Successful Relationships With Thai Women

[theblether]

Ok TingTawng and ludditeman........At no time did I say that domestic violence was perpetrated only by men. I gave the latest statistic that states the conviction split was 93% for men, and 7% for women in the UK

. Ludditeman, Your next point was that you weren't taken seriously when you reported it to the police. The UK conviction rate for female perpetrators is soaring, so it is being taken seriously now.

However you have just experienced the other end of the stick, known as " What goes on behind closed doors". I would suggest just about every Thaivisa reading this will have some experience or knowledge of a male on female domestic abuser. To suggest that the female of the species is more deadly than the male in this issue is wrong, here are the conviction rates for domestic violence murders in the UK.

http://www.independe...ed-2267096.html

The figure is 94 female victims, 21 male victims. So that makes it a 82% attrition rate in relation to female victims. I think that any reasonable person would agree that the UK police would investigate murders to the nth degree, so these figures may be a more reliable indicator of the true state of domestic violence in the UK.

If you can see any post where I indicated that females were not capable of domestic violence please point it out to me, otherwise an apology would be in order.

TingTawng

I jokingly suggested that I should buy you a book on Self Awareness, or possibly even a book on understanding what is written. My point throughout this thread has been.

The richer Thailand becomes, the more like the West it will become.

I believe I made that clear earlier, however it was obviously not clear enough for you. I do not recollect discussing the relative merits of the Western economies on this thread, if you can see a post where I did discuss the current financial markets etc please point it out to me, otherwise once again an apology is in order.

I did point out that many Thaivisa members will remember poverty in the West, they will remember having to stay with parents and grandparents after marrying as there was a shortage of affordable housing, they will remember overcrowding, they will remember hunger in many cases.

Here is exactly what I said....... "Wealth brings choice, choice brings independence, independence weakens family ties as people choose to move away in pursuit of careers and more money.

There are thousands upon thousands of people on Thaivisa that can remember poverty in the West, they can remember hunger, inadequate housing, large families clubbing together and scraping by...................just like Thailand?

The West then moved to a period of economic expansion, increased educational opportunities, a boom in travel and housing availability.

Thailand is undergoing this type of change already, if you cannot see what is in front of your eyes then up to you "

I have not been visiting Thailand for that long, there are many many Thaivisa members who can remember Thailand of 20, 30, 40 years ago. I am of the opinion that there has been a rapid rush to urbanization and industrialisation. There has also at the same time been a rapid expansion in educational opportunities and international travel by Thais.

Thais are now looking beyond their agrarian heritage, millions of Thais are relocating, ( or have relocated ) in pursuit of money, work and furthering their careers. A direct result of this is the slackening of family ties. Many Thais do not see their families from one year to the next. If you want proof of that, stand by the highways exiting Bangkok during just prior to Songkran next year.

Many Thais are now experiencing the "Christmas, Weddings, and Funerals" family life syndrome so well known in the West. The more economically and industrially developed Thailand becomes, the more choice people have. People will choose lifestyles which are less "extended" family oriented.

You TingTawng, have made it clear your almost pathalogical hatred of the West and Western societies.........you will soon find out that people Worldwide are the same. When they have a choice.......they often choose independence before family. Poverty glues families together because they have no choice.

So I stand by my statement.............

The richer Thailand becomes, the more like the West it will become.

Or maybe you would prefer Thailand to go back to being an agrarian economy so that you can play big chief amongst the little people?

Edited November 30, 2011 by theblether

[TingTawng]

Put that on my gravestone.......here lies theblether, he was egalitarian. I'll be back in a few minutes to excoriate you, but what I'll do is I'll stick to facts, not assumptions.

I don't mind a disagreeing with someone who at least puts his points across succinctly or even with some flare / wit, but you are a sorely lacking. I know you try to dress up your comments with what you would describe as humour, but it's simply not funny. Sad trombone for you.

