Changes Proposed To Uk Spouse Visa Rules

[StreetCowboy]

I have two friends from my primary school who have taken the opportunity to live and work in EU countries - one in France, the other in Poland. And a third in Italy now I come to think on it. I'd not like to say to them that for the sake of throwing out a few gyppos they would not be allowed to live and work where they chose. Let's face it, the UK was not bereft of scrounging degenerates before the current wave of Eastern European immigrants, and like previous waves from Italy and Poland, I am sure that they do us proud. Ask Simon Danielli or Nick de Luca what nationality they are!

SC

[elliss]

Would this also apply for spouses that are wanting to work?

jb1

of course not ,

britain only has 2 million people wanting a job .

or maybe just go in on a ed.visa, why work ?.

:jap:

[StreetCowboy]

QUOTE

Would this also apply for spouses that are wanting to work?

jb1

UNQUOTE

of course not ,

britain only has 2 million people wanting a job .

or maybe just go in on a ed.visa, why work ?.

:jap:

One can't be much of a man if one's spouse has to work.

As a man, one's role is to chase antelope and fight in foreign wars, whilst the womenfolk tend the brood and gather nuts and berries.

SC

Eff off, ye french get, I said berries, not berets

[4.real]

I guess this is what you get when you have voted for relatively anti-immigration platform of a Tory government...a crackdown on, um, immigration...of all types.

Are you following the UK papers?

The populace are pretty annoyed about foreign welfare claimants - but little if anything has been changed by the latest government.

Given that I was a legal immigrant to the UK for a few years- and unable to claim one penny of welfare - I'm pretty sure that most of the UK papers with stories of 'welfare claimants' are just that, stories.

Stories?

Eastern europeans [are you one?] cannot claim any government benefits unless they are in employment.

When last in London,3 years back, I noticed many of the Roma street beggars were now sitting around offering 'The Big Issue' for sale.

I was puzzled until I read in The Daily Mail a year ago that by offering the Big Issue for sale they would be classed as 'self employed'

This qualified them for government benefits to make up their income.

[trevorg]

I have two friends from my primary school who have taken the opportunity to live and work in EU countries - one in France, the other in Poland. And a third in Italy now I come to think on it. I'd not like to say to them that for the sake of throwing out a few gyppos they would not be allowed to live and work where they chose. Let's face it, the UK was not bereft of scrounging degenerates before the current wave of Eastern European immigrants, and like previous waves from Italy and Poland, I am sure that they do us proud. Ask Simon Danielli or Nick de Luca what nationality they are!

SC

It's not about nationality (although that pair of fairies from SRU have been scrounging off the huge amount of money that England puts into Scotland every year)! <deleted> - one supports QoS and the others gone Irish!

Though obviously I wouldn't say it to their face - that would be rude! ;-)

Edited November 18, 2011 by trevorg

[GuestHouse]

I was puzzled until I read in The Daily Mail....

They might remove any confusion and puzzlement if they printed it on softer paper, doing so might clarify exactly what that rag is fit for.

[trevorg]

I was puzzled until I read in The Daily Mail....

They might remove any confusion and puzzlement if they printed it on softer paper, doing so might clarify exactly what that rag is fit for.

+1

[samran]

I was puzzled until I read in The Daily Mail....

They might remove any confusion and puzzlement if they printed it on softer paper, doing so might clarify exactly what that rag is fit for.

