Gf Leaves With Aussie Son In Thailand

[jayinoz]

Seems to be a legal mess and x2 lawyers do not seem to have the answers.

My X GF left with my son a few months ago... back to her village and drops him off with grandma. Back to catch a farang in Chiang Mai.

Now they not letting me visit or be Gunned down in this remote village. As my X makes up anything in the world to spite me.

I cannot get legitimized as father as he not Thai.... he Aussie. X Gf cannot be bothered making him Thai and lets him remain illegal in the countryside.

He only 2.5 years old. X has criminal record in Aussie and was refused VISA so legals say easy custody win. At least majority custody 5\2 and that all you need.

Also if I win Primary custody then I know the thai family will not be bothered to visit, as I will make it as hard as they made for me the last 3-4 months.

My X played this game a couple of times in hope I beg for her return for the sake of my son. We are way past that now... I simply wish to see my boy and no one able to help.

He is in limbo in Thailand.... as an Aussie. Told Aussie Child Services and Police- naturally nothing they can do in Thailand.

I feel very stuck... others suggest more serious action and have team to do, yet was hoping for peaceful solution. It considered kidnapping unless we were married. Plus i remaining in Thai and plan for my son to be looked after by me, new partner, etc. Been through this before and I simply paid 100,000 baht to have my daughter live in Aussie. Custody is to my parents in Aussie, she been happy there for a decade now.

X will not cooperate in anyway and no contact for months. Only threat of being shot if I turn up to say hello to my son. Police here will do nothing as one word from Grandma that i so bad and son with them and they not prepared to help Farang.

Any suggestions.... in moving forward. I missing my son greatly and have no idea how he is for a long time now.

Thanks...

[beano2274]

So the Ex is Thai and you are Aussie, then the child has both nationalities, so is legal in Thailand.

Do not to anything rash, think about it, use money to help get visitation rights.

Others here will know more than me, and help with more information. Wish you well.

[venturalaw]

"I cannot get legitimized as father as he not Thai.... he Aussie. X Gf cannot be bothered making him Thai and lets him remain illegal in the countryside."

When asking a question it's really important to be clear. What you stated above is subject to multiple interpretations. Is there a birth certificate? Are you listed as the father? Is your ex-girlfriend Thai?

If you are listed on the birth certificate, and you are an Australian citizen, then take the birth certificate and whatever else is needed according to Australian law to the Australian Embassy and secure an Australian passport for your son.

If you are not listed on the birth certificate, and since you were not married to the mother, you have no standing and are virtually powerless.

[beano2274]

"I cannot get legitimized as father as he not Thai.... he Aussie. X Gf cannot be bothered making him Thai and lets him remain illegal in the countryside."

When asking a question it's really important to be clear. What you stated above is subject to multiple interpretations. Is there a birth certificate? Are you listed as the father? Is your ex-girlfriend Thai?

If you are listed on the birth certificate, and you are an Australian citizen, then take the birth certificate and whatever else is needed according to Australian law to the Australian Embassy and secure an Australian passport for your son.

If you are not listed on the birth certificate, and since you were not married to the mother, you have no standing and are virtually powerless.

To get an Aussie Passport am sure he will need the mothers approval, even if he is on the BC she can get the child a Thai passport without his approval.

Consent

Before a passport may be issued to a child the written consent of all persons with parental responsibility for the child is needed. The Australian Passports Act 2005, Section 11, also permits a passport to be issued to a child if an Australian court order allows the child to travel internationally, as well as in certain other circumstances where full consent has not been obtained. For further information regarding consent, see Children and Parental Consent.

Edited November 18, 2011 by beano2274

[ludditeman]

If your son is Australian, how did he get into Thailand?

Seems to me he must be Thai (with a Thai mother)

[terryq]

"My X GF left with my son a few months ago..." my emphasis

I never understand why the mother or father refer to the child in this way, it is their son. (Sorry just a pet hate of mine)

If he was born of a Thai mother then surely, in the eyes of Thailand he is Thai, whether he is registered here or not something which the op doesn't know for sure.