Edited November 30, 2011 by TingTawng

[TingTawng]

]At no time did I say that domestic violence was perpetrated only by men. I gave the latest statistic that states the conviction split was 93% for men, and 7% for women in the UK

It's funny in that you are completely reactive to my own research on domestic violence (clearly you know nothing about the subject), and ignore Home Office findings that state 40% of victims of domestic violence are men, and you ignore the prejudices men face when reporting domestic violence (prejudices reported by UK Home Office no less), and ignore the other studies included in the Guardian report that back up these figures just because your little mind can't bear to lose an argument on the internet - it's like facts are getting in the way of your little online ego here. Anyway, let me disturb you further:-

http://www.australian-news.com.au/domestic_violence_statistics.htm

The survey of 1643 persons found that men are assaulted more frequently than women in domestic situations, as the tables below reveal.

http://www.csulb.edu/~mfiebert/assault.htm

SUMMARY: This bibliography examines 282 scholarly investigations: 218 empirical studies and 64 reviews and/or analyses, which demonstrate that women are as physically aggressive, or more aggressive, than men in their relationships with their spouses or male partners. The aggregate sample size in the reviewed studies exceeds 369,800.

I present 2 more sets of data to you (if you're willing to unveil your ignorance to let in some truth for a moment).

It took me 5 minutes to get this data via very basic searches for domestic violence statistics. The final link includes 282 studies into domestic violence and the conclusion is pretty clear. This should point you in the right direction if truly you seek actual facts on domestic violence. I'm guessing you don't care about facts, and your sad little ego is directing you toward spouting contrary views to supplied facts.

So either all those (nearly 300) studies are wrong, and your preconception on a subject you know little about is right, or your little ego is getting the better of you here

Give me another 5 minutes and I can get more studies that prove domestic violence really isn't an issue about gender - it's about people who are bullies and can't be in control of their emotions.

Edited November 30, 2011 by TingTawng

[theblether]

]At no time did I say that domestic violence was perpetrated only by men. I gave the latest statistic that states the conviction split was 93% for men, and 7% for women in the UK

It's funny in that you are completely reactive to my own research on domestic violence (clearly you know nothing about the subject), and ignore Home Office findings that state 40% of victims of domestic violence are men, and you ignore the prejudices men face when reporting domestic violence (prejudices reported by UK Home Office no less), and ignore the other studies included in the Guardian report that back up these figures just because your little mind can't bear to lose an argument on the internet - it's like facts are getting in the way of your little online ego here. Anyway, let me disturb you further:-

http://www.australia..._statistics.htm

The survey of 1643 persons found that men are assaulted more frequently than women in domestic situations, as the tables below reveal.

http://www.csulb.edu...ert/assault.htm

SUMMARY: This bibliography examines 282 scholarly investigations: 218 empirical studies and 64 reviews and/or analyses, which demonstrate that women are as physically aggressive, or more aggressive, than men in their relationships with their spouses or male partners. The aggregate sample size in the reviewed studies exceeds 369,800.

I present 2 more sets of data to you (if you're willing to unveil your ignorance to let in some truth for a moment).

It took me 5 minutes to get this data via very basic searches for domestic violence statistics. The final link includes 282 studies into domestic violence and the conclusion is pretty clear.

So either all those (nearly 300) studies are wrong, and your preconception on a subject you know little about is right, or your little ego is getting the better of you here

Go read the surveys yourself and submit a 30,000 word thesis on your findings once your finished. That will give the rest of us peace for a while.

Incidentally why do you feel the need to belittle people?

Edited November 30, 2011 by theblether

[TingTawng]

Go read the surveys yourself and submit a 30,000 word thesis on your findings once your finished. That will give the rest of us peace for a while.

Incidentally why do you feel the need to belittle people?

And there's me thinking I'm simply enlightening someone who claims to be an egalitarian! If you truly cared about equality, you'd thank me for shattering your preconceptions on domestic violence that were rooted in sexist assumptions. Instead you seem annoyed. I've only wanted to offer some facts in this thread. Whether these facts offend you or not is down to how dearly you hold onto your preconceptions.

