Can I Become A Thai Citizen?

[AngryParent]

I bet enough cash will buy thai citizenship.

Who want my money?

Are you offering a job that pays 40,000 baht a month?

[AngryParent]

I bet enough cash will buy thai citizenship.

Who want my money?

I am very angry today so I will actually agree with you.

If you have enough money, you buy a house - get your yellow house book with your name in it.

Open a sex shop (but it is called a bar), have 4 sex workers on your payroll and pay tax for them. You can now be employed in your own business (warped world) and get a work permit.

You now have a work permit and you pay tax for a salary of 40,000 a month about 10,000 a year in tax.

Now bounce up and down with your sex workers for a few years (whilst bouncing) demand that one of your employees marries you - it only costs less than 100 Baht at the local registry office to get married.

YOU now have citizenship!

Whilst this poor ar@@@hole father and husband of Thai nationals - who has been contributing to 1000s of kids futures in Thailand as a teacher is in a worse position than your bouncy workers!

What a country and what a system?

And what is funny about this is that not one Satang is black-money or used as a bribe etc.

Edited November 23, 2011 by AngryParent

[ludditeman]

As far as I can see, there is no financial requirement if you are applying for citizenship on 'humanitarian grounds'

Merely marriage to Thai, Thai kids and 3 years consecutive on a suitable Visa extension (married)

Humanitarian grounds is a 2008 addition to the rules (unless you know different)

So not much info about on it.

Edited November 23, 2011 by ludditeman

[AngryParent]

As far as I can see, there is no financial requirement if you are applying for citizenship on 'humanitarian grounds'

Merely marriage to Thai, Thai kids and 3 years consecutive on a suitable Visa extension (married)

Humanitarian grounds is a 2008 addition to the rules (unless you know different)

So not much info about on it.

I read that in the original English link I gave you. However, the special branch website (all in Thai) does not have any mention of humanitarian grounds. If you can find this mentioned there, please let me know - I will probably go on Friday to BKK and it would be nice to have all questions and data in advance!

http://www.sbpolice....t/service03.jsp Please, for all those with excellent Thai and legal knowledge, could you have a look at this page - it has all the current requirements for Thai citizenship and comment.

To add a bit more: I have 5 years of work visa. However, think about this, how can a person get a marriage visa if income is less than 40,000 a month? A bit circular the requirement. Are you sure it is not just an non-imm (O or B - not specified)?

Edited November 23, 2011 by AngryParent

[ludditeman]

As far as I can see, there is no financial requirement if you are applying for citizenship on 'humanitarian grounds'

Merely marriage to Thai, Thai kids and 3 years consecutive on a suitable Visa extension (married)

Humanitarian grounds is a 2008 addition to the rules (unless you know different)

So not much info about on it.

I read that in the original English link I gave you. However, the special branch website (all in Thai) does not have any mention of humanitarian grounds. If you can find this mentioned there, please let me know - I will probably go on Friday to BKK and it would be nice to have all questions and data in advance!

http://www.sbpolice....t/service03.jsp

To add a bit more: I have 5 years of work visa. However, think about this, how can a person get a marriage visa if income is less than 40,000 a month? A bit circular the requirement. Are you sure it is not just an non-imm (O or B - not specified)?

That just means the guy running the Thai SB website doesn't bother to update the rules every year, typical.

I don't have your financial restrictions, so wage is not a problem for me.

Edited November 23, 2011 by ludditeman

[terryq]

Angry Parent, a good choice of user name it appears, hope you don't turn up at Special Branch with that attitude.

It appears you have been here a short time and expect the rules to be changed because they don't suit. Sorry doesn't work that way.

Also you are suggesting that people that have obtained citizenship have done it be breaking the rules and running a whorehouse !!

Personally, I have been married ( to a Thai) for 25 years and have been living here permanently for over 20, BUT I have never worked in Thailand so I actually have less chance of PR or citizenship than you. But they are the rules, I don't think they're going to change them on my say so.