Clean bowled middle stump

[meatboy]

this mess the uk goverment find their selves in for me goes back to the early 60's,i used to do accounts for independant retailers 30yrs,when all the indian and chinese resturants and takeaways opened up they all done a roaring trade but profits were not plowed back into the acconomy it was sent home,then we had the markets opening up everywhere there was spare ground,90% of traders were not registered for tax or vat and them that paid it was very little, what the tax man told me was their accounts where manufactered but there was little they could do as they did not have the resorces,then again the profit went overseas.most of the wholesalers dealt in cash no bills or 50%on 50%off.we cant put the blame on all the europeans because back in the 60's wifes,brothers,uncles,aunties,cousins anyone living in the uk any relative was allowed to follow,families with one child soon had 6children, the flood gates had started to open,where was the work?none of them went down the mines one of the biggest employers,so now the pinch was starting to take affect,1990's the black hole in the acconony was getting bigger although we had great resorces from north sea gas but the money was all wasted,tax officers were told get ot and hit all the small retailers why ? because the big boys were not paying what they should,but this time late 1990's the small independant stores were on their knees and closing down.then when labour sold us out to brussels the writing was already on the cards.these changes for me will do nothing to boost the coffers its a little to late.now i need a stiff one

[samran]

this mess the uk goverment find their selves in for me goes back to the early 60's,i used to do accounts for independant retailers 30yrs,when all the indian and chinese resturants and takeaways opened up they all done a roaring trade but profits were not plowed back into the acconomy it was sent home,then we had the markets opening up everywhere there was spare ground,90% of traders were not registered for tax or vat and them that paid it was very little, what the tax man told me was their accounts where manufactered but there was little they could do as they did not have the resorces,then again the profit went overseas.most of the wholesalers dealt in cash no bills or 50%on 50%off.we cant put the blame on all the europeans because back in the 60's wifes,brothers,uncles,aunties,cousins anyone living in the uk any relative was allowed to follow,families with one child soon had 6children, the flood gates had started to open,where was the work?none of them went down the mines one of the biggest employers,so now the pinch was starting to take affect,1990's the black hole in the acconony was getting bigger although we had great resorces from north sea gas but the money was all wasted,tax officers were told get ot and hit all the small retailers why ? because the big boys were not paying what they should,but this time late 1990's the small independant stores were on their knees and closing down.then when labour sold us out to brussels the writing was already on the cards.these changes for me will do nothing to boost the coffers its a little to late.now i need a stiff one

So let me get this straight, the uk economy is in a pickle and it all started because indian and Chinese takeaway shops sent their profits back home? Okay, even if this is true ( and we know that is cutting this dodgy line of thought a heck of a lot of slack) what necessarily is the problem with this? Or are we in the business telling people how they should spend the proceeds of their labour?

Or should we be telling British expatriates in Thailand that they aren't allowed to transfer their pensions there as it is better to 'Plow' the profits of their lifes work back into the uk economy rather than being spent in a country full of brown people who dont even play cricket?

[chiang mai]

Here's the direction we're headed with all of these things:

Dateline London, 17 November 2017

In late breaking news the government announced last night that their controversial "ex-pat" bill had passed in the House with a majority of twenty two votes. The bill now requires that all British citizens who have lived abroad for more than the past two years be required to reapply for their right to live in the UK, regardless of where they were born, their ancestory or assets. Such ex-pats as they are commonly known have been judged to be an unnecessary drain on precious UK resources by not contributing to the financial development of the country as a whole – pension payments that are not spent in the UK, avoidance of UK tax, illegal usage of the NHS and sponsorship of benefit sapping foreign wives were all cited as key reasons.

[samran]

Not so. I worked as an NHS nurse at a surgical theatre in a west London hospital, and I'd say that a large proportion of the elderly patients receiving surgery were parents of immigrants, but were getting free surgery that they had not contibuted a penny of tax for. It was forbidden for the hospital staff to even enquire if they were entitled to the surgery.

Absolutely barking.

You worked in the NHS and were not aware that access to health care in the UK is provided on the basis of need - There is no 'Entitlement Criteria' beyond needing health care.

Did the large number of foreign doctors, nurses, health professionals and support staff on which the NHS relies also escape your notice?

And I am sure he undertook in depth interviews with them all as to their time in the uk just before the anethsitist put them under too?

Reminds me of my Thai uncle aunts and cousins who have been in Australia for 30+ years working the entire time but don't speak English very well or in some cases at all. I'm grateful to hear that 'thaibeachlovers' would be so judgmental of them too as to their eligibility of access to social services, let alone the deep thought he has obviously provided to the concept of what happens to society when you don't offer medical care in the basis that the uk, Australia and many other western nations do.