Edited November 30, 2011 by TingTawng

[theblether]

Go read the surveys yourself and submit a 30,000 word thesis on your findings once your finished. That will give the rest of us peace for a while.

Incidentally why do you feel the need to belittle people?

And there's me thinking I'm simply enlightening someone who claims to be an egalitarian! If you truly cared about equality, you'd thank me for shattering your preconceptions on domestic violence. Instead you seem shell-shocked. Perhaps that's more to do with the over-whelming evidence I've supplied - but no need for the dig there - truly, I've only wanted to offer some facts in this thread. Whether these facts offend you or not is down to how dearly you hold onto your preconceptions.

You've not enlightened me to the issue of domestic violence, I was perfectly aware of that issue well before joining Thaivisa.

However I've noticed that you have adopted an insulting and sneering attitude to just about everyone that makes a point that doesn't suit you. Try just answering the point and keep your low blows to yourself. By attempting to belittle others you are making yourself look small.

[rgs2001uk]

Go read the surveys yourself and submit a 30,000 word thesis on your findings once your finished. That will give the rest of us peace for a while.

Incidentally why do you feel the need to belittle people?

And there's me thinking I'm simply enlightening someone who claims to be an egalitarian! If you truly cared about equality, you'd thank me for shattering your preconceptions on domestic violence. Instead you seem shell-shocked. Perhaps that's more to do with the over-whelming evidence I've supplied - but no need for the dig there - truly, I've only wanted to offer some facts in this thread. Whether these facts offend you or not is down to how dearly you hold onto your preconceptions.

You've not enlightened me to the issue of domestic violence, I was perfectly aware of that issue well before joining Thaivisa.

However I've noticed that you have adopted an insulting and sneering attitude to just about everyone that makes a point that doesn't suit you. Try just answering the point and keep your low blows to yourself. By attempting to belittle others you are making yourself look small.

The user name may provide a clue.

[ludditeman]

Umm, what argument is used by women to justify killing their partners where there is no evidence of physical abuse?

And - as far as I know, divorce is 50/50 - the woman will never take "most of his money"...

Your wasting your time trying to have a balanced debate here f1fanatic. We've got misanthropists, and misogynists, who by their own admission are delusional, ( well at least one of them admitted it, the other one lacks self awareness ).

You forgot to include yourself as a misandrist.

@F1

As far as I know woman with child gets house + 50% of everything else.

As the house is often most of everything in the first place, the 50% of everything else doesn't make much difference to the mans loss.

For men living in the west the first rule must be never let a woman move in, don't let her into your home, if she doesn't have her own house, don't date her.

If she has never lived there, accusations of violence won't lose you your home.

Edited November 30, 2011 by ludditeman

[GreenSnapper]

As far as I know woman with child gets house + 50% of everything else.

As the house is often most of everything in the first place, the 50% of everything else doesn't make much difference to the mans loss.

For men living in the west the first rule must be never let a woman move in, don't let her into your home, if she doesn't have her own house, don't date her.

If she has never lived there, accusations of violence won't lose you your home.

The divorce industry in the UK is even more extreme than in other countries in Europe.

But actually, the reason why in almost all cases women fleece man in divorce is the fact, that women marry upwards. Almost never downwards. That makes them automatically the recipient of a man's assets.

And in the few cases where a woman is forced to pay alimony, she just refuses and makes a runner (80% in Germany).

Another divorce trick is abusing children: in almost all cases the women will be the sole "owner" of the child (sole custody). If the father wants to have contact to his children, he must pay. Otherwise she will use the "abuse"-trick and he will never see his children again.

All this is exactly documented in the many "handbooks for divorce", published by state/feminist organisations. I recommend every man to read those books.

That's why in the West, a man should never marry and never live together with a woman. The system of misandry will otherwise destroy him.

[theblether]

Umm, what argument is used by women to justify killing their partners where there is no evidence of physical abuse?

