freebies.

8 - Share your bounty with nature. If birds and bugs eat your sweet, juicy harvest, celebrate because you have a living system, not some dead piece of concrete or rows of lifeless mono-agriculture. Aim for diversity, back ups for your back up.

9 - Grow as many flowers as you can, the bees really appreciate the help.

10 - Bee creative, there is no wrong way. Try anything, hope to make mistakes, it is the only way to learn.

Have fun!

[AA1]

Tebee,

When I read the title of your topic, I was going to joke and reply:-

"The best place to farm in Thailand is as far away from your wife's family as possible!!"

I then read what you had written and found that this does not apply in your case!

I think that most of us failed to follow this but hopefully we are still happy.

A case of 'Caveat Emptor'!!!

You seem to have received plenty of good advise already so I will add no more other than wishing you and your wife all the best in whatever venture you settle on.

AA1.

[THAIPHUKET]

Ozzydom and others--

It is very generous of you to share your knowledge!

Questions from a non-farmer with an Isaan wife =

-how to get a handle on land price/ value? The locals seem to go by feeling, not by how much the probable return will be.

100.000 is ok if the return is according, how much would you expect?

E.g. We recently paid for rice paddy in Isaan between 50-60.000. Don't know the yield yet. Are there rice paddies which yield enough crop to justify 100.000/rai?

You said

I have seen such estates ,established for westerners for sale within commuting distance of Pattaya which would probably meet your stated requirements.

Any idea what the asking price/rai could be?

Rough guesstimate = investment needed to yield on average 100.000b/pa

(the concept of yield seems to be foreign, the emotional desire to own land seems to be overriding.

Just riding with my motorbike through many villages, Isaan in particular, there seems the risk of senescence. In other words labor shortage. Realistic?

[tebee]

First off, the land measurement here is the rai,which is 1600 sq met.

There are 6.5 rai to a hectare and decent land will run you to 100,000 baht/rai (2500 Euro),so it will run you to 15,500 Euro per hectare for Chanote titled land.

From the tone of your post you are really seeking a sea change (lifestyle if you prefer).

To a large extent I've already done the life-style change thing, I gave up sub-contracting to big companies and moved to rural France about 10 years ago, Partly for my own sanity and health, but mostly that I realized that enjoying life is much more important than making money. I'd spent a couple of years not working as I was have to look after my mother who had terminal cancer, within 12 days of her dying I'd also lost my best friend to the big C 2 years short of the retirement he'd been so looking forward to, when he was hoping to indulge his hobby. I would be living the good life here myself now but frequent trips to Bangkok have made that impossible.

My wife on the other hand, needs to slow down. She works full time at the hospital, teaches at the university and on her days off does a clinic in Chinatown. My main complaint is that when I come to see her she's always busy and often tired even though she's abandoned half her schedule for me so I dread to think what she's like when I'm not here.

As regards land prices, yes I made a boo-boo, I some how had it in my head that there were 4 Rai in a Hectare, but I also thought the prices was more in the 40,000-50,000 baht per Rai. I'm surprised that Thailand can support a land price 5 times what it is here in rural Brittany. How does anybody ever make a return on it there ? - or have I just answered my own question ? Now I realize why my wife has been so interested in some of the properties I've shown here here with land.

So for what it's going to cost me to buy 1 Ha in Thailand I could buy this 5.75 here? I'm starting to think this may not be such a good idea.

[ozzydom]

Ozzydom and others--

It is very generous of you to share your knowledge!

Questions from a non-farmer with an Isaan wife =

-how to get a handle on land price/ value? The locals seem to go by feeling, not by how much the probable return will be.

100.000 is ok if the return is according, how much would you expect?

E.g. We recently paid for rice paddy in Isaan between 50-60.000. Don't know the yield yet. Are there rice paddies which yield enough crop to justify 100.000/rai?

You said

I have seen such estates ,established for westerners for sale within commuting distance of Pattaya which would probably meet your stated requirements.

Any idea what the asking price/rai could be?

Rough guesstimate = investment needed to yield on average 100.000b/pa

(the concept of yield seems to be foreign, the emotional desire to own land seems to be overriding.

Just riding with my motorbike through many villages, Isaan in particular, there seems the risk of senescence. In other words labor shortage. Realistic?

TP, you are pretty much on the money with your observations,ownership of a bit of dirt is a big thing for most Thais (things like yield and return on investment is immaterial to them).

One of the big things with Thais is that a bit of dirt with Chanote title in that they can use it for collateral for borrowing (usually for gambling debts or for a family member to use for their debts).

I can give a prime example,our fish farm returns 25% per annum on capitol invested,and about 50% operating profit,we only sell fish for about 6 months until stocks deplete.

Now ,Thai wife has a separate 5 rai up the road which a relative uses for rice growing, Thai wife receives 2 bags ,approx 60 kg of sticky rice per annum in payment.

I have suggested that she sell that 5 rai (one crop area ) and buy the 4.5 rai next door to the fish farm (also on river)with view to expansion,her reply is that she wants to keep the 5 rai in case she needs to borrow against it one day.

Even our bank manager has told her it would be a sensible business move,but of course all her relatives urge her to keep it in case they want a bit of cash in the future.

100k per rai land is usually located where water for irrigation is available and CAN give 3 harvests a year .

Rural Thais around here have little concept of land management,they do nothing about restoring depleted soil, after harvest the paddies are just left with their compacted surface until they get enough rain to soften it enough to disc and then replant.

