Farang Kiils Thai In Pool Hall.

[uptheos]

You know what I hope the accused was, like you said, 'in a rage, backed with some emotion'. I hear that in Thailand the judge can let you walk free if the case is not a predetermined murder. I don't know if that's true or not.

We don't know all the facts yet (do we) but my guess is that the concealment of a deadly weapon in public and the fact that there (allegedly) had been a previous altercation with the deceased, would almost surely make a good case for the stabbing to be predetermined, i.e 'he went to the snooker hall targeting the deceased'. If he knew the deceased was going to be there and he hated him to the point of killing him - he shouldn't have gone. At the moment, it sounds like his case is weak.

[hml367]

You know what I hope the accused was, like you said, 'in a rage, backed with some emotion'. I hear that in Thailand the judge can let you walk free if the case is not a predetermined murder. I don't know if that's true or not.

We don't know all the facts yet (do we) but my guess is that the concealment of a deadly weapon in public and the fact that there (allegedly) had been a previous altercation with the deceased, would almost surely make a good case for the stabbing to be predetermined, i.e 'he went to the snooker hall targeting the deceased'. If he knew the deceased was going to be there and he hated him to the point of killing him - he shouldn't have gone. At the moment, it sounds like his case is weak.

Is it possible for both of them to have predetermined what they wanted to do? Could both of them have had concealed weapons?

I agree with you, Uptheos, all of the facts are probably not on the forum or news stories. And all of the facts, more than likely, will never be known since the deceased cannot add to the facts tto be known if he would anyway.

Not defending either one of the people involved, yet it is possible for both to be at some fault.

MSPain

[funcat]

To risk your life,jeopardize your family future for a grudge with a stranger...that just blows my mind...

[elektrified]

To risk your life,jeopardize your family future for a grudge with a stranger...that just blows my mind...

We don't really know if they were strangers do we? It has been mentioned on the forum that there was a history between the two of them. There could have been something deeper at issue, i.e. jealousy, love triangle, gambling debts or whatever.

[funcat]

To risk your life,jeopardize your family future for a grudge with a stranger...that just blows my mind...

We don't really know if they were strangers do we? It has been mentioned on the forum that there was a history between the two of them. There could have been something deeper at issue, i.e. jealousy, love triangle, gambling debts or whatever.

I'm a "family" man...I guess you didn't get my point......a "pool" body is still just a "stranger"...

[udonguy]

Trying to read and fully understand these translations is very difficult.Maybe the mods could advise why threads like this one get closed down so abruptly.I'm sure I'm not the only one,apart from the OP, who would like to know the reason/s and what caused this tragic loss of life.

Two reasons:

- potential defamation; if you're the source of an allegation in this country and it turns out to be not true (or even if it is true) then you can be in trouble. By requiring there to be a newspaper article any blame gets shifted there.

- mods don't trust TV forum members, probably for good reason. It's arguable if Thai news media are any more trustworthy, but that's the way it is.

and visa versa

[udonguy]

And yes, initial incarnations of threads that turn out to be true do disappear rather quickly, but then with facts they resurface..... so that we can get the rumor/theory/speculation mill going properly again.

Just to get this out of the way. The previous topic was closed as the OP stated it was "gossip" and further posts with indications of rumor which we don't allow. I stated if it shows up in the media, as WTK previous and correctly stated, than I can re-open the topic with the verifiable information. I've read the article and as such it is no longer 'gossip' as far as I'm concerned.

Got it now?

there are times when i long for open and free debate - one of the things I do actually support in the west

[Hooters]

I really hope he gets good lawyer. I hope it's only self defense.

Dtoy pulled out a knife and almost stabbed him, at which point Gary pulled out his foot-long switchblade toad-sticker and went at it, stabbing Dtoy five times, three in the chest and two times in the chin, probably means under the jaw, I guess.

So there's a little more gruesome detail, for the morbidly curious. And if you want to know exactly where everybody lived, that's in there, too, go figure! Thai journalism requires it.

If someone (allegedly) ALMOST stabs you and then you pull out a foot long switchblade, stabbing that person three times in the chest and two times in the chin, doesn't exactly sound like self defence to me.

Why carry a foot long switchblade into a snooker hall anyway?

self defence

[LarryBird]

I US law was "innocent until proven guilty". Implied guilt? What part of the US is that in?

It might be "leaving the scene of a crime" ?

MSPain

Or evading the police, etc.

I just don't recall the prosecution in the OJ trial ever mentioning the Bronco chase.

I'm no lawyer, and I'm not going to do the research, but fleeing doesn't imply guilt, simply because there are cases where people flee when they are truly innocent. I just don't think it's admissible in court. I'm open to the possibilty I'm wrong however.

In a common sense way, does it imply guilt? In this case , i say not really. He knew he was involved in something that went horribly bad. It seems logical he would think there's a very good chance he's going to get punished for this whether he was in the wrong or not, especially in Thailand.