And - as far as I know, divorce is 50/50 - the woman will never take "most of his money"...

Your wasting your time trying to have a balanced debate here f1fanatic. We've got misanthropists, and misogynists, who by their own admission are delusional, ( well at least one of them admitted it, the other one lacks self awareness ).

You forgot to include yourself as a misandrist.

@F1

As far as I know woman with child gets house + 50% of everything else.

As the house is often most of everything in the first place, the 50% of everything else doesn't make much difference to the mans loss.

For men living in the west the first rule must be never let a woman move in, don't let her into your home, if she doesn't have her own house, don't date her.

If she has never lived there, accusations of violence won't lose you your home.

Here we go again, Misandry? OK Ludditeman, look back through all my posts and show me where I said women were never at fault? Show many any post where I put the interests of women above men?

The level of misogyny you are demonstrating on this thread is appalling.

[TingTawng]

You've not enlightened me to the issue of domestic violence, I was perfectly aware of that issue well before joining Thaivisa.

You've claimed that men make up a very tiny minority of victims of domestic violence at the beginning of this discussion. I presented to you nearly 300 independent studies stating this is not the case, and that really when it comes to domestic violence, gender is hardly a factor - both men and women are roughly equals when it comes to being victims of domestic violence. You haven't actually refuted any of these studies - just humbly stated that you wish I'd perhaps put my comments forward in a different style. So when you say you were already "aware of the issue", it must mean you were aware of all the information I've already put forward here. In which case, I'm not sure why your original comments run counter to all the studies I put forward. It sounds like you weren't aware of the issue beforehand.

However I've noticed that you have adopted an insulting and sneering attitude to just about everyone that makes a point that doesn't suit you. Try just answering the point and keep your low blows to yourself. By attempting to belittle others you are making yourself look small.

This is what it comes down to - I present data, and in return all you can do is reply with ad hominem comments that do not contribute anything. Why not just say "thanks for the information" and move on?

Edited December 1, 2011 by TingTawng

[TingTawng]

theblether, as to your other comments about how Thais are just like westerners these days in regards to the "atomised" family: the average migrant Thai factory worker (e.g. moves from Korat to eastern seaboard or Bangkok) is someone whose child(ren) remain in his/her village while he/she sends money back to the family home in the village. They don't consider their digs (and they normally live in "digs" - a single room / free accommodation) their home. As to middle class migrants, I live in a typical middle class moo-bahn and most of the young couples here who have moved because of work have some extended family that have moved to live with them (mostly grandparents) who help look after their kids. Other examples are of brothers / sisters moving in too (and gaining work in the more prosperous eastern seaboard than their Isan village). This is far from typical in the west.

Edited December 1, 2011 by TingTawng

[ludditeman]

Here we go again, Misandry? OK Ludditeman, look back through all my posts and show me where I said women were never at fault? Show many any post where I put the interests of women above men?

The level of misogyny you are demonstrating on this thread is appalling.

Your misandry is clear in every post you make.

Your frequent claims towards others of misogyny demonstrate your hatred of men.

Edited December 1, 2011 by ludditeman

[TingTawng]

I don't believe ludditeman hates women, nor that theblether hates men. Misogyny and misandry are more often used as insults than as descriptive terms. I hope we can get the discussion back on topic...

[PattaniMan]

Your wasting your time trying to have a balanced debate here f1fanatic. We've got misanthropists, and misogynists, who by their own admission are delusional, ( well at least one of them admitted it, the other one lacks self awareness ).

You forgot to include yourself as a misandrist.

@F1

As far as I know woman with child gets house + 50% of everything else.

As the house is often most of everything in the first place, the 50% of everything else doesn't make much difference to the mans loss.

For men living in the west the first rule must be never let a woman move in, don't let her into your home, if she doesn't have her own house, don't date her.

If she has never lived there, accusations of violence won't lose you your home.

A lot of the misanthropy and misogyny and thaivisagany and bullshitosophy seems to be directed at women in the West.

