Special Report: Struggling To End Phuket's Transgender Stigma

[farangnoi]

Question to the posters....I'm straight, and i fall in love with a katoey, Am I Gay, straight or Bisexcual?

This Question becomes from one of my sons.... not gay, who is really struggeling with this, because it happened to him last summer.

[softgeorge]

Question to the posters....I'm straight, and i fall in love with a katoey, Am I Gay, straight or Bisexcual?

This Question becomes from one of my sons.... not gay, who is really struggeling with this, because it happened to him last summer.

Well as a katoey is actually a man in womens clothing I would say you would be more on the gay side. Definately not straight as straight men don't go for ladyBOYS.

[lukejames]

Closet gays do feel the need to declare they are straight at every possible opportunity though

[softgeorge]

Closet gays do feel the need to declare they are straight at every possible opportunity though

that's your choice and no one is critcising you.

[cowslip]

Closet gays do feel the need to declare they are straight at every possible opportunity though

Definitely - when you meet a rampant homophobe it's fairly obvious that they're sitting on a mountain of personal sexual issues....

what a way to go through life!

[cowslip]

Question to the posters....I'm straight, and i fall in love with a katoey, Am I Gay, straight or Bisexcual?

This Question becomes from one of my sons.... not gay, who is really struggeling with this, because it happened to him last summer.

Perhaps it merely shows how inappropriate such categories are?

[chooka]

Closet gays do feel the need to declare they are straight at every possible opportunity though

Definitely - when you meet a rampant homophobe it's fairly obvious that they're sitting on a mountain of personal sexual issues....

what a way to go through life!

Use of homophobia, homophobic, and homophobe has been criticized as "Pejorative" against those with differing value positions.

Pejoratives: - terms of abuse, derogatory terms.

Personally I do not care what a persons sexual orientation is. I am as straight as they come, I have gay and lesbian friends and we socialise frequently. If someone was to brand me a homophobe I would find it extremely offensive and derogatory.

I think the knife cuts both ways here. If you are straight don't use derogative words towards people of the gay community and if you are gay vice versa. The use of the word homophobe is extreemly offensive and I do believe using offensive language is against Thaivisa rules. Let's play nice people and address others as you would wish to be addressed.

[cowslip]

Closet gays do feel the need to declare they are straight at every possible opportunity though

Definitely - when you meet a rampant homophobe it's fairly obvious that they're sitting on a mountain of personal sexual issues....

what a way to go through life!

Use of homophobia, homophobic, and homophobe has been criticized as "Pejorative" against those with differing value positions.

Pejoratives: - terms of abuse, derogatory terms.

Personally I do not care what a persons sexual orientation is. I am as straight as they come, I have gay and lesbian friends and we socialise frequently. If someone was to brand me a homophobe I would find it extremely offensive and derogatory.

I think the knife cuts both ways here. If you are straight don't use derogative words towards people of the gay community and if you are gay vice versa. The use of the word homophobe is extreemly offensive and I do believe using offensive language is against Thaivisa rules. Let's play nice people and address others as you would wish to be addressed.

sorry where has it been described as "Pejorative"? - you are doing too much google and not enough thought.

neither is air necessarily a synonym for "derogatory"

and it certainly is a condition that one would;t want but so is overweight and a cold but they are not derogatory - can you cite where they ae described as derogatory - apart from someone who is homophobic - because they are bound by their conditioning to protest...

If I was to use a racial slur it would only be offensive if you were hat particular "race" so one must assume that you are accepting the mantle of homophobia?

Edited November 27, 2011 by cowslip

[softgeorge]

Closet gays do feel the need to declare they are straight at every possible opportunity though

Definitely - when you meet a rampant homophobe it's fairly obvious that they're sitting on a mountain of personal sexual issues....

what a way to go through life!

Use of homophobia, homophobic, and homophobe has been criticized as "Pejorative" against those with differing value positions.

Pejoratives: - terms of abuse, derogatory terms.

Personally I do not care what a persons sexual orientation is. I am as straight as they come, I have gay and lesbian friends and we socialise frequently. If someone was to brand me a homophobe I would find it extremely offensive and derogatory.

I think the knife cuts both ways here. If you are straight don't use derogative words towards people of the gay community and if you are gay vice versa. The use of the word homophobe is extreemly offensive and I do believe using offensive language is against Thaivisa rules. Let's play nice people and address others as you would wish to be addressed.

sorry where has it been described as "Pejorative"? - you are doing too much google and not enough thought.

neither is air necessarily a synonym for "derogatory"

and it certainly is a condition that one would;t want but so is overweight and a cold but they are not derogatory - can you cite where they ae described as derogatory - apart from someone who is homophobic - because they are bound by their conditioning to protest...