This is different from a more peaceful scenario where the police come and knock on your door, and you dash out the back. I can see where in this scenario, people would say, '<deleted> are you running from?' In first scenario, it seems understandable.

Just my two cents.

[frankr]

I was just told who this Gary guy was and I actually had a altercation with him in a bar too, HE IS ABSOLUTELY HORRIFIC and a BULLY and was bullying everyone in the Bar and I had to put him in his place (didnt know he was carrying a foot long blade though

He is really really obnoxious guy and a complete BULLY

this is him in a nutshell. he is well known for picking fights and threatening violence. this is not the first time, but hopefully it is the last.

[CMSteve]

They didn't bother pressing that issue because the double murder case would have trumped everything.(It was a no bail charge). BTW, he also had a loaded gun, cash, passport and disguise. Wasn't charged for those either. I don't think A.C. was charged for anything either.... BTW, OJ was found innocent after spending about 1/2 year in jail.

In most if not all states in the US, it is illegal to intentionally evade a law enforcement/peace officer attempting to legally/lawfully detain him/her. Nothing about the actual arrest nor admission of guilt.

All that being said, I can agree that a person in a foreign country may be a little for hesitant to turn themselves in, but this really does not bode well for him.

I US law was "innocent until proven guilty". Implied guilt? What part of the US is that in?

It might be "leaving the scene of a crime" ?

MSPain

Or evading the police, etc.

I just don't recall the prosecution in the OJ trial ever mentioning the Bronco chase.

I'm no lawyer, and I'm not going to do the research, but fleeing doesn't imply guilt, simply because there are cases where people flee when they are truly innocent. I just don't think it's admissible in court. I'm open to the possibilty I'm wrong however.

In a common sense way, does it imply guilt? In this case , i say not really. He knew he was involved in something that went horribly bad. It seems logical he would think there's a very good chance he's going to get punished for this whether he was in the wrong or not, especially in Thailand.

This is different from a more peaceful scenario where the police come and knock on your door, and you dash out the back. I can see where in this scenario, people would say, '<deleted> are you running from?' In first scenario, it seems understandable.

Just my two cents.

[lannarebirth]

Just what was in the 'corned beef' then ?

I'm not sure but the good news is it's still available. I was in for lunch today. I didn't talk about the case but his wife was there taking care of things as she usually does. It's her place so I expect she will carry on running things as she did before.

[uptheos]

I was just told who this Gary guy was and I actually had a altercation with him in a bar too, HE IS ABSOLUTELY HORRIFIC and a BULLY and was bullying everyone in the Bar and I had to put him in his place (didnt know he was carrying a foot long blade though

He is really really obnoxious guy and a complete BULLY

this is him in a nutshell. he is well known for picking fights and threatening violence. this is not the first time, but hopefully it is the last.

I seem to recall several popsters calling him a real nice guy...accomodating and would go out of his way to make sure everything was OK.

[frankr]

it seems as if every one of those members that kept praising him to high heaven stopped posting on thai visa the very same day that Gary was arrested. coincidence?

[uptheos]

I think you have never ever been in a real street fight, especially not with inebriated people.

Nope, born and bred during 50's & 60's in the East End of London, two streets away from the Krays and other unsavouries.

If you made the wrong eye contact with someone, it was settled by going outside and throwing teddy bears at each other.

Actually, it was that very environment that taught people not to carry weapon's. If you carried one, you were either a thug or clever dick and all bets were off. Weapon's were seldom used unless it was a particular grudge.

Marquess of Queensbury rules old chap

[CMSteve]

Could be, but I think it really has to do with which Frank they met. Was it new business owner Frank that needed to get a loyal customer base together? Or possibly another Frank, known to be a bully, etc.

it seems as if every one of those members that kept praising him to high heaven stopped posting on thai visa the very same day that Gary was arrested. coincidence?

[gham]

I was just told who this Gary guy was and I actually had a altercation with him in a bar too, HE IS ABSOLUTELY HORRIFIC and a BULLY and was bullying everyone in the Bar and I had to put him in his place (didnt know he was carrying a foot long blade though

He is really really obnoxious guy and a complete BULLY and when I made the connection it all slotted into place because I can now picture exactly how things went down and I would put my life on it that this Gary guy was the instigator..

Unfortunately sounds like the wrong guy won, and I hope this guy gets whats coming to him.

DK

i find this very sad.

HOFFIFIC BULLY? you are not in the position to call someone that.

Obnoxious?

If I said.... Pot kettel black.... That is what you have just done. just check previous posts

You can preach as much as you like. Reality is much different

you havn't a clue who instigated what.

So why in Thailand would you bet your life on it?

[gham]

I was just told who this Gary guy was and I actually had a altercation with him in a bar too, HE IS ABSOLUTELY HORRIFIC and a BULLY and was bullying everyone in the Bar and I had to put him in his place (didnt know he was carrying a foot long blade though

He is really really obnoxious guy and a complete BULLY and when I made the connection it all slotted into place because I can now picture exactly how things went down and I would put my life on it that this Gary guy was the instigator..