Let's not forget that some Thai women -- IF GIVEN SUFFICIENT CONTROL OVER THE RELATIONSHIP -- can be equally nasty and controlling and vindictive. Some Thai women will happily break up families in their quest for a "better life". They will use children as pawns. They will restrict, or attempt to cut off completely, the father's access to his children.

In all honesty, I never encountered in the West the levels of spite and manipulation that I've encountered from women here in Thailand.

All of you have heard the numerous horror stories about foreign men being fleeced and totally screwed.

The apologists here on Thaivisa blame the foreign men for being weak and for having relinquished control over the relationship; the so-called misogynists happily lay the blame on the women.

What's amusing is the way in which the apologists attempt to learn from the experience of others. They keep their little pets on a very firm leash. They give their little pets little trinkets. They make it clear to their little pets that a big house will NOT be built in Isaan.

But what they fail to see is that their little pets actually despise them.

[ludditeman]

But what they fail to see is that their little pets actually despise them.

1) Does it really matter, what she thinks of you?

2) Can you ever really know, what she thinks of you?

As long as she does what is expected (sex and babies), and can't get her hands on assets (court or other), why would anyone worry.

If she wants to stop the father seeing the children, as long as he doesn't have to pay for them, why worry easy and fun to make more. Her problem not his.

I always think bad behaviour from one partner should not be rewarded by the other.

Woman says "you can't see your children",

Wrong answer, man says "Waa waa please, please" (Men begging to see their children is so degrading)

Correct answer, man says "OK, bye bye" (job done)

Edited December 1, 2011 by ludditeman

[GreenSnapper]

Let's not forget that some Thai women -- IF GIVEN SUFFICIENT CONTROL OVER THE RELATIONSHIP -- can be equally nasty and controlling and vindictive. Some Thai women will happily break up families in their quest for a "better life". They will use children as pawns. They will restrict, or attempt to cut off completely, the father's access to his children.

In all honesty, I never encountered in the West the levels of spite and manipulation that I've encountered from women here in Thailand.

All of you have heard the numerous horror stories about foreign men being fleeced and totally screwed.

Yes it happens here too - but there are differences.

The fleecing of men in Thailand occurs mostly by bar girls or low class girls. It is often the insecure beta male who gets fleeced.

This can easily be avoided by following some simple rules.

In the West, the fleecing is not limited to the red light district. It is part of the "modern" feminized society. Women are told that they "deserve it" to gain the assets of men. A huge industry of judges, lawyers, authors .... promote divorce and help the women to get the maximum out of a man.

Once married, a man can hardly avoid the fleecing, the whole legal system is against him. There are thousands of suicides each year where the reason is "divorce" and the subsequent economic ruin of men.

In Thailand, or Asia in general, you have a tremendous advantage compared to the West: there is no or only little misandry. Women don't hate men, and women are not educated to hate men.

The strong family ties are another advantage. Once a man is considered part of the family, and not just an ATM, he will have the same privileges as other family members. She will be loyal to him, as long he is loyal to her.

Very different to the West, where women have all sorts of rights, but no obligations or duties.

[PattaniMan]

But what they fail to see is that their little pets actually despise them.

1) Does it really matter, what she thinks of you?

2) Can you ever really know, what she thinks of you?

As long as she does what is expected (sex and babies), and can't get her hands on assets (court or other), why would anyone worry.

If she wants to stop the father seeing the children, as long as he doesn't have to pay for them, why worry easy and fun to make more. Her problem not his.

I always think bad behaviour from one partner should not be rewarded by the other.

Woman says "you can't see your children",

Wrong answer, man says "Waa waa please, please" (Men begging to see their children is so degrading)

Correct answer, man says "OK, bye bye" (job done)

Correct answer, man says "Fuque you -- I'll start a new family with a normal Thai woman and you can spend the rest of your life reflecting on what a vile slut you are" (job done)

Been there, seen it, done it.