So I'm going to suggest, no insist, that any body married to a Thai for 25 years is automatically given Thai citizenship !!

I still hope you are eventually successful, but it will take considerable time as everyone else who has obtained PR or citizenship has said.

[AngryParent]

As far as I can see, there is no financial requirement if you are applying for citizenship on 'humanitarian grounds'

Merely marriage to Thai, Thai kids and 3 years consecutive on a suitable Visa extension (married)

Humanitarian grounds is a 2008 addition to the rules (unless you know different)

So not much info about on it.

I read that in the original English link I gave you. However, the special branch website (all in Thai) does not have any mention of humanitarian grounds. If you can find this mentioned there, please let me know - I will probably go on Friday to BKK and it would be nice to have all questions and data in advance!

http://www.sbpolice....t/service03.jsp

To add a bit more: I have 5 years of work visa. However, think about this, how can a person get a marriage visa if income is less than 40,000 a month? A bit circular the requirement. Are you sure it is not just an non-imm (O or B - not specified)?

That just means the guy running the Thai SB website doesn't bother to update the rules every year, typical.

I don't have your financial restrictions, so wage is not a problem for me.

It is mission impossible. Read:

3.2 กรณีมีความเกี่ยวกันหรือสัมพันธ์กับประเทศไทย เช่นสมรสกับ บุคคลผู้มีสัญชาติไทย หรือมีบุตรเป็นบุคคลสัญชาติไทย หรือจบการศึกษาในระดับอุดมศึกษาจากสถาบัน การศึกษาในประเทศไทยจะต้องมีรายได้ไม่ต่ากว่าเดือนละ 40,000 บาท / เดือน โดยแสดงหนังสือรับรองเงินเดือน / รายได้เป็นหลักฐาน และแสดงหลักฐานการเสียภาษีมาแล้วไม่น้อยกว่า 3 ปี หรือเสียภาษีเงินได้บุคคลธรรมดาในรอบปีที่ยื่นคาขอแปลงสัญชาติเป็นไทย ตั้งแต่ 50,000.-บาทขึ้นไปไม่น้อยกว่า 3 ปี และต้องมีหนังสือรับรองเงินเดือน / รายได้มาแสดงประกอบด้วย

Under this, the minimum salary is 40,000 Baht a month (@Samran - this means I need to be a slave for 3 more years and not 1). And the big bang is that tax needs to be paid at a minimum of 50,000 Baht for the last 3 years (excludes social 750 Baht/month contributions).

Under Thai tax law, such does not compute as a person who is married (has an extra allowance) and tax returns will not equal 50,000.

[AngryParent]

Angry Parent, a good choice of user name it appears, hope you don't turn up at Special Branch with that attitude.

It appears you have been here a short time and expect the rules to be changed because they don't suit. Sorry doesn't work that way.

Also you are suggesting that people that have obtained citizenship have done it be breaking the rules and running a whorehouse !!

Personally, I have been married ( to a Thai) for 25 years and have been living here permanently for over 20, BUT I have never worked in Thailand so I actually have less chance of PR or citizenship than you. But they are the rules, I don't think they're going to change them on my say so.

So I'm going to suggest, no insist, that any body married to a Thai for 25 years is automatically given Thai citizenship !!

I still hope you are eventually successful, but it will take considerable time as everyone else who has obtained PR or citizenship has said.

If you call being here as a person that develops Thai children, for a period that is more than what many EU countries requires Thai citizens to qualify for EU citizenship, as a short time. Then hey, let's keep a nominal 2000 year minimum residence criteria. That just about qualifies me for Roman citizenship and Thailand's carrot and donkey system is not far behind that. In Rome one had to kill to get citizenship - Thailand?

I have been there and it is a dead end!

It is illogical and the rules are not for normal people - they suit rich people or criminals!

As shown above, the tax requirement does not harmonize with the citizenship requirement.

Now, after my few words above, YES, you should qualify for citizenship, permanent residence and every other stable thing you deserve.

