Thai Cabinet Endorses Thaksin Amnesty Plan: Reports

[OZEMADE]

Well cant be right all the time. Were all the charges dropped including the Terrorism charge as they only seem to want him for Corruption as I have stated earlier, over the land bit. Gets a bit hard to follow all the time, when all the family and relations were in court over the Shincorp business and all their cash confiscated etc. However over time they too wer let off and all the cash returned. So looks like Thaksin will get off as well over time. Lets sit back and see.

[hammered]

The Facebook page opposing the amnesty has exploded with "I am attending"s and presently stands at 26,506 - up from about 16,000 less than three hours ago.

It now stands at 44,829 attending.

Great.

Actually very good.

At 5,300 per hour , in another 6 months there will be enough attendees to win an election................

With a slight majority.

Reckon they can do it ???

The vast majority of people that vote PTP dont have computers. For that matter thay also dont have landline telephones tat many polling agencies use too.... Still the ballot box and paper is a great leveler.

[sbk]

Posts deleted- do NOT bring the monarchy into this discussion

Rude baiting and inflammatory posts have been removed. Presumably we are all adults here and capable of acting like civilized and civil human beings. Give it a try, because if you don't drop the baiting and nasty inflammatory posts I am happy to give a holiday to those who continue so that they can take that time to remember how to mind their manners.

[OzMick]

Well cant be right all the time. Were all the charges dropped including the Terrorism charge as they only seem to want him for Corruption as I have stated earlier, over the land bit. Gets a bit hard to follow all the time, when all the family and relations were in court over the Shincorp business and all their cash confiscated etc. However over time they too wer let off and all the cash returned. So looks like Thaksin will get off as well over time. Lets sit back and see.

The money returned was due to the civil case running past the statute of limitations - the criminal cases against his family now are under a friendly/biased administration that refuses to either prosecute or appeal decisions.

[Arkady]

I wonder how many other criminals over 60 years of age, convicted of corruption, sentenced to less than 3 years and yet to serve any of their sentences will also benefit from this very generous offer.

[Buchholz]

Well cant be right all the time. Were all the charges dropped including the Terrorism charge as they only seem to want him for Corruption as I have stated earlier, over the land bit. Gets a bit hard to follow all the time, when all the family and relations were in court over the Shincorp business and all their cash confiscated etc. However over time they too wer let off and all the cash returned. So looks like Thaksin will get off as well over time. Lets sit back and see.

The terrorism charge and the other seven arrests warrants are all still valid and pending his return to Thailand. Once that occurs, the prosecution of his crimes can proceed.

.

[hammered]

I wonder how many other criminals over 60 years of age, convicted of corruption, sentenced to less than 3 years and yet to serve any of their sentences will also benefit from this very generous offer.

That is an interesting question as the corruption thing is the only change from the Abhisit version. What were Vattana and Kamnan Poh convicted of? And Im sure a few others in the poltical arena. Around Chonburi there has been a noticeablke we love Kamnan Poh car sticker event going on over the last few months.

Of course those who like Thaksin may also say why did last time the Abhisit government decide to exclude only those on corruption charges when there are aging people serving under three years for a variety of nasty violent crimes too.

The only issue with this is that it may or may not involve Thaksin. Nobody cares abour releasing someone who may well resort to a little revenge or violence

[animatic]

I just came back from the Stadium 30 minutes ago.

First I watched the Army orchestra cheering up the people there. They're pretty good. People were dancing. Many beautiful female soldiers too. Very relaxed and real.

After that I visited the camp inside the Stadium. A young Thai man introduced me to visit a man (81y/o), because he had no relatives here.

He got rescued by the Army(Pakret/Nontaburi) and couldn't even bring his 3rd teeth with him due to a snake attack, kind of a black viper. They just could pull him in time into the boat.

Fortunately he got a flight out to California tomorrow to stay with his son, a doctor. he's also an American citizenship. He was cheering, sang many songs and prayed . Quite refreshing to see things working out for some. but how many will be not so fortunate?

Still 1400 evacuees there.Lots of animals in the shelter underneath and the makeshift hospital seem to get more busy again.

Outside dozens of rabbits were hopping happily in the grass, children chasing and playing with them. Beautiful scenes.

It was like in the lyrics of this song

Thanks for the hopeful report.