[ludditeman]

The apologists here on Thaivisa blame the foreign men for being weak and for having relinquished control over the relationship; the so-called misogynists happily lay the blame on the women.

What's amusing is the way in which the apologists attempt to learn from the experience of others. They keep their little pets on a very firm leash. They give their little pets little trinkets. They make it clear to their little pets that a big house will NOT be built in Isaan.

What you forget is that

in the west a woman can take a mans assets fairly easily, 1 baby and the court will do it.

in Thailand the foreign man actually has to conspire with the woman to break the law in order for a woman to take his assets. (proxy ownership)

Thailand is a great country for relationships, they try to protect foreign men from women, by not allowing them to own property.

[Jimi007]

Well as usual on TV, this thread has gone way off topic. What was the topic again? Successful relationships with Thai women. Yes some of us have them, many more probably never had a successful relationship with anyone...

[PattaniMan]

What was the topic again? Successful relationships with Thai women. Yes some of us have them, many more probably never had a successful relationship with anyone...

Ah -- perhaps now it's time to debate the philosophical nature or meaning of the term "successful relationship".

Some might argue -- with a fair degree of justification -- that a successful relationship is any liaison that produces children. Let's be honest, the reason all of us are here is to reproduce.

Others might reflect on the (alleged) words of St Francis Xavier: "show me the boy at seven, and I'll show you the man". If they do, they might feel that a successful relationship is one that produces children and then nurtures them to the point where their character starts to be defined.

Others may feel that a truly successful relationship is one that produces children and then nurtures them all the way to early adolescence.

Then again, others may have a completely different interpretation.

[villagefarang]

For me a successful relationship is one that does not include children. Dogs maybe but no children.

[thaibeachlovers]

What was the topic again? Successful relationships with Thai women. Yes some of us have them, many more probably never had a successful relationship with anyone...

Ah -- perhaps now it's time to debate the philosophical nature or meaning of the term "successful relationship".

Some might argue -- with a fair degree of justification -- that a successful relationship is any liaison that produces children. Let's be honest, the reason all of us are here is to reproduce.

Others might reflect on the (alleged) words of St Francis Xavier: "show me the boy at seven, and I'll show you the man". If they do, they might feel that a successful relationship is one that produces children and then nurtures them to the point where their character starts to be defined.

Others may feel that a truly successful relationship is one that produces children and then nurtures them all the way to early adolescence.

Then again, others may have a completely different interpretation.

Perhaps some are here only to reproduce, but don't include me in that. Humans can choose whether to or not, and some of us recognise that there are already far too many people in the world to be adding to them.

Also, I'd suggest a successful relationship is one that achieves the objectives of the partners, although that may include having children.

[thaibeachlovers]

For me a successful relationship is one that does not include children. Dogs maybe but no children.

Cats, rabbits, hamsters- anything but sprogs!

[thaibeachlovers]

Your wasting your time trying to have a balanced debate here f1fanatic. We've got misanthropists, and misogynists, who by their own admission are delusional, ( well at least one of them admitted it, the other one lacks self awareness ).

You forgot to include yourself as a misandrist.

@F1

As far as I know woman with child gets house + 50% of everything else.

As the house is often most of everything in the first place, the 50% of everything else doesn't make much difference to the mans loss.

For men living in the west the first rule must be never let a woman move in, don't let her into your home, if she doesn't have her own house, don't date her.

If she has never lived there, accusations of violence won't lose you your home.

A lot of the misanthropy and misogyny and thaivisagany and bullshitosophy seems to be directed at women in the West.

Let's not forget that some Thai women -- IF GIVEN SUFFICIENT CONTROL OVER THE RELATIONSHIP -- can be equally nasty and controlling and vindictive. Some Thai women will happily break up families in their quest for a "better life". They will use children as pawns. They will restrict, or attempt to cut off completely, the father's access to his children.

In all honesty, I never encountered in the West the levels of spite and manipulation that I've encountered from women here in Thailand.