Perhaps if we were to treat things fairly I'll run for Thai parliament on the platform of charging British expats user pay charges for every piece of piece of public infrastructure they use for which "they had not contributed one penny of tax for". Is that what fair play means?

[trevorg]

All of the above- I don't take sides!

[meatboy]

can samran please tell us what we get for nothing in los,and the profits the takeaways and market traders that were sent home was hard earned cash that should have been circlelating in the economy in the uk.but it was not like the saying[what goes arround comes arround] seemed to vanish on route.and on the subject of nhs staff,what is happening to all the trained doctors,nurses who trained in the uk they cant get a job,and while on the nhs what about catering staff,auxillary and cleaners where have these jobs gone,agency part time so they dont have to pay the proper rates.oh sht if i have another drink i'l be snoreeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeing.

[samran]

can samran please tell us what we get for nothing in los,and the profits the takeaways and market traders that were sent home was hard earned cash that should have been circlelating in the economy in the uk.but it was not like the saying[what goes arround comes arround] seemed to vanish on route.and on the subject of nhs staff,what is happening to all the trained doctors,nurses who trained in the uk they cant get a job,and while on the nhs what about catering staff,auxillary and cleaners where have these jobs gone,agency part time so they dont have to pay the proper rates.oh sht if i have another drink i'l be snoreeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeing.

before you start with that drink, could you grab me an encryption machine to decipher what you said?

[trevorg]

I must admit that a Caps Key, a Space Bar and a Return would help! But I sort of get his point! Will everyone stop bitching at each other! Everyone has their opinions, which they are entitled to hold, however wrong they may be in other peoples eyes.

[Mosha]

Here's the direction we're headed with all of these things:

Dateline London, 17 November 2017

In late breaking news the government announced last night that their controversial "ex-pat" bill had passed in the House with a majority of twenty two votes. The bill now requires that all British citizens who have lived abroad for more than the past two years be required to reapply for their right to live in the UK, regardless of where they were born, their ancestory or assets. Such ex-pats as they are commonly known have been judged to be an unnecessary drain on precious UK resources by not contributing to the financial development of the country as a whole – pension payments that are not spent in the UK, avoidance of UK tax, illegal usage of the NHS and sponsorship of benefit sapping foreign wives were all cited as key reasons.

So that's why the lower tax limit will be those earning over 10K pa. They want to keep me out of Dewsbury.

[thaibeachlovers]

Not so. I worked as an NHS nurse at a surgical theatre in a west London hospital, and I'd say that a large proportion of the elderly patients receiving surgery were parents of immigrants, but were getting free surgery that they had not contibuted a penny of tax for. It was forbidden for the hospital staff to even enquire if they were entitled to the surgery.

Absolutely barking.

You worked in the NHS and were not aware that access to health care in the UK is provided on the basis of need - There is no 'Entitlement Criteria' beyond needing health care.

Did the large number of foreign doctors, nurses, health professionals and support staff on which the NHS relies also escape your notice?

And I am sure he undertook in depth interviews with them all as to their time in the uk just before the anethsitist put them under too?

Reminds me of my Thai uncle aunts and cousins who have been in Australia for 30+ years working the entire time but don't speak English very well or in some cases at all. I'm grateful to hear that 'thaibeachlovers' would be so judgmental of them too as to their eligibility of access to social services, let alone the deep thought he has obviously provided to the concept of what happens to society when you don't offer medical care in the basis that the uk, Australia and many other western nations do.

Perhaps if we were to treat things fairly I'll run for Thai parliament on the platform of charging British expats user pay charges for every piece of piece of public infrastructure they use for which "they had not contributed one penny of tax for". Is that what fair play means?

dam_n right I was judgemental of them.

