Expert & Legal Advice For Marriage & Visa

[gdhm]

Hello everybody,

I made an enquiry for expert help and guidance from "http://www.helplinelaw.com" in respect of all aspects (pre-nuptial, translations, running around, documentation etc.) for my forthcoming marriage in Thailand to a Thai National and, also (and MORE importantly with our application for a "family" Visa for my future wife to live in Spain with me - which may not be easy). I need help as I know NOTHING about such matters.

I feel the Visa application may be problematic because (I will risk the wrath of some of the Forum and save any speculation time) our relationship has been fast, internet based and some would call an "Internet Bride" situation I suppose. This description sounds horribly sleazy to me (like a purchase) and certainly NOT what I or my Fiancee are all about or what my Fiancee and I believe our relationship to be, OR what we are seeking and wanting from our future marriage. We consider our relationship to be a genuine relationship based solely on love - BUT I accept everybody will have their own interpretations as to what mediums and time periods can constitute as a plausible genuinely loving relationship ready for marriage.

I was contacted by

Phillip W. Venne of

Website: www.trilaw-consultants.com

TRI LAW CONSULTANTS INTERNATIONAL LAW OFFICE

54 BB Building, Suite 1114, 11th Floor

Sukhumvit Soi 21 (Asoke) Rd.

Bangkok, Thailand 10110

and I have been very impressed with Mr Venne's information and pre-contract assitance and he has bothered to offer information and advice prior to any commitment on my part. The Firm's Website looks and reads impressively, but of course many do (it is difficult to "sort the wood from the trees")

I feel happy to commit with this firm. However, in view of the obvious vast knowledge of members on this Forum (from what I have read) it makes sense to ask if anybody knows of, or has had any dealing with this Firm, and if so what are their opinions are and was satisfactory outcomes achieved.

Additionally, if any member has input that you feel may be helpful to us when seeking Expert assistance for our marriage and Visa legal requirements we will much appreciate the advice

Many thanks and regards

Dave

[the scouser]

Dave,

What nationality are you? You say that you are applying for a "family visa" to live in Spain. Do you mean a family permit? If that's the case, then you must be of a different EEA nationality, exercising treaty rights (or intending to do so) in Spain.

If my assumption is correct, the process shouldn't be too onerous. Your wife only has to show that you are married as claimed, that you can support her without recourse to the Spanish state, and that you'll either be travelling together, or you'll already be in Spain at the time of her arrival. Providing the foregoing is satisfied, such an application can only be refused in very limited circumstances, for example, public policy or serious criminal behaviour.

Cheers,

Scouse.

[GuestHouse]

I'll second what Scouse has said, my wife and I are exercising our treaty rights so that my wife can live with me here in Italy. The process of obtaining a family permit is extremely streight forward and FREE.

[gdhm]

Hi Scouser and GuestHouse,

Many thanks for this, and the very best of wishes for you and your wife in Italy GuestHouse

I think the Visa is called a "Family Repatriation" Visa which can be used, amongst other things, for a Non EU spouse to join a n EU spouse in Spain

Yes I am English (UK citizen) now permanently living in Spain for nearly 4 years and with a Residence Permit (so I am totally legal here). I am 53 and retired (voluntary) but not well off. I am living off a 30% loan against my fully paid for home until 20 months time when I get my early pension (and lump sum which will pay off the loan) The monthly pension will be comfortable for us both, especially as we will have no mortgage to pay off (but certainly not a fortune).

Both will support any wife and myself here without state intervention (even if she is unable to work for a while - which could be the case as she knows no Spanish and English is very limited - we are rectifying the English situation (there are 1000s and 1000s of English and Irish in this part of the Costa Blanca (incredibly there are more foreigners on some of the town hall registers here than there are Spanish). I have allowed for my wife to e not to work at all for at least a year without any work.

The treaty you refer to is, I suspect the EU human rights treaty "which permits an non EU spouse to live with their EU spouse in a EU country they are legally resident in Provided the marriage is genuine and that they are living together as man and wife".

What you think is what I think, BUT of course this depends on the Spanish accepting our mostly internet relationship , poor language compatibility, and speed of relationship IS genuine.

We know it is but we need Spain to accept that fact.

I find with Spanish rules that they are solid, but the interpretation not as solid as the UK so you are never sure if you will sail through or get bogged down.