All of you have heard the numerous horror stories about foreign men being fleeced and totally screwed.

The apologists here on Thaivisa blame the foreign men for being weak and for having relinquished control over the relationship; the so-called misogynists happily lay the blame on the women.

What's amusing is the way in which the apologists attempt to learn from the experience of others. They keep their little pets on a very firm leash. They give their little pets little trinkets. They make it clear to their little pets that a big house will NOT be built in Isaan.

But what they fail to see is that their little pets actually despise them.

Why are you surprised at the attitude towards western women? Why do you think that most of us are here? Think about it.

Other than a few hard core Pattaya BGs I've never encountered the level of dislike for farang men that you describe. In my experience Thai women treat men the same way that the men treat them, ie treat them nicely and they'll be nice back. It does help that they don't start a relationship with the attitude that men are bad and stupid though.

[theblether]

<br>

You've not enlightened me to the issue of domestic violence, I was perfectly aware of that issue well before joining Thaivisa.

<br><br>You've claimed that men make up a very tiny minority of victims of domestic violence at the beginning of this discussion. I presented to you nearly 300 independent studies stating this is not the case, and that really when it comes to domestic violence, gender is hardly a factor - both men and women are roughly equals when it comes to being victims of domestic violence.  You haven't actually refuted any of these studies - just humbly stated that you wish I'd perhaps put my comments forward in a different style. So when you say you were already "aware of the issue", it must mean you were aware of all the information I've already put forward here. In which case, I'm not sure why your original comments run counter to all the studies I put forward.  It sounds like you weren't aware of the issue beforehand.<br><br>

However I've noticed that you have adopted an insulting and sneering attitude to just about everyone that makes a point that doesn't suit you. Try just answering the point and keep your low blows to yourself. By attempting to belittle others you are making yourself look small.

<br><br>This is what it comes down to - I present data, and in return all you can do is reply with ad hominem comments that do not contribute anything.  Why not just say "thanks for the information" and move on?<br>

<div><br></div><div>

You presented studies.......I presented convictions. re Ad Hominem, I would say it is fair comment that you have adopted a sneering and contemptuous attitude to many members that have dared to disagree with you. You seem incapable of making a point without making a belittling aside attached to it ( normally in brackets, just like this ). If anyone can be bothered reviewing the posts that have been made they may well find a pattern emerging.You try too look smart by denigrating others. I'll stand by what I have written, you no doubt will stand by what you have written. That'll do nicely please.

</div>

Edited December 1, 2011 by theblether

[ludditeman]

What was the topic again? Successful relationships with Thai women. Yes some of us have them, many more probably never had a successful relationship with anyone...

Ah -- perhaps now it's time to debate the philosophical nature or meaning of the term "successful relationship".

I have to agree, a successful relationship produces children (that include both partners DNA), an unsuccessful relationship doesn't.

Once you have produced children, you are merely debating the details and degree of the success.

[theblether]

theblether, as to your other comments about how Thais are just like westerners these days in regards to the "atomised" family: the average migrant Thai factory worker (e.g. moves from Korat to eastern seaboard or Bangkok) is someone whose child(ren) remain in his/her village while he/she sends money back to the family home in the village. They don't consider their digs (and they normally live in "digs" - a single room / free accommodation) their home. As to middle class migrants, I live in a typical middle class moo-bahn and most of the young couples here who have moved because of work have some extended family that have moved to live with them (mostly grandparents) who help look after their kids. Other examples are of brothers / sisters moving in too (and gaining work in the more prosperous eastern seaboard than their Isan village). This is far from typical in the west.

I don't know which country you are from, but I am from the UK. I can guarantee you that many people work away from home and send money home to support their families in the UK. I would lay you odds that just about every Thaivisa member of an age has had to do so at some point in their lives. I would hazard a guess that even you have had to do so in the past too.