If I had a child that had emigrated to Asia, do you think that I would be allowed to enter their new country of abode to live there for the rest of my life, all the while getting free medical treatment and welfare benefits? Of course I wouldn't, so why do Britain's rulers think they should extend that courtesy to all the Asians that immigrate on family visas?

So, what does happen to society when you don't offer medical care to those that never contributed- probably ends up like Asian countries, and fair enough too.

Are you one of those bleeding heart liberals that think tax payers should go out to work to support the dead wood?

[ludditeman]

If I had a child that had emigrated to Asia, do you think that I would be allowed to enter their new country of abode to live there for the rest of my life, all the while getting free medical treatment and welfare benefits? Of course I wouldn't, so why do Britain's rulers think they should extend that courtesy to all the Asians that immigrate on family visas?

So, what does happen to society when you don't offer medical care to those that never contributed- probably ends up like Asian countries, and fair enough too.

Are you one of those bleeding heart liberals that think tax payers should go out to work to support the dead wood?

Everyone from Europe, America, Canada, Australia & New Zealand is let in to the UK with little or no constraints.

So why not let everyone else in as well?

[thaibeachlovers]

Not so. I worked as an NHS nurse at a surgical theatre in a west London hospital, and I'd say that a large proportion of the elderly patients receiving surgery were parents of immigrants, but were getting free surgery that they had not contibuted a penny of tax for. It was forbidden for the hospital staff to even enquire if they were entitled to the surgery.

Absolutely barking.

Did you write to your MP about it? Or go visit their surgery? Your hospital management are not gods, they must adhere to the law. It takes people like you to whistleblow. Never underestimate the power of an MP's letter.

Quotes removed to allow posting

Hmmmm. No I didn't. I was only there because the NHS pays better wages than what I'd have got back "ome, and I had no intention of living there after I retired.

However, the two English guys on the support staff ( everyone else was "foreign" ) always bitched a lot about what had happened to their country.

Had I any emotional attachment to Britain I probably would have done something about it, but frankly, with the present bunch of time wasters in Parliament, it's hard to see what can be done to rectify the situation.

[thaibeachlovers]

If I had a child that had emigrated to Asia, do you think that I would be allowed to enter their new country of abode to live there for the rest of my life, all the while getting free medical treatment and welfare benefits? Of course I wouldn't, so why do Britain's rulers think they should extend that courtesy to all the Asians that immigrate on family visas?

So, what does happen to society when you don't offer medical care to those that never contributed- probably ends up like Asian countries, and fair enough too.

Are you one of those bleeding heart liberals that think tax payers should go out to work to support the dead wood?

Everyone from Europe, America, Canada, Australia & New Zealand is let in to the UK with little or no constraints.

So why not let everyone else in as well?

Wrong- during the time I was working there, all the Australian and other "white" agency nurses vanished because the government brought in restrictions on them. Didn't seem to apply to the "other" ones though. Social engineering at work!

I never saw an American or Canadian nurse there, which is not surprising, as few nurses would willingly take a sharp drop in their income.

Of course EU citizens were allowed in unrestricted, but few of their nurses wanted to come and work in the NHS as it was so backward compared to their own countries.

Edited November 19, 2011 by thaibeachlovers

[ludditeman]

If I were in charge of the world.

Right to live anywhere in the world for everyone.

No welfare for anyone, but food and shelter (and childcare) provided for anyone who wants it (workhouse style) and accepts the work they are assigned.

Solve all immigration and welfare problems in one go.

Edited November 19, 2011 by ludditeman

[VisasPlus]

As you may know, I tried to highlight these proposed changes a while back, when people had the chance to make their feelings known to the government during the consultation process. The government says that the responses to the consultation paper shows that the majority of people are in favour of the changes. Having seen the proposed income levels for sponsors of settlement applications, I am shocked. It will mean that, at the lower level, almost half of current sponsors would not qualify to sponsor their partner, and at the higher level almost two-thirds would not qualify as sponsors. It begs the questions as to who can actually sponsor a spouse or partner, and the answer would seem to be that only the wealthier sponsors can bring a partner to the UK. This must be morally wrong, and it will no doubt be tested in the European courts. The government has already lost the battle on age for spouses in the courts, and the word is that they will shortly be forced to withdraw the English language requirement. I think, if the current income level proposal comes into law, then the government will again lose in the ECJ, as the proposal discriminates against lower income groups. The right to family life should not depend on how much you earn, or, to be more exact, how much income you have.