Certainly they have no reason to believe my future wife will be a burden to the State system and she has no criminal police record (indeed if she is unhappy here and cannot settle down then I will need to consider Thailand as a possible home (subject of course that Thailand is happy to grant me a Visa and permit me to live there).

Thank you for your input and positive opinions. I must admit the Visa is worrying me because the thought of us being married and apart is horrible and goes totally against what we both believe being married and being "as one" is all about.

My Fiancee has said she will wait in Thailand, if she has too until I want her to join me and she has her Visa. She is so sweet but I have told her if we love each other enough to marry then OF COURSE I want her to be with me immediately.

I know it is off subject but I have to ask "Do decent traditional Thai women regard their husbands as the boss and his needs paramount (or is this just my Fiancée’s nature)?

Certainly my Fiancee is submissive to my interests and I have had to tell her REPEATEDLY that I will try and accommodate and understand Thai culture BUT if one piece of Thai culture is that the man is dominant, then this will NOT happen in our relationship and marriage, because I do not want control or all my own way. I want a totally equal relationship (as far as what we each want, what makes us BOTH Happy and pecking order - I will settle for nothing else and I could not be happy if my wife was always submitting to what she thinks I want).

Regards and thanks

Dave

[the scouser]

this depends on the Spanish accepting our mostly internet relationship , poor language compatibility, and speed of relationship IS genuine.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Dave,

In theory, these aspects that you've mentioned are irrelevant to the consideration of your wife's application. EU law stipulates that if you are legitimately married then it doesn't matter in which circumstances you met your spouse. In order to challenge the substance of the marriage, they need a very good reason. Having said that, it does depend how the Spanish actually interpret the law.

Scouse.

[Rich05]

Hello eveyone

I'm glad i found this website. I've been looking for something like this for a while.

I've had a Thai girlfriend for 14 months now, she used to work in a bar but I've been sponsoring her for the last seven months, and she now works in a Chinese restaurant in Bangkok. I'm English, but I've been living and working full-time in Portugal (I have a Portuguese bank account, fiscal number) for one month. I work in Media. I have all the proof of our relationship, my payslips, bank slips, proof of my address in Portugal, and I've prepared a cover letter detailing all this, and that she'd stay with me for the period of the visit.

I've been to Thailand 4 times and we've been to koh Samui together a couple of times. She's also travelled to Hong Kong once before.

I'm going back in December to apply for a 2 week holiday visa for her to visit me in Portugal.

Can anyone offer me any advice or information? I really want to make sure this is a successful visa application, as I know how a 'denied' stamp on her passport may affect our future.

Thanks, great to know so many people in the same boat btw

R

[the scouser]

Hi Rich,

What I am about to write comes with the disclaimer that I know nothing of Portuguese immigration law, and I am working on the assumption that it is broadly similar to that of the UK.

I think you've got the supporting documentation pretty much sewn up. I would, however, also include a letter from your girlfriend's employer which confirms her employment status and states the date she is expected to resume work.

Although you are British, exercising a treaty right in Portugal, your girlfriend will not benefit from the less stringent requirements of European law, as, being unmarried, she will not be considered to be your dependant.

Cheers,

Scouse.

[Rich05]

Thanks for the swift reply Scouse.

I forgot to mention she's only had the job in this restaurant for three months. You think this will effect our application even if I have this kind of letter from her employer?

I've been trying to contact the Portuguse embassy in Bangkok with no luck. I'd really like them to give me a run-down on all the necessary info I need to provide for a successful application.

When she gets back to Bangkok after her holiday here (if her application is successful) she's got a job lined up working for her Aunt's company in the airport. I was not going to mention this as I thought it would confuse or complicate matters, but now I'm thinking I should get a letter from her Aunts company stating they expect her to start working on X date.

[the scouser]

Hi Rich,

It doesn't harm to get a letter from the aunt's company if, indeed, that is for whom your girlfriend will be working upon her return.

Also bear in mind that for some European countries it is a requirement of the visa to have medical insurance, so you'll need to check that, too.

Scouse.

[Rich05]

Yes she does need medical insurance.

Any idea what I have to do to cover this?

[the scouser]

This doesn't come with any recommendation, but should give you an idea.

BUPA Thailand.

Scouse.