If his name is on the bc in Oz that would be the basis for going forward, if not then DNA testing would be needed. At the moment any legal action will need to take place in Thailand claiming that he would be better off with you, full custody to you, I think, would be difficult for the Thai court to award.

Dont see what the police here can do, he is with his mother and you are not married. Just re-read your original post seems you make a habit of this.

[soundman]

Any child with at least one Thai parent automatically qualifies as Thai citizen.

[jayinoz]

"I cannot get legitimized as father as he not Thai.... he Aussie. X Gf cannot be bothered making him Thai and lets him remain illegal in the countryside."

When asking a question it's really important to be clear. What you stated above is subject to multiple interpretations. Is there a birth certificate? Are you listed as the father? Is your ex-girlfriend Thai?

If you are listed on the birth certificate, and you are an Australian citizen, then take the birth certificate and whatever else is needed according to Australian law to the Australian Embassy and secure an Australian passport for your son.

If you are not listed on the birth certificate, and since you were not married to the mother, you have no standing and are virtually powerless.

Yes listed on the Aussie birth cert.... mother is Thai yet our son not registered. Also had DNA testing in Aussie and have these results to show I am the father. I am Aussie.

For what purpose do I get another Aussie passport for him. I have no access to him so how to get passport photos, unless clip and chip from photos i have as best I can.

I gather the passport would be for retreat to Aussie. Was not the intention as work and live here with another spouse now.

Also my son has my surname, as I insisted he got my name in Aussie. So contemplated a retreat for a couple of months via passport back to Aussie. Either new or old one... yet old one he came in on last year is securely locked away with Thai family.

It was hell trying to get the paperwork done to add my son to Thai House book and make him thai. So the paperwork still sitting in my house, I highly doubt my X is capable of doing herself.

What to do? Thanks

[jayinoz]

In saying the above I am sure we could proceed and he be listed as Thai born in Aussie.

They could pass a judgment either way in court.

Those that been to custody court- what are they most interested in?

Best interests of child, money, etc.

If can negotiate a sum to have custodial powers, is their any Negotiation and Mediation services. As I am sure a person of influence could make a deal.

Lawyers naturally very hesitant here to offer mediation, when in Aussie is solves 97% of cases. i guess they figure they lose out on some $$$ if mediated.

The only option from their mouth is court. Yet I negoitated for my daughter long ago. This time the girl is more vindictive and spiteful- it will take few more dollars this time. Yet they will have their price. The harder I make it on them the less the will take.

I heard Thais can get free lawyers as they pity their bs story from their bar girl minded family. As they seem very confident I can do nothing, when i am told I can do a lot in court.

It makes sense they favor the Mum, yet when it proven she a criminal in one country and barl girl in theirs my lawyers are highly confident of a custodial power win. Visitation to the thai family and I select the future life for my son. Without custodial power my son is a write off for my family. As my X is amazingly illogical and difficult to deal with.

Thanks

[ludditeman]

Sorry, but the only advice I can give when relating to a difficult mother is

Forget the kid, pay nothing, move on

Impregnate another woman

Start again

In the long run, this is the easiest way to do things.

It's what i do, but then according to many posters on this forum I am a very bad man.

Alternatively, you can waste the rest of your life chasing a dream.

Edited November 18, 2011 by ludditeman

[gregb]

In saying the above I am sure we could proceed and he be listed as Thai born in Aussie.

They could pass a judgment either way in court.

Those that been to custody court- what are they most interested in?

Best interests of child, money, etc.

If can negotiate a sum to have custodial powers, is their any Negotiation and Mediation services. As I am sure a person of influence could make a deal.

Lawyers naturally very hesitant here to offer mediation, when in Aussie is solves 97% of cases. i guess they figure they lose out on some $$$ if mediated.

The only option from their mouth is court. Yet I negoitated for my daughter long ago. This time the girl is more vindictive and spiteful- it will take few more dollars this time. Yet they will have their price. The harder I make it on them the less the will take.

I heard Thais can get free lawyers as they pity their bs story from their bar girl minded family. As they seem very confident I can do nothing, when i am told I can do a lot in court.

It makes sense they favor the Mum, yet when it proven she a criminal in one country and barl girl in theirs my lawyers are highly confident of a custodial power win. Visitation to the thai family and I select the future life for my son. Without custodial power my son is a write off for my family. As my X is amazingly illogical and difficult to deal with.

Thanks

Please understand. There is *NO WAY* for you to become the legal father of the child in Thailand without going to court. Not unless you married your ex, which it doesn't sound like either of you would be willing to do. So stop fighting the court option. Find a lawyer you like in Thailand and start the process.

The Thai family courts are very reasonable compared to some courts in the West. They really do put the interests of the child first. If you can prove your ex is a danger to the child then you even stand a chance of getting sole custody. I'm not sure just a criminal record in Australia is going to be enough to meet that level of proof, but depending on the circumstances it might be.

Listen to your lawyer in this case. Court is absolutely the path for you. Short of marriage or waiting until the child is 7, there is no way to avoid it and be the legal father in Thailand. Once the case is submitted and the mother realizes that this will go before a judge, you may find her more reasonable about many things.

[jayinoz]

In saying the above I am sure we could proceed and he be listed as Thai born in Aussie.

They could pass a judgment either way in court.

Those that been to custody court- what are they most interested in?

Best interests of child, money, etc.

If can negotiate a sum to have custodial powers, is their any Negotiation and Mediation services. As I am sure a person of influence could make a deal.

Lawyers naturally very hesitant here to offer mediation, when in Aussie is solves 97% of cases. i guess they figure they lose out on some $$ if mediated.

The only option from their mouth is court. Yet I negoitated for my daughter long ago. This time the girl is more vindictive and spiteful- it will take few more dollars this time. Yet they will have their price. The harder I make it on them the less the will take.

I heard Thais can get free lawyers as they pity their bs story from their bar girl minded family. As they seem very confident I can do nothing, when i am told I can do a lot in court.

It makes sense they favor the Mum, yet when it proven she a criminal in one country and barl girl in theirs my lawyers are highly confident of a custodial power win. Visitation to the thai family and I select the future life for my son. Without custodial power my son is a write off for my family. As my X is amazingly illogical and difficult to deal with.

Thanks

Please understand. There is *NO WAY* for you to become the legal father of the child in Thailand without going to court. Not unless you married your ex, which it doesn't sound like either of you would be willing to do. So stop fighting the court option. Find a lawyer you like in Thailand and start the process.

The Thai family courts are very reasonable compared to some courts in the West. They really do put the interests of the child first. If you can prove your ex is a danger to the child then you even stand a chance of getting sole custody. I'm not sure just a criminal record in Australia is going to be enough to meet that level of proof, but depending on the circumstances it might be.

Listen to your lawyer in this case. Court is absolutely the path for you. Short of marriage or waiting until the child is 7, there is no way to avoid it and be the legal father in Thailand. Once the case is submitted and the mother realizes that this will go before a judge, you may find her more reasonable about many things.

Yes agreed.... do not think a pay off to the family will work this time. Or the pay off would be far higher than court itself.

Yes let the court decide, many have told me to gain custodial power here is more reasonable than our own courts in many cases.

Cheers

[Mario2008]

The child is Thai because of the mother. The question is if your child was bootn in Australia and if you legitimized the child according to Australian law. If you did, a Thai judge might recognize you as the legal father without having to go to court here. If the child was born in Thailand, or you did not legitmize the child in Australia, you are not the legal father and currently have no rights.

Your first step would be to petition the Thai court to become the legal father. You will get shared custody with the mother, unless the mother is deemed a danger to the child.

If you get custody, the norm is that the child either lives with the mother or with the father. If the mother is not taking care of the child, she will have to give the child to you and not let it stay with the grandmother. As the legal father you have the right to demand the child from anyone, except from the mother itself. The fact that she will have to take care of the child herself might be a burden on her. She cannot let the child stay with the grandmother while she is in CM herself.

The question is where you want to live, in Thailand or Australia. You might not be allowed to take the child out of the country.

Contact a competent lawyer. Isaanlawyers has a very good reputation regarding Thai family law.

[garrfeild]

Sorry, but the only advice I can give when relating to a difficult mother is

Forget the kid, pay nothing, move on

Impregnate another woman

Start again

In the long run, this is the easiest way to do things.

It's what i do, but then according to many posters on this forum I am a very bad man.

Alternatively, you can waste the rest of your life chasing a dream.

Agreed, your a bad man. what kind of advice is that, don't worry about your child, go screw another lady have another child, and make the same mistakes. Well sounds like he beat you to it. he had the same problems with another lady. It sounds like he is going for his third now.

[Langsuan Man]

Agreed, your a bad man. what kind of advice is that, don't worry about your child, go screw another lady have another child, and make the same mistakes. Well sounds like he beat you to it. he had the same problems with another lady. It sounds like he is going for his third now.

Bad man yes, just like a typical Thai male, they just want to spread their sperm around to feel virile

[ludditeman]

Agreed, your a bad man. what kind of advice is that, don't worry about your child, go screw another lady have another child, and make the same mistakes. Well sounds like he beat you to it. he had the same problems with another lady. It sounds like he is going for his third now.

Bad man yes, just like a typical Thai male, they just want to spread their sperm around to feel virile

Way off topic now (sorry)

So it's OK for a woman to use a child to blackmail the father.

But it's not OK for the father to refuse to negotiate with a blackmailer.

This seems to be a variation on the western idea than women are always good, and men are always bad.

My advice still stands, walk away, breed again, never look back, never negotiate with terrorists or blackmailers.

If every male took this stance, the blackmail game would soon be reduced.

[Mario2008]

Let's play the ball, not the man.

There is no blackmail for money in this case. It looks more she simply doesn't want to have any contact with the OP. Often that is the main reason for a parent to not have the other parent have access to a child, not wanting contact or wanting to hurt the former spouse. Love and hate...

[venturalaw]

"I cannot get legitimized as father as he not Thai.... he Aussie. X Gf cannot be bothered making him Thai and lets him remain illegal in the countryside."

When asking a question it's really important to be clear. What you stated above is subject to multiple interpretations. Is there a birth certificate? Are you listed as the father? Is your ex-girlfriend Thai?

If you are listed on the birth certificate, and you are an Australian citizen, then take the birth certificate and whatever else is needed according to Australian law to the Australian Embassy and secure an Australian passport for your son.

If you are not listed on the birth certificate, and since you were not married to the mother, you have no standing and are virtually powerless.

For what purpose do I get another Aussie passport for him.

That's what I'm talking about being clear. I do not see where you ever said that your child has an Australian passport. If he has no Thai passport, or ID, how is he living here in Thailand? Does he have a visa?

If it were my son, and I was no longer with the mom who desired keeping our son from me, I would take him to Australia, and she would be allowed to visit him any time she wished IN AUSTRALIA. If she has a criminal record there and cannot go, that's too bad. Since you are in another relationship with a Thai (no. 3?), and wish to stay in Thailand, I would do whatever I could to gain custody under Thai law. Not being married to your child's mother (I like to call your type a 'serial monogamous'), you will have some hoops to jump through. Good luck.

[ludditeman]

That's what I'm talking about being clear. I do not see where you ever said that your child has an Australian passport. If he has no Thai passport, or ID, how is he living here in Thailand? Does he have a visa?