One thing has hasn't been mentioned in this announcement is third - party support. It was mentioned in the initial proposals, and I guess third - party support will be going too. There would be no point in raising the income level requirement if the shortfall in income could be overcome by third - party support. My bet is that it will be gone soon too.

[thaibeachlovers]

If I were in charge of the world.

Right to live anywhere in the world for everyone.

No welfare for anyone, but food and shelter (and childcare) provided for anyone who wants it (workhouse style) and accepts the work they are assigned.

Solve all immigration and welfare problems in one go.

I agree with that.

[samran]

Not so. I worked as an NHS nurse at a surgical theatre in a west London hospital, and I'd say that a large proportion of the elderly patients receiving surgery were parents of immigrants, but were getting free surgery that they had not contibuted a penny of tax for. It was forbidden for the hospital staff to even enquire if they were entitled to the surgery.

Absolutely barking.

You worked in the NHS and were not aware that access to health care in the UK is provided on the basis of need - There is no 'Entitlement Criteria' beyond needing health care.

Did the large number of foreign doctors, nurses, health professionals and support staff on which the NHS relies also escape your notice?

And I am sure he undertook in depth interviews with them all as to their time in the uk just before the anethsitist put them under too?

Reminds me of my Thai uncle aunts and cousins who have been in Australia for 30+ years working the entire time but don't speak English very well or in some cases at all. I'm grateful to hear that 'thaibeachlovers' would be so judgmental of them too as to their eligibility of access to social services, let alone the deep thought he has obviously provided to the concept of what happens to society when you don't offer medical care in the basis that the uk, Australia and many other western nations do.

Perhaps if we were to treat things fairly I'll run for Thai parliament on the platform of charging British expats user pay charges for every piece of piece of public infrastructure they use for which "they had not contributed one penny of tax for". Is that what fair play means?

dam_n right I was judgemental of them.

If I had a child that had emigrated to Asia, do you think that I would be allowed to enter their new country of abode to live there for the rest of my life, all the while getting free medical treatment and welfare benefits? Of course I wouldn't, so why do Britain's rulers think they should extend that courtesy to all the Asians that immigrate on family visas?

So, what does happen to society when you don't offer medical care to those that never contributed- probably ends up like Asian countries, and fair enough too.

Are you one of those bleeding heart liberals that think tax payers should go out to work to support the dead wood?

Bleeding heart liberal - love it!

Suggest you read a few more of my posts on economic subjects before you sully me with such defamatory terms.

[elliss]

Dateline London, 17 November 2017

In late breaking news the government announced last night that their controversial "ex-pat" bill had passed in the House with a majority of twenty two votes. The bill now requires that all British citizens who have lived abroad for more than the past two years be required to reapply for their right to live in the UK, regardless of where they were born, their ancestory or assets. Such ex-pats as they are commonly known have been judged to be an unnecessary drain on precious UK resources by not contributing to the financial development of the country as a whole – pension payments that are not spent in the UK, avoidance of UK tax, illegal usage of the NHS and sponsorship of benefit sapping foreign wives were all cited as key reasons.

quite right ,

if one chooses to leave the uk ,

and live in another country , ie thailand,

they technically , relenquish their british citizenship.

and as such, they should not expect the british goverment to support them.

:jap:

[chiang mai]

They do not relinquish their British citizenship, technically or in any other way, but they might in the future if the current trend is allowed to continue - I wonder where this, beyond Orwellian concept will end, UK citizens are allowed to be out of the country for no more than four weeks each year and even then, only to visit approved countries? Sign seen at Heathrow departures and port of Dover, UK citizens must be tagged beyond this point!