[Rich05]

Wow that seems awfully expensive for travel insurance. I'll get my girl to look into it on her day off.

Thanks a lot Scouse you're being really helpful, I appreciate it.

I'll stay on the forum and keep you updated on things. Have you had any direct experience yourself reg. these issues?

[the scouser]

I've a fair amount of experience in both granting and refusing visas, as I've worked as a visa officer at the British embassies in Kuwait and the Philippines.

All the best,

Scouse.

[GU22]

In theory, these aspects that you've mentioned are irrelevant to the consideration of your wife's application. EU law stipulates that if you are legitimately married then it doesn't matter in which circumstances you met your spouse. In order to challenge the substance of the marriage, they need a very good reason. Having said that, it does depend how the Spanish actually interpret the law.

Applications for EEA Family permits do get refused. Over on Thailand-UK there is a Danish guy ranting and raving because his wife has just been refused one by the British embassy.

Mind you, he married her after only knowing her for 2 weeks and she lied in the interview and the ECO caught her out!

EEA family permits can be refused if the embassy believe that the marriage is one of convenience, that is one undertaken purely as a means of obtaining the permit. But they do have to be sure of their ground before refusing.

[Rich05]

I just have a few more questions:

Does travel insurance (which is included with the airticket from the travel agency) cover this Medical Insurance? Or do I need to get this seperately?

Do I need to buy the airtickets before we apply for the visa as proof of the dates she will visit me?

And does she need a certain amount of money in her bank beofre they grant her a visa?

You've got a fasinating job by the way Scouse.

Edited November 21, 2005 by Rich05

[the scouser]

Hi Rich,

I'm no longer a visa officer, but it was an interesting job.

Don't purchase tickets before the visa application as if it's refused you may not get all of your money back. Having a healthy bank account may help your girlfriend's application, but don't deliberately pad it. The visa officer could then accuse you of doing so purely for the purposes of getting a visa. The travel insurance may be sufficient, but you'll have to read the policy and see if it contains medical cover, too.

Cheers,

Scouse.

[Rich05]

Here's one I didn't think of...I'm British working in Portugal. Will it work against me at the embassy that I don't speak Portuguese? And should I get my cover letters translated into Portuguese?

[the scouser]

Hi Rich,

Your not speaking Portuguese shouldn't adversely effect the application and the staff at the embassy in Bangkok should speak English, but if you were to have the letter translated in to Portuguese, it would show that you've put some thought in to the process.

Scouse.

[GU22]

the staff at the embassy in Bangkok should speak English

Despite being a patriotic Englishman, I find the attitude that foreigners should all speak English to be very irritating.

Yes, I know that diplomatic staff should be able to communicate with the public and that English is a common language for most of the world, but it does annoy me when native English speakers can't even make a small effort !

As a matter of courtesy I would suggest that you translate the sponsors letter, and everything else, into Portuguese.

[the scouser]

I didn't mean that the Portuguese staff should be compelled to speak English, rather that, as likely as not, they do.

As the offspring of two foreign language teachers, I, too, believe some native English speakers could perhaps make more of an effort.

Scouse.

[Rich05]

I figured it was a polite and sensible thing to do.

One thing I found out today was that if you are a British person sponsoring a Thai girl to come to Europe you need all your documents for the application checked and stamped by a lawyer from the local Public Notary Office.

Also, about the timing of the application...does anyone know if it's possible to apply in December for a visit visa in February, or does it need to be one month before the intended visit?

And by the way GU22 I agree with you totally about the attitude towards the English language, I travel a lot with work and I always try to speak the language of the country I'm in. Although it's very convenient sometimes that English is a common language.

[the scouser]

Rich,

When she applies largely depends upon whether you're girlfriend has to be interviewed and, if so, whether there is a waiting list. The best people to ask are the embassy staff.

Scouse.

[Rich05]

Thanks Scouse,

So do you think I or my girl should ring the embassy to make an appointment, or can we just go along early one morning? It's a very quiet embassy.

Also they wouldn't give us a form last time I went there, apparently the application form will be filled out when we actually apply.

[the scouser]

Hi Rich,

Send the embassy an e-mail - [email protected] - and ask whether an appointment is necessary and how long in advance the application should be made.

Scouse.

[Rich05]

I sent them an email over a month ago and they never replied.

I just tried again, lets wait and see.