If the growing rice looks a bit yellow they toss heaps of Urea at it and thats about it,To try to explain the benefits of Phosphate and Potassium to them is akin to talking to a brick wall.

Thailand is called the rice bowl of Asia ,but this I feel is because they have such a huge area under rice cultivation ,yield per rai is far greater in Vietnam ,Madagaskar and even Australia.

[retiredusn]

Chanthaburi

[fezzy]

Chang Mai

[thaipod]

My wife wants to do the same our orchard on the outer of Bangkok has been under water for over a month . We were thinking of retiring there and living off the land .

So now we are looking at other areas maybe up north at a higher altitude , her sister has 11 rai in Nong Khai near the friendship bridge, which we are thinking of checking out and maybe set up a small mixed farm to be self sufficient , live off it and make enough to survive .

Anyone out there have any idea of this region, soil type, rainfall ,altitude etc

[slapout]

Fang area, Pick your specific area and good plentiful water is avaliable via borehole, backup for dry season (less than 25 meters) government irrigation system in place, 3 crop a year very doable. There are successful fruit orchards, rice paddy, vegetable farms, fish farming, etc. Fang city is growing and even has farang restaurants in the Tesco lotus complex.

[THAIPHUKET]

Fang,yes with it's beautiful orange farms.

Should be similar agriculture like Chiang Dao, which is closer to Chiang Mai.

Any idea about land prices in either places ?

[slapout]

Chiang Dao are has land for sale advertised by various companies/individuals???? Chanote land in the area is at a premium. Its about 2 times the Fang price from the numbers I have seen bandied around.

The land departments have a number for tax purposes based on land location relative to highways, permitted use, etc. Take that figure and throw in potential commercial potential of property, mature orchard, etc, vs location and the cost can vary by tens of thousand baht/rai.

The Fang are land prices I am sure of, range from 25,000 baht for mountain/hill (uncleared) (no chanote) to 500,000 chanote land bordering major highway. I am sure someone knows exceptions to both my high and low figures, but it does give you a starting point.

[Livinginexile]

First off, the land measurement here is the rai,which is 1600 sq met.

There are 6.5 rai to a hectare and decent land will run you to 100,000 baht/rai (2500 Euro),so it will run you to 15,500 Euro per hectare for Chanote titled land.

From the tone of your post you are really seeking a sea change (lifestyle if you prefer).

From your background probably a nice estate not to big to be easily manageable ,close to the coast (fresh seafood )with enough land to have a small lake and shade houses for the veggies.

Probably with a small detached bungalow to house a caretaker for the chores and security.

You would need to be within easy commuting distance from a major centre to get good internet access and shopping, as well as ease of travel for your jobs.

I would not bother about money making ventures (even meeting costs)

as that is unlikely to happen.

You would probably find a good caretaker for about 150 Euro /month

but these are one in maybe a hundred.

I have seen such estates ,established for westerners for sale within commuting distance of Pattaya which would probably meet your stated requirements.

Kanchanaburi!

Sugar cane country and only 1.5 hours drive to Bkk.

We bought a few rai connecting to the river Kwai Noi but land here is fairly expensive but extremely healthy.

Land here connecting to the river starts at 200K/rai.

If you are going to give farming a go, cover your bases and buy so really GOOD land that perhaps you can build a home stay at a later stage.

Good luck dude

[maidu]

Most rural land comes with dubious land titles. I have many (my has many I should say). This type of land has to be owned, in my opinion,where her family are.

Sorry no other good advice from me. :jap:

First off, it's doubtful you'll make back your investment or make a profit, regardless of what you grow. Since you probably don't have to fully depend on farming, then you can just enjoy it, and hope to make some satang in the process. Your wife might be better off sticking with the job she knows she can get a good steady income from.

Moving from Bkk area is smart for a plethora or reasons, not least it's a flood plain, and future floods will be worse than this one.

Chanod is not a big deal. I have 4 properties, only one with chanod (title) and it doesn't make a bit a difference. With non-title, I can do what I want for as long as I want, so what's the big deal. I'm talking about realities, not legalities (which is hot air and stacks of ridiculous paperwork). Also, it's technically illegal for a farang to farm but again, it doesn't mean anything unless you're doing a big operation (and then, only 'maybe a big deal').

I suggest grow a variety: flowers, trees, fruit bushes (currently non-existent in Thailand), organic veges. I reside in Chiang Rai, and enjoy growing things that aren't ordinarily available in Thailand. When I was feeling poor, I sold starter plants, mostly trees, and it did ok to make ends meet. I sold avocado, pink grapefruit, Brazil Noi (smaller than Brazil nut) and other unusual trees. Shipping within Thailand is cheap. Good luck with whatever you do.

You could also sell potting soil. Currently, Styrofoam has zero value for recyclers. However, you could get a simple machine to pulverize it, and then add it to potting soil. American potting soil sellers have been doing that for decades, yet Thais don't know about it. Otherwise: my recipe for potting soil is composted manure, composted grass (rice grass or any type), clay. You can add sifted sand (the larger parts is what you want), and use the finer sand for stuccoing the sides of your barn. People could also compost the water hyacinth which is probably growing all over Bkk, but Thais don't know about composting. Indeed, Bangladeshi farmers gather large floating mats of the stuff and plant veges (squash in particular) directly in it.