If I was to use a racial slur it would only be offensive if you were hat particular "race" so one must assume that you are accepting the mantle of homophobia?

I have a question for you and please do not take it offensively as it is purely an honest question.

In your own opinion what makes a person NOT homophobic?

I have seen a number of posters on here have shown thier support for the gay community and ladyboys and many seem to have gay friends but do not indulge in the activities of the gay community. You still seem to label them as homophobic and closet gays, why is that? Is not derogatory and offensive to label someone something that they are not?

[cowslip]

someone who can have normal relationships with anyone regardless of their sexual orientation - and doesn't impose prejudices, special restrictions or expectations on people because they homosexual.

"but do not indulge in the activities of the gay community." - is a case in point.

Why does it matter to you so much whether or not someone is gay?

tell me please what you mean by that.

"I have seen a number of posters on here have shown thier support for the gay community and ladyboys and many seem to have gay friends but do not indulge in the activities of the gay community. You still seem to label them as homophobic and closet gays, "

can you give an example of this too please

Edited November 28, 2011 by cowslip

[softgeorge]

someone who can have normal relationships with anyone regardless of their sexual orientation - and doesn't impose prejudices, special restrictions or expectations on people because they homosexual.

"but do not indulge in the activities of the gay community." - is a case in point.

Why does it matter to you so much whether or not someone is gay?

tell me please what you mean by that.

"I have seen a number of posters on here have shown thier support for the gay community and ladyboys and many seem to have gay friends but do not indulge in the activities of the gay community. You still seem to label them as homophobic and closet gays, "

can you give an example of this too please

What I mean by it doesn't matter to me if someone is gay is, My long term and best mate who was also my best man at my wedding is gay. We go to the footy together, enjoy a beer and most things that everyday people enjoy. I am also friends with his partner both of whom you would not know were gay on appearances just a couple of ordinary knock about blokes. I never feel intimidated or uneasy around them or thier gay friends, thier sexuality never even enters my mind. Some people like seafood or are strict vegetarians, I don't like seafood but I do not hold that against those that do, same goes for people who are gay. Yes I am hetro and I judge everyone as I find them be they gay or straight no difference to me.

What I mean by I do not indulge in the activities of the gay community is that I am hetro sexual and my sexual desires lay with female companionship. Again if my mate and his partner have thier ways and I have mine. I say good on them and enjoy thier lives as I will enjoy mine. We follow different football teams and that is the only difference in our lives. To be branded homophobic or a closet gay simply because I do not have the desire to enjoy the pleasures of the male sex is insulting and ridiculous. I am not into things like bondage either but does that make me a lesser person.

[Wavefloater]

I Don't have anything against them, but I must admit that they do creep me out a little. I guess it's my old-fashioned ways. Fortunately, they always seem obviously masculine, so avoiding them is easy enough. I mostly feel pity for them because of their situation and not fitting the gender roles of traditional society.

[lukejames]

I have lots of friends that are black I'm not racist although I don't indulge in the activities of the black community. I'm definitely not racist my best man was Jamaican and my cleaning lady is Pakistani. I have nothing against 'them' I just have to tell you as many times as I can I am not one of 'them', I am definitely not one of 'them'. No African or Asian blood in me honest.

Oh and did I mention I don't indulge in the activities of the black community, I'm not racist and I have NO African ancestry. Are we all clear on that. Ok definitely not one of 'them'

[softgeorge]

I have lots of friends that are black I'm not racist although I don't indulge in the activities of the black community. I'm definitely not racist my best man was Jamaican and my cleaning lady is Pakistani. I have nothing against 'them' I just have to tell you as many times as I can I am not one of 'them', I am definitely not one of 'them'. No African or Asian blood in me honest.

Oh and did I mention I don't indulge in the activities of the black community, I'm not racist and I have NO African ancestry. Are we all clear on that. Ok definitely not one of 'them'

Ok you people win, I am homophobic and I despise all those that indulge in such activities. Thank you for telling me how I thought of people within myself. I will inform my best mate that I have been shown the errors of my ways and can no longer associate with people like him because I am homophobic.

[lukejames]

"You' people "such activities' the language that you are using is self evident.

Of course you are not homophobic, after all as you have kindly told us, your best mate is gay. But as you have also bravely informed us, you yourself do not indulge in the 'activities' of they gay community, you have nothing against 'them' and you are absolutely 100% solid gold straight and don't find katoeys attractive in the slightest.

I believe you because you have been so fervent in your honesty.

Only someone who was not homophobic and didn't find katoeys attractive in the slightest would feel the need to declare that in a thread about fighting prejudice when no one actually asked you about your sexuality.