[hammered]

Well cant be right all the time. Were all the charges dropped including the Terrorism charge as they only seem to want him for Corruption as I have stated earlier, over the land bit. Gets a bit hard to follow all the time, when all the family and relations were in court over the Shincorp business and all their cash confiscated etc. However over time they too wer let off and all the cash returned. So looks like Thaksin will get off as well over time. Lets sit back and see.

The terrorism charge and the other seven arrests warrants are all still valid and pending his return to Thailand. Once that occurs, the prosecution of his crimes can proceed.

.

This is what many forget. The pardon/amnesty isnt the end of everything. Its all going to end in a deal anyway and having some outstanding charges left may well be part of it although those ousted in coups etc usually have time served abroad as enough before being cleansed. I doubt the country really is going to go into the finer details of Suchinda (didnt even have to leave) and Manoonkrit

[JohnAllan]

Why beat about the bush? 62 years old, living in exile for 4 years and sentenced in absentia to 2 years in prison. Might take in a few more convicts, but not too many.

And maybe I'm missing something here . . . but wasn't Thaksin's daughter married just days ago?

[phiphidon]

The Facebook page opposing the amnesty has exploded with "I am attending"s and presently stands at 26,506 - up from about 16,000 less than three hours ago.

It now stands at 44,829 attending.

Great.

Actually very good.

At 5,300 per hour , in another 6 months there will be enough attendees to win an election................

With a slight majority.

Reckon they can do it ???

The vast majority of people that vote PTP dont have computers. For that matter thay also dont have landline telephones tat many polling agencies use too.... Still the ballot box and paper is a great leveler.

Apparently, the "popular" group known as REM (who are currently disbanding or something) have 1.5 Million "Likes" on their Facebook Page. This alone tells me that Facebook is not a valid barometer of either Taste or Truth...............................

[Buchholz]

Of course those who like Thaksin may also say why did last time the Abhisit government decide to exclude only those on corruption charges when there are aging people serving under three years for a variety of nasty violent crimes too.

*Bumped*

with an additional subsequent quote added:

The not having served time was in last years Abhisit government plan and was justified by the then justice minister as not being necessary. The only change is likley to be the bit that was put in to exclude corruption convictions that red carded Thaksin, The not srving time was never the issue even under the last regime

Do you have anything to show that the last pardon application by the Dems included the clause that no prison time at all need be served?

In the other paper, Democrat Chief Whip Jurin Laksanavisit said today it's never been done before.

Abhisit noted proceedings of the law are controversial and its principles are different from earlier royal pardon decrees under which eligible convicts must have served their sentences.

[OzMick]

Thaksin's death would solve many problems for this country.

[hammered]

For those interested in how the only change to last years is the corruption element and not the time served one

This is lifted from the Bangkok Pundit quoting Keawsan (well known Thaksin critic) writing in Siam Rath about how the Abhisit government removed the requirement for time served. Im sure they wished they hadnt now but.....

2.2. Especially regulations that may be to the advantage of Thaksin is the regulation that those aged over 60 and who have less than 3 years of their sentence for the 2007 pardon there was condition that must have served one-third of sentence, but in 2010 the government removed his condition so for 2011 the Yingluck government has the freedom to choose either the 2007 pardon regulations or the 2010 pardon regulations as they prefer

[Buchholz]

The Facebook page opposing the amnesty has exploded with "I am attending"s and presently stands at 26,506 - up from about 16,000 less than three hours ago.

It now stands at 44,829 attending.

Great.

Actually very good.

At 5,300 per hour , in another 6 months there will be enough attendees to win an election................

With a slight majority.

Reckon they can do it ???

The vast majority of people that vote PTP dont have computers.

Shame then that the PTP scaled back tremendously it's initially-professed giveaway of millions of tablet computers to members of their voting families.

.

Edited November 16, 2011 by Buchholz

[marstons]

Great news democracy returns to Thailand, Welcome back, shame was not here to sort out flood problem. voted in by the majority, kicekd out by armed coup by the minority.

bring it on all those who think the majority who voted him did not deserve the demcocacy we have in the west.

[annabel]

Sparebox2 .... can u elaborate please as to HOW HE IS GOOD... GOD...?? Maybe some of us need to be enlightned ...Really ? Please elaborate as it may be that we Farangs are all been beeing misguided by the media and hearsay...??? or see things in a different way ???

If Thaksin is really that bad (as you people say he is), why is God still kept him alive?

Steve Job wasn't really that bad, why is God takes him along ?

Because God is an imaginary friend for grown ups and doesn't exist.

One of these days the penny will drop. Man created gods, many of them, not the other way around.

