AngryParent Posted November 21, 2011 Share Posted November 21, 2011 Simple question but it seems to have various answers. Can I become a Thai citizen, without the overpriced permanent residence (that nobody gets)? I have a Thai wife, and Thai son, have worked here for 5+ years as a goverment school teacher and can speak a bit of Thai - survival level. I am not a rich Swiss banker that can buy it! Is it possible to get it a "normal" way like in the West? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ludditeman Posted November 21, 2011 Share Posted November 21, 2011 No You will never be a Thai citizen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AngryParent Posted November 21, 2011 Author Share Posted November 21, 2011 (edited) No You will never be a Thai citizen. And can I ask you to elaborate on why it is not possible? Edited November 21, 2011 by AngryParent Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ludditeman Posted November 21, 2011 Share Posted November 21, 2011 No You will never be a Thai citizen. And can I ask you to elaborate on why it is not possible? 1) You are not rich 2) You cannot speak, read and write Thai 3) You don't pay much tax Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AngryParent Posted November 21, 2011 Author Share Posted November 21, 2011 No You will never be a Thai citizen. And can I ask you to elaborate on why it is not possible? 1) You are not rich 2) You cannot speak, read and write Thai 3) You don't pay much tax Thank you. 1 I agree with you on. 2. That can change. 3. I pay more than a significant number of Thais - even those that have businesses (many just don't seem to pay). Is there a law that you can refer me to? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ludditeman Posted November 21, 2011 Share Posted November 21, 2011 how to .. become a Thai citizen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AngryParent Posted November 21, 2011 Author Share Posted November 21, 2011 @ludditeman Thanks for that. I had read that before and also spoke to a couple of lawyers. One said I must get pemanent residence and they will help but I must give them 500,000 Baht or something close. Another said the same as the post you referred me to. With all the double stories, I was hoping for some concrete facts. Has anybody tried this? I noticed there was one post from a guy about 4-5 years back - but he is now banned from the forum. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lopburi3 Posted November 21, 2011 Share Posted November 21, 2011 Although you do not want to obtain PR most of the citizenship information will be found in postings there so I would not ignore it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AngryParent Posted November 21, 2011 Author Share Posted November 21, 2011 (edited) @lopburi3 Thank you for the information. If I may ask a bit more from you. 1. So, it is possible to get Thai citizenship, providing I imporve my Thai? 2. Is there any information regarding those posts that are outdated or there is some updated legal or practical matters? 3. I am sure I am not the only person who would like to get Thai citizenship (as I have a Thai family and work here) however, is this the only person that has tried it and ever got citizenship? 4. After all the normal matters that were stated as being the requirements - does it, at the end of the day really practically go to only those who are in the elite financial category? 5. Sorry, I originally refered to the post titled "Story of my Thai citizenship application" - that member was banned. And my reply above is base on thinking that was the sotry you were reffering to. Edited November 21, 2011 by AngryParent Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lopburi3 Posted November 21, 2011 Share Posted November 21, 2011 All I can say is read - perhaps the last few pages first as it is long. Special consideration is given those with family but it will depend on a number of factors and do not believe anyone can call the race from sidelines. And I do not have any personal knowledge beyond what is being posted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AngryParent Posted November 21, 2011 Author Share Posted November 21, 2011 All I can say is read - perhaps the last few pages first as it is long. Special consideration is given those with family but it will depend on a number of factors and do not believe anyone can call the race from sidelines. And I do not have any personal knowledge beyond what is being posted. Thank you for the frank answer. As far as I am aware it costs 5,000 Baht to apply for citizenship under ludditeman's link - worth a try? I heard from someone that one needs to apply to their local immigration office. I am not in BKK and in my local immigration office I got the feeling they had never heard of this nonPR route. What do I do? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ludditeman Posted November 21, 2011 Share Posted November 21, 2011 The number of places is limited each year. As with everything in Thailand, corruption and tea money rules the law. 500,000bht given to the right solicitor might make the process quicker, but you are not a rich man, so forget it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AngryParent Posted November 21, 2011 Author Share Posted November 21, 2011 The number of places is limited each year. As with everything in Thailand, corruption and tea money rules the law. 500,000bht given to the right solicitor might make the process quicker, but you are not a rich man, so forget it. I thought only Permanent Residence had limited numbers. I want citizenship. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tombkk Posted November 21, 2011 Share Posted November 21, 2011 I remember having heard that you have to score at least so many points in a scoring system. For example your education: If you have a PhD, you get more points than if you "only" have a college degree. Try to google for that. Being married to a Thai wife gives you an advantage, and a friend of mine, who never applied for PR, is (talking about) trying to apply for Thai citizenship this way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AngryParent Posted November 21, 2011 Author Share Posted November 21, 2011 I remember having heard that you have to score at least so many points in a scoring system. For example your education: If you have a PhD, you get more points than if you "only" have a college degree. Try to google for that. Being married to a Thai wife gives you an advantage, and a friend of mine, who never applied for PR, is (talking about) trying to apply for Thai citizenship this way. I have read that before too. The link is: /19731-thai-citizenship-requirements/ I cannot post links as I am a new member - just add thaivisa in front. It is cirucular. That post stated Permanant Residence is needed and the link by another esteemed member of this forum confirmed it (that was 2004). However, the link by ludditeman differs (which is of the NEW version that all can apply for citizenship). Surely there must be something new, if it only costs 5000 Baht and the requirements are less? Gee, PR costs around 100-200,000, a quota applies too, (at that price one would think all the rich applicants) could apply 40 times and inform us of 40 different situations? Sorry for the poor joke. But the point I am trying to make is that surely somebody must has recent knowledge of this matter, esp as it is not that expensive and many have been involved with those PR debates and applications? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mario2008 Posted November 21, 2011 Share Posted November 21, 2011 New is that people who are married to a Thai national can apply for Thai nationality without having to go for PR first. I believe for all others PR is still required. The requirements are not less, only for people that are married to a Thai national the requirements towards Thai language are less strict. But the requirements for PR and Thai nationality are not very different. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AngryParent Posted November 21, 2011 Author Share Posted November 21, 2011 (edited) New is that people who are married to a Thai national can apply for Thai nationality without having to go for PR first. I believe for all others PR is still required. The requirements are not less, only for people that are married to a Thai national the requirements towards Thai language are less strict. But the requirements for PR and Thai nationality are not very different. Thank you. OK: This is the Thai govt. position from website thailand dot prd dot go dot th/ view_around_thailand dot php?id=4455 Requirements for Obtaining a Permit The following are the requirements of obtaining a permit. Note that these rules are subject to frequent change and that a current list of the requirements may be found at: 1. Qualifcations The foreigner must have held a non-immigrant visa and have resided in Thailand for at least three consecutive years on the same non-immigrant visa at the time of application. The foreigner must qualify under one of the following five categories. Note that each of the five categories has different requirements regarding required documentation to be submitted and applicable application fees. i. Investment Category – the foreigner must bring in at least 10 million baht into Thailand to invest in a limited or public company, state-issued security, state enterprise's security or the stock market; or ii. Employment Category – for at least one year, the foreigner must be an executive offcer and a signatory of a business registered in Thailand with a capital of at least 10 million baht. The applicant must earn at least 50,000 baht per month for two consecutive years prior to submitting the application. Also, his work must be in an area of interest to the Thailand economy. Alternatively (still under the Employment Category), the foreigner must earn at least 80,000 baht per month for two years or flea tax return for an annual income of 100,000 baht or more for two consecutive years. He, also, must have held work a permit for at least three consecutive years and worked in the current company for at least one year; or iii. Humanity Category – the foreigner must be the spouse, parent or child of a permanent resident or a Thai citizen; or vi. Expert Category – the foreigner holds a Bachelor or a higher degree, and his current position requires him to work at least three consecutive years in Thailand; or v. Other circumstances (outside of the above) are considered on a case-by-case basis. In which case category iii is without requirments (as long as one is married etc). Category ii requires filed Thai tax returns of an annual income of 100,000+ which most/all govt. school teachers do get. The first part of this I read as 80,000 a month without filed tax returns in Thailand! Correct? Edited November 21, 2011 by AngryParent Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tombkk Posted November 21, 2011 Share Posted November 21, 2011 (edited) I remember having heard that you have to score at least so many points in a scoring system. For example your education: If you have a PhD, you get more points than if you "only" have a college degree. Try to google for that. Being married to a Thai wife gives you an advantage, and a friend of mine, who never applied for PR, is (talking about) trying to apply for Thai citizenship this way. I have read that before too. The link is: /19731-thai-citizenship-requirements/ I cannot post links as I am a new member - just add thaivisa in front. It is cirucular. That post stated Permanant Residence is needed and the link by another esteemed member of this forum confirmed it (that was 2004). However, the link by ludditeman differs (which is of the NEW version that all can apply for citizenship). Surely there must be something