I can also assure you that there are hundreds of thousands, if not millions, of grandparents and extended family members as primary carers for children, in the West. You seem to have an attitude that Thais are a unique sub-species of the Human Race. They are not, we are all the same. My point is that many of the experiences of people in Thailand have been mirrored by people in the West in the recent past.

Germany suffered starvation for a while after the War, and the vast majority of Western Europe suffered food shortages and rationing. TB was rife, and polio at epidemic standards, housing was poor and universally inadequate. Many families were forced to live together due to the housing shortages, and in many areas slum style housing was the norm. Poverty was rife and people feared the onset of winter. This type of lifestyle was the norm for the vast majority of working class people up until the 1960's when things started to change with the advent of the ( now reviled ) housing projects which were seen as a godsend at the time.

This is not ancient history, between approx 1960 and 2010 the quality of life for the median working man soared. Many people may be nostalgic for the 50's but when they really think what life was like back then they wouldn't swap back now.

In the last 20 years Thailand has started to see the fruits of this capitalist boom too, the people here are starting to live the same lifestyle as the West. They are starting to urbanize, move away from their families, live in condominiums etc etc Give it another 20 years and you will see far more similarities with the West than I think you are prepared to accept.

[theblether]

Your wasting your time trying to have a balanced debate here f1fanatic. We've got misanthropists, and misogynists, who by their own admission are delusional, ( well at least one of them admitted it, the other one lacks self awareness ).

You forgot to include yourself as a misandrist.

@F1

As far as I know woman with child gets house + 50% of everything else.

As the house is often most of everything in the first place, the 50% of everything else doesn't make much difference to the mans loss.

For men living in the west the first rule must be never let a woman move in, don't let her into your home, if she doesn't have her own house, don't date her.

If she has never lived there, accusations of violence won't lose you your home.

A lot of the misanthropy and misogyny and thaivisagany and bullshitosophy seems to be directed at women in the West.

Let's not forget that some Thai women -- IF GIVEN SUFFICIENT CONTROL OVER THE RELATIONSHIP -- can be equally nasty and controlling and vindictive. Some Thai women will happily break up families in their quest for a "better life". They will use children as pawns. They will restrict, or attempt to cut off completely, the father's access to his children.

In all honesty, I never encountered in the West the levels of spite and manipulation that I've encountered from women here in Thailand.

All of you have heard the numerous horror stories about foreign men being fleeced and totally screwed.

The apologists here on Thaivisa blame the foreign men for being weak and for having relinquished control over the relationship; the so-called misogynists happily lay the blame on the women.

What's amusing is the way in which the apologists attempt to learn from the experience of others. They keep their little pets on a very firm leash. They give their little pets little trinkets. They make it clear to their little pets that a big house will NOT be built in Isaan.

But what they fail to see is that their little pets actually despise them.

Why are you surprised at the attitude towards western women? Why do you think that most of us are here? Think about it.

Other than a few hard core Pattaya BGs I've never encountered the level of dislike for farang men that you describe. In my experience Thai women treat men the same way that the men treat them, ie treat them nicely and they'll be nice back. It does help that they don't start a relationship with the attitude that men are bad and stupid though.

+1 , you've nailed it Thaibeachlover.

[TingTawng]

You presented studies.......I presented convictions. re Ad Hominem, I would say it is fair comment that you have adopted a sneering and contemptuous attitude to many members that have dared to disagree with you. You seem incapable of making a point without making a belittling aside attached to it ( normally in brackets, just like this ). If anyone can be bothered reviewing the posts that have been made they may well find a pattern emerging.You try too look smart by denigrating others. I'll stand by what I have written, you no doubt will stand by what you have written. That'll do nicely please.

Convictions? That sounds almost like a faith. You're like the flat earther who - having been presented with evidence that shows the earth is round and has their belief shattered - still chooses to hold onto their belief. As I've said, it's hard to let go of preconceptions when you've had them in your head for years. There's 3 stages to any truth being recognised. First, it's ridiculed, then it's argued against, then after all the cognitive dissonance and fear and confusion, finally accepted. You're at stage two at the moment.