[Buchholz]

For those interested in how the only change to last years is the corruption element and not the time served one

This is lifted from the Bangkok Pundit quoting Keawsan (well known Thaksin critic) writing in Siam Rath about how the Abhisit government removed the requirement for time served. Im sure they wished they hadnt now but.....

2.2. Especially regulations that may be to the advantage of Thaksin is the regulation that those aged over 60 and who have less than 3 years of their sentence for the 2007 pardon there was condition that must have served one-third of sentence, but in 2010 the government removed his condition so for 2011 the Yingluck government has the freedom to choose either the 2007 pardon regulations or the 2010 pardon regulations as they prefer

It's unclear as to whether or not "remove the requirement for time served" and "removing the condition that must have served one-third of sentence" is actually the same thing as meaning that no time at all need be served prior to receiving a pardon.

But even more so, I wonder if that actually applied to anyone last year.

Prior to Thaksin, has any prisoner at any time ever received a Collective Royal Pardon that did not serve so much as even a single day in detention?

.

Edited November 16, 2011 by Buchholz

[Thaddeus]

The Facebook page opposing the amnesty has exploded with "I am attending"s and presently stands at 26,506 - up from about 16,000 less than three hours ago.

It now stands at 44,829 attending.

Great.

Actually very good.

At 5,300 per hour , in another 6 months there will be enough attendees to win an election................

With a slight majority.

Reckon they can do it ???

The vast majority of people that vote PTP dont have computers. For that matter thay also dont have landline telephones tat many polling agencies use too.... Still the ballot box and paper is a great leveler.

But, but, but. Ol' square head promised that they would have them... and they would all be rich to boot (sorry for the reference to boots in these troublesome times),

The ballot box is not a great leveller, well not here anyway, the ballot box is an indicator of who only thinks 'me me me me me' ad infinitum.

[hammered]

For those interested in how the only change to last years is the corruption element and not the time served one

This is lifted from the Bangkok Pundit quoting Keawsan (well known Thaksin critic) writing in Siam Rath about how the Abhisit government removed the requirement for time served. Im sure they wished they hadnt now but.....

2.2. Especially regulations that may be to the advantage of Thaksin is the regulation that those aged over 60 and who have less than 3 years of their sentence for the 2007 pardon there was condition that must have served one-third of sentence, but in 2010 the government removed his condition so for 2011 the Yingluck government has the freedom to choose either the 2007 pardon regulations or the 2010 pardon regulations as they prefer

It's unclear as to whether or not "remove the requirement for time served" and "removing the condition that must have served one-third of sentence" is actually the same thing as meaning that no time at all need be served prior to receiving a pardon.

But even more so, I wonder if that actually applied to anyone last year.

Prior to Thaksin, has any prisoner at any time ever received a Royal Pardon that did not serve so much as even a single day in detention?

.

It is probably better not to go there, but it has happened. A previous Dem PM tried to check the constitutionality of one after it happened it has been said.

Keawsan sees it as no time served by the way and the actual relevent law it seems doesnt say anything about having served a day.

This whole deabte is going to get quite sensitive and I doubt we can really discuss it in its entirety although others elsewhere may well do so

[annabel]

Nah! Nah! Nah! You are all wrong !!!!!!!! she needed the extra time to plan her trip to Bali ,,,, what is wrong with all of you ??? that way she also cannot reply answer the media tomorrow ... Good Planning I must say!!

It's the way they did it that sums this mafia up.

Yingluck sneaks off to Singburi and states that "Oh it's dark now, my helicopter can't fly in the dark because it has no radar so I can't return for my cabinet meeting"

Army says "of course that model has radar and so does the other helicopter that is on standby"

Chalerm the magnificent holds the meeting kicking out all but a select few cronies. Meeting is "secret" - well all know why. Meeting agrees to this amnestty.

When cabinet is asked about the meeting the outcome is silence, no comment or Plodprasop "I can't say, it's a secret"

Yingluck, when asked, says "Don't ask me what they did - I wasn't there"

Absolute disgrace.

3 army helicopters clash in a single week, all flying in day-light. Including the most expensive US made black hawk with radar.

And you you say it is OK to fly at night?

142 km away, she could have walked to the meeting, dont you recognize bs when you smell it?

Or at least paddled there!!!