Unfortunately sounds like the wrong guy won, and I hope this guy gets whats coming to him.

DK

i find this very sad.

HOFFIFIC BULLY? you are not in the position to call someone that.

Obnoxious?

If I said.... Pot kettel black.... That is what you have just done. just check previous posts

You can preach as much as you like. Reality is much different

you havn't a clue who instigated what.

So why in Thailand would you bet your life on it?

sorry no edit option.

*HORRIFIC*

wow but this post has...LOL

Too slow I guess

[chiangmaicharlies]

Wow! - as the instigator of the original closed thread, having read all these comments (some true, some not - we know exactly who was involved as regulars there; he doesn't always carry a knife!) I now have a better idea of why threads are closed. Thanks moderators.

[Saan]

Interesting reading - trial by Thaivisa. It is strange that this thread was first closed because the report was only 'rumour'. Since then we have had rumour, inuendo, guess work, US bush lawyers applying their version of US law to the alleged crime, and a pretty fair selection of libel. After all this I hope the ALLEGED perpetrator can get a fair trial.

[realthaideal]

Those Thai soap operas must have some carry-over effect on all of us old Farang folk here..... we sure crank out our own speculations and drama that's not to be missed !

[WinnieTheKhwai]

Interesting reading - trial by Thaivisa. It is strange that this thread was first closed because the report was only 'rumour'. Since then we have had rumour, inuendo, guess work, US bush lawyers applying their version of US law to the alleged crime, and a pretty fair selection of libel.

Sshh!!! That's the beauty of this forum; nobody truly is in touch with the rules.

You may have just done enough now though.

I personally think it's been okay so far, possibly with some exceptions. The fair trial argument also doesn't apply; anonymous internet content is just not admissable; they'd have to get a person to actually testify. And with a clear cut case like this with plenty witnesses to the actual event, it's unlikely that the prosecution will bother.

But if you think a post is inappropriate then just report that single post.

[chiangmaicharlies]

Why carry a foot long switchblade into a snooker hall anyway?

For refurbishing the que stick?

Ahem! -shurely shome mistayke there:

Cue stick - noun - Sports implement consisting of a tapering rod used to strike a cue ball in pool or billiards

[uptheos]

Why carry a foot long switchblade into a snooker hall anyway?

For refurbishing the que stick?

No reason at all to carry any sort of weapon.

[paulfr]

FYI

Gary Cutler, the fellow attacked is NOT the same guy as

the Gary who is known to be somewhat obnoxious.

I know Gary and he is a nice responsible family man.

He just ran in to the wrong guy in the public domain.

[uptheos]

He just ran in to the wrong guy in the public domain.

..........whilst he was carrying his 12' switchblade............interesting.

[lannarebirth]

He just ran in to the wrong guy in the public domain.

..........whilst he was carrying his 12' switchblade............interesting.

I think that is not true as well.

[muchogra]

FYI

Gary Cutler, the fellow attacked is NOT the same guy as

the Gary who is known to be somewhat obnoxious.

I know Gary and he is a nice responsible family man.

He just ran in to the wrong guy in the public domain.

It's nice on your part to clear this up.

I think most would agree that Thais like to gang up on a farang. Sometimes, a totally non-involved Thai stranger would come in to give a kick whilst the farang on the floor. One needs to bear this in mind when about getting into a confrontation. Be prepared mentally for a suitable measure.

[ThePunPun]

FYI

Gary Cutler, the fellow attacked is NOT the same guy as

the Gary who is known to be somewhat obnoxious.

I know Gary and he is a nice responsible family man.

He just ran in to the wrong guy in the public domain.

There seems to be some earlier missing connection to the above post ....

Gary?...Gary?...

I thought I understood that Gary was the attacker with the 12 " knife who also was the deli owner.

I thought I understood that the person attacked and killed was a Thai guy.........and who now is Gary Cutler who was attacked....

With all due respect to this poster, I would think that if you find yourself down on your luck, a budding career awaits you writing for The Nation

[binjalin]

1322961029[/url]' post='4889347']

1322908208[/url]' post='4888594']

FYI

Gary Cutler, the fellow attacked is NOT the same guy as

the Gary who is known to be somewhat obnoxious.

I know Gary and he is a nice responsible family man.

He just ran in to the wrong guy in the public domain.

There seems to be some earlier missing connection to the above post ....

Gary?...Gary?...

I thought I understood that Gary was the attacker with the 12 " knife who also was the deli owner.

I thought I understood that the person attacked and killed was a Thai guy.........and who now is Gary Cutler who was attacked....

With all due respect to this poster, I would think that if you find yourself down on your luck, a budding career awaits you writing for The Nation

Here,here i'm completely confused now - Gary is nice, Gary is evil man with a 12 inch, Gary was attacked, Gary was the attacker- anyone have the facts?