new, if it only costs 5000 Baht and the requirements are less? Gee, PR costs around 100-200,000, a quota applies too, (at that price one would think all the rich applicants) could apply 40 times and inform us of 40 different situations? Sorry for the poor joke. But the point I am trying to make is that surely somebody must has recent knowledge of this matter, esp as it is not that expensive and many have been involved with those PR debates and applications? I can post that link. ;-) They changed the law recently. If you are married to a Thai, you don't need PR any more. I suggest you visit immigrattion and special branch. They are said to be very friendly and helpful, and they will give you an updated list in English of the documents required. Edit: Do not pay any bribes. If it comes out later that you received Thai citizenship through fraudulent measures, it will be revokes. Very much like in other countries. Make sure you get an official receipt for everything you pay. Edited November 21, 2011 by tombkk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Companero1961 Posted November 21, 2011 Share Posted November 21, 2011 If you want to be Thai, you should understand the Thai soul. I would think. To speak the language, would be nice too, in this context. Both of that, you can not. How do you want there please be a Thai? We are not in Europe, where any idiot can be running up and do what he wants. There is one surefire way, to be Thai. You must be born here. And this the end of the banana. And they are right with that. New is that people who are married to a Thai national can apply for Thai nationality without having to go for PR first. I believe for all others PR is still required. The requirements are not less, only for people that are married to a Thai national the requirements towards Thai language are less strict. But the requirements for PR and Thai nationality are not very different. Thank you. OK: This is the Thai govt. position from website thailand dot prd dot go dot th/ view_around_thailand dot php?id=4455 Requirements for Obtaining a Permit The following are the requirements of obtaining a permit. Note that these rules are subject to frequent change and that a current list of the requirements may be found at: 1. Qualifcations The foreigner must have held a non-immigrant visa and have resided in Thailand for at least three consecutive years on the same non-immigrant visa at the time of application. The foreigner must qualify under one of the following five categories. Note that each of the five categories has different requirements regarding required documentation to be submitted and applicable application fees. i. Investment Category – the foreigner must bring in at least 10 million baht into Thailand to invest in a limited or public company, state-issued security, state enterprise's security or the stock market; or ii. Employment Category – for at least one year, the foreigner must be an executive offcer and a signatory of a business registered in Thailand with a capital of at least 10 million baht. The applicant must earn at least 50,000 baht per month for two consecutive years prior to submitting the application. Also, his work must be in an area of interest to the Thailand economy. Alternatively (still under the Employment Category), the foreigner must earn at least 80,000 baht per month for two years or flea tax return for an annual income of 100,000 baht or more for two consecutive years. He, also, must have held work a permit for at least three consecutive years and worked in the current company for at least one year; or iii. Humanity Category – the foreigner must be the spouse, parent or child of a permanent resident or a Thai citizen; or vi. Expert Category – the foreigner holds a Bachelor or a higher degree, and his current position requires him to work at least three consecutive years in Thailand; or v. Other circumstances (outside of the above) are considered on a case-by-case basis. In which case category iii is without requirments (as long as one is married etc). Category ii requires filed Thai tax returns of an annual income of 100,000+ which most/all govt. school teachers do get. The first part of this I read as 80,000 a month without filed tax returns in Thailand! Correct? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AngryParent Posted November 21, 2011 Author Share Posted November 21, 2011 Thank you tombkk! Where do I file the application? Where can I get the application? I do not live in bkk and my local immigration office (nice people) looked at me like I am an alien when I mentioned this nonPR route! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ludditeman Posted November 21, 2011 Share Posted November 21, 2011 Be sure to let us know how it goes. Under those rules I can give it a go too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tombkk Posted November 21, 2011 Share Posted November 21, 2011 Thank you tombkk! Where do I file the application? Where can I get the application? I do not live in bkk and my local immigration office (nice people) looked at me like I am an alien when I mentioned this nonPR route! Try special division, police HQ, Rama I Road, Bangkok. On the compounds of the police HQ, you will have to ask around, as I don't remember the name of the building. I am not aware that you can apply anywhere else, but I'd like to be corrected. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MacWalen Posted November 21, 2011 Share Posted November 21, 2011 The answer is yes, you can become a Thai citizen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AngryParent Posted November 21, 2011 Author Share Posted November 21, 2011 Be sure to let us know how it goes. Under those rules I can give it a go too. This is the point! I asked you for advice and now you are willing to give it a go too! I only posted the Thai govt. info, and you posted a link that is something similar. Is this a case of the blind leading the blind? Surely there must be somebody that has been through this? Or, are you telling me that there is nobody that has been here for at least 5 years, has not worked for a few years, has a Thai wife or son, can show 100,000+ tax returns etc? Those comma seperated clauses are independant! With all those lengthy PR debates where the capital upfront is significant, there were years of replies. When I ask about this mystical citizenship matter (where the rules are presumed to be lower), there is no current information or anybody that is here to tell the tale! Am I missing something? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FritsSikkink Posted November 21, 2011 Share Posted November 21, 2011 @lopburi3 Thank you for the information. If I may ask a bit more from you. 3. I am sure I am not the only person who would like to get Thai citizenship (as I have a Thai family and work here) however, is this the only person that has tried it and ever got citizenship? In 2004 48 applied and 10 got approved Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AngryParent Posted November 21, 2011 Author Share Posted November 21, 2011 (edited) @lopburi3 Thank you for the information. If I may ask a bit more from you. 3. I am sure I am not the only person who would like to get Thai citizenship (as I have a Thai family and work here) however, is this the only person that has tried it and ever got citizenship? In 2004 48 applied and 10 got approved Statistics. This is interesting. I read this before too. But I will comment here. Level 1: Only 48 foreigners in the world, of all the 100,000++++ (that have links to Thailand) applied? Level 2: What happened to statistics before and after 2004? Time warp? Level 3: ... digest level 1 and 2 first - with all respect. If I may burst a little bubble - there were almost 200,000 applications for citizenship to just one EU country in 2009. Add all the EU countries together and what is the total number of applications? Now, take a step back... are you telling me that Thailand got only 48? We are not talking about the score in a basketball game! Edited November 21, 2011 by AngryParent Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
champken Posted November 21, 2011 Share Posted November 21, 2011 I somehow cant quite understand why you would want to become a Thai citizen?... after all assuming you are a "farang" thus you will always be treated as such, then why give up your possible rights to decent health care, a pension and all the other benefits that we farang get from our home countries to become a not second but laughed at citizen of Thailand?...you maybe young, fit and in the money now, but that wont last forever, ide give it a bit more thought Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AngryParent Posted November 21, 2011 Author Share Posted November 21, 2011 I somehow cant quite understand why you would want to become a Thai citizen?... after all assuming you are a "farang" thus you will always be treated as such, then why give up your possible rights to decent health care, a pension and all the other benefits that we farang get from our home countries to become a not second but laughed at citizen of Thailand?...you maybe young, fit and in the money now, but that wont last forever, ide give it a bit more thought Why should I not give it a jolly good try? I have a wife and a son who are Thai and I owe it to them to secure their native ground for this family! Under my native law, I do not need to renounce my citizenship, and from XYZ, dual nationality is permitted. I do not see Thai citizenship as a step down. To answer your question - that is more philisophical - how I am treated by the worker on the road or not will not change my life (and Thai citizenship or not will not affect this). I think you might have got this the wrong way around - this is a matter of holistic family security and stability. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TerryLH Posted November 21, 2011 Share Posted November 21, 2011 "...are you telling me that Thailand got only 48?" I'm surprised it's so many. I'll guess that a good share of those are farang women married to Thai men. I'll also guess that that was the number of applicants who made it through the pre-screening. I think that weeds a lot of people out. Until recently one of the requirements for expat men, was to first become a permanent resident. About 100k if married to a Thai and about 200k if not. You can read about those requirements above in the pinned topics. There were several years that no applications were approved for PR. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ludditeman Posted November 21, 2011 Share Posted November 21, 2011 Be sure to let us know how it goes. Under those rules I can give it a go too. This is the point! I asked you for advice and now you are willing to give it a go too! I only posted the Thai govt. info, and you posted a link that is something similar. Is this a case of the blind leading the blind? Surely there must be somebody that has been through this? Or, are you telling me that there is nobody that has been here for at least 5 years, has not worked for a few years, has a Thai wife or son, can show 100,000+ tax returns etc? Those comma seperated clauses are independant! With all those lengthy PR debates where the capital upfront is significant, there were years of replies. When I ask about this mystical citizenship matter (where the rules are presumed to be lower), there is no current information or anybody that is here to tell the tale! Am I missing something? I wonder if many married foreigners don't bother to get the right Visa and keep it going for the required number of years. I was also convinced that you needed to be working and earning a certain amount, but apparently that is no longer the case. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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