As for the support issue, I think most sensible and reasonable people would agree.

[7by7]

There is a lot of ignorant prejudice in this topic presented as fact; so allow me to correct that.

1. The parents of immigrants to the UK are not automatically allowed in as well. They have to obtain an Adult Dependant visa and to get that they have to show that they are wholly and totally dependent upon their UK resident family member with absolutely no one in their home country able to support them.
2. Because they are not allowed to work, asylum seekers are entitled to the very basic amount of state aid until their case is decided. If decided in their favour they are classed as UK residents and all that entails, if not in their favour they are removed. It is true, however, that the shambles introduced by the last government and continued by the present allows many to disappear. However, they are then in the UK illegally and so cannot claim anything.
3. To live in the UK an EEA citizen needs to be exercising an economic treaty right; self employed, employed or living on independent means. They are allowed a limited time in the UK if job seeking, but if they fail to find employment must leave.
4. UK citizens have the same rights to live and work in other EEA states as citizens of those states have to live and work in the UK.
5. EEA citizens living in the UK (or UK citizens living in another EEA state) have no right to any state benefit except those they have paid for via NI contributions.
6. All residents in the UK are entitled to the full range of NHS treatment; regardless of their nationality. Visitors are only entitled to initial emergency care in an A&E department; any further treatment should be paid for. This has been somewhat abused in the past with hospitals not enforcing it, but the government are determined to change this; see 'Health tourists' will pay the price for their NHS debts
7. All immigrants, family or otherwise, EEA nationals or other, are only entitled to a limited range of public funds, including full NHS care, until they have ILR or PR. Once they have ILR or PR they are treated the same as British citizens for this purpose.

None of which has anything to do with the proposals on family migration; and they are just proposals at the moment. For a reasoned discussion of those, see this topic. But, please, no ill informed opinions in that topic; keep those here.

[samran]

There is a lot of ignorant prejudice in this topic presented as fact; so allow me to correct that.

1. The parents of immigrants to the UK are not automatically allowed in as well. They have to obtain an Adult Dependant visa and to get that they have to show that they are wholly and totally dependent upon their UK resident family member with absolutely no one in their home country able to support them.
2. Because they are not allowed to work, asylum seekers are entitled to the very basic amount of state aid until their case is decided. If decided in their favour they are classed as UK residents and all that entails, if not in their favour they are removed. It is true, however, that the shambles introduced by the last government and continued by the present allows many to disappear. However, they are then in the UK illegally and so cannot claim anything.
3. To live in the UK an EEA citizen needs to be exercising an economic treaty right; self employed, employed or living on independent means. They are allowed a limited time in the UK if job seeking, but if they fail to find employment must leave.
4. UK citizens have the same rights to live and work in other EEA states as citizens of those states have to live and work in the UK.
5. EEA citizens living in the UK (or UK citizens living in another EEA state) have no right to any state benefit except those they have paid for via NI contributions.
6. All residents in the UK are entitled to the full range of NHS treatment; regardless of their nationality. Visitors are only entitled to initial emergency care in an A&E department; any further treatment should be paid for. This has been somewhat abused in the past with hospitals not enforcing it, but the government are determined to change this; see 'Health tourists' will pay the price for their NHS debts
7. All immigrants, family or otherwise, EEA nationals or other, are only entitled to a limited range of public funds, including full NHS care, until they have ILR or PR. Once they have ILR or PR they are treated the same as British citizens for this purpose.

None of which has anything to do with the proposals on family migration; and they are just proposals at the moment. For a reasoned discussion of those, see this topic. But, please, no ill informed opinions in that topic; keep those here.

Great intervention. Great information.

[ludditeman]

quite right ,

if one chooses to leave the uk ,

and live in another country , ie thailand,

they technically , relenquish their british citizenship.

and as such, they should not expect the british goverment to support them.

:jap:

What a plonker.