[letitbe]

Good old PTP use the cover of the floods to bring back Baig T. The red supports will be here soon telling us how great this will be for Thailand. Ying luck should man up and tell dear brother he is on his own and she being the PM will do what is best for Thailand.

people like you still dont get it it seems Yingluck is Taksins clone only thing on agenda for reds and Taksins party is Taksins parden and return Why dont people like you just ope your eyes your completely naieve

[Buchholz]

For those interested in how the only change to last years is the corruption element and not the time served one

This is lifted from the Bangkok Pundit quoting Keawsan (well known Thaksin critic) writing in Siam Rath about how the Abhisit government removed the requirement for time served. Im sure they wished they hadnt now but.....

2.2. Especially regulations that may be to the advantage of Thaksin is the regulation that those aged over 60 and who have less than 3 years of their sentence for the 2007 pardon there was condition that must have served one-third of sentence, but in 2010 the government removed his condition so for 2011 the Yingluck government has the freedom to choose either the 2007 pardon regulations or the 2010 pardon regulations as they prefer

It's unclear as to whether or not "remove the requirement for time served" and "removing the condition that must have served one-third of sentence" is actually the same thing as meaning that no time at all need be served prior to receiving a pardon.

But even more so, I wonder if that actually applied to anyone last year.

Prior to Thaksin, has any prisoner at any time ever received a Royal Pardon that did not serve so much as even a single day in detention?

.

It is probably better not to go there, but it has happened. A previous Dem PM tried to check the constitutionality of one after it happened it has been said.

Keawsan sees it as no time served by the way and the actual relevent law it seems doesnt say anything about having served a day.

This whole deabte is going to get quite sensitive and I doubt we can really discuss it in its entirety although others elsewhere may well do so

I can appreciate the sensitivity, but I was specifically wondering about a Collective Royal Pardon (I edited my original post after you quoted) that this latest one is.

I'm aware of some alluding to it occurring with the separately defined Individual Royal Pardon, but never one that was part of Collective Royal Pardon.

btw, Individual and Collective Royal Pardons are defined by the Department of Corrections here:

http://www.correct.go.th/eng/royal_pardon.html

[Arkady]

I wonder how many other criminals over 60 years of age, convicted of corruption, sentenced to less than 3 years and yet to serve any of their sentences will also benefit from this very generous offer.

That is an interesting question as the corruption thing is the only change from the Abhisit version. What were Vattana and Kamnan Poh convicted of? And Im sure a few others in the poltical arena. Around Chonburi there has been a noticeablke we love Kamnan Poh car sticker event going on over the last few months.

Of course those who like Thaksin may also say why did last time the Abhisit government decide to exclude only those on corruption charges when there are aging people serving under three years for a variety of nasty violent crimes too.

The only issue with this is that it may or may not involve Thaksin. Nobody cares abour releasing someone who may well resort to a little revenge or violence

There is no precedent for pardoning a convict who has fled the country, not served any of his sentence and not shown even fake remorse for his crime. I think it is going to very different from last year's version and all previous years.

Vattana was convicted of corruption in the case of his wasteful waste management project but Kamnan Poh was convicted of corruption in another waste disposal project and murder in two separate cases. He was sentenced to 25 years in the murder case but was still appealing that one on bail. He fled the sentence on the corruption case, as he had exhausted avenues of appeal there. Neither of them are eligible for a pardon as their sentences for corruption were more than three years.

Thaksin will still have to face other cases, including the three digit lottery case, saplings case and the Exim Bank loan for Burma case. However, the newly compliant judiciary, police and DSI will not press forward with these cases which will eventually be demolished through a plan to make all investigations undertaken by the Assets Examination Committee set up by the coup makers illegal. In addition to Thaksin getting a pardon in the land case, they will have to annul the conviction completely in order to restore his political rights. The most potentially dangerous case was the concealed assets in SC Assets case because it was not investigated by the AEC. However, crushing that case within the DSI was one of the first priorities given to the Samak government and it is unlikely to be revived by the now docile DSI. The final piece de resistance will be the reversal of the Supreme Administrative Court's ruling on the confiscation of Thaksin's assets and the restoration of same plus accrued interest. That should be completed by - let's see - around the middle of next year. Then it will be time for a long list of prosecutions of any one who did anything nasty to Thaksin over the last five years.

[Thaddeus]

Nah! Nah! Nah! You are all wrong !!!!!!!! she needed the extra time to plan her trip to Bali ,,,, what is wrong with all of you ??? that way she also cannot reply answer the media tomorrow ... Good Planning I must say!!

Can't even pack a suitcase then, I wonder if it has really big pockets, can she qualify for a Bali passport?