I believe you and I never called you homophobic! I admire your willingness to share details about your sexuality even when no one asked. Pretty brave of you indeed. Keep fighting the good fight. :jap: .

By the way, did I mention I'm not racist, some of my best friends are black

Edited November 28, 2011 by lukejames

[cowslip]

I Don't have anything against them, but I must admit that they do creep me out a little. I guess it's my old-fashioned ways. Fortunately, they always seem obviously masculine, so avoiding them is easy enough. I mostly feel pity for them because of their situation and not fitting the gender roles of traditional society.

"I Don't have anything against them, but ......."

some people just don't seem to get the message..........

[cowslip]

"I guess it's my old-fashioned ways." - that' not what I'd call it.........

[cowslip]

someone who can have normal relationships with anyone regardless of their sexual orientation - and doesn't impose prejudices, special restrictions or expectations on people because they homosexual.

"but do not indulge in the activities of the gay community." - is a case in point.

Why does it matter to you so much whether or not someone is gay?

tell me please what you mean by that.

"I have seen a number of posters on here have shown thier support for the gay community and ladyboys and many seem to have gay friends but do not indulge in the activities of the gay community. You still seem to label them as homophobic and closet gays, "

can you give an example of this too please

What I mean by it doesn't matter to me if someone is gay is, My long term and best mate who was also my best man at my wedding is gay. We go to the footy together, enjoy a beer and most things that everyday people enjoy. I am also friends with his partner both of whom you would not know were gay on appearances just a couple of ordinary knock about blokes. I never feel intimidated or uneasy around them or thier gay friends, thier sexuality never even enters my mind. Some people like seafood or are strict vegetarians, I don't like seafood but I do not hold that against those that do, same goes for people who are gay. Yes I am hetro and I judge everyone as I find them be they gay or straight no difference to me.

What I mean by I do not indulge in the activities of the gay community is that I am hetro sexual and my sexual desires lay with female companionship. Again if my mate and his partner have thier ways and I have mine. I say good on them and enjoy thier lives as I will enjoy mine. We follow different football teams and that is the only difference in our lives. To be branded homophobic or a closet gay simply because I do not have the desire to enjoy the pleasures of the male sex is insulting and ridiculous. I am not into things like bondage either but does that make me a lesser person.

...but you can't frget that he is gay fr one minute, can you?

"that indulge in such activities" - give the guy a spade.....

[cowslip]

I have lots of friends that are black I'm not racist although I don't indulge in the activities of the black community. I'm definitely not racist my best man was Jamaican and my cleaning lady is Pakistani. I have nothing against 'them' I just have to tell you as many times as I can I am not one of 'them', I am definitely not one of 'them'. No African or Asian blood in me honest.

Oh and did I mention I don't indulge in the activities of the black community, I'm not racist and I have NO African ancestry. Are we all clear on that. Ok definitely not one of 'them'

Ok you people win, I am homophobic and I despise all those that indulge in such activities. Thank you for telling me how I thought of people within myself. I will inform my best mate that I have been shown the errors of my ways and can no longer associate with people like him because I am homophobic.

rather than desert your friends, wouldn't it be better to confront and overcome your homophobia.

It's a bit like alcoholism - you can't do anything about it until you acknowledge that you are one.

[lukejames]

Softgeorge, apologies for being so sarcastic. :jap:

Let me explain properly.

The point is it is possible to have gay friends and be homophobic.

If I have gay friends but think them kissing in public, holding hands or talking about sex are a no no then I am still homophobic.

If I am cool around straight acting masculine gay men who like watching football and keep their sexuality private but become an aggressive twerp who needs to assert my heterosexual credentials when I'm around overtly gay men flaunting their sexuality or men who shave their legs and use the tricks of femininity to become pleasing to the eye then despite my gay friends I am still suffering from homophobia.

I know plenty of 'straight' guys who have gay friends but the point is their gay friends are for all intents and purposes unchallenging to their sexuality being typically masculine. These same guys become uniquely juvenile or cold and hostile around camp guys or katoeys.

In other words the more feminine the man the less acceptable he becomes, katoeys being at the lowest end of respectability.

And this applies to most 'straight' men, we are raised to protect our manhood and sexual identities from and accusations of being gay or less than manly and katoeys are a direct challenge to straight male sexuality. Most straight guys are homophobic with a small, h.

They are good people who have gay friends and acquaintances and would never dream of gay bashing or anything like that but they are in their heart of hearts deeply uncomfortable about the "activities" of the "gay community" and feel the need to distance themselves from "them" whenever there is a possibility that they could be either mistaken for being one of "them" or actually find themselves attracted to one of "them" then the hackles go up and the smiles fade.

:jap: