Yingluck And Thaksin Plead Ignorance About Amnesty

[webfact]

RUNAWAY THAKSIN

Yingluck and Thaksin plead ignorance about amnesty

The Nation

Leading figures, including former prime minister Thaksin Shinawatra, appear to have distanced themselves from the government's draft decree for a royal pardon to mark His Majesty the King's 84th birthday.

Thaksin, seen as the main beneficiary of the decree, has been denying any knowledge of the government's push to pardon him from serving his two-year jail term after being convicted for abuse of power.

"It's at the full discretion of His Majesty," he told Reuters on Wednesday in Dubai in reference to the pardon issue.

He said he did know what the Cabinet discussed at its confidential meeting on Tuesday.

Prime Minister Yingluck Shinawatra said on the sidelines of the Asean Summit in Bali that the vetting of the decree was still incomplete and that the authorities had not drawn up the list of names eligible for pardon.

"It's normal for a royal pardon every year before the King's birthday ... They have to work on the legal [aspects]. After that, the committee will select the names. So there are still many processes ... It's not done yet," Yingluck said in an interview with CNBC.

The Senate Committee on Monarchy Protection called on the government to review and cancel a controversial clause granting pardon to fugitives.

Senator Pornpan Boonyarattapan said there was no legal precedent to pardoning fugitives or those convicted for corruption and drug trafficking.

She said senators opposing the decree would on Monday petition the Privy Council and the Office of His Majesty's Principal Private Secretary to review the pardon provisions before submitting them for royal endorsement.

Pornpan said the committee would summon Yingluck for clarification next Friday.

According to the law on the parliamentary committee's authority, a person who ignores a summons from the committee for investigation is liable to up to three months' jail and/or a Bt5,000 fine.

At a rally in Lumpini Park, the leader of the multicoloured shirts, Tul Sitthisomwong, yesterday said he would submit a signed petition at 9am on Tuesday to the prime minister at Government House when the Cabinet meets.

The group asked the Justice Ministry and all related people to stop the process requesting royal pardon for Thaksin for three reasons:

_ The petition for royal pardon for Thaksin is illegal when signed by an unauthorised person, as the prime minister did not attend the meeting, while never before has a fugitive received a royal pardon.

_ Submitting an illegal petition would put His Majesty the King in an awkward position and if it were rejected, some people might feel offended, Tul said.

_ A fugitive who has not shown any sorrow for wrongdoing and conducts himself in a way that threatens the country does not deserve a royal pardon.

The People's Alliance for Democracy will on Monday hold a rally against the draft decree reportedly aimed at securing a royal pardon for Thaksin.

PAD spokesman Parnthep Puaphanpong posted a message on his Facebook page that the yellow-shirt movement would stage a rally in front of the Council of State on Monday from 10am to 6pm.

The Cabinet has approved a draft decree to seek royal pardon for convicts on the occasion of His Majesty the King's birthday. Thaksin's opponents claim the decree's criteria would make the former prime minister eligible to receive royal pardon for his two-year jail term.

Democrat Party deputy spokesman Mallika Boonmeetrakul circulated a letter urging the Privy Council to oppose the decree.

The House Committee on Reconciliation, chaired by Matubhum leader Sonthi Boonyaratglin, made clear at its first meeting that the proposed pardon for Thaksin was not part of the process for mending fences among rival camps.

Sonthi said his committee would rely on the report of the Truth for Reconciliation Commission to guide its work.

Committee deputy spokesman Nakorn Machim said the pardon issue was under the government's jurisdiction without any linkage to the legislative branch.

Deputy Army chief General Dapong Rattanasuwan said the military had no involvement in the pardon issue.

"All military leaders are busy assisting flood victims," he said.

-- The Nation 2011-11-19

[webfact]

Thai protesters rally against Thaksin pardon reports

BANGKOK, November 19, 2011 (AFP) - Hundreds of Thais protested on Friday at the government's reported attempts to bring back fugitive ex-premier Thaksin Shinawatra, as his arch-rivals announced further street action next week.

Thaksin lives abroad to escape a two-year jail term for corruption, but a cabinet meeting this week reportedly endorsed a royal pardon that could allow him to return, prompting an angry response from the opposition.

Local police told AFP that about 800 people from a nationalist group known as the "multi-coloured shirts" were gathering peacefully at a park in Bangkok to protest the plan.

The demonstrators share the same royalist, anti-Thaksin sentiments in Thailand's colour-coded politics as the influential "Yellow Shirts", who are also planning to rally next week, spokesman Parnthep Pourpongpan told AFP.

The People's Alliance for Democracy (PAD), as the Yellows are officially known, will stage a day-long rally on Monday outside the offices of the State Council, the body that gives legal advice to the government.

"Our aim is to protest at government plans to advise to the king to grant a royal pardon for Thaksin. This is the decision of all core PAD leaders," he said.

Thai media reports said a draft decree for an amnesty was approved at a cabinet meeting on Tuesday which Prime Minister Yingluck Shinawatra missed.

Yingluck, who is Thaksin's younger sister and widely seen as his proxy, did not deny the reports when asked at a news conference on Wednesday. Without mentioning her brother, she said such a decree was "a common process".

The Yellow Shirts' street protests have helped to claim the scalps of three governments in under five years, including that of Thaksin in 2006, but they have yet to flex their muscles during Yingluck's premiership.

Last year the rival, pro-Thaksin "Red Shirts" held two months of protests in Bangkok against the-then pro-establishment government and more than 90 people, mostly civilians, were killed in clashes between the army and protesters.

-- (c) Copyright AFP 2011-11-19

[Skywalker69]

As if the bad handling of the flood isen't enough, and now this.

I think PTP can be in for a hell of a bumpy ride.

[Buchholz]

.

So then, none of the Shinawatras' know anything about Shinawatra's government request for a Shinawatra pardon?

hmmmm... ok.

.

[FOODLOVER]

Pants on fire!

[mca]

I get a mental image of a Thaksin aide saying to him over breakfast " Khun Meow have you seen the papers? The government are trying to get the annual amnesty to include you." and Thaksin looking all embarrassed and replying "Really....Aaw shucks. That's nice of them."

[ratcatcher]

.

So then, none of the Shinawatras' know anything about Shinawatra's government request for a Shinawatra pardon?

hmmmm... ok.

.

Ignorance for some people really is bliss,

[tlansford]

The Nation must be really pitching a tent now that the end of November has finally arrived and the annual petition process is underway. Love the headline, too, which is a thoroughly well-thought out piece of BS and not supported by the actual article itself. Thanks, Nation. Let the flames begin...

[pimay11]

The Nation must be really pitching a tent now that the end of November has finally arrived and the annual petition process is underway. Love the headline, too, which is a thoroughly well-thought out piece of BS and not supported by the actual article itself. Thanks, Nation. Let the flames begin...

Question Mr. tlansford. If the government's draft decree includes a pardon for Thaksin do you support it?

[whybother]

The Nation must be really pitching a tent now that the end of November has finally arrived and the annual petition process is underway. Love the headline, too, which is a thoroughly well-thought out piece of BS and not supported by the actual article itself. Thanks, Nation. Let the flames begin...

Both of them denied knowledge of the amnesty. What's wrong the headline?

[scorecard]

The Nation must be really pitching a tent now that the end of November has finally arrived and the annual petition process is underway. Love the headline, too, which is a thoroughly well-thought out piece of BS and not supported by the actual article itself. Thanks, Nation. Let the flames begin...

Question Mr. tlansford. If the government's draft decree includes a pardon for Thaksin do you support it?

Where's geriatrickid?

[Soupdragon]

So if nobody of any importance knows anything about it, the amendments added to ensure that Thaksin is included can be dropped, right ?????

Edited November 19, 2011 by Soupdragon

[rubl]

The Nation must be really pitching a tent now that the end of November has finally arrived and the annual petition process is underway. Love the headline, too, which is a thoroughly well-thought out piece of BS and not supported by the actual article itself. Thanks, Nation. Let the flames begin...

Why do you still read these Nation articles and newsflashes if you only seem to be able to remarks 'piece of sh_ite', or BS? Just trying to be provocative on an otherwise nice Saturday?

Anyway, flaming is against forum rules, asking for it maybe as well

[ETatBKK]

the PM by default has igorance of many other things, including the big water is coming to Bangkok ? her brother Mr T will be very upset if she igores this amesty.

[phupaman]

the PM by default has igorance of many other things, including the big water is coming to Bangkok ? her brother Mr T will be very upset if she igores this amesty.

What planet doe's this Government come from, all of asia is trying hard to fight corruption, and the Thai Gov want to let all people convicted of corruption back on the street, All done for the Number 1 corrupter Khun T.

Phupaman

[lannarebirth]

The Nation must be really pitching a tent now that the end of November has finally arrived and the annual petition process is underway. Love the headline, too, which is a thoroughly well-thought out piece of BS and not supported by the actual article itself. Thanks, Nation. Let the flames begin...

The Nation was behind the curve on this one and is by comparison to other Thai media (both English and Thai) is rather guarded in their reportage. Shoot the messenger another day.

[JUDAS]

Perhaps the following is against forum rules:

HRH King Bhumibol Adulyadej is held in the highest regard by his people. I find it disgraceful that the occasion of HM birthday is being used for political purposes.

[pimay11]

If I was a betting man I would give odds that the reason Chalerm ran everyone out of the room except a select few during the secret meeting is that a call was established to K T and he gave them instructions on how to change the decree.

[ETatBKK]

as said in the other thread, the return of Mr T is a matter of fact, time and how ( not a wish of everyone though ). what upsetting is the disgracefully abuse the law and abuse the kindness of the royal amnesty decree, with no shame.

the play of being ignorance isn't smart, neither Yingluck, Mr T, nor Chalerm. it just re-confirm their wrong doing.

[sparebox2]

There is no Thaksin name mention on the Amnesty decree at all.

[jonclark]

Just out of interest (and I hope some of the more politically astute TV members maybe able to chip in with a reply). How many other state / government officials convicted of corruption who are over 60 would be eligible for this proposed royal pardon?

It can't only be Taksin in this category, can it?

Further to that point, irrespective of the politics around this singular individual, in the longer term this decree might set a precedent that any government or state official who is convicted of corruption need never fear long term imprisonment as those convicted of corruption maybe rewarded with a pardon a few months down the line, especially if they have the money to 'grease the wheels of justice'.

This is hardly a deterrent to those elected to the highest offices in the land.

Consider MPs X, Y and Z- 1 billion baht skimmed of a government mega-project and stashed overseas, 3 months in jail followed by a royal pardon, leave the country, share out the money, buy a villa in the Maldives. Sorted - count me in.

Edited November 19, 2011 by jonclark

[petedk]

Khon Thai gohok geng.

I've heard so many times that farang always tell lies but this Thai government are the masters of lieing.

Everyday we hear one blatant lie after another. Do they really think people believe them?

[hammered]

Thaksin is a an exceedingly clever politician playing a long game.

Interesting that "leading figures" is mentioned. That should undercut what is said with the people. "leading figures" dictating everything without any consideration for the lesser or what they think is one thing that seems a lot less accepted than it used to be

[hammered]

Just out of interest (and I hope some of the more politically astute TV members maybe able to chip in with a reply). How many other state / government officials convicted of corruption who are over 60 would be eligible for this proposed royal pardon?

It can't only be Taksin in this category, can it?

What about Vattana and Kamnan Poh? Loads of we love Kamnan Poh car stickers around Chonburi right now. There werent until recently.

Most state and government officials etc convicted of anything get two years or less as up to two years can be suspended and usually is. A little off topic but that is another thing that has undercut court reputation as how Thaksin was treated was never the same as other PMs and he used it very very skillfully to wrap his myth into the reality of what the poor experience at the hands of state institutions

[jonclark]

Just out of interest (and I hope some of the more politically astute TV members maybe able to chip in with a reply). How many other state / government officials convicted of corruption who are over 60 would be eligible for this proposed royal pardon?

It can't only be Taksin in this category, can it?

What about Vattana and Kamnan Poh? Loads of we love Kamnan Poh car stickers around Chonburi right now. There werent until recently.

Most state and government officials etc convicted of anything get two years or less as up to two years can be suspended and usually is. A little off topic but that is another thing that has undercut court reputation as how Thaksin was treated was never the same as other PMs and he used it very very skillfully to wrap his myth into the reality of what the poor experience at the hands of state institutions

Right so they have added a highly controversial clause to the royal pardon request to seek clemency for 3 people (who we know of). Hmmm

[hellodolly]

Thaksin is a an exceedingly clever politician playing a long game.

Interesting that "leading figures" is mentioned. That should undercut what is said with the people. "leading figures" dictating everything without any consideration for the lesser or what they think is one thing that seems a lot less accepted than it used to be

Don't know how you can see him as clever.

Any one with a clear mind can see he is a egotistical bully who uses his money to corrupt Thai politicians and drain the Thai money into the Shinawatra's bank account.

Nothing clever about him at all he is an your face type bully.

A clever person you would not even know he was screwing you.

[hammered]

Just out of interest (and I hope some of the more politically astute TV members maybe able to chip in with a reply). How many other state / government officials convicted of corruption who are over 60 would be eligible for this proposed royal pardon?

It can't only be Taksin in this category, can it?

What about Vattana and Kamnan Poh? Loads of we love Kamnan Poh car stickers around Chonburi right now. There werent until recently.

Most state and government officials etc convicted of anything get two years or less as up to two years can be suspended and usually is. A little off topic but that is another thing that has undercut court reputation as how Thaksin was treated was never the same as other PMs and he used it very very skillfully to wrap his myth into the reality of what the poor experience at the hands of state institutions

Right so they have added a highly controversial clause to the royal pardon request to seek clemency for 3 people (who we know of). Hmmm

technically they wont have added a clause (we dont actually know what they have done tbh but assuming allegations are correct). They will have removed a clause the previous government wrote in to exclude those convicted of corruption. The added clause was technically from the last government and it was for those who support Thaksin highly controversial to change a pardon to exclude one man especially as the last government had removed the time served condition of the 2007 version. Why did they do that? However, I digress it is like 2 sides of a coin as to what is controversial and what isnt and it depends entirely on what bias people have. It may all be better sorteed out in the legislature which has the power to enact or reject an amnesty. Maybe the council of state will knock the whole pardon recommendation down or maybe the pardon recommendation will just turn out not to include Thaksin in any way and Chalerm has been enjoying winding his opponents into a frenzy and also testing their ability to mobilize, gather support, form alegiances, test loyalties and also see how good the intelligence from within the bureaucracy and military is. Things in this political game are not always what they seem to be

[Roadman]

Perhaps the following is against forum rules:

HRH King Bhumibol Adulyadej is held in the highest regard by his people. I find it disgraceful that the occasion of HM birthday is being used for political purposes.

While it is still up then...I totally agree with you and that he is a convicted criminal who has never done in chains time and who will not admit to his wrong doing. Pheu Thai and the Shinawatra's are a disgrace to Thailand and the monarchy.

[hammered]

Thaksin is a an exceedingly clever politician playing a long game.

Interesting that "leading figures" is mentioned. That should undercut what is said with the people. "leading figures" dictating everything without any consideration for the lesser or what they think is one thing that seems a lot less accepted than it used to be

Don't know how you can see him as clever.

Any one with a clear mind can see he is a egotistical bully who uses his money to corrupt Thai politicians and drain the Thai money into the Shinawatra's bank account.

Nothing clever about him at all he is an your face type bully.

A clever person you would not even know he was screwing you.

Of course he is clever. He wouldnt still be the most powerful politician (not) in Thailand with huge support including a minority of the elite who cant be coerced away from him, a load of big donor business groups and a government in place that basicially is his if he wasnt clever. I understand people dont like him but to underestimate his ability is a little excessive. Who else would have been able to hold a party together filled with all those factions as they were offered all kind of things to change sides?

[jimbeam1]

Deputy Army chief General Dapong Rattanasuwan said the military had no involvement in the pardon issue.

"All military leaders are busy assisting flood victims," he said.

Nice Touch.

jb1