You should be able to buy a house, live in it, have legal rights, not have to report like a convict every 90 days.

You should be able to work like a free man, without fear that if you lose your job you need to leave the country and your wife and son will die.

You should be able to walk in the street without fear that you did not wai everybody and anybody.

Get the point?

[AngryParent]

^^

GaryP - did you mean to say that the earnings required in your case were 80,000? Or was there a savings element to it for you?

In my case - for my wife to apply the required income was 15,000. So apologies to the OP if I have inadvertently mislead.

Also to the OP, my wife's application has been placed on hold by us as we are outside of Thailand for family reasons. She was due to do the final interview a few months ago but we asked for that to be postponed. We intend to re-start it mid next year.

All forgiven and forgotten!

Edited November 23, 2011 by AngryParent

[ludditeman]

You should be able to buy a house, live in it, have legal rights, not have to report like a convict every 90 days.

You should be able to work like a free man, without fear that if you lose your job you need to leave the country and your wife and son will die.

You should be able to walk in the street without fear that you did not wai everybody and anybody.

Get the point?

Your wife can buy a house, or you can buy one for her.

If you leave the country your wife and son won't die, you are easily replaceable. Even the single women seem to survive and bring up children.

I never wai anyone, they wai me as I have higher status than them.

my points are different to your points but equally valid.

[AngryParent]

You should be able to buy a house, live in it, have legal rights, not have to report like a convict every 90 days.

You should be able to work like a free man, without fear that if you lose your job you need to leave the country and your wife and son will die.

You should be able to walk in the street without fear that you did not wai everybody and anybody.

Get the point?

Your wife can buy a house, or you can buy one for her.

If you leave the country your wife and son won't die, you are easily replaceable. Even the single women seem to survive and bring up children.

I never wai anyone, they wai me as I have higher status than them.

my points are different to your points but equally valid.

After reading your post I wanted to vomit!

How dare you say I can buy a house or my wife can when we live on a govt teacher's salary in Thailand.

How dare you say I am replaceable as a father and a husband.

Nazi Germany was less evil. Good night and good bye!

[endure]

Angry Parent, a good choice of user name it appears, hope you don't turn up at Special Branch with that attitude.

It appears you have been here a short time and expect the rules to be changed because they don't suit. Sorry doesn't work that way.

Also you are suggesting that people that have obtained citizenship have done it be breaking the rules and running a whorehouse !!

Personally, I have been married ( to a Thai) for 25 years and have been living here permanently for over 20, BUT I have never worked in Thailand so I actually have less chance of PR or citizenship than you. But they are the rules, I don't think they're going to change them on my say so.

So I'm going to suggest, no insist, that any body married to a Thai for 25 years is automatically given Thai citizenship !!

I still hope you are eventually successful, but it will take considerable time as everyone else who has obtained PR or citizenship has said.

If you call being here as a person that develops Thai children, for a period that is more than what many EU countries requires Thai citizens to qualify for EU citizenship, as a short time. Then hey, let's keep a nominal 2000 year minimum residence criteria. That just about qualifies me for Roman citizenship and Thailand's carrot and donkey system is not far behind that. In Rome one had to kill to get citizenship - Thailand?

I have been there and it is a dead end!

It is illogical and the rules are not for normal people - they suit rich people or criminals!

As shown above, the tax requirement does not harmonize with the citizenship requirement.

Now, after my few words above, YES, you should qualify for citizenship, permanent residence and every other stable thing you deserve.

You should be able to buy a house, live in it, have legal rights, not have to report like a convict every 90 days.

You should be able to work like a free man, without fear that if you lose your job you need to leave the country and your wife and son will die.

You should be able to walk in the street without fear that you did not wai everybody and anybody.

Get the point?

If you want to live in (name the country) then you obey (the country's rules). If you don't like the rules then choose a country whose rules you like.

In the grand scheme of things you are not important.

[AngryParent]

Angry Parent, a good choice of user name it appears, hope you don't turn up at Special Branch with that attitude.