[hammered]

It is probably better not to go there, but it has happened. A previous Dem PM tried to check the constitutionality of one after it happened it has been said.

Keawsan sees it as no time served by the way and the actual relevent law it seems doesnt say anything about having served a day.

This whole deabte is going to get quite sensitive and I doubt we can really discuss it in its entirety although others elsewhere may well do so

I can appreciate the sensitivity, but I was specifically wondering about a Collective Royal Pardon (I edited my original post after you quoted) that this latest one is.

I'm aware of some alluding to it occurring with the separately defined Individual Royal Pardon, but never one that was part of Collective Royal Pardon.

btw, Individual and Collective Royal Pardons are defined by the Department of Corrections here:

http://www.correct.go.th/eng/royal_pardon.html

From what I understand the collective route is used as it is more acceptable to some Thaksin opponents including Kaewsan where as the attempted individual one tried before was seen as favouring only one man (even if it had been done before on more than one occasion). I can also see why some Thaksin opponents who want to see it over, national reconcilliation and Thaksin bowing out of poltics favor this route over legislation or constitutional collapse of bodies. However, it is sensitive and the timing is either silly or opportune ( I have no idea on political standing and opportunity right now). I think to answer your question we would need an exhaustive case study. This is likely the first time a high profile person has ever potentially been included in a collective pardon

[hammered]

I wonder how many other criminals over 60 years of age, convicted of corruption, sentenced to less than 3 years and yet to serve any of their sentences will also benefit from this very generous offer.

That is an interesting question as the corruption thing is the only change from the Abhisit version. What were Vattana and Kamnan Poh convicted of? And Im sure a few others in the poltical arena. Around Chonburi there has been a noticeablke we love Kamnan Poh car sticker event going on over the last few months.

Of course those who like Thaksin may also say why did last time the Abhisit government decide to exclude only those on corruption charges when there are aging people serving under three years for a variety of nasty violent crimes too.

The only issue with this is that it may or may not involve Thaksin. Nobody cares abour releasing someone who may well resort to a little revenge or violence

There is no precedent for pardoning a convict who has fled the country, not served any of his sentence and not shown even fake remorse for his crime. I think it is going to very different from last year's version and all previous years.

Vattana was convicted of corruption in the case of his wasteful waste management project but Kamnan Poh was convicted of corruption in another waste disposal project and murder in two separate cases. He was sentenced to 25 years in the murder case but was still appealing that one on bail. He fled the sentence on the corruption case, as he had exhausted avenues of appeal there. Neither of them are eligible for a pardon as their sentences for corruption were more than three years.

Thaksin will still have to face other cases, including the three digit lottery case, saplings case and the Exim Bank loan for Burma case. However, the newly compliant judiciary, police and DSI will not press forward with these cases which will eventually be demolished through a plan to make all investigations undertaken by the Assets Examination Committee set up by the coup makers illegal. In addition to Thaksin getting a pardon in the land case, they will have to annul the conviction completely in order to restore his political rights. The most potentially dangerous case was the concealed assets in SC Assets case because it was not investigated by the AEC. However, crushing that case within the DSI was one of the first priorities given to the Samak government and it is unlikely to be revived by the now docile DSI. The final piece de resistance will be the reversal of the Supreme Administrative Court's ruling on the confiscation of Thaksin's assets and the restoration of same plus accrued interest. That should be completed by - let's see - around the middle of next year. Then it will be time for a long list of prosecutions of any one who did anything nasty to Thaksin over the last five years.

I think you need to rethink your first sentence

[sparebox2]

Well cant be right all the time. Were all the charges dropped including the Terrorism charge as they only seem to want him for Corruption as I have stated earlier, over the land bit. Gets a bit hard to follow all the time, when all the family and relations were in court over the Shincorp business and all their cash confiscated etc. However over time they too wer let off and all the cash returned. So looks like Thaksin will get off as well over time. Lets sit back and see.

The terrorism charge and the other seven arrests warrants are all still valid and pending his return to Thailand. Once that occurs, the prosecution of his crimes can proceed.

.

Like Nelson Mandala, both men are charged with terrorism and other things.

[sparebox2]

Thaksin's death would solve many problems for this country.

Yes, but bad people don't die easy.

[Buchholz]

The Facebook page opposing the amnesty has exploded with "I am attending"s and presently stands at 26,506 - up from about 16,000 less than three hours ago.

It now stands at 44,829 attending.

72,554 Attending

.