Very few children below the age of 16 have any Thai ID card, although now they can get one at age 8+

Almost none have passports of any kind, foreign children are not required to have a Visa (well they should, but there is no penalty if they don't)

Registration on a Tabian book is the only form of ID for a Thai child, which is done by showing a birth certificate from any country, with a parents Thai ID card at the Amphur office.

Edited November 19, 2011 by ludditeman

[venturalaw]

That's what I'm talking about being clear. I do not see where you ever said that your child has an Australian passport. If he has no Thai passport, or ID, how is he living here in Thailand? Does he have a visa?

Very few children below the age of 16 have any Thai ID card, although now they can get one at age 8+

Almost none have passports of any kind, foreign children are not required to have a Visa (well they should, but there is no penalty if they don't)

Registration on a Tabian book is the only form of ID for a Thai child, which is done by showing a birth certificate from any country, with a parents Thai ID card at the Amphur office.

Thanks for that ludditeman. I had no idea since my son has always had passports, since prior to his first birthday - U.S. and Thai.

[mike123ca]

When the child entered into Thailand did he use a Thai passport or Australian passport. If he came in using the Aussi passport wouldn't the government have to automatically recognize the child as a Australian because he entered the country using an aussi passport.

Even though the child does have Thai citizenship.

Edited November 20, 2011 by mike123ca

[Mario2008]

THe passport the child entered on is not relevant, only relevant for immigration but not for a custody case. The child is Thai and staying in Thailand and that is all the judge will care about.

[Goinghomesoon]

The child is Thai because of the mother. The question is if your child was bootn in Australia and if you legitimized the child according to Australian law. If you did, a Thai judge might recognize you as the legal father without having to go to court here.

There is no process in Australia to legitimize your position in the same way the Thais do. Under Australian law you are considered the legal father simply by being listed on the Australian birth certificate.

Jay I believe there is an Aussie lawyer in Chiang Mai who specialises in family law in both Australia and Thailand. Just search Google for "Australian lawyer Chiang Mai".

Edited November 21, 2011 by Goinghomesoon

[punch]

I feel sorry for you OP, But I am trying to understand somthing.. If an ozzie child that just happens to have a Thai mother goes to Thailand on an Ozzie passport, let's say for a 2 week holiday, then the mother of the child could just say what the hell, I want to stay and keep the child here and there stuff all the father or the child can do about it??? I relies you can get a lawyer and all that but there are no garentee's.. is this right or have I missed somthing.

[jayinoz]

The child is Thai because of the mother. The question is if your child was bootn in Australia and if you legitimized the child according to Australian law. If you did, a Thai judge might recognize you as the legal father without having to go to court here.

There is no process in Australia to legitimize your position in the same way the Thais do. Under Australian law you are considered the legal father simply by being listed on the Australian birth certificate.

Jay I believe there is an Aussie lawyer in Chiang Mai who specialises in family law in both Australia and Thailand. Just search Google for "Australian lawyer Chiang Mai".

Thanks.... I think he is the guy at Lanna lawyers in Chiang Mai.

To the last poster- Yes indeed. If child happens to have Thai mother and comes to Thailand for holiday it is my understanding she may keep the child. So this should be on everyones 'Watch list'.

Many ways to skin a cat... in my case you may only get one shot.

I read a UK man ran off with son.... Thai mother sued for sole custody in thai court.... thai mother reported father for kidnapping.... child shipped back to Thai.... Father battling in Supreme courts and likes unlikely. Whilst she was clever- it would not take too long for this strategy to be mentioned to a thai family whom may do anything to have the No 1 best hope for the future back.... then again money talks over hear.

Been able to get a weekly visit yet if the X is there I get a earful of smack. I need to remember to RECORD the smack talk. Anyway a couple of options being looked into... all have pros and cons as far as I am concerned. There may not be an 100% right move in this case and patience maybe a virtue. Anyway 'watch out' if ur new misses has a 2yo half thai\farang back in her village and she trash talking the Aussie....Lol... seriously.

[Mario2008]

1 post containing illegal advise deleted.