It appears you have been here a short time and expect the rules to be changed because they don't suit. Sorry doesn't work that way.

Also you are suggesting that people that have obtained citizenship have done it be breaking the rules and running a whorehouse !!

Personally, I have been married ( to a Thai) for 25 years and have been living here permanently for over 20, BUT I have never worked in Thailand so I actually have less chance of PR or citizenship than you. But they are the rules, I don't think they're going to change them on my say so.

So I'm going to suggest, no insist, that any body married to a Thai for 25 years is automatically given Thai citizenship !!

I still hope you are eventually successful, but it will take considerable time as everyone else who has obtained PR or citizenship has said.

If you call being here as a person that develops Thai children, for a period that is more than what many EU countries requires Thai citizens to qualify for EU citizenship, as a short time. Then hey, let's keep a nominal 2000 year minimum residence criteria. That just about qualifies me for Roman citizenship and Thailand's carrot and donkey system is not far behind that. In Rome one had to kill to get citizenship - Thailand?

I have been there and it is a dead end!

It is illogical and the rules are not for normal people - they suit rich people or criminals!

As shown above, the tax requirement does not harmonize with the citizenship requirement.

Now, after my few words above, YES, you should qualify for citizenship, permanent residence and every other stable thing you deserve.

You should be able to buy a house, live in it, have legal rights, not have to report like a convict every 90 days.

You should be able to work like a free man, without fear that if you lose your job you need to leave the country and your wife and son will die.

You should be able to walk in the street without fear that you did not wai everybody and anybody.

Get the point?

If you want to live in (name the country) then you obey (the country's rules). If you don't like the rules then choose a country whose rules you like.

In the grand scheme of things you are not important.

In the grand scheme of things, people, cultures, nations are judged on how they treat foreigners and their system of justice.

I am not asking for the world. I am just asking for a fraction of what you and me get in our own countries. Add to it a wife and son and the equation does not balance on any human rights scale.

Would you like me to post the UN's or the EU's human rights docs - if you knew anything about the value of life you would have been aware of this before - I think 1948... how many years has passed?

It is always a pleasure to talk to those who dismiss life based on quick perspecitves of life.

Edited November 23, 2011 by AngryParent

[endure]

Angry Parent, a good choice of user name it appears, hope you don't turn up at Special Branch with that attitude.

It appears you have been here a short time and expect the rules to be changed because they don't suit. Sorry doesn't work that way.

Also you are suggesting that people that have obtained citizenship have done it be breaking the rules and running a whorehouse !!

Personally, I have been married ( to a Thai) for 25 years and have been living here permanently for over 20, BUT I have never worked in Thailand so I actually have less chance of PR or citizenship than you. But they are the rules, I don't think they're going to change them on my say so.

So I'm going to suggest, no insist, that any body married to a Thai for 25 years is automatically given Thai citizenship !!

I still hope you are eventually successful, but it will take considerable time as everyone else who has obtained PR or citizenship has said.

If you call being here as a person that develops Thai children, for a period that is more than what many EU countries requires Thai citizens to qualify for EU citizenship, as a short time. Then hey, let's keep a nominal 2000 year minimum residence criteria. That just about qualifies me for Roman citizenship and Thailand's carrot and donkey system is not far behind that. In Rome one had to kill to get citizenship - Thailand?

I have been there and it is a dead end!

It is illogical and the rules are not for normal people - they suit rich people or criminals!

As shown above, the tax requirement does not harmonize with the citizenship requirement.

Now, after my few words above, YES, you should qualify for citizenship, permanent residence and every other stable thing you deserve.

You should be able to buy a house, live in it, have legal rights, not have to report like a convict every 90 days.

You should be able to work like a free man, without fear that if you lose your job you need to leave the country and your wife and son will die.

You should be able to walk in the street without fear that you did not wai everybody and anybody.

Get the point?

If you want to live in (name the country) then you obey (the country's rules). If you don't like the rules then choose a country whose rules you like.

In the grand scheme of things you are not important.

In the grand scheme of things, people, cultures, nations are judged on how they treat foreigners and their system of justice.

I am not asking for the world. I am just asking for a fraction of what you and me get in our own countries. Add to it a wife and son and the equation does not balance on any human rights scale.

You are not in your own country. The fact that you have a wife and son is a situation of your own making. The concept of 'human rights' is a novel concept in Thailand. If you want to be treated in the way that you would be if you lived in your home country then the best thing to do is to live in your home country.

[AngryParent]

@endure

Brave words!

Goes against the concept that Thailand has multiple human rights departments, gets funding for human rights, and is a signatory to various international HR docs!

I am sure you will be taking a Thai government plane tomorrow to null and void all those international legal documents so to legalize and ensure your Thai Visa forum post is valid!

First stop UN... then EU, then ASEAN! Have a happy flight and hope the inflight entertainment is OK!

Edited November 23, 2011 by AngryParent

[endure]

You started this thread with the title "Can I Become A Thai Citizen?". Samran and others have given you options that would enable you to do just that. The options require you to get in touch with the organisations that actually grant Thai citizenship. Arguing with me or anyone else on Thaivisa may satisfy your ego but I'm afraid that I have no power to give you a visa. Perhaps you ought to talk to the people who can?

[skippybangkok]

When i applied, i thought i did not meet the criteria as they just instated a 5 yr rule on residence ( PR)..... but obviously i did.).

The advice from the police " just come and talk with us, we will tell you if you meet the criteria or not".......

so just toodle on down there. You dont have to be rich, but there are things they look at ( i.e. ability to sustain your family, being married and having a kind would count ....)

[AngryParent]

You started this thread with the title "Can I Become A Thai Citizen?". Samran and others have given you options that would enable you to do just that. The options require you to get in touch with the organisations that actually grant Thai citizenship. Arguing with me or anyone else on Thaivisa may satisfy your ego but I'm afraid that I have no power to give you a visa. Perhaps you ought to talk to the people who can?

Thank you!

I have contacted and was told it is game over. Yes, Samran is a nice guy and he told me to go down... but at the same time, there is only so much that I can do. When the brick wall is shown to me all I can do now is grumble.

Smoke and mirrors: The issue of the yellow book was not unknown, the issue of the income was not unknown and various other matters, But, with all my posts nobody mentioned those.

This Citizenship route is not new... 2008/9.

Edited November 23, 2011 by AngryParent

[AngryParent]

OK! For those who really care.

I will travel down to BKK on Friday. I should be in BKK around 12. And I will make my way down to Special Branch (Rama 1).

If you really care about a Thai wife and son - (you can hate me), I will be happy to meet all those that can help my wife and son.

I am not a mafia man, I am just a teacher. If anybody that wants to assist please let me know.

[Time Traveller]

AngryParent, It seems like you’re in a hurry or have some urgency to get citizenship? According to your statements you’ve only been here 5 yrs and don’t have a grasp of the language.... Why not just chill out take time to learn Language (this will help with getting points necessary for passing the test), save some money, work on finding higher paid occupation and then apply? Very few countries hand out citizenship to people who can’t speak the language, have no assets and low income. Most also require many more years of residency.

It’s not reasonable that you are complaining about the requirements when the guidelines are very straightforward from what has been written from the document on Police Website and has been reported in other topics elsewhere. I'm not sure how anyone else can help you apart from the advice already given. Also, they do not - as you say - favor rich or criminals, since each applicant must go through a thorough background check as well. You know there are people who were born here and live their whole lives 25yrs+ and are still waiting for citizenships. Why should you have special priority?

Edited November 23, 2011 by Time Traveller

[Maestro]

...so just toodle on down there. You dont have to be rich, but there are things they look at ( i.e. ability to sustain your family, being married and having a kind would count ....)

And not to forget, contribution to Thai society counts for a lot, too, in the evaluation.

[Maestro]

...I have contacted and was told it is game over...

Was that a personal contact, ie a visit to special branch as has been suggested to you? I remember reading that you said you were going on Friday, which I took to mean November 25.

[Maestro]

...What a country and what a system?...

If you plan to show that attitude in your meetings with Special Branch -- and I guess you can't act otherwise than being yourself -- you may want to drop the whole idea of Thai citizenship. You won't have much of a chance.

[Maestro]

I recently received my approval. Yes, there is a process that one must go through and, yes, it does take time.

I know that the time from application to notification of approval can vary from one applicant to the next, from one Minister of the Interior to the next, but it would interest me and probably also other members to hear how long it took in your case.

[ludditeman]

You should be able to buy a house, live in it, have legal rights, not have to report like a convict every 90 days.

You should be able to work like a free man, without fear that if you lose your job you need to leave the country and your wife and son will die.

You should be able to walk in the street without fear that you did not wai everybody and anybody.

Get the point?

Your wife can buy a house, or you can buy one for her.

If you leave the country your wife and son won't die, you are easily replaceable. Even the single women seem to survive and bring up children.

I never wai anyone, they wai me as I have higher status than them.

my points are different to your points but equally valid.

After reading your post I wanted to vomit!

How dare you say I can buy a house or my wife can when we live on a govt teacher's salary in Thailand.

How dare you say I am replaceable as a father and a husband.

Nazi Germany was less evil. Good night and good bye!

My wifes sister in law is a Primary school teacher earning 15k a month, she has a 'home loan' and a house.

Her husband works in a hotel earning 10k a month.

So they are buying a house on a total income of 25k a month, a fairly good wage for a Thai family. They own a car too.

Do you really earn less than 25k a month?

[TheChiefJustice]

I recently received my approval. Yes, there is a process that one must go through and, yes, it does take time.

I know that the time from application to notification of approval can vary from one applicant to the next, from one Minister of the Interior to the next, but it would interest me and probably also other members to hear how long it took in your case.

Hi Maestro - thank you for asking. The relevant timeframe for my citizenship application/approval process was as follows:

May 2007 - Lodge application with Special Branch

August 2007 - Special Branch Interview

November 2007 - Interview (at my office) from the Thai equivalent of the FBI

August 2008 - Interior Ministry interview

July 2011 - Application approved by Interior Minister

Cheers,

CJ

[GarryP]

Congratulations CJ. That does not seem too long in the whole scheme of things.

[hehehoho]

why are people saying that as a foreigner you cannot buy a house?

There is no problem with you, a foreigner, owning your own house in Thailand, in your name.

[lopburi3]

Perhaps because most do not consider 'house' to mean 'mobile home' so consider the ownership of the land a house is built on to be a requirement.

[AngryParent]

AngryParent, It seems like you’re in a hurry or have some urgency to get citizenship? According to your statements you’ve only been here 5 yrs and don’t have a grasp of the language.... Why not just chill out take time to learn Language (this will help with getting points necessary for passing the test), save some money, work on finding higher paid occupation and then apply? Very few countries hand out citizenship to people who can’t speak the language, have no assets and low income. Most also require many more years of residency.

It’s not reasonable that you are complaining about the requirements when the guidelines are very straightforward from what has been written from the document on Police Website and has been reported in other topics elsewhere. I'm not sure how anyone else can help you apart from the advice already given. Also, they do not - as you say - favor rich or criminals, since each applicant must go through a thorough background check as well. You know there are people who were born here and live their whole lives 25yrs+ and are still waiting for citizenships. Why should you have special priority?

Much of your post is OK.

However, you are wrong regarding your assessment of other countries. Most countries hand out stability and security to remain and work within the nation to those who are married and with kids. Thailand does not. Hence the requirement for citizenship. This goes against the rights of a family - UN (which Thailand signed).

I never said I can't speak the language - I can (to a certain extent). I never said I have no assets (just not much), this "low income" is more than enough to support a family on and is accepted when providing a work visa i.e. it is considered OK by immigration but it is not consistent with citizenship law - this is a flaw.